Barcelona vs Bayern Munich 2nd Leg (RTE2 and SS1) KO 7:45pm

Seaneh

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Em... you are aware of the difference between the State of Qatar and the Qatar Foundation, right?

Yes, one is a nation run by Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, the other is a propaganda vehicle he created the year he succeeded his father as head of state.

Either way, it's the money of the state of Qatar, coming directly from Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani which Barcelona are proudly wearing on their shirts.

Mars Bar

Discuss the game at hand or don't post. The Qatar and Milan talk stops here.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Seaneh wrote: »

Yes, one is a nation run by Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, the other is a propaganda vehicle he created the year he succeeded his father as head of state.

Either way, it's the money of the state of Qatar, coming directly from Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani which Barcelona are proudly wearing on their shirts.

So you're sayign that the Qatar Foundation penalises people with a setence of 5 years in jail for homosexuality and is run by a "totaliraian islamist monarch" (actually a woman - doesn't sound very totalitarian or islamic to me)...

... or does the idea that it's a front simply suit your anti-Barcleona argument better?

klose

Well that escalated quickly, i for, welcome our new munich overlords for the next few seasons, the current team has it all and will be strengthened again this summer. Scary prospect.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

klose wrote: »

Well that escalated quickly, i for, welcome our new munich overlords for the next few seasons, the current team has it all and will be strengthened again this summer. Scary prospect.

Been coming in fairness: they are the most consistant team in Europe over the last four years or so.

farna_boy

Andersonisgod wrote: »

They've never betrayed their philosophies on the pitch.

That's the point. It's a nation repressed, Barcelona are a representation the people of Catalunya can be proud of. They play for Spain, but of course they also play for Catalunya, each player being proud to do so.

Surely, if they are more than a (football) club, then they should not betray their philosophies on the pitch and most definitely not off the pitch either?

wandatowell

Delighted Barcelona got stamped on.

But they'll be back, no fear.

Muff_Daddy

Bayern, I don't feel, are being given the credit they deserve for what is an historic victory over a brilliant team. They were a joy to watch over the two legs, restricting the tika taca like no other team has, working for each other, attacking with purpose, and being deadly clinical in front of goal. I can hardly remember Neuer being troubled over the course of the two legs.

I don't want to rub Barca fanboys faces in it, but all I'm hearing from the media and some Barca fans is mourning the defeat of the 'mas que en club', how they'll be back, what they've done in the past etc etc, but lets give credit where credits due here.

Some Barca fans here haven't said so much as a single word complementing Bayern Munich, delicious irony considering they demand the affection of the footballing world for their special little club when they are the dominant force.

The_Kew_Tour

^^^^agree with that.

To beat a team with Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Villa and others 7-0 over 2 games is something else.

Best 2 teams in Europe are in the final. Cant say that often.

DaveyCakes

Andersonisgod wrote: »

They still have a variety of sports teams under the banner of the club. Their academy continues to produce great teams at youth level and continues to produce great players. The Barca way of playing has never stopped, it just needs to be reinvigorated in the players. The club still proudly represents a nation.

There's nothing unusual whatsoever about being a multi-sport club. Look at the teams who played in this year's basketball Euroleague...Panathinaikos, Fenerbahce, Maccabi Tel Aviv, Partizan Belgrade, CSKA Moscow.....
Dynamo Moscow have just won the Continental Hockey League
Bayern Munich have a chess team, Hamburg play darts, cricket, rugby, and about 20 other sports.

jmayo

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It's a big summer for Barcelona and that half only re-affirmed as such. Bartra is still young and his blooding into the first team hasn't been ideal but at the moment he looks out of his depth at this level. Song is average and not a Barcelona player while Fabregas has been poor, for the money Barcelona paid for him it is in big games like these where you expect him to make a difference but he hasn't.

Don't expect you can send the fookers back.
One of them has Barca DNA anyway and rather than complaining about the money you paid for him, you got the fooker at a knock down rate because of the whining some of your stars did about him returning to his Barca family. :mad::mad:

Bodhisopha wrote: »

This is not Guardiola's Barcelona, who were the best club side ever.

Ohh FFS.
Look up a bit of history.
I don't recall the best club sides of their generation folding in a quiet such a dramatical fashion.

ArielAtom wrote: »

Never thought I'd hear myself saying this, but fair play Eamo!!

They were embarrassed and basically humiliated no matter what dunphy, you or the other Barca fans claim.
Take it like a man/woman and move on.

kraggy wrote: »

Anyone else think the imbalance of the tv money in Spain means less and less competition for the top 2 as the other teams can't afford the players to keep up with them?

