Is Irish criticism of Israel anti-semetic?

Foxhound38

Was reading through some Times articles online can came across this.

Israeli soldiers evicted several hundred Bedouins from a village in the occupied West Bank today after the army declared the area a live-fire training zone.



The residents of Wadi al-Maleh, a village mostly inhabited by shepherds in the arid area bordering Jordan, had almost all left their homes by an evening curfew and retreated to neighbouring villages, Aref Daraghmeh, a local leader said.



The displacement coincided with several demolitions of Arab properties in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, which come as the United States is trying to revive stalled peace.


In January, villagers received a similar eviction order and left without resisting, only to return after 48 hours. Almost all of their 90 buildings, including shelters for their animals, were demolished in 2010, local rights groups said.

Now, I've often debated the Israel issue online and one thing that always gets thrown my direction from its defenders is that I and anyone else who says its repression of the Palestinians and Arabs within its effective borders is unnacceptable and against international law am engaging in anti-semitism, even though religion or jewishness is never brought into the conversation on my side of it (my mother is Jewish in fact) - I always keep the debate framed about one group of people oppressing another group of people and nothing else. When looking at the above story, it seems incomprehensible that those perpetrating it should be let off the hook without criticism for the way they are acting.



So my question is this: is it possible to have a rational conversation about Israeli policy in this regard? Should the fact that Israel is the worlds only Jewish State (and surrounded by hostile forces, admittedly) give it the right to act with impunity in terms of how it treats the Palestinians, often for domestic political ends when it comes to Likud?

OneArt

I wish people weren't so stupid.

Saying that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic is like saying that criticism of Zimbabwe is racist.

Wibbs

I can see this thread being "interesting". Hopefully in a good way mind you.

Links234

No, it's not.

Gorilla Rising

I suppose I'm a horrible racist for thinking Kanye West is a d!ck.

Seaneh

No, it's not. Calling someone antisemitic because they are critical of the state of Israel is a typical tactic used by zionists and their apologists to try and scare people out of vocalising their views on the illegal occupation on the West Bank and illegal blockade of Gaza.

SimonLynch

I don't know the facts of the case but I do know Bedouins are nomadic, might it be akin to a Traveller settlement on the Glen of Imaal?

Yamanoto

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Now, I've often debated the Israel issue online and one thing that always gets thrown my direction from its defenders is that I and anyone else who says its repression of the Palestinians and Arabs within its effective borders is unnacceptable and against international law am engaging in anti-semitism, even though religion or jewishness is never brought into the conversation on my side of it (my mother is Jewish in fact) - I always keep the debate framed about one group of people oppressing another group of people and nothing else.

That's some sentence to be fair to you.

On the other hand, you've brought up this shaggin pox again.

Foxhound38

Yamanoto wrote: »

That's some sentence to be fair to you.

On the other hand, you've brought up this shaggin pox again.

The settlement eviction was topical so I said I'd bring it into a wider discussion

harry Bailey esq

i don't know who wrote that article but, bedoins don't come from the middle east,they come from north Africa,and would have no place in Palestine.its very easy to be accused of anti semitism,but judaism and Zionism are separate entities. and a hatred of Zionism is often taken is a hatred of Jews,which is not case at all,but regarded as anti semite because practitioners of Zionism are hardcore Jews.most Jewish people wouldn't be Zionists.

Marsden

It's not anti-Semitic at all, but I do find it interesting that Palestine is one of the few places on earth that the Irish press seem to be able to report liberally on (off topic I know but I always wondered why this was). Any other conflict it seems our side of the story is dictated by the US or UK. I seem to remember Jacque Chirac being called Jacque leworm and having a full two pages in some rag showing him metamorphosing into a worm for speaking out against the invasion of Iraq. Sorry for hi-jacking your thread but whenever I hear of Palestine this is one of those thing's that comes to the forefront of my mind.

Arcsin

Doesn't matter if it is or isn't. At this point it should be clear that Israel doesn't give a fcuk about criticism from anyone.

This thread is probably going to get really heated but at the end of it Israel will still do whatever it wants and blow up anyone who gets in their way.

Seaneh

harry Bailey esq wrote: »

bedoins don't come from the middle east,they come from north Africa,and would have no place in Palestine.

Well, that's not entirely accurate, there have been Bedouin tribes spread from Morocco to Oman for the last several hundred years and the tribes in Israel, Palestine and Jordan would have come from the southern Arabian region, modern Oman and Yemen, and have been there for at least 2 centuries, some of them would have been there a lot longer than that.


