Scam Artist Photographer

you*ess*bee

Wondering if anyone can offer some advice. I hired a 'professional' photographer for my sisters surprise 50th birthday. The pictures we got back were horrific. Blurred, heads cut off, backs of heads, etc. So my questions are:

1. What kind of come back do I have?
(I have already paid, and he is not answering calls, emails or texts)

2. How can I warn other people about not using him?

I am more than happy to share the photos he took to show the damage.

If I have posted in the wrong place, please feel free to move, mods. Thanks in advance.

pixbyjohn

Let us see a few photos so we can comment please

you*ess*bee

I uploaded about 10 of them to pix.ie
The link is:

http://pix.ie/usblonde

bigpink

How did you hire them?Recommended or seen other work?

humberklog

That's mental! Woooooohoooooo nuts!

Arrrrrrrrrrrrhshahahaha...

Ok, you are right the pix are beyond utter crap ( I kinda like'm:)) but did you really pay a professional? Does this Pro have a website?

The reason I ask is that they look like pics from someone with a camera that was asked to do some photos and was paid as opposed to someone that advertises that they do photos of events ( if you get my drift?).

Most pros have websites these days, could you provide a link to it? Or at least let us know how this...eh...photographer was hired in the first place?

Oh Lordy...

Hootanany

humberklog wrote: »

That's mental! Woooooohoooooo nuts!

Arrrrrrrrrrrrhshahahaha...

Ok, you are right the pix are beyond utter crap ( I kinda like'm:)) but did you really pay a professional? Does this Pro have a website?

The reason I ask is that they look like pics from someone with a camera that was asked to do some photos and was paid as opposed to someone that advertises that they do photos of events ( if you get my drift?).

Most pros have websites these days, could you provide a link to it? Or at least let us know how this...eh...photographer was hired in the first place?

Oh Lordy...

Did you pay him they are muck

humberklog

Hootanany wrote: »

Did you pay him they are muck

Huh? I think you quoted the wrong post? Maybe?

I've nothing to do with the pics or OP.

I wish I did!

you*ess*bee

He wasn't recommened, I had seen pictures on his website, which now I question if they were even his photos. His website is gone, I think he had a few, but the one I originally visited has been removed. On the night I explained exactly what I wanted, posed photos of everyone there, and the use of some birthday props I provided, plus a group shot of everyone. I paid him that night, and even gave him a tip. 2 days later at 11pm I heard something in the letterbox, and it was 2 cds with all the pictures, he hadn't bother to even ring the bell. I have emailed him, rang him, and texted him, he isn't replying to anything. I'm just so angry that we don't have any proper photos and that I trusted him as a professional to deliver.

humberklog

Where did you come across the website? Google? If so what did you type in?

I'm asking as it would be odd to have top of page on a Google search if you we're a scam artist.

humberklog

Also, how much did you pay?

It may sound a cheeky question but it is very important in order to contextualise the whole problem.

Oh and how far did the person who took the pics have to travel?

Price paid and distance traveled? Vital info.

you*ess*bee

I just googled 'dublin freelance photographers' and looked through some of the websites. I contacted a few different photographers, and told them what we needed and what our budget was, he agreed. He had a professional SLR camera, and seemed to be doing a good job throughout the night.

By scam artist I mean, he was advertising as being a professional, when in fact he was not. Just because you can push the button on a camera, does not make you a professional.

humberklog

you*ess*bee wrote: »

By scam artist I mean, he was advertising as being a professional, when in fact he was not. Just because you can push the button on a camera, does not make you a professional.

In fairness that's pretty well known on this forum, a lot of excellent pros on here.

Price and distance for job?

you*ess*bee

I honestly have no idea where he lives in Dublin, so couldn't tell you how far he had to drive. The party was on near Newlands Cross, so it could be anywhere from 5mins to 30mins depending on where he lives in Dublin. I'd prefer not to say how much I paid him. If he wasn't comfortable or confident in taking the pictures for that amount he should have said so, and I could have found someone else. Surely he wouldn't take bad pictures because he thought I was under paying him??

you*ess*bee

you*ess*bee wrote: »

Just because you can push the button on a camera, does not make you a professional.

A lesson a lot of people learn the hard way.

How much did you pay, out of curiousity? From reading between the lines, it seems you contacted a few and went with the cheapest option..?


EDIT:

you*ess*bee wrote: »

I'd prefer not to say how much I paid him.

Sorry, didn't see that part.

humberklog

you*ess*bee wrote: »

I honestly have no idea where he lives in Dublin, so couldn't tell you how far he had to drive. The party was on near Newlands Cross, so it could be anywhere from 5mins to 30mins depending on where he lives in Dublin. I'd prefer not to say how much I paid him. If he wasn't comfortable or confident in taking the pictures for that amount he should have said so, and I could have found someone else. Surely he wouldn't take bad pictures because he thought I was under paying him??

