failure to display tax disk on my new car

Gosub

FFS this is rediculous! The fact that this wasn't dropped following the appeal is just stupid. It is all good at that time. The state has lost no funds as the car has been taxed for the period.

Now the case (should) go to court to be struck out (again, should). This will cost the state money: the judge's time along with the time for the Co. Co. representative, not to mention productivity lost while the worker bee - no disrespect intended - is away from the hive.

IMHO the deadbrain that refused the appeal should get a bill for the costs associated with his/her stupid decision.

I know that, technically, an offence was committed, but it is pure folly for the taxpayer to be lumbered with another cost, just because a public servant (I know!) can't be arsed to do the right thing.

Phew! That feels better.

jca

Gosub wrote: »

FFS this is rediculous! The fact that this wasn't dropped following the appeal is just stupid. It is all good at that time. The state has lost no funds as the car has been taxed for the period.

Now the case (should) go to court to be struck out (again, should). This will cost the state money: the judge's time along with the time for the Co. Co. representative, not to mention productivity lost while the worker bee - no disrespect intended - is away from the hive.

IMHO the deadbrain that refused the appeal should get a bill for the costs associated with his/her stupid decision.

I know that, technically, an offence was committed, but it is pure folly for the taxpayer to be lumbered with another cost, just because a public servant (I know!) can't be arsed to do the right thing.

Phew! That feels better.

Yesss finally a poster with some common sense. Would love to see the face on the deadbrain if they got landed with the bill....

maidhc

Gosub wrote: »

FFS this is rediculous! The fact that this wasn't dropped following the appeal is just stupid. It is all good at that time. The state has lost no funds as the car has been taxed for the period.

I once had an argument with Cork City like this:

1) Car parked in a public carpark with a residents permit.
2) Owner went away for a while. Tax expired in his absence.
3) Came back 1 month later
4) Busy warden had given him a fine for no tax every day for one whole month
5) Could not reason with Local Authority this was ridiculous.
6) Can't tell the end of the story!

Cheensbo

maidhc wrote: »

1) Car parked in a public carpark with a residents permit.
2) Owner went away for a while. Tax expired in his absence.
3) Came back 1 month later
4) Busy warden had given him a fine for no tax every day for one whole month
5) Could not reason with Local Authority this was ridiculous.
6) Can't tell the end of the story!

Finishing your anecdote without finishing it is like

monkeysnapper

I bought car and around 2 months later I got ticket for not having tax disk. I told traffic warden I'd just bought car and he said get disk and bring it into council office and ask them to make copy and ill squash ticket.
Plus I got stopped by cops around same time and they just said get disk , no big deal at all. I think op was very unlucky or I was just very lucky?

Wheelnut

Yakuza wrote: »

... it's because we're in a backwater sh1thole of a country that can't manage its way out of a wet paper bag, and where any real innovation is avoided like the plague, and the only changes to come about are meaningless twaddle (131/132 plates anyone???), brought around by ineptitude (120XXX plates for older imports) or downright stupid (the July '08 change in taxation basis which made a hames of the car market).

As an Irishman I think I am entitled to take offense at that post. So we have a lot of things wrong here but it's our country and it's the only one we've got. We are all entitled to criticise but other nationalities would not put up with that sort of abuse of their country so why should we? Yakuza is free to leave any time he wants to see if those faraway hills are really as green as he thinks. If he does not want to pay the travel tax he can drive across the border but he should watch out for the ANPR cameras.

Now back to the subject: Stoutykid: if your documents had only been posted to Shannon have you checked to see if you had actually been registered as the owner on the date of the offense? Your summons might not be valid at all.

Whatever the story, I think you should go to court if you can and bring your documents. I suspect that the judge will either dismiss the case or mitigate it down to something nominal.

Yakuza

Wheelnut wrote: »

As an Irishman I think I am entitled to take offense at that post. So we have a lot of things wrong here but it's our country and it's the only one we've got. We are all entitled to criticise but other nationalities would not put up with that sort of abuse of their country so why should we? Yakuza is free to leave any time he wants to see if those faraway hills are really as green as he thinks. If he does not want to pay the travel tax he can drive across the border but he should watch out for the ANPR cameras.