And it's showing it's effects now.

The other clubs, like Valencia or Deportivo that have tried to compete over the last decade or so have got into serious financial straits.

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I hate them because of their diving, surrounding the ref, trying to get players sent off, but most of all the disrespect they have showed to arsenal through the years, from their players and club, except pep, who always showed respect when the whole club was tapping up our players.

It was Nice to see Song doing well last night.

Lovely Bloke

It's absolutely bizarre the way Dunphy is wrong about most things, an uninformed buffoon most of the time.

Until he makes a point you agree with that is, then he is "talking sense" and "fair play to him".

Bizarre.

Bodhisopha

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

It's absolutely bizarre the way Dunphy is wrong about most things, an uninformed buffoon most of the time.

Until he makes a point you agree with that is, then he is "talking sense" and "fair play to him".

Bizarre.

That's not bizarre at all. That's not even remotely bizarre. That's called agreeing with someone.

jmayo

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It has a few different meanings. For a very long time they had no sponsors on their jersey. They still have UNICEF on their jersey. The club is more than just the soccer team.

But for me, it means that this is a club with principles. A club with beliefs, beliefs laid down by Johan Cruyff. A club with the greatest youth academy the world of football has ever known. A club who play a certain way, the Barca way, whose principles are represented anytime a team steps onto a pitch in the colours of the blaugrana. A club who represent a nation.

You do know that Barca had a long history before Cruyff arrived never mind took over ?
Are you saying they had no beliefs before him ?

You see I see a problem with some of those principles you laud.

For instance trying to get other players sent off, demanding bookings, turning the sprinklers on when another team wants to celebrate with their fans, trying to influence the players of other clubs to leave and publicly proclaiming it in the media to undermine the other club are not things I laud as being principled behaviour.
There are a fiar clubs through out the world who have represented oppressed peoples.
Hell people could say the same about Celtic who always represented the Catholic Irish in Scotland.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

They still have a variety of sports teams under the banner of the club. Their academy continues to produce great teams at youth level and continues to produce great players. The Barca way of playing has never stopped, it just needs to be reinvigorated in the players. The club still proudly represents a nation.

You do know about all the other sporting clubs under Bayerns remit ???
But I guess they are not "the club".

Lovely Bloke

Bodhisopha wrote: »

That's not bizarre at all. That's not even remotely bizarre. That's called agreeing with someone.

Agreeing with someone who is known to use the national station to troll and give ridiculous opinions on football every time he appears on the television.

You can't write off someone's credibility one week, and the next week claim to agree with him, just because what he's saying happens to be what you also think.

It means your opinion on that matter are the same as his, usually wrong.

Bodhisopha

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Agreeing with someone who is known to use the national station to troll and give ridiculous opinions on football every time he appears on the television.

You can't write off someone's credibility one week, and the next week claim to agree with him, just because what he's saying happens to be what you also think.

It means your opinion on that matter are the same as his, usually wrong.

You can't claim to agree with someone just because what they're saying happens to be what you also think?

Are you mental?

Cienciano

Have to admit, as a Juve fan, this Bayern/Barca result makes me feel a bit better after the quarters

SlickRic

Arsenal's 3-3 aggregate draw doesn't look so bad.

Red Crow

Where does the blame fall for this? This team looked unprepared, uninterested and lacked any tactical plan?

Where does the buck stop? Tito? The players? You really have to wonder why Messi was played at the weekend.

DaveyCakes

BATE Borisov are clearly the best team in Europe as they beat Bayern 3-1 in the group stage

Andersonisgod

jmayo wrote: »

You do know that Barca had a long history before Cruyff arrived never mind took over ?
Are you saying they had no beliefs before him ?

You see I see a problem with some of those principles you laud.

For instance trying to get other players sent off, demanding bookings, turning the sprinklers on when another team wants to celebrate with their fans, trying to influence the players of other clubs to leave and publicly proclaiming it in the media to undermine the other club are not things I laud as being principled behaviour.
There are a fiar clubs through out the world who have represented oppressed peoples.
Hell people could say the same about Celtic who always represented the Catholic Irish in Scotland.



You do know about all the other sporting clubs under Bayerns remit ???
But I guess they are not "the club".

Of course, however the birth of the modern Barcelona side, the principles of how they develop their youth and how Barcelona should always play come from the Cruyff era. These are the ideals that have carried on at the club to the present day, Guardiola, a disciple of Cruyff, added to this.

