Rethinking the school run

Richard Logue

I'm old enough to remember a time when I and the vast majority of school children my age walked or cycled to school. Others would have taken a school bus, particularly in rural areas.

The school run traffic levels are now at the point where we should be thinking of viable alternatives. How can we encourage this generation of kids to take themselves to school or is it us parents who need to re-educated?

L1011

Two things need to be done

1: The ridiculous weight of schoolbags these days needs to be sorted first, as its often actually not safe to carry all the required equipment. Even towards the end of my school days, it was getting ridiculous and when added to the need to carry sports kit and drawing boards for engineering, etc, I drove (myself, so only 2 rather than 4 journeys at least) most days, and from what I've seen they only have more, larger books now. Main bag weighed over 10kg on its own and one point :eek:

2: Parents need to stop giving in to whines about the walk, once its known to be safe from a weight and traffic perspective. In most cases it is safe from a traffic perspective already.

bk

I still see many kids (usually older) walking to and from school (I live just off a street with three major schools), however you are correct the whole school thing has gotten out of hand and I believe will have a negative effect in the long run on the health of our children.

I'm not sure much can be done about this. Educating parents might help a little.

One idea I've seen used in the US, is walking groups, an adult (parent or teacher) who walks to the school and picks up kids on the route to the school. Reduces concerns about abductions, etc.

Another idea, is have schools start earlier, e.g. 8am, so at least the school run doesn't interfere with rush hour. Would allow for better use of public transport too.

bk

Good point about the weight of bags.

In this day and age of iPads and ereaders, there should be no need for so many heavy books.

Also schools should offer more storage space for gym equipment, etc.

However as a hiker, I will say 10kg is not a problem if you use the right type of bag. I often hike 30km with a 10kg bag, no problem. But then that is a proper hiking bag with a frame, padded waist straps, etc. The sorry excuses for back breaking school bags I normally see being used should really be banned.

Conway635

The problem with the school run is that not only is it contributing to overall traffic, but to gross congestion and blockages around the schools themselves. School run parents seem to believe that normal traffic and parking rules do not apply to people with children and park in cycle lanes and on pavements, thus making it more dangerous for those who HAVE chosen to walk or cycle to school.

I can accept that car transport in rural areas is necessary, but cities such as Dublin and Cork have enough of a bus network that there should be no need for this.

I spent some time in Berlin earlier this month, including traveling in suburbs and fringe villages, and one thing that really stood out for me was how many unaccompanied YOUNG children seemed to be happily and safely using buses and trains. I'm not good at judging the age of children, but it seemed to me that there were many under 10 using transit on their own, and the atmosphere seemed to be safe for them to do so. Sadly I feel that would not work over here due to the general level of antisocial behaviour tolerated on our networks.

C635

Victor

bk wrote: »

One idea I've seen used in the US, is walking groups, an adult (parent or teacher) who walks to the school and picks up kids on the route to the school. Reduces concerns about abductions, etc.

The biggest safety risk to school children is other school children.

bk

In fairness in Cork, I use to always use the bus (BE city) going to school and the drivers were always very nice and kept an eye out for us.

L1011

bk wrote: »

However as a hiker, I will say 10kg is not a problem if you use the right type of bag. I often hike 30km with a 10kg bag, no problem. But then that is a proper hiking bag with a frame, padded waist straps, etc. The sorry excuses for back breaking school bags I normally see being used should really be banned.

We were specifically disallowed from having 'large' schoolbags. Even my skateboarding one got queried at times. But then again the principal was an authoritarian FGer...

devnull

The trouble is though a lot of students are incredibly lazy and don't want to walk to school, for example round by where I live the school is about 5 minutes walk from here, but all of the kids around here get driven to the school that I can see with my own eyes about 2 minutes after leaving the house in a pretty quiet area.

The parents however drive them to school every morning and there will be upwards of around 40 cars all queuing to get to the school gates in long tailbacks, despite the fact the vast majority of those cars are coming from houses in no more than 10 minutes walking distance from the school at the very most.

