National Air Cargo 744 down at Bagram

greenybaby

thedarksh1te wrote: »

Absolutely chilling video! Rip to those involved. Aparently this is the plane involved

That's the one alright N949CA - http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/747/25630,N949CA-National-Airlines-(MUA).php

Horrific to watch, and the comments on youtube are just ridiculous, people are twats, R.I.P to all involved

greenybaby

Also just to add re: not hearing about it on the news, how many of these do ye hear of http://aviation.globalincidentmap.com/

donkey balls

Shocking video all right as for the media not wanting to know about crashes of cargo aircraft they do get reported on tv&radio but to the bare minimum,Over the years you had the Fedex MD11 crash at NRT, the UPS 747 AT DXB MK airlines in Canada etc.
But as another poster mentioned the media and normal joe soap they just think it was two pilots hauling boxes of freight,I was once asked do cargo pilots have the same licence as the ones who fly pax aircraft:(.
As for the load shifting and the aircraft stalling due to the load moving it could be a factor as I know about another operator whose aircraft crashed and stalled due to the load shifting and been out of trim.
Freight loaded on to the freighters are first secured to airline pallets and strapped down&secured with ratchet straps/cargo nets,They are then rolled on to the main deck were they are secured with the pallet locks on the floor of the aircraft.
From experience once a pallet/ULD gets momentum it is very hard to stop it and that's from just pushing it in to place while it is parked on the stand,If it was the case that the load shifted due to the locks failing on rotation the pallet and the load would have shot back at some speed as the aircraft accelerated.
This what a B747F looks like inside 2013-04-20 13.39.51.jpg

RadioRetro

RIP to the crew, horrifying to see (and I witnessed two crashes - one fatal - as a teen and was at the aftermath of another).

Re. press coverage, the Journal was well up to speed in online media and the Guardian ran it on the 29th, including the video posted earlier. the Grauniad also had an article on this with a photo yesterday. They're not all bad.

knucklehead6

Oh god.

AH have heard about this crash.

robertxxx

Really creepy the way the plane moves to its right, I wonder did the camera man know straight away it was crashing by pulling those moves.

Pilotdude5

I was once asked do cargo pilots have the same licence as the ones who fly pax aircraft

Yup in the last few months my friends have suggested "Sure can't you just fly cargo until a better job comes up? There would be no shame in it."

The media only picked up on it once the video came out. RIP to the crew.

donkey balls

Pilotdude5 wrote: »

Yup in the last few months my friends have suggested "Sure can't you just fly cargo until a better job comes up? There would be no shame in it."

The media only picked up on it once the video came out. RIP to the crew.

The thing is the big freighter outfits pay the same if not more than the legacy airlines do.

delly

5 military vehicles onboard. I can only assume if one shifted it could easily have dislodged the rest if the weight and force was enough. That would equate to an incredible amount of load shift for the worst case scenario.

lomb

If it took off at a lower angle of climb that might never have happened though. Its amazing how maneuverable such a large beast is even at stall the way it was rolled wings level. Rip to the crew.

FWVT

With a density altitude of 6,135 ft at the time it's interesting that it still landed inside the airport perimeter, just passed the end of the 11,895 ft runway. It must have been carrying a relatively light load for it to rotate so early but unfortunately if the load you do have all shifts then there's not a whole lot you can do. It must have been a pretty frightening last couple of seconds for them. Poor guys.

BZ

Watching the footage of this crash just seems surreal,it looks like a cargo shift once one of these military vehicles moves onboard very different to getting a pallet back into place.
I knew 3 of the crew killed in the accident from there days of regularly transiting Shannon with the National DC-8s couldn't meet a nicer bunch of guys.RIP

lomb

BZ wrote: »

Watching the footage of this crash just seems surreal,it looks like a cargo shift once one of these military vehicles moves onboard very different to getting a pallet back into place.
I knew 3 of the crew killed in the accident from there days of regularly transiting Shannon with the National DC-8s couldn't meet a nicer bunch of guys.RIP

Why would a vehicle move though with say even a 10 degree nose up? I persume they were in gear with the handbrakes on never mind tied down? Would the thought of escaping insurgent rockets have caused them to climb at a better rate of climb than advisable?

shedweller

lomb wrote: »

Why would a vehicle move though with say even a 10 degree nose up? I persume they were in gear with the handbrakes on never mind tied down? Would the thought of escaping insurgent rockets have caused them to climb at a better rate of climb than advisable?