How often are their players kicked around the pitch? They are a small team, they need protection from referees and I think it is only fair that they look for this protection. Football is made for the skillful, not for the barbarian and it's important to remember that. Perhaps the grass needed watering? Didn't Reina, currently of Liverpool, help put that jersey on Cesc? He's a product of La Masia, a boyhood fan of Barcelona, whose idol was the coach of the team at the time, he didn't need a lot of influencing.

Then go and support Celtic, if that's what you believe in. Being an atheist I find the Celtic and Rangers rivalry to be a bit of a nonsense but each to their own.

Your Airbag

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Then go and support Celtic, if that's what you believe in. Being an atheist I find the Celtic and Rangers rivalry to be a bit of a nonsense but each to their own.

Cringe worthy on so many levels. First its a footballing rivalry just like Barca/Madrid. Secondly its two different clubs representing two different factions of a country, just like Barca/Madrid.

Both clubs are identified with opposing political & religious positions, for Celtic and rangers it catholic and protestant, then with Real Madrid representing spanish nationalism and Barcelona viewed as representing Catalanism.

To write off the old firm just because its not got the same level off football, players and media hype as El Clasico is one thing but to say you don't like its "nonsense" for non footballing reasons is silly. Especially when El CLasico is almost identical in term of "nonsense" and you are happy to adopt the "more than a club" aspect of that.

Way to take on board one set of politics because its got the prettier football and to disregard another communities struggles because its not as pretty in your eyes, labeling what is probably a more current and relevant sturggle to anyone in the UK and Ireland as nonsense.

These bandwagon supporters who have started to love Barca and the "philosophy"since Pep managed them and they started winning everything are a sickening brand of football fan if you ask me.

DaveyCakes

Andersonisgod wrote: »

How often are their players kicked around the pitch? They are a small team, they need protection from referees and I think it is only fair that they look for this protection. Football is made for the skillful, not for the barbarian and it's important to remember that. Perhaps the grass needed watering? Didn't Reina, currently of Liverpool, help put that jersey on Cesc? He's a product of La Masia, a boyhood fan of Barcelona, whose idol was the coach of the team at the time, he didn't need a lot of influencing.

They're entltled to the same level of protection from referees as any other team, no more, no less.

LuckyLloyd

Andersonisgod wrote: »

How often are their players kicked around the pitch? They are a small team, they need protection from referees and I think it is only fair that they look for this protection. Football is made for the skillful, not for the barbarian and it's important to remember that. Perhaps the grass needed watering? Didn't Reina, currently of Liverpool, help put that jersey on Cesc? He's a product of La Masia, a boyhood fan of Barcelona, whose idol was the coach of the team at the time, he didn't need a lot of influencing.

So small men need and deserve biased refereeing in their favour? Interesting.

Essien

Andersonisgod wrote: »

How often are their players kicked around the pitch? They are a small team, they need protection from referees and I think it is only fair that they look for this protection.

Tough sh1t. Get bigger players if it's such an issue.

jmayo

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Of course, however the birth of the modern Barcelona side, the principles of how they develop their youth and how Barcelona should always play come from the Cruyff era. These are the ideals that have carried on at the club to the present day, Guardiola, a disciple of Cruyff, added to this.

And where did Cruyff get those ideas ?
Where did the concept of total football, which Barca subscribes to with their drive that all players are skillful on the ball, come from ?
In fact you have previously tried to spin it that it is all Barca without mention of the precursors.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

How often are their players kicked around the pitch? They are a small team, they need protection from referees and I think it is only fair that they look for this protection. Football is made for the skillful, not for the barbarian and it's important to remember that.

Does looking for protection mean feigning injury on the ground until an opposing player is booked ?
I didn't realise that by being smaller you had different rules and could harry the ref to get what you wanted ?

BTW if you thought the modern team got a kicking you should have watched them when Maradona was with them.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Perhaps the grass needed watering?

Very smart.
Your comment says a lot about Barca's current crop of fans.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Didn't Reina, currently of Liverpool, help put that jersey on Cesc? He's a product of La Masia, a boyhood fan of Barcelona, whose idol was the coach of the team at the time, he didn't need a lot of influencing.

It didn't help that their players were basically mouthing off about it in public and almost making out that Arsenal and Wenger somehow had him as some sort of a slave that they were refusing to release.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Then go and support Celtic, if that's what you believe in.
Being an atheist I find the Celtic and Rangers rivalry to be a bit of a nonsense but each to their own.

Are you for real ?
You really have a superority complex going on.