The parents then complain that there is no room there to park and their child arrives at school late since it took them that long to get to school because of the traffic from other parents and therefore the local authorities should provide more car parking space, which is a complete red herring.

When I was a kid I lived about 20-25 minutes away from school and walked it every day and evening and never complained once and the vast majority of people in my school were very much the same. I wouldn't dream of asking my parents for a lift, they'd tell me not to be so lazy.

But it seems the kids of today expect to be ferried around all of the time by mum and dad.

corktina

what is better use of the road,? a car with driver (who may anyway be on way to work) with maybe 4 children in it or a single occupancy car with a Commuter?

I would bet that in a lot of the second instance, there will be parallel public transport whereas few school journeys are on radial routes with buses/trains.,

Lets get them all on public transport or bikes.

Victor

devnull wrote: »

But it seems the kids of today expect to be ferried around all of the time by mum and dad.

I think that is unfair to the children - the problem is with the parents. If the children had to walk and didn't know any different, then they would walk.

markpb

Maybe this will seem harsh but I think that if the Gardai clamped down heavily on the stupid, illegal and reckless driving and parking that goes on outside schools, a lot of parents would suddenly think it would be easier if their child walked or took public transport to school. If they could no longer drive right up to the gate, park completely across the footpath and block the traffic, it might not be something they're keen on.

bk

MYOB wrote: »

We were specifically disallowed from having 'large' schoolbags. Even my skateboarding one got queried at times. But then again the principal was an authoritarian FGer...

Well that is just crazy, specially if they are specially designed bags to help your bag. I'd rage at any principal who forced my child to carry an inadequate.

However having said that, hiking bags don't have to be large, you can get day hiking bags, with many of the normal hiking features (frame, waist straps, etc.) but in a standard and sometimes even quiet streamlined size.

devnull

markpb wrote: »

Maybe this will seem harsh but I think that if the Gardai clamped down heavily on the stupid, illegal and reckless driving and parking that goes on outside schools, a lot of parents would suddenly think it would be easier if their child walked or took public transport to school. If they could no longer drive right up to the gate, park completely across the footpath and block the traffic, it might not be something they're keen on.

I know a couple of parents who will not allow their children to walk to school because of this kind of parking, so that adds more cars to the problem, rather than actually solving it, which is too many cars in the first place.

I also know that I can walk to the school in about half the time my neighbors are driving their kids to the school. But they still drive them anyway.

taxus_baccata

Green schools travel are doing a lot on this. Posting from tablet so find it difficult to post links but there are reports available on progress, challenges etc.

BenShermin

I've heard of some schools making it mandatory for students to wear helmets to and from school if they're cycling. Schools are actually making cycling look like a dangerous activity by making such safety equipment a requirement. This in turn won't help change the parents attitude who will think that their little Johnny will be safer in the SUV than on a bicycle to school.

back in the good aul days Somedays I cycled to secondary school, on lazy days I took the bus. One thing is for sure, none of the students would have cycled if they had to have worn helmets. Being a working class school, helmets were simply uncool.

Joshycat

Typical, its kids who are driven to school being told to walk or cycle or use public transport.Although nothing is ever said about adults who could easily walk or cycle to work but instead drive or the ones who normally have a bus or train which would drop them right outside work and yet they still drive to work....

Con Logue

Joshycat wrote: »

Typical, its kids who are driven to school being told to walk or cycle or use public transport.Although nothing is ever said about adults who could easily walk or cycle to work but instead drive or the ones who normally have a bus or train which would drop them right outside work and yet they still drive to work....

Perhaps if kids were still able to walk to school and have unstructured time to themselves then they would grow up quicker and be more self reliant. Just a thought.

galwaycyclist

I recently got attacked on a different thread for suggesting 5km as a ballpark figure for a workable cycling distance. It's about a 20-25 minute cycle.

But to stick with that theme. Census 2006 provided figures for distance from school for secondary students around the country. Here is a league table for towns, listed by the percentage of students living within 5km of school.

