Billionaires and Millionaires who keep welfare.

Omar187

Ok before anybody jumps in with "sure they're entitled to it". rubbish.
Bla Bla Bla so what.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-three-families-gave-child-benefit-back-to-state-29226572.html

It's no wonder why our country is in the toilet.

Your thoughts on this matter.?

Ice87

Omar187 wrote: »

Ok before anybody jumps in with "sure they're entitled to it". rubbish.
Bla Bla Bla so what.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-three-families-gave-child-benefit-back-to-state-29226572.html

It's no wonder why our country is in the toilet.

Your thoughts on this matter.?

Sure they're entitled to it.

Mr. Manager

Would it be possible to go one week without a dole thread? Fuck, even just a day would be good.

Valetta

How much tax do they pay?

Omar187

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Would it be possible to go one week without a dole thread? Fuck, even just a day would be good.

Em.? No

R0ot

If you earn more than 100k per year before tax then you shouldn't get Child Benefit. Having the ability to opt out means there is no reason for anyone to do it.

Omar187

Valetta wrote: »

How much tax do they pay?

Not enough.

returnNull

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Would it be possible to go one week without a dole thread? Fuck, even just a day would be good.

one dis-advantage about being on the dole,is reading about the fukking dole.

On the plus side,having read many replies on the topic in AH,it just re-affirms my belief that the majority of people are ar$eholes

Valetta

Omar187 wrote: »

Not enough.

Ah... so you actually know how much tax they pay.

That's cool. If you give us the figures then we can make our minds up if it's enough or not.

Valetta

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Would it be possible to go one week without a dole thread? Fuck, even just a day would be good.

You're the only one who mentioned the dole. :rolleyes:

Omar187

Valetta wrote: »

Ah... so you actually know how much tax they pay.

That's cool. If you give us the figures then we can make our minds up if it's enough or not.

What's paying tax got to do with Keeping welfare from a stone broke country when you have Millions or Billions.?
That's not cool.

Tiddlypeeps

Children's allowance is a neat way of dealing out tax relief for people who have children while at the same time helping out poor families with children.

They should probably separate them out into an actual tax relief system for those with children and just increase payments to people with children on welfare. Do away with the whole idea of children's allowance. That way in times of need the government can cut back on the tax relief without crippling the poor.

I'm not against the idea of giving tax relief to people for having children, they are raising tomorrows tax payers.

They pay massive amounts of tax.

Turtyturd

Bla, Bla, Bla....so what?

Skylinehead

Omar187 wrote: »

Not enough.

It's much, much more, both in real terms and proportionally, than you do. It's plenty enough.

Valetta

Omar187 wrote: »

What's paying tax got to do with Keeping welfare from a stone broke country when you have Millions or Billions.?
That's not cool.

It's got everything to do with it.

If someone pays €100,000 in taxes each year, and receives €3,120 (two children) in child benefit, that means they make a net contribution to the state of €96,880.

On what basis do you think that's not enough?

How much more do you think they should contribute?

PizzamanIRL

Greed is a terrible thing. Most people will jump at the chance of free money.

They probably think 'Ah sure, if I give back my benefits it won't have that much of an impact on the country'

awec

Child benefit needs overhauled in it's entirety. All of the rules, rates and eligibility needs looked at. There should be a limit on the number of kids you can claim for and if you want to have more kids than that then you can pay for them yourself.

I'd personally set the claim limit at 4.

cletus van damme

R0ot wrote: »

If you earn more than 100k per year before tax then you shouldn't get Child Benefit. Having the ability to opt out means there is no reason for anyone to do it.

Do you actually know what a person on 100 takes home?, they're well off but certainly not rich assuming they're supporting a family.
In a lot of cases the child payment is needed.

100k pre tax is just some mythical figure plucked out of the sky by the left.

Omar187

Turtyturd wrote: »

Bla, Bla, Bla....so what?

bla bla bla black sheep.?

Peanut2011

Omar187 wrote: »

Ok before anybody jumps in with "sure they're entitled to it". rubbish.
Bla Bla Bla so what.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-three-families-gave-child-benefit-back-to-state-29226572.html

It's no wonder why our country is in the toilet.

Your thoughts on this matter.?

Exactly the reason it should be means tested!

Triangla

All welfare should be means tested.

Even if you said that anyone with over €1 billion in the bank gets nothing.

At the moment it's crazy that the richest person in Ireland gets the same children's allowance as the poorest worker if they have the same amount of children.

Is the whole point of welfare to help the people that need the help?

the groutch

awec wrote: »

Child benefit needs overhauled in it's entirety. All of the rules, rates and eligibility needs looked at. There should be a limit on the number of kids you can claim for and if you want to have more kids than that then you can pay for them yourself.