So far in these threads I have seen you waffle on and basically you have in some form or other stated that other teams don't play the game right because they don't play "the right way" i.e. the Barca way, no team has ever made such a contribution to the game, no other club is the complete club, other teams don't deserve protection from the refs and Barca do because they are smaller more talented, and now one of the biggest football rivalries in the world is "a bit of nonsense".

And for your information I would bet most of the fans supporting Celtic or Rangers haven't seen the inside of any form of a church in years.
It may stem from religious and nationality beginnings, but it is now down to an intense rivalry if not hatred of "us and them".

Andersonisgod

Your Airbag wrote: »

Cringe worthy on so many levels. First its a footballing rivalry just like Barca/Madrid. Secondly its two different clubs representing two different factions of a country, just like Barca/Madrid.

Both clubs are identified with opposing political & religious positions, for Celtic and rangers it catholic and protestant, then with Real Madrid representing spanish nationalism and Barcelona viewed as representing Catalanism.

To write off the old firm just because its not got the same level off football, players and media hype as El Clasico is one thing but to say you don't like its "nonsense" for non footballing reasons is silly. Especially when El CLasico is almost identical in term of "nonsense" and you are happy to adopt the "more than a club" aspect of that.

Way to take on board one set of politics because its got the prettier football and to disregard another communities struggles because its not as pretty in your eyes, labeling what is probably a more current and relevant sturggle to anyone in the UK and Ireland as nonsense.

These bandwagon supporters who have started to love Barca and the "philosophy"since Pep managed them and they started winning everything are a sickening brand of football fan if you ask me.

One rivalry is based around a religious issue (which is something I don't believe in) the other is based around a nation being denied it's rights. One issue I care about, the other not so much. Who are you to tell me what I should and should not care about? I'm not saying, nor at any point have I said, everybody should disregard the old firm rivalry because it's religious overtures, personally I don't believe in religion and I don't watch Scottish football so I don't care the least bit about it. If you, or anybody else does that's absolutely fine, I don't, that's my choice.

Honestly, in this comment you come across like the 60 year old fella in the local pub watching Celtic playing whatever small Scottish team is still in the division and scowling at everybody else as they watch a game from a league where the standard is actually watchable. An Irish person doesn't care about Celtic, shock, horror! Ridiculous.

Andersonisgod

DaveyCakes wrote: »

They're entltled to the same level of protection from referees as any other team, no more, no less.

Yes they are, and they seek that protection. What's the problem with that? The laws of the game have been gradually altered to favour smaller, skillful players, this Barcelona team is the representation of that kind of player. It's only right that they come onto a pitch without being expected to take a kicking everytime.

Andersonisgod

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So small men need and deserve biased refereeing in their favour? Interesting.

As I said in the comment above, the protection of skillful players is a direction football has been going in for years. It's not biased officiating they want, it's simply the application of the rules.

btw apologies to the mods, I haven't a clue how you miulti-quote those I'm having to answer these individually.

Your Airbag

Andersonisgod wrote: »

1. One rivalry is based around a religious issue (which is something I don't believe in) the other is based around a nation being denied it's rights. 2. One issue I care about, the other not so much. Who are you to tell me what I should and should not care about? I'm not saying, nor at any point have I said, everybody should disregard the old firm rivalry because it's religious overtures, personally I don't believe in religion and I don't watch Scottish football so I don't care the least bit about it. If you, or anybody else does that's absolutely fine, I don't, that's my choice.

Honestly, 3. in this comment you come across like the 60 year old fella in the local pub watching Celtic playing whatever small Scottish team is still in the division and scowling at everybody else as they watch a game from a league where the standard is actually watchable. 4. An Irish person doesn't care about Celtic, shock, horror! Ridiculous.

1. Holy crap. Read that back to yourself and then think about it. If you are serious then its laughable. Yes Catholic vs Protestant. No denial of rights or human rights violations there at all.

2. Of course fell what you want. Adopt the more "worthy" struggle of Barca vs Madrid if you like. I have no doubt your felling of the worthiness of the cause is in direct correlation to Barca's on field success but when you call the other and almost identical situation nonsense know that there will be people offended and you will get called on it.

3. You sound like an ignorant bandwagoner.

4. Fine, adopt the Catalonia cause. I'm sure its so close to your heart, since it seems you judge a social and politcal causes worthiness based on the aesthetics of the football team associated with it. Oh dear

Andersonisgod

jmayo wrote: »

And where did Cruyff get those ideas ?
Where did the concept of total football, which Barca subscribes to with their drive that all players are skillful on the ball, come from ?
In fact you have previously tried to spin it that it is all Barca without mention of the precursors.