The rest of your thread is fairly spot on for the most part.

Knasher

Criticism of Israel isn't automatically anti-semitic, it is unquestionably a pretty controversial state after all.

Foxhound38 wrote: »

So my question is this: is it possible to have a rational conversation about Israeli policy in this regard?

Probably not on the internet to be honest. There are always people on the fringes of a debate and the fringe in this debate is pretty extreme. If you are arguing on some of the policies of Israel, there will be people who agree simply because you are arguing against Israel, and people who disagree for the same reason. The content of your debate makes little difference, it doesn't take much for one side or the other to completely derail the conversation.

Mal-Adjusted

Anyone with half a brain and a few seconds to think about it can tell you that criticism of Israels actions regarding the Palestinians are not anti-semetic but rather of state policy, bit shur isn't it a great stick to use when someone does criticize them.

not to bring the thread off topic, but it's the same thing certain members of a certain community wheel out when ever they're caught robbing houses.

mathepac

If the Israeli Government did not have the backing of a massively wealthy group in the US (guess which one) they'd have had little success with their overtly racist outlook and policies.

As soon as they cease their racist actions against Palestinians and others they might earn the right to hurl anti-Semitic accusations at their critics.

feargale

Equating Anti-Zionism with Anti-Semitism is the Blood Libel in reverse.

alastair

mathepac wrote: »

If the Israeli Government did not have the backing of a massively wealthy group in the US (guess which one) they'd have had little success with their overtly racist outlook and policies.

As soon as they cease their racist actions against Palestinians and others they might earn the right to hurl anti-Semitic accusations at their critics.

Which massively wealthy group might you be suggesting that is then? Because you're not exactly making your case with this line.

K-9

Knasher wrote: »

Criticism of Israel isn't automatically anti-semitic, it is unquestionably a pretty controversial state after all.

There seems to be a natural sympathy between Irish Republicans and Palestinians, not commenting either way on that, just saying it seems to exist.

Probably not on the internet to be honest. There are always people on the fringes of a debate and the fringe in this debate is pretty extreme. If you are arguing on some of the policies of Israel, there will be people who agree simply because you are arguing against Israel, and people who disagree for the same reason. The content of your debate makes little difference, it doesn't take much for one side or the other to completely derail the conversation.

Anything Israel will attract hard line defenders of Israel (and hard line critics to be fair), it has been commented on before in online debates, with a few of the mainstream media sites worldwide even commenting on it (IIRC). It has been hinted strongly a few times that there are groups that just basically are ready to pounce when anything online anti-Israel comes up.

Government shills would be the general perceived view, I think that is wrong and just an easy slur thrown about, most are probably unpaid and just fanatically enthusiastic.

hatrickpatrick

Criticism of Israel is very blindingly obviously not anti semitic, and those who claim it is are cynical gobsh!tes who just want to intimidate people into shutting up because they're scared of what they have to say.

Ironically enough, I would imagine that the State of Israel contributes to genuine anti Semitism through its constant claims of being a victim of anti semitism. Look around internet forums and you'll see the number of people who are now buying into the idea of a Jewish conspiracy of some kind simply because the state of Israel very obviously has far too much control over American elections, and because any parody of Jews in any way is met with such vitriolic and instant condemnation.

I suppose this is pretty much universal though. You see it in many walks of life - radicals of any group end up making people dislike that group. Radical muslims are contributing to general Islamophobia, radical feminists are completely destroying genuine feminism's image, hell you could say radical Irishmen in the form of RIRA and others contributed to general anti Irish sentiment in Britain during the Troubles.

Wash, rinse, repeat, and refuse to learn from the mistakes of others in history. Such is the sad fate of so many groups with a self centered victim mentality.

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

and because any parody of Jews in any way is met with such vitriolic and instant condemnation.

Maybe I'm picking this up completely the wrong way here, but you kinda sound as if you're saying that like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't the parody of Jews be condemned?

kupus

Just seems to me that liberals love the Palestine cause and wail about it every chance they get......somehow forgetting that should Palestine become a fully fledged state, then liberal policies will be out the door so fast, they wont have time to get their knickers in a twist about it.

I have no problem with the way Israelis deal with their terrorist neighbors. But they do sometimes use too much aggression in areas where refinement would work much better.

hatrickpatrick

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe I'm picking this up completely the wrong way here, but you kinda sound as if you're saying that like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't the parody of Jews be condemned?