• Roscommon - 80.46%
• Wexford - 76.25%
• Dunboyne - 75.75%
• Maynooth - 75.31%
• Birr - 73.80%
• Gorey - 73.41%
• Bandon - 72.45%
• Tipperary - 72.43%
• Mallow - 72.18%
• Monaghan - 71.78%
• Ashbourne - 71.43%
• Portmarnock - 70.99%
• Thurles - 70.73%
• Dungarvan - 70.71%
• Edenderry - 70.68%
• Shannon - 70.64%
• Tuam - 70.53%
• Ennis - 70.14%
• Castlebar - 69.69%
• Newcastle West - 69.40%
• Ceannanus Mór - 69.36%
• Tramore - 69.30%
• Fermoy - 69.19%
• Kilkenny - 69.05%
• Carlow - 68.56%
• Buncrana - 67.97%
• Nenagh - 67.73%
• Enniscorthy - 67.35%
• Naas - 66.98%
• Wicklow - 66.94%
• Sligo - 66.27%
• Midleton - 66.25%
• Youghal - 66.23%
• Droichead Nua - 66.17%
• Arklow - 66.08%
• Leixlip - 66.07%
• Ballina - 65.84%
• Carrick-on-Suir - 65.44%
• Trim - 65.35%
• Athy - 65.07%
• Tralee - 64.76%
• Clonmel - 64.68%
• Westport - 63.03%
• Waterford City - 62.93%
• Limerick City - 62.43%
• Celbridge - 61.75%
• Tullamore - 60.78%
• Letterkenny - 60.56%
• Cobh - 60.27%
• Cavan - 60.09%
• Navan (An Uaimh) - 59.85%
• New Ross - 59.68%
• Mullingar - 59.64%
• Bray - 58.73%
• Drogheda - 58.13%
• Carrigaline - 56.47%
• Galway City - 56.30%
• Athlone - 56.29%
• Dundalk - 55.71%
• Portarlington - 54.83%
• Killarney - 54.76%
• Cork City - 54.76%
• Skerries - 54.51%
• Longford - 53.86%
• Greater Dublin Area - 52.91%
• Swords - 52.67%
• Ballinasloe - 51.51%
• Balbriggan - 51.37%
• Kildare - 49.63%
• Malahide - 48.75%
• Passage West - 45.30%
• Rush - 42.39%
• Portlaoighise - 40.84%
• Greystones - 23.55%
• Ratoath - 13.04%
• Laytown-Bettystown-Mornington - 6.26%
• Lusk - 5.47%
• Donabate - 4.00%

Source: Table 44. Students, males and females aged between 13 and 18 years usually resident in the State and present in their usual residence on Census Night, distinguishing towns of 5,000 population and over, classified by distance travelled to school or college, 2006

L1011

Provision of secure-ish, covered* cycle parking facilities should be expedited towards the top of that list post haste.

Ironically enough my primary school - built in 1943 - had covered cycle parking because it was extremely common for primary school boys from the surrounding hinterland (the town was tiny then) to cycle in, but my secondary school - built in 1971 and extended 4 times between then and when I left, in a very large town - had nothing at all built at any of its construction times. Times changed a LOT.

*this was a major disincentive to cycling, which I did until it became impractical due to the amount of crap to carry. OK to do the ~8min cycle in the rain, but a hell of a lot nastier to come out and get your arse soaked before said cycle.

BenShermin

MYOB wrote: »

OK to do the ~8min cycle in the rain, but a hell of a lot nastier to come out and get your arse soaked before said cycle.

My life would be hell without this piece of kit http://www.brooksengland.com/catalogue-and-shop/spareparts/maintenance+products/Rain+Cover/

Around six months of using it, it's yet to be robbed from any bike rank I've used in Dublin.