I'd personally set the claim limit at 4.

+1, the system is fundamentally flawed when you're paid more for 4th and subsequent children.
surely one extra child when you already have 3 is going to have marginal extra expense.

seamus

The system is fundamentally flawed when you encourage people to have more children who can't afford to have them, by giving them handouts.

All applications for social assistance should be means tested, individualised on a needs basis and have to be reapplied for every year. None of this flat rate crap and just handing it out year after year, no questions asked.

Amirani

It's the State's responsibility to not just hand it out to everyone, regardless of their financial situation. There's no reason why people should bother going out of their way to send the money back.

Omar187

Valetta wrote: »

It's got everything to do with it.

If someone pays €100,000 in taxes each year, and receives €3,120 (two children) in child benefit, that means they make a net contribution to the state of €96,880.

On what basis do you think that's not enough?

How much more do you think they should contribute?

Well my philosophy is that the people who put our country in this mess are the so-called elite ie - Billionares and Millionares.
So they should pay more to try and fix this mess.
Because 100% the poor folks in our country who are struggling to make ends meet, did NOT put us in this mess.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Tiddlypeeps

Do you not have to apply for children's allowance in the first place?

Surely if you do that makes the figures in the article completely redundant. How many millionaires are there with children who never bothered applying for it in the first place?

It wasn't me!

Omar187 wrote: »

Well my philosophy is that the people who put our country in this mess are the so-called elite ie - Billionares and Millionares.
So they should pay more to try and fix this mess.
Because 100% the poor folks in our country who are struggling to make ends meet, did NOT put us in this mess.

Not ALL wealthy people contributed to the current situation, same as not ALL those who aren't wealthy are entirely innocent.

AlejandroKa

People should not be allowed to churn out kids if they can't afford them. Obviously this raises moral and ethical questions but it is a huge problem all over the world; people have kids when they can't afford them!

ScumLord

R0ot wrote: »

If you earn more than 100k per year before tax then you shouldn't get Child Benefit. Having the ability to opt out means there is no reason for anyone to do it.

I wonder what hoops you have to jump through to send it back? Dealing with the government for anything is a pain in the hole.

MurdyWurdy

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Do you not have to apply for children's allowance in the first place?

Surely if you do that makes the figures in the article completely redundant. How many millionaires are there with children who never bothered applying for it in the first place?

No, you get it automatically when you register the birth of your child.

Birth of your baby

If your baby is born in Ireland, when you register the birth of your baby the Department of Social Protection will begin a Child Benefit claim for your child.

If you are not claiming Child Benefit for another child a new claim is created by the Department and a partially completed claim form is sent to you for your signature and payment details. This form also includes information on how to claim for your new baby online. (Please note that you can only claim online if you are invited to do so by the Department.) The baby is also given a Personal Public Service (PPS) Number.
If you are claiming Child Benefit for another child, your new baby is added to your Child Benefit claim and payment begins automatically from the month after the birth. A letter confirming payment will be sent to you by the Department. The baby is also given a Personal Public Service (PPS) Number.

Presumably "giving it back" means asking social welfare to stop the claim.

2Mad2BeMad

their entitled to it


yes i said that to annoy the op

Tiddlypeeps

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

No, you get it automatically when you register the birth of your child.



Presumably "giving it back" means asking social welfare to stop the claim.

That's a bit of a stupid system.

Why don't they make it opt in instead. I'm sure there are plenty of rich people who wouldn't see it being worth their while applying for it.

I know if a couple of thousand a year was automatically put into my bank account I wouldn't go out of my way to stop it. But if I had to fill in a form to claim it in the first place then I might not be bothered if I don't need it.

ceadaoin.

Omar187 wrote: »

Well my philosophy is that the people who put our country in this mess are the so-called elite ie - Billionares and Millionares.
So they should pay more to try and fix this mess.
Because 100% the poor folks in our country who are struggling to make ends meet, did NOT put us in this mess.

All the article says is that there are 8 billionaires and 20,000 millionaires in this country. It doesn't say how many of them are actually receiving child benefit.

People that earn more are already paying more so whats the problem? Do you want them to hand over all their earnings? People taking out credit they couldn't afford to pay back contributed to 'this mess' and that includes people on all pay scales, not just the elite

ScumLord

ceadaoin. wrote: »

People that earn more are already paying more so whats the problem? Do you want them to hand over all their earnings? People taking out credit they couldn't afford to pay back contributed to 'this mess' and that includes people on all pay scales, not just the elite

There is work to be done in administering all that money, it's also a waste of time, sure the money will eventually end up back in the governments hands but it's still daft having money going around in circles like that because it's costing more money to move it around.