Because you can parody almost anything else in the world without anything as serious as losing your job or having a visa revoked. I'm not a fan of special treatment for any group, regardless of the justification. And again, I wouldn't call that an anti semitic remark, anyone who knows me around here would tell you I've made similar comments about many other "untouchable" groups. I don't believe in untouchables, I believe in freedom of speech.

hatrickpatrick

kupus wrote: »

Just seems to me that liberals love the Palestine cause and wail about it every chance they get......somehow forgetting that should Palestine become a fully fledged state, then liberal policies will be out the door so fast, they wont have time to get their knickers in a twist about it.

I have no problem with the way Israelis deal with their terrorist neighbors. But they do sometimes use too much aggression in areas where refinement would work much better.

What are your views on private property rights?
And what would be your views on the philosophy employed by Israel apologists, that it's ok to steal private property as long as you have a bigger gun than the person you're stealing it from?

For the record, my issue with Israel has never been about the war or the violence, my issue with Israel is their expanding illegally beyond their original borders and literally bulldozing the homes of any human beings who get in the way. It's called stealing.
If tomorrow morning Israel withdrew to their pre 1967 borders and returned control of East Jerusalem and the West Bank to the people who make up the absolute vast majority of the population in those areas - the Palestinians - I would probably never have a single complaint to make about them again.

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If tomorrow morning Israel withdrew to their pre 1967 borders and returned control of East Jerusalem and the West Bank to the people who make up the absolute vast majority of the population in those areas - the Palestinians - I would probably never have a single complaint to make about them again.

When you say "return" control of the West Bank to the people who live there, you seem to think the Palestinians were ever in control in the first place. They weren't. It was Jordan in charge pre '67, whose own occupation was questionable at best after moving in after what was more or less a land grab as well, and whose own treatment of the Palestinian people is not something I'd be queuing up for were I a Palestinian myself.

Don't get me wrong. Those people have been treated disgracefully for decades, but if you think that treatment starts and ends with the State of Israel then you are mistaken. They are treated little better than South African blacks under Apartheid in more countries in the region than a lot of the right-on hippies, IRA apologists, and D4 students who will shortly be posting here would care to acknowledge.

dh0011

OP Israel is one of the most dangerous nations on the planet.

A lot of people who try to defend the indefensible will attack the person they are arguing with rather than argue a point that is impossible to make. That is what these people are doing.

I once had a similar conversation where a person said to me "Does Israel not have a right to exist". I said it does when it makes up its mind where its borders are.

speedboatchase

There's bound to be some degree of Anti-Semitism among the extreme elements but that's to be expected. However, I don't buy the argument that all anti-Israel posters have simply got a problem with the govt and that's that. Maybe they don't hate Jews but they hate Israel itself, not just the govt. The people who protested when the Israeli women's football team came to play a football match in 2011 were a bunch of rude a**holes that see anything Israeli as an opportunity to pontificate.

VinLieger

alastair wrote: »

Which massively wealthy group might you be suggesting that is then? Because you're not exactly making your case with this line.

The massive Jewis/Israeli lobby, most of the republican party, ron paul is the only exception i know there and basically cast as the devil from hell by pro isaeli lobbyists for his stance on israel.
Most people in american politics are deathly afraid to go against the policy of "support israel without question" as the instant you do the words anti-semitism pop up

osarusan

It depends on the criticism. There is plenty of reasoned and legitimate criticsim of the actions of the Israeli government (and by extension those that (re)elect them). There is also ignorant anti-semimitism.

The problem is that the former is all too often dismissed as the latter, even by people who know they're not the same thing.

Sacksian

Not sure I agree with the starting point of the OP.

I don't think I have ever had a conversation with anyone where there was any accusation of anti-semitism for criticising Israeli foreign policy.

In fact, it's actually quite difficult to have a reasonable conversation which involves a defence of Israel or any criticism of Palestine.

Irish diplomats and our foreign service have a long tradition of supporting Palestine so our official position has generally been quite critical of Israeli govt policy (and this stance has caused difficulties with the US, for example). So, again - criticism of Israel really is the popular position.

My concern is that the phrase "anti-Zionism" is now being used as camouflage for anti-semites and anti-semitic discourse.

Here is my position:

Israel should be held to the same standards as every other country and not singled out for higher standards than its neighbours.

If I hear the traditional themes of anti-semitism (Jewish conspiracies for world domination, tying Jews with money & media) being used to criticise Israeli policy, I am a little suspicious.