Hold your horses there, bud. It's my country too - I'm 100% Irish (and as such, perfectly entitled to have a moan about the bureaucracy encountered here), but have lived abroad in several different countries, and in my experience my interactions with public and private sector enterprises there just seemed to work more efficently. I'll admit my mini-rant was a bit wide-ranging in the context of an issue with a delayed motor tax disc, but I still think I have a valid point in highlighting the inertia in our public service (esp when it comes to the many ways the average motorist gets reamed here). I do not adopt a fatalistic "it's the only country we've got" approach; I engage with my local representatives to try and effect change.

No country is perfect, and I'm perfectly happy to live and bring my kids up here, but it doesn't mean I have to meekly accept the things I see as not right; in this case an unfair motor taxation system. You're offended by my criticism? Too bad.

OP, sorry for the derail, but I couldn't let that post go unchallenged.

brophs

jhegarty wrote: »

Tried that one myself.

They wouldn't take my money until the name change was complete.

I called the Carlow office a few weeks back and the woman I spoke to said she'd tax it without the name change going though first. In the end the dealer taxed it for me and it wasn't an issue, but it does seem that it just depends on where you go/who you speak to.

slimjimmc

Wheelnut wrote: »

Now back to the subject: Stoutykid: if your documents had only been posted to Shannon have you checked to see if you had actually been registered as the owner on the date of the offense? Your summons might not be valid at all.

Many dealers can register the change on ownership immediately on-line at https://www.motortrans.ie.
The OP become legally responsible for all traffic matters from the date on the signed change of ownership form. So, it doesn't matter if Shannon hadn't registered the change at the time of the offence he is still responsible and it doesn't invalidate the summons.

slimjimmc

jca wrote: »

You seem to be missing the posters point. 1) The tax office won't give you a tax disc for a car that has not yet been transferred to your name.
2) A car dealer cannot tax a car for you whether he's in limbo or not.
Because these situations are allowed to exist the op got fined. I'd go to court and explain my situation. Any reasonable judge would throw it out.

I'm not missing any point. The OP could have taxed the car before Shannon transferring it to his name as clearly stated on the Dept of Environ's website, and confirmed 'on the ground' by brophs.
http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/Renewal/

Renewing motor tax where there is:
a change in ownership, following completion/dispatch of the relevant change in ownership form, viz. RF200 (pre 1993 vehicles), vehicle licensing certificate (post 1993 vehicles) or vehicle registration certificate (post May 2004 vehicles)

The following are required to renew motor tax in these circumstances:

* Tax renewal Form RF100A available from Motor Tax Offices, Public Libraries and Garda Stations.
* Appropriate fee
* A certificate of roadworthiness /pass statement issued by an authorised tester for all goods vehicles/buses/coaches/ambulances one year old or over. Goods trailers having a design gross vehicle weight exceeding 3,500 kgs, one year old or over.
* A weight docket from an authorised weightbridge (only applies to a new owner of a goods vehicle)
* A goods declaration Form RF111a, available from Motor Tax Office (only applies to a light goods vehicle whose unladen weight does not exceed 1524 kg )
* PSV licence (only applies to small and large public service vehicles)
* Article 60 licence (only applies to school buses)
* A certificate of approval from the Revenue Commissioners for a disabled driver/passenger (only applies to an exempt vehicle)

OP, the council are giving you the option just pay the fixed penalty fine (€60?). If you go to court it'll be on the shaky premise that you had no way of taxing the car. The judge might be sympathetic anyway but if he is not you'll have a conviction against your name. By the time you factor in time off work and hiring a solicitor it'd probably be cheaper to accept the fine.

Oltian

my god some of the people on here arent actually human... its pricks like you that run this country and make everyone miserable!

by the way, there a slack when it comes to your situation from the Gards, but not from the council. if you were to be pulled over they would have allowed you 30 days to produce a tax disc. the council are another breed of koks altogether..

ironclaw

Oltian wrote: »

my god some of the people on here arent actually human... its pricks like you that run this country and make everyone miserable!

by the way, there a slack when it comes to your situation from the Gards, but not from the council. if you were to be pulled over they would have allowed you 30 days to produce a tax disc. the council are another breed of koks altogether..