Victor

galwaycyclist wrote: »

• Ratoath - 13.04%
• Laytown-Bettystown-Mornington - 6.26%
• Lusk - 5.47%
• Donabate - 4.00%

One can understand why these towns have such low percentages - the towns are growing rapidly and haven't had secondary schools until now - I think the one in Donabate opened in 2011-2012. I imagine the small percentages present will account primarily for children who were coming to an end of primary school, but were 13 by April 2011 when the census was done.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

• Wexford - 76.25%
• Birr - 73.80%
• Tipperary - 72.43%
• Thurles - 70.73%
• Dungarvan - 70.71%
• Castlebar - 69.69%
• Newcastle West - 69.40%
• Nenagh - 67.73%
• Sligo - 66.27%
• Ballina - 65.84%
• Carrick-on-Suir - 65.44%
• Tralee - 64.76%
• Clonmel - 64.68%
• Westport - 63.03%
• Waterford City - 62.93%
• Limerick City - 62.43%
• Letterkenny - 60.56%
• Galway City - 56.30%
• Killarney - 54.76%
• Cork City - 54.76%
• Greater Dublin Area - 52.91%
• Ballinasloe - 51.51%

But for this list, one really has to wonder why 35-50% of the children attend a school not in the town (or indeed city) / more than 5km away - understandable in fast growing towns, but not established ones.

BenShermin

Victor wrote: »

But for this list, one really has to wonder why 35-50% of the children attend a school not in the town (or indeed city) / more than 5km away - understandable in fast growing towns, but not established ones.

Indeed, I'm actually shocked by the Dublin figures.

monument

Green Schools seem to be doing a lot of good work on this issue: http://www.greenschoolsireland.org/

Sadly, however, they are likely compelled to follow RSA pushing of helmets and high-vis.

Generally, some of the danger may not be real but, for walking, many crossing in towns and cities are just about usable for adults nevermind children (design and driver/cyclist behavour issues), and for cycling our roads are no longer designed for cycling and attempts to correct that in many places has made the problem worse.

Here's a question: Has there been a single safety audit done on an Irish road project with young school children on bicycles as a footpath user? In both Dublin and Ballina that's nearly the only place when I see them cycling (bar on roads in estates, and inner city children who cycle everywhere and in every direction).

The parking problem is also a major problem in places on the way to schools.

Richard Logue

We have made some attempts in recent years to provide dedicated cycle paths in new road schemes but there is still a long way to go before there's a critical mass of safe cycle paths.

Con Logue

Richard Logue wrote: »

We have made some attempts in recent years to provide dedicated cycle paths in new road schemes but there is still a long way to go before there's a critical mass of safe cycle paths.

Unfortunately a lot of the surfaces leave a lot to be desired, as discussed at length in the cycling forum.

There is goodwill though to create safe cycling routes to schools, Celbridge is a case in point. Ultimately both schools and parents will have to recognise that having their children making their own way to school safely is a worthwhile thing.

foggy_lad

BenShermin wrote: »

I've heard of some schools making it mandatory for students to wear helmets to and from school if they're cycling. Schools are actually making cycling look like a dangerous activity by making such safety equipment a requirement. This in turn won't help change the parents attitude who will think that their little Johnny will be safer in the SUV than on a bicycle to school.

back in the good aul days Somedays I cycled to secondary school, on lazy days I took the bus. One thing is for sure, none of the students would have cycled if they had to have worn helmets. Being a working class school, helmets were simply uncool.

THank god times have changed and wearing a cycling helmet is no longer likely to get a child beaten up:)

Victor wrote: »

But for this list, one really has to wonder why 35-50% of the children attend a school not in the town (or indeed city) / more than 5km away - understandable in fast growing towns, but not established ones.

A lot of it is down to snobbery and parents sending their children to what is considered a better school even if it is miles from were they live, St Wolstans school in Celbridge has students from Maynooth straffan, Clane, Prosperous, even some from Edenderry just because it is seen as a better school.

L1011

foggy_lad wrote: »

A lot of it is down to snobbery and parents sending their children to what is considered a better school even if it is miles from were they live, St Wolstans school in Celbridge has students from Maynooth straffan, Clane, Prosperous, even some from Edenderry just because it is seen as a better school.

I could make very unflattering comments about how it's seen by nonparents here...

Capacity issues have mostly ended school selection in this area and pending rules banning familial history selection will likely kill it dead

L1011

Victor wrote: »

But for this list, one really has to wonder why 35-50% of the children attend a school not in the town (or indeed city) / more than 5km away - understandable in fast growing towns, but not established ones.