They load them on "pallets" which arent like the wooden ones we see everywhere.

They are made to fit a wide range of planes and have lockdowns on them to lock them to the floor. The vehicles are strapped down to the pallets before they are loaded onto the plane afaik so they should be secure. Military vehicles have an enormous amount of tie down points on them so i am puzzled how this happened. Mind you, if the front pallet broke free, the shock load on the next one could overload the lock downs and cascade all the way down to the back.

The image above is not from the the 747 that crashed, just an example.

kona

lomb wrote: »

Why would a vehicle move though with say even a 10 degree nose up? I persume they were in gear with the handbrakes on never mind tied down? Would the thought of escaping insurgent rockets have caused them to climb at a better rate of climb than advisable?

The cargo bay is lined with rollers, wouldn't matter a **** what gear it was in , once 13 odd tonnes move your going to need some force to stop it.

shedweller

Crew has been identified also:http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CARGO_PLANE_CRASH_AFGHANISTAN?SITE=NDWIL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Madpaddy79

shedweller wrote: »

They load them on "pallets" which arent like the wooden ones we see everywhere.

They are made to fit a wide range of planes and have lockdowns on them to lock them to the floor. The vehicles are strapped down to the pallets before they are loaded onto the plane afaik so they should be secure. Military vehicles have an enormous amount of tie down points on them so i am puzzled how this happened. Mind you, if the front pallet broke free, the shock load on the next one could overload the lock downs and cascade all the way down to the back.

The image above is not from the the 747 that crashed, just an example.

This example pic of a 747 is a good one, but see how many points on the aircraft floor are used to strap the vehicle to the aircraft and not just to the pallet! So pallets are not just going to roll away.

Also a LM was onboard, odds are against a cargo shift IMO.

CaptainSkidmark

LM was on board?

AndyP

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

LM was on board?

LM is loadmaster. Expert in calculating airborne heavy cargoes.

NobodyImportant

Yes, LM was on board.

knucklehead6

Prelim report from Ministry of transport and Civil Aviation of Afghanistan reports quickly shifting cargo, smashed into the back of the aircraft and parts of the plane seperated.

http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4&opt=0

Aviation Herald wrote:

On Jun 2nd 2013 accident investigators by the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation of Afghanistan reported in a press conference that quickly shifting cargo, consisting of three armored vehicles and two mine sweepers totalling at 80 tons of weight, caused the accident. The cargo slammed so hard at the back of the aircraft, that parts of the aircraft separated and wiring in the back was severed. As result of the shift and loss of aircraft parts the center of gravity moved so far back, that the attitude of the aircraft could no longer be controlled, the nose of the aircraft rose beyond the flying envelope of the aircraft and the aircraft stalled destroying the aircraft and killing all crew in the resulting impact. Parts of the aircraft, that separated as result of the initial load shift, were recovered from the runway. The straps used to tie down the cargo were recovered from the accident site, although charred they provided evidence of having fractured before final impact, it was unclear however, whether the fracture(s) had happened before or after takeoff.

The FAA had released a Safety Alert for Operators on May 20th 2013 regarding securing heavy vehicles in aircraft, see News: FAA concerned about potential safety impact of carrying and restraining heavy vehicle special cargo loads.

brandon_flowers

Crew had zero chance, it still shows the strength of the fuselage/cargo door that something that heavy didn't smash all the way through.

smurfjed

it still shows the strength of the fuselage/cargo door that something that heavy didn't smash all the way through.

What door are you talking about?

smurfjed

John_Mc

Cargo door is on the front of the B744F as far as I know. Still though, it's a valid point about not smashing through!

brandon_flowers

My bad, military equipment etc C-17 in my brain. It was of course a front loading plane.

EchoIndia

As this was a conversion of a passenger aircraft it had only a side cargo door.
http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/266632/n949ca-national-airlines-boeing-747-400f/

donkey balls

John_Mc wrote: »

Cargo door is on the front of the B744F as far as I know. Still though, it's a valid point about not smashing through!

Depending on the model of 747F the main cargo door can Fwd or Aft.