It's just inefficient and wasteful, but those are the only two things our government do well.

awec

Omar187 wrote: »

Well my philosophy is that the people who put our country in this mess are the so-called elite ie - Billionares and Millionares.
So they should pay more to try and fix this mess.
Because 100% the poor folks in our country who are struggling to make ends meet, did NOT put us in this mess.

Well that's not right.

How many "poor" people went out and bought ridiculous mortgages that they never should have even considered?

Chuck Stone

Valetta wrote: »

How much tax do they pay?

Irrelevant bollocks.

awec wrote: »

There should be a limit on the number of kids you can claim for and if you want to have more kids than that then you can pay for them yourself.

I'd personally set the claim limit at 4.

I'd suggest council houses should be no more than 3 bedrooms either except in exceptional circumstances. If you want more kids buy a big house or buy the council house and extend.

suicide_circus

seamus wrote: »

The system is fundamentally flawed when you encourage people to have more children who can't afford to have them, by giving them handouts.

All applications for social assistance should be means tested, individualised on a needs basis and have to be reapplied for every year. None of this flat rate crap and just handing it out year after year, no questions asked.

100%

MurdyWurdy

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

That's a bit of a stupid system.

Why don't they make it opt in instead. I'm sure there are plenty of rich people who wouldn't see it being worth their while applying for it.

I know if a couple of thousand a year was automatically put into my bank account I wouldn't go out of my way to stop it. But if I had to fill in a form to claim it in the first place then I might not be bothered if I don't need it.

well, it's handy for the majority of people who have babies and aren't millionaires and could do with the money. One less thing to do when you get home from the hospital and are like a zombie anyway. They send you a form and you sign it, as far as I know.

Celly Smunt

Remember when after hours used to be the fun part of boards?

melekalikimaka

high tax payers should recieve every benefit they are entitled to, they subsidies the bottoms feeders of society enough

bhamsteve

melekalikimaka wrote: »

bottoms feeders of society

And you are a Mod? Pathetic post.

Valetta

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Irrelevant bollocks.

I've already explained how it's relevant.

mathie

bhamsteve wrote: »

And you are a Mod? Pathetic post.

You're right. The correct term is parasites.

Freddy Smelly

if you win the lottery you will lose your benefit because the interest you would earn on your lotto winnings would exceed the threshold for being eligible to claim job seeker's allowance

bhamsteve

mathie wrote: »

You're right. The correct term is parasites.

Wow, the bitterness is strong. I hope it is not affecting your health

"Persistent bitterness may result in global feelings of anger and hostility that, when strong enough, could affect a person’s physical health. When harbored for a long time bitterness may forecast patterns of biological dysregulation (a physiological impairment that can affect metabolism, immune response or organ function) and physical disease."

Link

VinLieger

bhamsteve wrote: »

And you are a Mod? Pathetic post.

Lol, what cant mods express opinions too?

Ray Palmer

It is a simple tax relief system that is cheap to maintain. If they brought in means testing it would cost money to implement and manage. The saving would be eaten up pretty quickly defeating the whole point.

Why people who pay the most tax should be entitled to the least amount of benefits seems simply unfair to me.

The system as a whole is a problem. One year I paid more income taxes than I earned the year before. When the work dried up I was entitled to nothing but if I had earned less and stayed where I was I would have generated less income for the government but be entitled to more from the state.

mathie

bhamsteve wrote: »

Wow, the bitterness is strong. I hope it is not affecting your health

"Persistent bitterness may result in global feelings of anger and hostility that, when strong enough, could affect a person’s physical health. When harbored for a long time bitterness may forecast patterns of biological dysregulation (a physiological impairment that can affect metabolism, immune response or organ function) and physical disease."

Link

That might explain the chronic flatulence.

Chuck Stone

Valetta wrote: »

I've already explained how it's relevant.

This useless sound-bite? Lol, if that's what you call an explanation then you need to do a lot more thinking around the subject.

Valetta wrote: »

If someone pays €100,000 in taxes each year, and receives €3,120 (two children) in child benefit, that means they make a net contribution to the state of €96,880.

This completely ignores what they're earning, what they get out of the state and what proportion of their wealth they put back in.

How much more do you think they should contribute?

In proportion to their revenue or as Adam Smith (The Capitalists Fanboy's Oracle they know little about) says perhaps something greater.

"It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion"

Wealth of Nations

In simple terms; the more you have the more you are getting out of the system.