If someone denies Israel the right to identify itself as a nation but permits others to do so ( e.g. Palestinians), I'd wonder why that is.

Many "Anti-Zionists" are only happy to condemn anti-semitism as long as Jews give up any desire to have a Jewish state. And I'm not sure that same logic would be applied as evenly to other nationalist movements.

hatrickpatrick

speedboatchase wrote: »

There's bound to be some degree of Anti-Semitism among the extreme elements but that's to be expected. However, I don't buy the argument that all anti-Israel posters have simply got a problem with the govt and that's that. Maybe they don't hate Jews but they hate Israel itself, not just the govt. The people who protested when the Israeli women's football team came to play a football match in 2011 were a bunch of rude a**holes that see anything Israeli as an opportunity to pontificate.

I would imagine a lot (not all, but a lot) of them would stop having a problem with Israel if Israel stopped bulldozing families' houses outside its jurisdiction to make room for illegal settlements, and then loosely trying to use religion to justify it.
I certainly would. Stealing is not on. Unless I choose to sell you my house you can't f*cking have it, simple as that. The fact that you can force me out with tanks and air strikes doesn't make it any better.

hatrickpatrick

Sacksian wrote: »

If someone denies Israel the right to identify itself as a nation but permits others to do so ( e.g. Palestinians), I'd wonder why that is.
Many "Anti-Zionists" are only happy to condemn anti-semitism as long as Jews give up any desire to have a Jewish state. And I'm not sure that same logic would be applied as evenly to other nationalist movements.

Could I put it to you that some of us are perfectly happy for Israel to exist as a state, provided it stops expanding its border into lands owned and worked by people who do not accept rule by a foreign government?

KenSwee

The governments, secret services and military of Israel are responsible for the continuing hostility towards them. When they purge the individuals involved in those sections that continue to keep the hostile policies and make a genuine effort to solve conflict in and around their country, then I will respect the nation of Israel and acknowledge it's right to exist.
Until then, in it's current form, it is an apartheid rouge nation hiding behind democracy and has no rights in my opinion.
That's not anti-semantic and never will be.

KenSwee

speedboatchase wrote: »

There's bound to be some degree of Anti-Semitism among the extreme elements but that's to be expected. However, I don't buy the argument that all anti-Israel posters have simply got a problem with the govt and that's that. Maybe they don't hate Jews but they hate Israel itself, not just the govt. The people who protested when the Israeli women's football team came to play a football match in 2011 were a bunch of rude a**holes that see anything Israeli as an opportunity to pontificate.

The same thing happened to South African rugby sides in the 70s and 80s and nobody came to their defence; rightly so.

Blisterman

I don't see anyone protesting when China or Russia for example come to play, and they're equally if not more guilty of human rights abuses, and illegal occupation.

Yitzhak Rabin

Of course its not anti-Semitic to criticise the government or Defence Force of Israel. People who suggest that lose any bit of credibility they have, and are clearly not interested in having a reasoned debate. Its a cheap ploy to shut-down debate, as being called an anti-semite is one of the more reprehensible labels you can put on someone.

Now, that said, that is different to the argument where someone could question why there is a sizeable proportion of Ireland's left-wing elements, that are disproportionately interested in the affairs of Israel. Judging by the politics section of this site, you'd be forgiven for thinking its the only conflict going on in the world at the moment.

The conflict in Israel/Palestine is classified as a minor skirmish. There are far bloodier full out wars and insurgencies being fought the world over. The whole of North, and central Africa is practically in a constant state of conflict.
Russia has a decades long conflict going on in Chechnya, the list is incredibly long before you get down to the conflict in Israel.

I mean there were 12,000 civilian casualties in Burma last year!

Half a million people have died in the civil war in Somalia since 1991!

Then you have one of the more recent ones, such as the conflict which started in Mali last year. 3,500 people have died there. That should be of interest to Irish people given Ireland has a training team deployed there, yet it barely registers.

So, I can understand how Israelis might feel that there was a strange and disproportionate interest in their affairs from a lot of Irish people.

hatrickpatrick

Blisterman wrote: »

I don't see anyone protesting when China or Russia for example come to play, and they're equally if not more guilty of human rights abuses, and illegal occupation.

I have just as much opposition to them I must say, particularly China as I know more about that situation.
I would imagine however that Israel strikes a particular chord because unlike China or Russia, Israel's actions are publicly backed up and defended by many Western regimes including the US. Which means that on top of abuses, you have unbelievable double standards and hypocrisy.