Does looking for protection mean feigning injury on the ground until an opposing player is booked ?
I didn't realise that by being smaller you had different rules and could harry the ref to get what you wanted ?

BTW if you thought the modern team got a kicking you should have watched them when Maradona was with them.



Very smart.
Your comment says a lot about Barca's current crop of fans.



It didn't help that their players were basically mouthing off about it in public and almost making out that Arsenal and Wenger somehow had him as some sort of a slave that they were refusing to release.



Are you for real ?
You really have a superority complex going on.

So far in these threads I have seen you waffle on and basically you have in some form or other stated that other teams don't play the game right because they don't play "the right way" i.e. the Barca way, no team has ever made such a contribution to the game, no other club is the complete club, other teams don't deserve protection from the refs and Barca do because they are smaller more talented, and now one of the biggest football rivalries in the world is "a bit of nonsense".

And for your information I would bet most of the fans supporting Celtic or Rangers haven't seen the inside of any form of a church in years.
It may stem from religious and nationality beginnings, but it is now down to an intense rivalry if not hatred of "us and them".

If I were to give credit to every person who contributed every small facet to Barcelona's game I would be here forever. Just read Jonathan Wilson's "Inverting the Pyramid" a terrific read on the development of football from beginning to present, it covers the Total Football era, with Rinus Michels and Johan Cruyff's contributions to that. If you want you can then delve deeper into Guardiola's contributions to Barcelona's legacy in Graham Hunter's "Barca, the making of the greatest team in the world" and Guillem Balague's "Pep Guardiola, another way of winning" both excellent reads, both enlightening.

I didn't realise Barcelona players were the only players to ever feign injury. In reality they do it no more, or no less, than any other team. As you will see from the comments above, I'm not saying that they are looking for biased officiating, rather they simply want the rules to be applied, rules which have been gradually altered to favour smaller, skillful players.

Maradona got a kicking, Barcelona deal with far better athletes than Maradona ever came up against.

Thank you, I try.

Please find me the quote where any Barcelona players called Fabregas a slave, or Wenger a slave owner. If no such quote exists, I suggest you stop fabricating such nonsense.

I am for real.

Now you are making things up. Point out where, at any point on this forum, I have ever said that no other team has ever contributed to football. Find that quote and I will never post again. I wish people would stop making up bizzare claims and then attributing them to me.

Look, if you want to watch the old firm go ahead. I'm not stopping you, go mad and watch a marathon of old firm games from down through the years, I dont care. I wont be watching them.

Andersonisgod

Your Airbag wrote: »

1. Holy crap. Read that back to yourself and then think about it. If you are serious then its laughable. Yes Catholic vs Protestant. No denial of rights or human rights violations there at all.

2. Of course fell what you want. Adopt the more "worthy" struggle of Barca vs Madrid if you like. I have no doubt your felling of the worthiness of the cause is in direct correlation to Barca's on field success but when you call the other and almost identical situation nonsense know that there will be people offended and you will get called on it.

3. You sound like an ignorant bandwagoner.

4. Fine, adopt the Catalonia cause. I'm sure its so close to your heart, since it seems you judge a social and politcal causes worthiness based on the aesthetics of the football team associated with it. Oh dear

Ok this thread has taken a weird turn and I'm not sure how comfortable anyone will be posting on it, reading it or whatever else. So I'm going to conclude the old firm portion of this thread with this message to clear it up.

Im an atheist, meaning I don't believe in God. That doesn't mean that I am ordering everybody not to believe in God, if you do believe in God that is fine, it's your right to believe in God and I am not trying to deny you or anybody else of that. That's the most important thing to clarify.

While the Old Firm rivarly is, largely, based around a religious conflict (or at least it's historical precedence is set in religious conflict) the Clasico is based around a political issue. Religion and politics do not go hand in hand, they are separate entities. I care about the political issue. I don't care about the religious issue because, once again, I am an atheist.

I don't care about the football aspect of the Old Firm because the standard of Scottish football is so poor. I care about the Clasico because I watch La Liga each week and it is the biggest game of the season, contested between two of the greatest clubs in the world.

So now I have explained why I don't care about the off field part of the old firm game and why I care about the off field part of the Clasico. I have also explained why I don't care about the on the field part of the Old Firm and why I care about the on the field part of the Clasico.

So that's that. I wont force you to watch the Clasico, I hope you wont force me to watch the Old Firm.

jmayo

Andersonisgod wrote: »

...

I didn't realise Barcelona players were the only players to ever feign injury. In
Maradona got a kicking, Barcelona deal with far better athletes than Maradona ever came up against.