But if you bought a milky moo ice pop for 25p and tried to compare it to a Magnum for 2.50p it wouldn't be right.

This forum is informed and helpful, without knowing the price paid it is impossible to say if you did not get value for money.

Price in this (your thread) is vital.

you*ess*bee

KKV, yes we went with the cheapest option, as we were on a tight budget. I'd rather not say how much it was, but maybe that was the factor as to why the pictures were so bad. We paid 120 euro for 2 hours.

humberklog

That's a lot of sponds for the back of heads. Maybe not a lot for a pro photographer but everyone's on budget these days so I can see where you're coming from.

I hope you understand why it was important to know and sorry for having to ask.

Did you get to know his real name? (Don't put it up here though).

you*ess*bee

you*ess*bee wrote: »

KKV, yes we went with the cheapest option, as we were on a tight budget. I'd rather not say how much it was, but maybe that was the factor as to why the pictures were so bad. We paid 120 euro for 2 hours.

That's not cheap at all. Small claims court straight away!

you*ess*bee

Yes, I have his name, email and mobile number. I thought maybe he had done it out of spite if I had underpaid him. I have no idea what the average rate is for a photographer.

humberklog

you*ess*bee wrote: »

Yes, I have his name, email and mobile number. I thought maybe he had done it out of spite if I had underpaid him. I have no idea what the average rate is for a photographer.

Look for a receipt and document your request.

Borderfox

Its money paid and a very very poor effort

you*ess*bee

Okay, thanks for the tips guys. I wasn't sure what to do, or what could be done.

I will look into what I can do with only his name, email and phone number. I don't have an address or a VAT number, as we didn't get a receipt. Or is that normal in photography?

you*ess*bee

you*ess*bee wrote: »

Yes, I have his name, email and mobile number. I thought maybe he had done it out of spite if I had underpaid him. I have no idea what the average rate is for a photographer.

I wouldn't consider that underpaid at all.

Overpaid more like it. He clearly charged you about €50 per hour (taking into account time spent delivering photos, talking to you beforehand etc.).

When I do an event (or any job) I generally tend to spend the same amount of time at the PC as I did actually taking the photos (hence I'd never do a 2 hour party). This guys seems to have done no editing at all and made no effort whatsoever to put his hands up and take it on the chin (he obviously knows he made a mess of it).

If that were me it'd be an instant refund, grovelling apology and a voucher for something. I'd imagine the majority of pros out there would have a similar approach.


Can you give us his website? Even if it's down, Google can sometimes get pages off it (so you can take screen-prints of the other work he showed off on the site). If you do end up at the small claims court it will help you out (or as humberklog said above, if you really want to give him a knockout blow, contact Revenue).

Definitely don't settle for what you've been given.

you*ess*bee

you*ess*bee wrote: »

Okay, thanks for the tips guys. I wasn't sure what to do, or what could be done.

I will look into what I can do with only his name, email and phone number. I don't have an address or a VAT number, as we didn't get a receipt. Or is that normal in photography?

Well I'm a pro and I never give a receipt (unless one is asked for), though I do tend to invoice when it comes to companies, etc. but obviously this doesn't apply for you.

I doubt you'll be getting a VAT number either way (I do okay from photography, but not well enough to justify registering for VAT). I'd guess the best thing you can do is get a friend to contact him. Arrange to meet him to discuss a wedding or something and offer to meet at his house?

Or tell him you're looking for a very particular style of photo or such and want to post him something. I'm not sure the easiest way to get an address to be honest (unless he was foolish enough to put himself on Google Maps/Earth?) but I reckon if you asked indirectly he might not realise what's happening and will blurt it out?


EDIT: Website aside, does he have a Facebook page? Most people have an "XYZ Photography" page.

dirtyghettokid

pity there weren't more details in the exif

Camera Make Canon
Camera Model Canon EOS 50D
Exposure 0.01667 sec (1/60)
F-Number f4
Focal Length 20 mm
Exposure Bias 0
Orientation 1
X Resolution 72 dpi
Y Resolution 72 dpi
Date and Time (Original) 2013:04:27 20:59:37
Date and Time (Digitized) 2013:04:27 20:59:37
Flash Flash fired, compulsory flash mode
Artist Photographer:
Metering Mode Pattern
Image Width 4752 pixels
Image Height 3168 pixels
Date Time 2013:04:27 20:59:37
ColorSpace default
YCbCr Coefficients 0.2990.5870.114
YCbCr Positioning 2
Copyright Copyright:
ISO Speed ISO-800
Aperture 4
Shutter Speed 6
White Point 0.3130.329

Kenny Logins

Google cache will have a snapshot (sorry) of the website, and you'll easily be able to tell if the portfolio photos were his own.

