Assembly language

Marsden

How important is learning assembly, I know it's not used in everyday programming in an average programming job, but from a college perspective. I like programming but find assembly to be a pain in the swiss. Is it one of those things you get introduced to in computer science year 1 and then forgotten about. Or will it become the bane of my existence for the next 3 years if I don't nip it in the bud.

galwayjohn89

Marsden wrote: »

How important is learning assembly, I know it's not used in everyday programming in an average programming job, but from a college perspective. I like programming but find assembly to be a pain in the swiss. Is it one of those things you get introduced to in computer science year 1 and then forgotten about. Or will it become the bane of my existence for the next 3 years if I don't nip it in the bud.

We learnt it in first year and it didn't appear much in second year. As far as I know it will be back in bits next year (third year).

Marsden

Know of any good online resources vuzuggu, seems hard to find something decent. I suppose I better get the finger out and learn as much as I can before the exams start.

galwayjohn89

Not really. One thing I noticed is there isn't much online for it. What processor are you working on?

Marsden

8086, I thought the same, there's no consistency in anything online. Some websites start with an intro and end abruptly, while others start on what seems like chapter 7. I'd downloaded a book months ago on micro-processors but reckon I might have deleted it, could of been handy.

SilverScreen

Learned 8086 in the second year of my course and hated it. Never had to use it again after that thankfully. Embedded C is quite popular for embedded systems so it's more worthwhile learning that.

KonFusion

We were given this as our only resource for learning asm in first year (and then never saw it again...)

A ****ing processor manual... Hadn't a ****ing clue what to do with it :pac:

Marsden

Finished C this year, is embedded C much different?

rainbow kirby

We did some of it in first year, using a book that was written by the lecturer himself. I wasn't a huge fan, it's something that it helps to know about, but unless you are doing extremely low-level work you'll never use it in the working environment. Just part of your overall education really.

SilverScreen

Marsden wrote: »

Finished C this year, is embedded C much different?

It's not that different at all. It's still basically C only with added features to let you program registers and I/O effectively. If you have a solid foundation in C it's something you'll pick up easier than assembly. It's used in Texas Instruments microcontrollers so it's quite popular.

Trojan

I learned IBM360/390 assembler on the job in my first real software job, the low-level C and machine code from college really, really helped.

I'm not so sure that's of use to many high-level language developers - kids these days just drag and drop, right?

CreepingDeath

I learnt 80x86 assembly back in my day... a good 20 years ago.
Before all your fancy hardware accelerated graphics cards, you needed it to write good graphics drivers.

It provides you with a good understanding of the processor and how to use it more efficiently, eg. unrolling loops.

I wrote a Java disassembler a few years back and knowledge of the stack frame helped to work out when one statement ended.

But most commercial developers won't use assembly.
It'll be mostly for people writing low level telecoms, operating system code (eg. Linux), code for embedded devices seems to be a common job vacancy too.

Marsden

Good to know that it won't be a prominent feature for the next few years.
/*Leans back cracks fingers "It's all plain sailing now that year one is done*/

Not sure if this should be a new thread or not but I'll give it a whirl. I'd love to get a bit of work experience during the summer months in something relevant to my course, do any of you folks know if their would be any companies that would take on a young buck like meself with only a years education under me belt.

returnNull

Trojan wrote: »

kids these days just drag and drop, right?

copy n paste :cool:

galwayjohn89

Marsden wrote:

Not sure if this should be a new thread or not but I'll give it a whirl. I'd love to get a bit of work experience during the summer months in something relevant to my course, do any of you folks know if their would be any companies that would take on a young buck like meself with only a years education under me belt.

What course are you doing?

Trojan

returnNull wrote: »

copy n paste :cool:

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Marsden

Vuzuggu wrote: »

What course are you doing?

Computer science

galwayjohn89

Marsden wrote: »

Computer science

Sorry should have been a bit more specific. Which college? Each college do different modules in first years which would impact on the best area to try and get an internship in.

Marsden

DIT, modules covered are C programming, programming with persistent data (C again), OS (bit of Linux admin), algorithm and design, micro-processors (assembly and C), computer architecture, IT fundamentals(waste of time), web development (html5 css3, small bit of javascript).

PrzemoF

OP, It's probably not very important as an every-day language, but it's good to know because it's the very bottom of programming languages - there is nothing closer to the bare silicone that assembler. It's something like Otto/Diesel cycle for car mechanic - not required in every day work, but every car mechanic should at least have an idea why engine works.

RealistSpy

Assembly is very important if you are interested in reverse engineering .
Powerpc and 8086 but if you are not interested in reverse engineering then not so important. Assembly rocks..

Tom Dunne

RealistSpy wrote: »

Assembly rocks..

Couldn't agree more.

I teach on a college course that incorporates assembly language. It's a first year, first semester course and I firmly believe the 2-3 weeks spent on assembly language consolidates the preceding knowledge on basic architecture/rom/ram/addressing/binary and so on.

I learned 6502 assembly on a board with a 4-digit display and hex keypad. None of your fancy assemblers the kids have today. Fond memories.

Sparks

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I learned 6502 assembly on a board with a 4-digit display and hex keypad. None of your fancy assemblers the kids have today. Fond memories.

You had a real chip? Luxury...

satchmo

Understanding assembly is important for working in the games industry, especially if you work on console engines. You need to understand how to read registers, how the stack works, what and where the ABI is, how to trace through instructions, etc. When it's two weeks from shipping and you're getting a crash in the Release build with no debugging symbols that only happens once a day after an hour of play, believe me you'll be thankful for it. A basic understanding is also necessary if you want to do any SIMD optimization.

The good thing is that assembly is not at all complicated. All you really need is an understanding of which registers do what on your target processor (that's what the ABI is for), an instruction reference (I like x86asm.net for x86 & x86-64), and lots and lots of patience.