Oh yes another of the ones that thinks Messi is God because shure weren't the great players years ago only playing against half fit eejits who couldn't run the length of the pitch.
Fooks sake I am surprised they lasted the 90 minutes and didn't all have to either stop for extra breaks or be hospitalised. :rolleyes:

You assume that everything this current Barca team has done is better, every opposition player they have faced is better, every match is harder, etc.
Football existed before and believe it or not there were some great footballers, some great matches and some great players.

The current players may be fitter and more athletic, but the guys that played years ago were a hell of a lot tougher and they could get away with sh** that today would be red cards and multiple match bans.
The likes of busquets would have reason to be lying on the ground.
If you want to go down the comparison route compare the tackles and see which were stiffer.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Please find me the quote where any Barcelona players called Fabregas a slave, or Wenger a slave owner. If no such quote exists, I suggest you stop fabricating such nonsense.

I am for real.

Now you are making things up. Point out where, at any point on this forum, I have ever said that no other team has ever contributed to football. Find that quote and I will never post again. I wish people would stop making up bizzare claims and then attributing them to me.

I wish I had the time, it would be worth it to stop you waffling about Barca.
You remind me of a lad in a college bar watching the 94 final between Barca and Milan.
That one guy actually managed to get most if not all of the neutrals screaming for Milan.
Hell even the few other Barca fans were embarassed.
I have rarely witnessed so many, who started off not caring who won, being so delighted watching some one getting a come uppance.

And BTW that was some Milan team from back to front.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Look, if you want to watch the old firm go ahead. I'm not stopping you, go mad and watch a marathon of old firm games from down through the years, I dont care. I wont be watching them.

I don't watch the old firm usually, but neither do I dismiss it out of hand.
I think the point some are trying to make to you is there are more rivalries than Real and Barca.
You appear to be dismissive of such because you think they are beneath you or because you appear to think they are based on some outmoded belief.
Dear God how relevant is the battle between fascists/royalists and republicans in modern day Spain and that is a major part of the basis of the intense rivarly between Real and Barca ?

smileyj1987

DaveyCakes wrote: »

There's nothing unusual whatsoever about being a multi-sport club. Look at the teams who played in this year's basketball Euroleague...Panathinaikos, Fenerbahce, Maccabi Tel Aviv, Partizan Belgrade, CSKA Moscow.....
Dynamo Moscow have just won the Continental Hockey League
Bayern Munich have a chess team, Hamburg play darts, cricket, rugby, and about 20 other sports.

But have they all got a roller hockey team ?

Andersonisgod

jmayo wrote: »

Oh yes another of the ones that thinks Messi is God because shure weren't the great players years ago only playing against half fit eejits who couldn't run the length of the pitch.
Fooks sake I am surprised they lasted the 90 minutes and didn't all have to either stop for extra breaks or be hospitalised. :rolleyes:

You assume that everything this current Barca team has done is better, every opposition player they have faced is better, every match is harder, etc.
Football existed before and believe it or not there were some great footballers, some great matches and some great players.

The current players may be fitter and more athletic, but the guys that played years ago were a hell of a lot tougher and they could get away with sh** that today would be red cards and multiple match bans.
The likes of busquets would have reason to be lying on the ground.
If you want to go down the comparison route compare the tackles and see which were stiffer.



I wish I had the time, it would be worth it to stop you waffling about Barca.
You remind me of a lad in a college bar watching the 94 final between Barca and Milan.
That one guy actually managed to get most if not all of the neutrals screaming for Milan.
Hell even the few other Barca fans were embarassed.
I have rarely witnessed so many, who started off not caring who won, being so delighted watching some one getting a come uppance.

And BTW that was some Milan team from back to front.



I don't watch the old firm usually, but neither do I dismiss it out of hand.
I think the point some are trying to make to you is there are more rivalries than Real and Barca.
You appear to be dismissive of such because you think they are beneath you or because you appear to think they are based on some outmoded belief.
Dear God how relevant is the battle between fascists/royalists and republicans in modern day Spain and that is a major part of the basis of the intense rivarly between Real and Barca ?

It's like you read my comments, attach a completely different meaning to them and then exaggerate this new meaning a hundred times over.

Are you really going to dispute that footballers are better athletes now than in Maradona's time? Have you heard any top players talk about their lifestyle in those days? It's not debatable, it's fact. Just like it's a fact that Maradona had less protection than Messi does, I'm not disputing that, I even acknowledged it in my last comment (which you appear to have conveniently missed). They both faced different challenges.

