Trains now even more expensive!! (Note mod warning post #23)

bk

April O Neill wrote: »

My understanding has always been that there are a certain amount of seats at the lower prices and when they're booked up, you have to pay the higher price. There are some cheap seats on peak time trains, but seemingly less than on off-peak ones.

April, the directions you are showing are wrong, the peak demand on these days would be from Dublin to Cork on the Friday and Cork to Dublin on the Sunday. You have it the other way around. Reverse the direction and you will see what I mean.

I'm afraid you are also wrong about how the booking system works, this is precisely the situation:

- Up until a year ago, for about two years, Irish Rail operated an airline like yield management system like you describe. They had a few cheap €10 tickets on each train that you might get if you booked early enough (about a month in advance) but they would be quickly get more expensive the closer the departure date came.

- Then about a year ago they scrapped this yield management system and replaced it with a system where if you booked 3 days in advance, you could get a €20 single ticket to Cork (€43 return including booking fees). When the train was or how busy it was had no effect on the ticket price, it was always the same price, as long as you booked 3 days in advance. If you booked after 3 days it did get more expensive.

- In the last two months they have now changed this system in two important ways:
1) To get "cheaper" tickets you now have to book 7 days in advance, not 3.
2) Even if you book more then 7 days in advance, even if you book a month in advance, you can't get cheap tickets at all on any trains that operate at busy times (e.g. Dublin to Cork on a Friday between 3 and 7 inclusive).

Hilly Bill

To be fair BK, €32.99 to go to Cork is decent enough.

bk

Hilly Bill wrote: »

To be fair BK, €32.99 to go to Cork is decent enough.

€69 return including booking fees, no it isn't

Hilly Bill

I didnt say return did i. If you start multiplying then of course its going to be dearer.

bk

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I didnt say return did i. If you start multiplying then of course its going to be dearer.

You didn't specify either in your post, I was clarifying your post in case anyone thought it was a return.

Well if you want to talk just single, it works out at €36 including booking fees.

Compared to €9 single on Aircoach, that is 4 times more expensive! I consider that pretty expensive.

foggy_lad

bk wrote: »

You didn't specify either in your post, I was clarifying your post in case anyone thought it was a return.

Well if you want to talk just single, it works out at €36 including booking fees.

Compared to €9 single on Aircoach, that is 4 times more expensive! I consider that pretty expensive.

Also add €1.60 single if you want to go to the City centre by bus or luas.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

You didn't specify either in your post, I was clarifying your post in case anyone thought it was a return.

Well if you want to talk just single, it works out at €36 including booking fees.

Compared to €9 single on Aircoach, that is 4 times more expensive! I consider that pretty expensive.

I did specify. I said dublin to cork.How could anyone think otherwise?.

bk

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I did specify. I said dublin to cork.How could anyone think otherwise?.

When people say something like Dublin to cork, they often mean a return ticket. Few people get a one way ticket and never return, so when people talk about intercity tickets like these, they normally mean a return, so I was clarifying it.

And what does it matter, my clarification was 100% factually correct. Your quote wasn't correct as it didn't include the online booking fees.

Either way 4 times more expensive is not good value for money, not at all.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

When people say something like Dublin to cork, they often mean a return ticket. Few people get a one way ticket and never return, so when people talk about intercity tickets like these, they normally mean a return, so I was clarifying it.

And what does it matter, my clarification was 100% factually correct. Your quote wasn't correct as it didn't include the online booking fees.

Either way 4 times more expensive is not good value for money, not at all.

When someone says Dublin to Cork return, THEN they mean return. I quoted the single fare so i seriously cant see how you can be confused.
You only have to clarify your own posts and not someone elses.

bk

And as I clarified and I will repeat again:

Single fare on the train €36 including booking fees

Single fare on the bus €9 including booking fees

Train four times more expensive, so to answer your question in the original post, no the train isn't "decent enough".

Richard Logue

Of course the single fare is €19.99 if booked in advance

bk

Richard Logue wrote: »

Of course the single fare is €19.99 if booked in advance

No it isn't, first of all your not including the €3 worth of booking fees.

Plus you are also ignoring certain peak time trains (e.g. Dublin to Cork on a Friday between 3 and 7pm inclusive) have no such reduced fares, it is ALWAYS €36 single including booking fees even if booked in advance.

Richard Logue

Can you tell me if it costs that much at 5pm on a Wednesday?

Con Logue

Richard Logue wrote: »

Of course the single fare is €19.99 if booked in advance

Could you repeat that again, I didn't hear you the first time.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

And as I clarified and I will repeat again:

Single fare on the train €36 including booking fees

Single fare on the bus €9 including booking fees

Train four times more expensive, so to answer your question in the original post, no the train isn't "decent enough".

Let me clarify, that €36 is inclusive of the €2 credit card fee and €1 transaction fee.
Walk up fare is €62.
€36 on line fare to travel from Dublin to Cork is decent enough in my opinion.
How is €36 more expensive than €62?
The fares are dearer than 10 years ago so of course the trains and now more expensive.
I know the bus is cheaper, but the thread was about the train fare not the comparison between the bus and train fare. Walking is cheaper than the bus, it will take you longer but its still cheaper so is cycling, train is cheaper than taxi, it all goes without saying.

bk

Richard Logue wrote: »

Can you tell me if it costs that much at 4pm on a Wednesday?

Yes it does, easily checked online.

Wednesday 22nd of May 4pm Dublin to Cork Single: €36
Wednesday 29th of May 4pm Dublin to Cork Single: €36
Wednesday 26th of June 4pm Dublin to Cork Single: €36

Question answered?

Richard Logue

I think for the sake of clarity the €32.99 fare bk keeps on quoting applies on peak time trains only.