Its an offense to drive without a valid tax disk on display and an offense to drive an un-taxed vehicle, in a public place. Its the law, its in black and white. Its not about ruining the country, its about following the law of the land. There is no leniency and rightly so, because honestly there is no excuse. Don't have the money? Don't drive. Unlike the NCT where it can be impossible to get a test date in time (Without ringing) where there is some room for Garda discretion, tax has none and frankly they should be doing more of it.

djimi

ironclaw wrote: »

Its an offense to drive without a valid tax disk on display and an offense to drive an un-taxed vehicle, in a public place. Its the law, its in black and white. Its not about ruining the country, its about following the law of the land. There is no leniency and rightly so, because honestly there is no excuse. Don't have the money? Don't drive. Unlike the NCT where it can be impossible to get a test date in time (Without ringing) where there is some room for Garda discretion, tax has none and frankly they should be doing more of it.

Go back and read the OP; in this instance they have a perfectly valid excuse in that they physically cannot tax the car without the logbook. Unless you believe that people should have to garage their new car until such time when Shannon get the finger out and sort their registration (which could be a number of weeks) then there isnt really much that can be done in this instance.

This case was one where a local council neglected to use an ounce of common sense and needlessly applied the letter of the law when there was very good grounds for an appeal to be upheld. The tax has been paid (presumably also covering December as this is when the car was bought), the OP is squared off and paid up to date in terms of motor tax, so it is utterly ridiculous that this appeal be denied. Shows how backwards this country can be sometimes.

pred racer

I know this is an old thread, but FYI I have been to court for this exact offence, the judge struck it out once it was clear that I taxed the car when I got the log book back.

Edit: I produced my insurance within 10 days of being stopped but still hadn't the log book at that stage.

I was chatting to the Garda who summonsed me outside the court, I told him I couldn't hang around as my first child was being born in Limerick (I was in roscrea) he gave me his name and number and told me if I got stopped for speeding (pre go safe and points) on the way down he would look after it for me:D

Oltian

djimi wrote: »

Go back and read the OP; in this instance they have a perfectly valid excuse in that they physically cannot tax the car without the logbook. Unless you believe that people should have to garage their new car until such time when Shannon get the finger out and sort their registration (which could be a number of weeks) then there isnt really much that can be done in this instance.

This case was one where a local council neglected to use an ounce of common sense and needlessly applied the letter of the law when there was very good grounds for an appeal to be upheld. The tax has been paid (presumably also covering December as this is when the car was bought), the OP is squared off and paid up to date in terms of motor tax, so it is utterly ridiculous that this appeal be denied. Shows how backwards this country can be sometimes.

I couldn't agreed with you more. But unfortunately we do live in a rip off republic, and its a matter of how much this government can screw you.

I had a similar incident to this about two years ago, and followed it through and went to court having proof the tax was paid and explained the situation to the judge, the judge saw no reason to prosecute as there was no possible way of you to pay the tax (due to the procedure in place)

You cant be expected to put your life or job on hold because the system can take 2 to 3 weeks to get you the log book back.

Carson10

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PrettyBoy

Council fine > straight in the bin

Council letter > straight in the bin

End of problem.

djimi

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Council fine > straight in the bin

Council letter > straight in the bin

End of problem.

You realise that council issued fines are real fines and dont go away, yeah?

PrettyBoy

djimi wrote: »

You realise that council issued fines are real fines and dont go away, yeah?

Just speaking from experience

In this particular case there's not a hope I'd be paying a fine for non-display, caused solely due to a fault with the system.

djimi

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Just speaking from experience

In this particular case there's not a hope I'd be paying a fine for non-display, caused solely due to a fault with the system.

The OP got a court summons for non-payment of the fine. Why do you think that ignoring it would make it go away? Daft advice. You might have gotten lucky, but council fines are fully legally enforceable and are in no way a legal grey area that can be ignored.

Im not saying that a judge will rule that the fine must be paid, but ignoring it is not the way to deal with it.

dr.fuzzenstein

djimi wrote: »

The OP got a court summons for non-payment of the fine. Why do you think that ignoring it would make it go away? Daft advice. You might have gotten lucky, but council fines are fully legally enforceable and are in no way a legal grey area that can be ignored.

Im not saying that a judge will rule that the fine must be paid, but ignoring it is not the way to deal with it.

It is if one desires a weekend stay in a state run hotel. :pac:
I hear the food is lousy and the other guests are best avoided...
Unless one belonged to a class of person that sees such a stay as an occasional inevitability.

biko

Old thread dug up for no good reason. And please mind the language.