For anywhere bar close suburbs of cities, hinterlands distort the figures. Maynooth PP serves a vast area of rural south Meath and some kildare villages which are all over 5 km away from the school, which itself is positioned well to one side of the town and planning on moving further out. Even very large provincial towns would match this

What I don't understand is how the traffic is so badly affected by school runs. The M1 Southbound from junction 4 is completely different depending on whether or not the schools are in and I just have to wonder how many people are not only sending their kids to a school that far away and then spending 1-2 hours a day driving them there and back.

fasttalkerchat

From age 7 I walked 1 mile home from school every day. It was along a main road without having to cross. I also passed another school on the way so there were plenty of parents and kids so it was safe.
Never did me any harm. Now the school has a rule that all under 10s have to be collected!

fasttalkerchat

Can't see cycling working. Can you imagine 50 kids on bikes tearing through a crowded path when the school gates open? Even worse if they're on the roads in heavy traffic.

etchyed

bk wrote: »

One idea I've seen used in the US, is walking groups, an adult (parent or teacher) who walks to the school and picks up kids on the route to the school. Reduces concerns about abductions, etc.

http://www.greenschoolsireland.org/travel/the-walking-bus.600.html

Seaswimmer

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Can't see cycling working. Can you imagine 50 kids on bikes tearing through a crowded path when the school gates open? Even worse if they're on the roads in heavy traffic.

Ah but if the 50 kids are on the road in heavy traffic then the traffic is less heavy as presumably their parents are not on the school run..

I notice far more kids cycling in certain areas. I cycle southside to northside every morning and the numbers cycling on the northside are much greater..

I put this down to the fact that northside kids go to their local schools while southside kids in my area travel to private schools which are further away from them.

If everyone went to their local school then the problem would be greatly reduced..

dowlingm

There was a programme a while back here at one Toronto school. The cops had a speed gun and there was a group of kids as well. If you were speeding but not beyond a certain amount, you had an option - take the speeding ticket and fine or listen to the kids lecture you on road safety. Obviously if you were way over the limit that option wouldn't be offered as it would not meet the seriousness of the offence.

Incidentally my wife (training to be a lawyer) is horrified every time I remind her that in Ireland paying the fine and accepting the points is basically a plea bargain with higher penalties if you lose in court. It's hard to get a road safety culture here when so many people are clogging up the courts hoping to get their case thrown out because of a failure to appear as witness by the arresting officer, and even if they lose will not incur more than the original fine/punishment.

foggy_lad

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Can't see cycling working. Can you imagine 50 kids on bikes tearing through a crowded path when the school gates open? Even worse if they're on the roads in heavy traffic.

Way Waaay back when I was in 2nd class in national school the teacher had a bike week which was preceded by road safety week and school crossing week!


In the bike week all children who had bikes had to bring them to school even if it meant their parents carrying the bike, no excuses were entertained(that's what we were led to believe anyway). when we were being thought to ride our bikes by this gifted teacher Mrs O'Brien those with bikes were encouraged to lend their bikes to those without so that they could also learn. we were thought to control our bikes at slow speeds at junctions etc and we all enjoyed the lessons, a few weeks later every boy in the class living local to the school was cycling to school on all types of bicycle.

Between all the road safety and bike safety we did it took up maybe 2-4 hours a week for us but probably a couple of lunchtimes for the teacher who spent her lunch putting out cones in the yard.

There was never a crowd of children tearing out the gate because there was always proper supervision and back then you would have to see the headmaster and possibly feel the cane on your hand if you didn't do what any teacher told you to do. Back them we did what we were told by those in charge without openly questioning, much like we do here with the mods.

n97 mini

MYOB wrote: »

Two things need to be done

1: The ridiculous weight of schoolbags these days needs to be sorted first, as its often actually not safe to carry all the required equipment.

You'll be delighted to know Kildare VEC is rolling out iPads to secondary schools from this September. Non-optional, you have to buy a new one even if you have one already, and it has to be an Apple iPad.

As books are now e-books, they cost "only" €350.

Total cost to parents €850. Credit Unions are doing "low cost" 6% loans to those who can't afford them.