Again, where do I say that there were no great players or matches in the past? Seriously you need to stop attributing these ridiculous claims on me, I'm the logical one here.

Busquets could have played in any era, such is his quality, the man is an immense talent. Yes he probably would have had to cut out the playacting a bit more but his ability is beyond question, "the streetfighter" is an integral part of the set up of both club and country.

That's a really great story. It had a beginning, a middle and an end. It had a villain (the evil Barcelona fan), a baying crowd and a hero. With a couple of tweaks and a different setting you may have just verbally re-created Rocky IV

Once again, where have I said there aren't any rivalries other than Madrid vs Barcelona? I said I don't care about the Old Firm, that's as far as my dismissing has gone. There's the Milan derby, the Manchester derby, the Madrid derby, there's loads of derbies I watch and enjoy, please don't persecute me because the Old Firm isn't among them.

Given that the desire for Catalonian independence remains and still a hot issue in Spain I would say it is very relevant.

d22ontour

Andersonisgod wrote: »

A club with the greatest youth academy the world of football has ever known.

http://english.ajax.nl/Youth-Academy.htm says hello

GTFO if you think a few world class players in the last few years compares to anything that Ajax system has produced since the 70's ?, in fact La Masia hasn't done **** compared to their academy.

Amirani

DaveyCakes wrote: »

BATE Borisov are clearly the best team in Europe as they beat Bayern 3-1 in the group stage

We are the best: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish/2003/0723/174206-bohemians/

Andersonisgod

d22ontour wrote: »

http://english.ajax.nl/Youth-Academy.htm says hello

GTFO if you think a few world class players in the last few years compares to anything that Ajax system has produced since the 70's ?, in fact La Masia hasn't done **** compared to their academy.

Arguably the greatest player ever, Lionel Messi. Two of the greatest midfielders the world has ever seen Xavi Hernandez and Andres Iniesta. World cup winners Sergio Busquets, Carles Puyol, Gerard Piqué, Cesc Fabregas, Victor Valdes and Pedro. A new wave of stars like Jordi Alba, Thiago Alcantara, Christian Tello, Delofeu, Montoya,Marc Bartra ect. Other famous graduates, to name but a few, include Pep Guardiola (the very representation of La Masia in Cruyff's dream team) Guillermo Amor, Luis Milla, Pepe Reina, Mikel Arteta, Thiago Motta, Fernando Navarro, Sergi Barjuan and others.

The academy's ideals were heavily influenced by Cruyff so credit where it is due. However in terms of producing quality no academy rivals La Masia.

Red Crow

You can hardly say that the academy produced players like Pedro, Busquets, Puyol and many more kids who were poached from other academies in the surrounding areas like Tello, Jordi Alba, Fabregas, Iniesta etc.

Also Barcalona surround such a huge area in Spain that they have a vast array of talent to choose from in the area. It's no surprise that such talent has been through the academy in recent years.

Also Barca paid for Messi's hormone treatment. La Masia can hardly take all the credit for his success. The guy was known as a machine by the locals. Poor clubs just weren't able to pay for the treatment.

Andersonisgod

Eli Manning wrote: »

You can hardly say that the academy produced players like Pedro, Busquets, Puyol and many more kids who were poached from other academies in the surrounding areas like Tello, Jordi Alba, Fabregas, Iniesta etc.

Also Barcalona surround such a huge area in Spain that they have a vast array of talent to choose from in the area. It's no surprise that such talent has been through the academy in recent years.

Also Barca paid for Messi's hormone treatment. La Masia can hardly take all the credit for his success. The guy was known as a machine by the locals. Poor clubs just weren't able to pay for the treatment.

It really doesn't matter, they graduated from La Masia, even if they did not spend their while childhood at the academy. They learned to play the Barca way in their time at the academy, they learned what it means to be at Barcelona and what Barcelona stands for, they developed as players at La Masia.

Yes they do, I'm not disputing that. However it's all well and good being given talented kids, turning that potential into world class footballers is what this academy has done.

It's all well and good saying everybody knew Messi's talent but Barcelona had the faith in him to invest money in him. And again huge credit should be given to Barcelona for developing him as a player, in the ways of Barcelona, from a young age. How many kid phenoms have we heard of through the years who haven't made it, Freddy Adu for example. Messi received the best football education possible, he's learned to play the same way as his teammates, immersed in a philosophy and culture of Barcelona.

Arguing the merits of La Masia is ridiculous. The results are unquestionable.

Ryu Hayabusa

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The academy's ideals were heavily influenced by Cruyff so credit where it is due. However in terms of producing quality no academy rivals La Masia.