Whois might give some contact details, unless he opted for domain privacy.

brokenarms

Feckin hell. I could have done better than that . With an I phone.

I think your in the right place now. The hunt is on .....

Kenny Logins

BTW, were there any good shots? How many in total?

Ben D Bus

You could try a whois search of his website if it was his own domain name, even if it's been taken down now. He may have left the address the addy is registered at visible.

dinneenp

Kenny Logins wrote: »

BTW, were there any good shots? How many in total?

I was wondering that too.
Also do the good photos (if any) look like they had any post processing work- straightened etc. & did he have an external flash or just use the built in one?

Corkbah

OP ... bit off topic ...but why didn't you come to boards to ask for recommendations first ? instead of coming on here to complain !

We have had a number of "how much should I charge?" threads so its possible that your "professional" might be on boards....and one of the recent ones that come to mind involve a €60 an hour reply. :eek::eek:

Best of luck finding the person - it might also be worth sending the details onto revenue, if this person is not a professional but claiming to be professional and not declaring the income properly revenue will get their money and hopefully stop the person operating unless they are legit....no harm in contacting them and explaining what happened and say you believe this person may be charging other people and may be avoiding paying revenue their money.

This sort of photographer ruins it for semi-professional (part-time) and professional photographers and the quicker they are blacklisted the better the reputation of all photographers (we usually all get tarred with the same brush)

Kenny Logins

I've just had a look at some of his other photos (from a similar event and location) and they looked fine to me. Not sure what went wrong here... Do you have any good photos?

Splinters

No doubt they are awful. Most guests with their point and shoots would have been able to get better, quite a lot better really.

I don't think you have any real come back short of just naming and shaming the guy. If no contract was signed then the basics of a legally binding verbal contract still apply, and unfortunately for you were also fulfilled. As in, you paid him to take photos of the event and you received photos of the event. If contracts were in place there could have been some clause to cover unsatisfactory standards.

In normal circumstances I probably would have gone on a "you get what you pay for" type rant but it does seem in this case genuinely you were duped. It seems hard to imagine how anyone who could take such a poor standard of photo could possibly have passed themselves off as a photographer so perhaps the images from his website were stolen from another site. You can't be blamed for that.

It serves no purpose now but for what its worth if you had posted on here looking for a photographer, you'd have got quite a few replies from photographers with long standing histories on here, who've posted hundreds of photos and would typically be able to provide plenty of references if requested.

Its an unfortunate situation but for what its worth don't let this be the lasting memory of the party. I do firmly believe you should name and shame him though as it might save other people going through similar experiences with him.

pullandbang

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I've just had a look at some of his other photos (from a similar event and location)

How did you manage that? Linky?

pullandbang

Op has shown 10 awful photos. Surely the photographer supplied more than 10 so can we see a few more? Maybe show some of the ones you were happy with (if any).

belcampprisoner

small claims court

condra

belcampprisoner wrote: »

small claims court

He charged for photography. He took photos and delivered them.
Unless you can prove that his portfolio contained photos that were not his own work, I can't see you winning that case.

What a scoundrel though. Those photos are horriffic!

OP I feel sorry for you, but you hired a cowboy. Just like with any other service, when you look for the cheapest you can find, there are a lot of cowboys.

dazftw

Bet ya he had a facebook page :pac:

Corkbah

dazftw wrote: »

Bet ya he had a facebook page :pac:

a facebook page and a facebook photography page

JustAThought

condra wrote: »

He charged for photography. He took photos and delivered them.
Unless you can prove that his portfolio contained photos that were not his own work, I can't see you winning that case.

What a scoundrel though. Those photos are horriffic!

OP I feel sorry for you, but you hired a cowboy. Just like with any other service, when you look for the cheapest you can find, there are a lot of cowboys.

Not correct - the services have to be honest , true , fit for purpose and as described. No small claims court will uphold this rubbish & posting this to put off the OP is very mean spirited - sour grapes?
OP a few suggestions - follow up on the suggestion re Google & the website. Either way you have the rubbish images & CD's a proof he existed - perhaps also someone who can verify that he/she existed, receptionist at hotel who you asked to let him into venue /emails/ bills for your phone loggging calls to his phone to organise & give directions etc. And the phone bills logging attempts to contact him - all v useful for a small claims case.