L1011

n97 mini wrote: »

You'll be delighted to know Kildare VEC is rolling out iPads to secondary schools from this September. Non-optional, you have to buy a new one even if you have one already, and it has to be an Apple iPad.

As books are now e-books, they cost "only" €350.

Total cost to parents €850. Credit Unions are doing "low cost" 6% loans to those who can't afford them.

Why am I not surprised?

That wasn't quite the approach I was thinking of, more a return to books that aren't 75% glossy colour images with big text and seperate 'workbooks'.

Or state-commissioned and hence free PDFs that'll work on a 99 quid Android yoke, if we went down the electronic route.

The having to buy a new one regardless screams backhander to me.

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Can't see cycling working. Can you imagine 50 kids on bikes tearing through a crowded path when the school gates open? Even worse if they're on the roads in heavy traffic.

There won't be a queue of bikes 'when the school gates open' as that hasn't been how school days have ended for the best part of 40 years. Particularly in secondary schools, where not every year/class will be in for the final period, there's a hugely dispersed campus in many cases, and you need to unlock the bike from storage.

n97 mini

MYOB wrote: »

The having to buy a new one regardless screams backhander to me.

The whole thing does. I've asked Kildare VEC for information regarding the selection of Apple products. No answer as yet.

L1011

I'd be tempted to throw an FOI in although the fees are ridiculous now.

foggy_lad

n97 mini wrote: »

You'll be delighted to know Kildare VEC is rolling out iPads to secondary schools from this September. Non-optional, you have to buy a new one even if you have one already, and it has to be an Apple iPad.

As books are now e-books, they cost "only" €350.

Total cost to parents €850. Credit Unions are doing "low cost" 6% loans to those who can't afford them.

Some parents will have to fork out for three or more of these iPads, who is getting commission on the sales for all these iPads? There is definitely someone making a mint from this here as the Dail recently provided iPads for all members.

Victor

MYOB wrote: »

For anywhere bar close suburbs of cities, hinterlands distort the figures. Maynooth PP serves a vast area of rural south Meath and some kildare villages which are all over 5 km away from the school, which itself is positioned well to one side of the town and planning on moving further out. Even very large provincial towns would match this

Not really, the statistic is more about where people live than where the school is. It is about people in the continuous urban area of each of the towns - not people in the next town, that is unless there is ribbon development joining the two.

Deleted User wrote: »

What I don't understand is how the traffic is so badly affected by school runs. The M1 Southbound from junction 4 is completely different depending on whether or not the schools are in and I just have to wonder how many people are not only sending their kids to a school that far away and then spending 1-2 hours a day driving them there and back.

Some workers schedule their leave around the school holidays. Many people are more likely to walk/cycle or use public transport during the summer. You will have fewer pupils driving also.

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Can't see cycling working. Can you imagine 50 kids on bikes tearing through a crowded path when the school gates open? Even worse if they're on the roads in heavy traffic.

But this happens perfectly safely at many schools.

Aard

Victor wrote: »

One can understand why these towns have such low percentages - the towns are growing rapidly and haven't had secondary schools until now - I think the one in Donabate opened in 2011-2012. I imagine the small percentages present will account primarily for children who were coming to an end of primary school, but were 13 by April 2011 when the census was done.

But for this list, one really has to wonder why 35-50% of the children attend a school not in the town (or indeed city) / more than 5km away - understandable in fast growing towns, but not established ones.

A lot of parents do not want to send their kids to the nearest school. My secondary school was an Irish school, which had a huge catchment area as there were not many of them around. I think there are about five in the city. I'd well believe that half the kids lived over 5km away -- it was not uncommon for people to come in from Wicklow every day.

dowlingm

Here's a PPT on the iPad in Kildare trial last year. As it's not C&T related I will give full vent to the rage I suffered reading it, except to say that here in Canada, parents don't buy books. School districts do, and any gadget that replaces books the same.

Victor

For the whole state

Students who travel less than 1km to school: 1,161

Students who travel more than 50km to school (not necessarily daily): 1,843

Richard Logue

One approach used here in the UK is to establish "School travel plans" to encourage newly established schools to consider approved walking/cycling routes. A new school near us has established a walking bus route where volunteer parents meet groups of children at fixed points on their way to school and back.