Again I can't speak for anyone else, but nothing in this world pisses me off more than double standards. "It's ok for them to do it because they're on our side" is the most vile, disgusting and appalling political philosophy we have to put up with in the 21st century, and for governments such as the US to pontificate about crimes committed by their enemies while at the same time deliberately obstructing the rest of the world's attempts to penalize Israel's crimes strikes a raw nerve.

"We hold these truths to be self evident: That all men are created equal..." - apparently that should be amended to "We hold these truths to be self evident: that those we like have more rights than those we don't" - and that, in my opinion, is wrong on absolutely every possible level.

Ush1

The problem I have with that region is there so much propaganda and counter propaganda on both sides, sometimes it's difficult to see the wood for the trees.

the_syco

Calling someone "anti-semitic" because they are critical of the state of Israel is like the Shinners calling people critical of SF "west-brits".

KenSwee

Blisterman wrote: »

I don't see anyone protesting when China or Russia for example come to play, and they're equally if not more guilty of human rights abuses, and illegal occupation.

I couldn't agree more, 100 million deaths under their flags.

KenSwee

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Of course its not anti-Semitic to criticise the government or Defence Force of Israel. People who suggest that lose any bit of credibility they have, and are clearly not interested in having a reasoned debate. Its a cheap ploy to shut-down debate, as being called an anti-semite is one of the more reprehensible labels you can put on someone.

Now, that said, that is different to the argument where someone could question why there is a sizeable proportion of Ireland's left-wing elements, that are disproportionately interested in the affairs of Israel. Judging by the politics section of this site, you'd be forgiven for thinking its the only conflict going on in the world at the moment.

The conflict in Israel/Palestine is classified as a minor skirmish. There are far bloodier full out wars and insurgencies being fought the world over. The whole of North, and central Africa is practically in a constant state of conflict.
Russia has a decades long conflict going on in Chechnya, the list is incredibly long before you get down to the conflict in Israel.

I mean there were 12,000 civilian casualties in Burma last year!

Half a million people have died in the civil war in Somalia since 1991!

Then you have one of the more recent ones, such as the conflict which started in Mali last year. 3,500 people have died there. That should be of interest to Irish people given Ireland has a training team deployed there, yet it barely registers.

So, I can understand how Israelis might feel that there was a strange and disproportionate interest in their affairs from a lot of Irish people.

Again, I totally agree. The regions and countries you mentioned have a lot to answer for and when you look at the extreme exposure for two deaths caused by a bomb in Boston, yes you are totally right, nobody cares about these people. In the same week I was receiving pictures of candles for two dead in Boston on Facebook, over 100 men, women and children were killed in bombs in Iraq. The lack of exposure is a direct result of the media but I also agree that the information is there for people to look at if they want to.
I think the reason so many criticize Israel is that they claim to be a democratic state but it is clear that they are not. They are an apartheid style state in constant state of war. It's like what another poster said, they live by double standards and that pisses a lot of people off. No effort whatsoever is given in attempt to at least get on on a sporting or social level with the their neighbors. They are a member of the EBU, UEFA and I'm sure plenty more non Middle East organizations. I've no doubt they would join the EU if they got a chance. What they are trying to do is insert a European colony in the Middle East.
They commit acts of murder, sabotage, assassinations, kidnapping, fraud and store weapons of mass destruction. All of these actions are not the action of a democratic country and for those reasons, that's why I think a lot of people are against the regime in Jerusalem.

Rezident

I'm sure some of it sadly is but a lot of it is to do with things like settlers.

Grayson

Whoever you support in that conflict, you're being anti semitic. The Semetic races are the arabs and jews. So if you dislike either you can be called anti semitic.

On my part, I have loads of israeli friends. No palestinian ones though. And I think the israeli government are cnuts. I believe israel has every right to secure its borders and defend itself. I don't believe it has the right to take land or lock the palestinians away in areas like the westbank or the Gaza strip. Gaza is becoming more and more reminiscent of the Warsaw and Lodz ghetto's.

Madam_X

Grayson wrote: »

Whoever you support in that conflict, you're being anti semitic. The Semetic races are the arabs and jews.

But you can support a side without disliking the people of the other side though.

Grayson

Madam_X wrote: »

But you can support a side without disliking the people of the other side though.