I would also report him to revenue - and ask them to investigate a company not giving receipts - did he charge you for VAT - if so all the more reason to get them involved . That will focus him where it hurts - his pocket.

Shocking thing to happen. I'd be posting a link to his website to warn others & save them the issues you've been having. I'd also be listing in a more wider read forum - let more people know.

Sorry for your problems : ( its a fair bit if cash to be scammed with rubbish substandard services not to mention the opportunity cost & disappointment.

The agreement/contract was for professional standard family & friend shots of a special celebration. Whether you paid e50 an hour or e10 an hour you should not have been delivered this rubbish & left with the anger, stress & upset caused by their unprofessional " service" and substandard work .

: (

Kenny Logins

belcampprisoner wrote: »

small claims court

Big boards court. :pac:

There are at least 178 photos, going by the serial numbers, and (so far) 10 really bad ones.

I'm not convinced yet... 2 CDs? How many (jpeg) photos in total?

condra

JustAThought wrote: »

posting this to put off the OP..

I posted it to "put off the OP" in the same way you posted your last comment to import cashmere from Mongolia.

...is very mean spirited -

I'm not mean spirited at all. How mean spiritied of you to accuse me of being mean spirited.

sour grapes?

No. What is your problem?

I posted my objective opinion of the situation, i.e. that it could be a waste of time persuing legal action. Nothing more, nothing less. No mean spirits. No sour grapes. I have the OPs best interests in mind. So chill with the virtual finger pointing.

Ash.J.Williams

jeeaysus...he didn't even attempt to make an effort

humberklog

Could it be the case that the photographer might have saved all the pics taken on the night onto the cd by mistake and not just the intended edited selection of pics only?

The pictures are too bizarre, I just can't imagine them being intended for inclusion in edited selection.

Kenny Logins

We could just keep making stuff up here. No OP and no photographer to defend himself...

OP "How many photos did you take on the night?"

Tog "About 200, but that will be edited down to 40 or so."

OP "I paid you, and I want ALL of the photos. They're mine."

Tog "No, sorry, some are.."

OP "I paid you, I want all of them".

Tog ".but.."

OP "ALL YOUR PHOTOS ARE BELONG TO US!".

humberklog

Kenny Logins wrote: »

We could just keep making stuff up here. No OP and no photographer to defend himself...

See now here's what I was thinking- the photographer's a Boardsie!

And there's some subleties afoot.

ShaneWalshEire

Some great shots there, you got your moneys worth!

Daveysil15

That's a bit strange the way he droped the cd in your letterbox and then fecked off. Definitely dodgy. TBH I rarely see good photos when it comes to indoor events like that. That lighting is terrible. It's better to get a friend to take the photos with their phone.

the_monkey

Maybe he's some kind of new breakthrough trendsetting photographer ?



Just look at the contrast between the black and white there, and that "happy birthday sign" - I like the way he's cut it ... trying to make it look amateur - genius



It's like bad acting, a really good actor can act ´bad acting´ - if you know what i mean ! ..

OP I think €120 is a bargain, these bad boys could be worth a FORTUNE when this guy breaks into the Pulitzer prize winning photo realm.

ImagenEstilo

Is this photographer guy not just taking the p1ss?

S/He has got to be. How can anyone possibly think of delivering photos like that to a client.

I've not read all 4 pages of the thread but I think as someone previous pointed out, this guy must have his website active for a while if he is appearing in the first say 5 pages of Google for those keywords mentioned. You don't just land on Google, especially where competition is high.

Also, Google will still retain copies of pages/site even if it has been removed. Site owners sill recognise this when they get broken URLs that actually are not broken at all.

I genuinely cannot get over this. They are the worst photos I have ever seen that were created by a so-called professional, so bad that it just seems to me like a prank.

Wabbit Ears

Kenny Logins wrote: »

We could just keep making stuff up here. No OP and no photographer to defend himself...

OP "How many photos did you take on the night?"

Tog "About 200, but that will be edited down to 40 or so."

OP "I paid you, and I want ALL of the photos. They're mine."

Tog "No, sorry, some are.."

OP "I paid you, I want all of them".

Tog ".but.."

OP "ALL YOUR PHOTOS ARE BELONG TO US!".

I actually think this is EXACTLY what happened. My wife is semi pro and would never hand over 200 shots from a 2 hr session. The good shots would be processed and handed over and the rest discarded. If any client got ALL the photos they would be WTF, I gots me ripped off by a scam artist, loads of these are cr@p!!!11eleven!!one!

Every shoot of a crowd indoors has these types of shots, its just bewildering why the photographer didnt delete them as that's the first thing that we do after a shoot.

If the OP got 20 good pics then she got her moneys worth IMHO.