Iwannahurl

Good subject for a thread. I've only just seen it, though, so I can't respond to the many interesting points raised.

This was in the Irish Times Health+Family supplement today:

According to the Department of Transport, over half of primary school children in Ireland live within 1km of school, with two out of three living within 2km. Taking into consideration secondary schools, over half of all school children live no more than a 20-30-minute walk away (2km), while 80 per cent live within 5km which is only a short cycle away. Yet under 40 per cent of our schoolchildren walk or cycle to school.

Also:

Iwannahurl wrote: »

From the Irish Heart Foundation's 2010 report, Building Young Hearts:

Findings from the 2006 Census echo the reduction in active travel modes to school. Between 1991 and 2006 walking and cycling decreased while travel by car increased. 25% travel less than 1km, 36% travel between 2-4km and 60% of parents who drop off by car don’t go to work.*

Assuming all the above figures are correct, it is simply absurd that so many children are driven to school rather than take the bus, walk or cycle.

One or two issues raised in this thread caught my eye.

Heavy schoolbags may well be a universal problem (eg see this Dutch TV report) but is it really so bad in Ireland that it results in massive car use and car dependence? There are children in my neighbourhood travelling 800 metres to the same primary school with presumably the same weight of books, yet some opt for the car and some walk. The video above discusses the weight of schoolbags but in the background droves of children are seen cycling, whereas here they would be walking a few metres to a car parked up on the footpath.

Illegal parking around schools is a very important issue and a very vexed question, in my experience. I was discussing this with another parent recently, as it happens one who cycles a fair bit, including with child on board. I was amazed to hear her say that she thought it a "fundamentalist" and "selfish" position to expect car-driving parents to obey road traffic law outside schools and to insist that cyclists be facilitated by measures such as not making it illegal (with one-way street restrictions) for children to cycle to school by the most convenient route. There seems to be a deeply-ingrained mindset that somehow regards walking as the choice of a few eccentric people with a lot of time on their hands, and that busy people with important things to do cannot be expected to give up either space or time to accommodate them, even if the law is being broken.

The road safety arguments have some merit, perhaps. This is James Wickham's perspective, in his book Gridlock:

The falling number of children who walk to school is symptomatic of the vicious circle of car dependence. Parents worry about their children's safety, so they drive their children to school. Consequently children lose the skills to use roads safely and at the same time there are now more cars on the roads, making the roads more dangerous. Once it becomes 'normal' for children to be driven to school, the distance between home and school increases, so that soon many children are living too far away from school to walk there.

I would have to disagree with that last sentence, since the DoT figures quoted earlier tell a different story regarding actual travel distances. My view would be that much car use is habitual, and that routine driving increases the perceived distance between home and school. Successive generations are taking to the car and losing a sense of what distances can be reasonably covered on foot or by bike.

There's more to it than that, of course. The psychology of car dependence is complex, for a start.

Carawaystick

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What I don't understand is how the traffic is so badly affected by school runs. The M1 Southbound from junction 4 is completely different depending on whether or not the schools are in and I just have to wonder how many people are not only sending their kids to a school that far away and then spending 1-2 hours a day driving them there and back.

I think a large part of this is due to parents going on holidays during school holidays, and not going to work, as opposed to bringing children on a school run

Iwannahurl

Carawaystick wrote: »

I think a large part of this is due to parents going on holidays during school holidays, and not going to work, as opposed to bringing children on a school run

For 2-3 months?

Victor

Iwannahurl wrote: »

For 2-3 months?

Yes. All those school and college staff and people who do flexi-time and/or can work from home.

Iwannahurl

The number of school staff is obviously tiny compared to the number of parents.

As for Third Level staff, they're supposed to be working. University lecturers, for example, do not get 2-3 months holidays, ttbomk. Admins get normal holidays like everyone else. In any case, the number of college students is greater than the number of lecturers and admins, so that doesn't entirely explain the reduced traffic outside of the school term.

I doubt that flexi-time and working from home accounts for a large part of the traffic reduction either.