Most people can. like the way most people are in favor of womens rights but don't hate men. But there are always a few on the fringes who will identify a whole gender, race, culture etc... as the enemy.

And there will be those that will say because you support feminism, you're a man hater. Or because you support palestinians you are a jew hater.

feargale

Blisterman wrote: »

I don't see anyone protesting when China or Russia for example come to play, and they're equally if not more guilty of human rights abuses, and illegal occupation.

Let me see now. Russia and China have an appalling human rights record, with buckets of blood on many hands. Therefore we should shut up about Israel/Palestine. A bit of a cop out, don't you think? There is nothing to stop any poster from opening a thread on human rights abuses in Russia or China. I suspect that it would be a very short thread because few would dispute the existence of such abuses. Most would see it as stating the obvious and probably wouldn't bother to post. And, I suspect that unlike Israel's friends there would be very few apologists for Russian and Chinese tyranny. So could we keep this thread on topic please?

Blisterman

feargale wrote: »

Let me see now. Russia and China have an appalling human rights record, with buckets of blood on many hands. Therefore we should shut up about Israel/Palestine. A bit of a cop out, don't you think? There is nothing to stop any poster from opening a thread on human rights abuses in Russia or China. I suspect that it would be a very short thread because few would dispute the existence of such abuses. Most would see it as stating the obvious and probably wouldn't bother to post. And, I suspect that unlike Israel's friends there would be very few apologists for Russian and Chinese tyranny. So could we keep this thread on topic please?

I'm not saying that at all. I'm just pointing out the fact that Israel gets a disproportionate amount of protests against it, as it's somewhat of a fashionable cause, just like Apartheid was in the 80's.

Obviously a person has to pick their battles. You can't be an activist every cause in the world, and Israel is certainly a worthy one. I just feel that things such as boycotting the israeli football team (which has several arabs on it, so its not directly comparable to the springboks), has a whiff of bandwagon jumping.

Yitzhak Rabin

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Of course its not anti-Semitic to criticise the government or Defence Force of Israel. People who suggest that lose any bit of credibility they have, and are clearly not interested in having a reasoned debate. Its a cheap ploy to shut-down debate, as being called an anti-semite is one of the more reprehensible labels you can put on someone.

Now, that said, that is different to the argument where someone could question why there is a sizeable proportion of Ireland's left-wing elements, that are disproportionately interested in the affairs of Israel. Judging by the politics section of this site, you'd be forgiven for thinking its the only conflict going on in the world at the moment.

The conflict in Israel/Palestine is classified as a minor skirmish. There are far bloodier full out wars and insurgencies being fought the world over. The whole of North, and central Africa is practically in a constant state of conflict.
Russia has a decades long conflict going on in Chechnya, the list is incredibly long before you get down to the conflict in Israel.

I mean there were 12,000 civilian casualties in Burma last year!

Half a million people have died in the civil war in Somalia since 1991!

Then you have one of the more recent ones, such as the conflict which started in Mali last year. 3,500 people have died there. That should be of interest to Irish people given Ireland has a training team deployed there, yet it barely registers.

So, I can understand how Israelis might feel that there was a strange and disproportionate interest in their affairs from a lot of Irish people.

I assume that the same logic follows the Americans and the rest of Europe being so interested but from the other direction? Or do people not mind so much when it's positive interest. (No need to answer that :pac: )

arybvtcw0eolkf

Online, no its rarely anti-semetic.. But in real life where people don't have to worry about being banned from internet discussion boards its (in my experience) very common.

hatrickpatrick

Blisterman wrote: »

I'm not saying that at all. I'm just pointing out the fact that Israel gets a disproportionate amount of protests against it, as it's somewhat of a fashionable cause, just like Apartheid was in the 80's.

Obviously a person has to pick their battles. You can't be an activist every cause in the world, and Israel is certainly a worthy one. I just feel that things such as boycotting the israeli football team (which has several arabs on it, so its not directly comparable to the springboks), has a whiff of bandwagon jumping.

As I said overleaf, China or Russia doesn't piss me off as much simply because the West doesn't defend or excuse their behavior while pretending to be all about peace and freedom.
I just can't stand the hypocrisy. Western governments should just come out and say it, "we don't care about anyone else, we only pretend to when it serves our own interests to do so".

hatrickpatrick

Kimora Orange Visitor wrote: »

Online, no its rarely anti-semetic.. But in real life where people don't have to worry about being banned from internet discussion boards its (in my experience) very common.

Example?