Compared to Ajax's academy, La masia is poop

Andersonisgod

Ryu Hayabusa wrote: »

Compared to Ajax's academy, La masia is poop

That's a statement, a meaningless phrase. La Masia has produced the vast majority of a Barcelona team that has been dominant in Europe for 5 years, the finest team of their generation. La Masia has produced many of the core players of Spain's success that has led then to 3 consecutive major trophies at international level, an accomplishment unmatched. Those are facts, you are simply spouting unsupported rhetoric.

Ryu Hayabusa

Andersonisgod wrote: »

That's a statement, a meaningless phrase. La Masia has produced the vast majority of a Barcelona team that has been dominant in Europe for 5 years, the finest team of their generation. La Masia has produced many of the core players of Spain's success that has led then to 3 consecutive major trophies at international level, an accomplishment unmatched. Those are facts, you are simply spouting unsupported rhetoric.

5 years is nothing compared to the long history of Ajax's academy of producing talent. One swallow doesn't make a summer

Andersonisgod

Ryu Hayabusa wrote: »

5 years is nothing compared to the long history of Ajax's academy of producing talent. One swallow doesn't make a summer

Then by all means name some players and teams their academy has produced and lets compare. Facts young man is what I'm looking for, facts!

Red Crow

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It really doesn't matter, they graduated from La Masia, even if they did not spend their while childhood at the academy. They learned to play the Barca way in their time at the academy, they learned what it means to be at Barcelona and what Barcelona stands for, they developed as players at La Masia.

Yes they do, I'm not disputing that. However it's all well and good being given talented kids, turning that potential into world class footballers is what this academy has done.

It's all well and good saying everybody knew Messi's talent but Barcelona had the faith in him to invest money in him. And again huge credit should be given to Barcelona for developing him as a player, in the ways of Barcelona, from a young age. How many kid phenoms have we heard of through the years who haven't made it, Freddy Adu for example. Messi received the best football education possible, he's learned to play the same way as his teammates, immersed in a philosophy and culture of Barcelona.

Arguing the merits of La Masia is ridiculous. The results are unquestionable.

Huge credit should be given to Barcelona but the academy's products are vastly exaggerated as most of the kids are already top talents in other academies and poached at a young age. Obviously this is fantastic work from Barca but its not rocket science to attempt to get the top talents at a young age from other academies.

English clubs aren't afforded the same luxury as the football net is much wider.

Andersonisgod

Eli Manning wrote: »

Huge credit should be given to Barcelona but the academy's products are vastly exaggerated as most of the kids are already top talents in other academies and poached at a young age. Obviously this is fantastic work from Barca but its not rocket science to attempt to get the top talents at a young age from other academies.

English clubs aren't afforded the same luxury as the football net is much wider.

It's they are poached at a young age and taught how to play a different way. They are given the opportunity to play with the underage teams, to learn about the clubs philosophy of the club. As I said, they do hold great sway in Catalonia but it's all well and good having great young talents, La Masia turns them into great players capable of playing for Barcelona.

DaveyCakes

All this talk about academies and Catalonia and atheism is getting away from the fact that Barcelona could still be playing today against Bayern and wouldn't have scored yet.

Andersonisgod

DaveyCakes wrote: »

All this talk about academies and Catalonia and atheism is getting away from the fact that Barcelona could still be playing today against Bayern and wouldn't have scored yet.

I'm not even sure how any of those subjects came up originally. Fair play to Bayern, the better side this season. I will say though, one season does not make a legacy.

Optimalprimerib

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'm not even sure how any of those subjects came up originally. Fair play to Bayern, the better side this season. I will say though, one season does not make a legacy.

This is the second season in a row Munich were in the final. This is a team well deserving of their position. Barca were definitely the team yo beat for the last few years, but this is the toughest competition in the world and no team is invincible contrary to what you want us to think. Munich did their homework and outright destroyed the barca way, the "total football" way and it was beautiful.

I have to admit I am a bandwagoner, but of a different style, I used to love Barcelona, but lately the superiority complex they and the fans seem to have has completely switched my opinion of them. You are not helping their cause with the absolutely blinkered defending you are doing of them. Their system, like every system in football is flawed and it was exploited, like munichs will be one day.

You lost this battle, get over it.

Bounty Hunter

DaveyCakes wrote: »

All this talk about academies and Catalonia and atheism is getting away from the fact that Barcelona could still be playing today against Bayern and wouldn't have scored yet.

not sure how exactly the thread spiraled onto those topics but they are blatantly off topic and thus this thread has ran its course...locked