From Dublin the peak fare is applied for the 4pm departure Mondays - Thursdays only and for the 1pm, and 3pm to 7pm departures.

Even on Fridays it's possible to get the €19.99 fare each way if the off peak trains are booked.

I'm happy to repeat this message again and again if necessary.

Richard Logue

bk wrote: »

Yes it does, easily checked online.

Wednesday 22nd of May 4pm Dublin to Cork Single: €36
Wednesday 29th of May 4pm Dublin to Cork Single: €36
Wednesday 26th of June 4pm Dublin to Cork Single: €36

Question answered?

Ok thanks for that public service announcement. Now how about 5pm on Wednesdays?

bk

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Let me clarify, that €36 is inclusive of the €2 credit card fee and €1 transaction fee.

Yes, which you have to pay, but don't have to pay when booking online for the bus. Somehow despite much cheaper tickets, the bus companies don't need to make these charges.

Just more nickel and dimming of their passengers by Irish Rail

Hilly Bill wrote: »

€36 on line fare to travel from Dublin to Cork is decent enough in my opinion.
How is €36 more expensive than €62?

Ignoring the buses for the moment and focusing on the trains only, it is a doubling of the fare (from €23) for the same journey and time from just two months ago.

So no that isn't "decent", Irish Rail have doubled the prices.

bk

Richard Logue wrote: »

Ok thanks for that public service announcement. Now how about 5pm on Wednesdays?

Did someone pick the wrong time in trying to make their point?!!

Now how about 3pm or 7pm on a Friday?

Or 6 or 7am ex-Cork any day for the next 2 months?

Or at any time next Tuesday?

Answer: €36

The point is that Irish Rail have doubled the fare for all of these peak journey times from where they were just two months ago. Two months ago the exact same journeys at the exact same time cost €23, they now cost double that.

Richard Logue

You aren't answering the question bk, 5pm on Wednesdays single to Cork booked at least a week in advance. How much?

oppenheimer1

BK, I think you're missing the point of what reduced fares are meant to achieve for the operator. A strong reason for them is to incentivise travel on the less used services in order to balance loadings. If IE know that the Friday evening Cork train is going to be full regardless of what price they charge, it makes absolute sense to extract the maximum amount that customers are willing to pay. What they hope is that more price sensitive customers will see that off-peak trains are cheaper and use them instead. Yes it may drive some customers to buses that are cheaper and run at peak times, but if the train is full anyway IE won't really care.

If you offer deeply discounted fares on peak services what you end up with are overcrowded trains and unhappy customers. As you said, it takes 4 people with discounted tickets to give the same return to IE as an open return.

devnull

bk wrote: »

Did someone pick the wrong time in trying to make their point?!!

Now how about 3pm or 7pm on a Friday?

Or 6 or 7am ex-Cork any day for the next 2 months?

Or at any time next Tuesday?

Answer: €36

The point is that Irish Rail have doubled the fare for all of these peak journey times from where they were just two months ago. Two months ago the exact same journeys at the exact same time cost €23, they now cost double that.

Double of €23 would be €46!

bk

oppenheimer1

But in my experience, even before the new direct bus companies, even the 5pm ex-Dublin on a Friday wasn't full, there were empty seats.

My honest fear here is that these increased prices will drive passengers away from the train and to much cheaper bus services and that it may never gain them back, thus making rail less viable.

devnull

You are correct it is a 60% increase.

Here is the overall point, I've two friends from Cork living in Dublin. Despite the new bus services, they continued to take the train at €43 return.

However with the increase of the cost of the train to €69 return for them, they both tried GoBE over the last few weeks.

Both were very happy with the GoBE service and said they are unlikely to return to the train.

Both are guys with well paid jobs in IT. If guys like this are deserting rail, then it is in big trouble IMO.

Richard Logue

How much for Dublin to Cork single on Wednesdays 5pm booked 7+ days in advance bk?

bk

Richard Logue wrote: »

How much for Dublin to Cork single on Wednesdays 5pm booked 7+ days in advance bk?

It is €23 and to be honest it is a childish question that you could have easily checked yourself.

Now will you answer my questions that you have so carefully been avoiding.

Do you think it is a good idea for Irish Rail to increase peak time fares by 60% ?

Do you think passengers are happy with these increases ?

Do you think passengers might seek out alternatives that cost 4 times less ?

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

Yes, which you have to pay, but don't have to pay when booking online for the bus. Somehow despite much cheaper tickets, the bus companies don't need to make these charges.

Just more nickel and dimming of their passengers by Irish Rail



Ignoring the buses for the moment and focusing on the trains only, it is a doubling of the fare (from €23) for the same journey and time from just two months ago.

So no that isn't "decent", Irish Rail have doubled the prices.

I said its decent in my opinion im not expecting you to change your mind.
Yes, please do ignore the buses for a moment or re name the thread as The trains are even more expensive than the bus. The bus is cheaper, i know.

BenShermin

My parents have been using the 1700 Dublin to Cork train over the last few weeks on Friday evenings. They've told me that it's very easy to get a seat on this service. That shouldn't be the case on the country's main intercity route at the busiest time of the week.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

oppenheimer1

But in my experience, even before the new direct bus companies, even the 5pm ex-Dublin on a Friday wasn't full, there were empty seats.

My honest fear here is that these increased prices will drive passengers away from the train and to much cheaper bus services and that it may never gain them back, thus making rail less viable.

devnull

You are correct it is a 60% increase.

Here is the overall point, I've two friends from Cork living in Dublin. Despite the new bus services, they continued to take the train at €43 return.

However with the increase of the cost of the train to €69 return for them, they both tried GoBE over the last few weeks.

Both were very happy with the GoBE service and said they are unlikely to return to the train.

Both are guys with well paid jobs in IT. If guys like this are deserting rail, then it is in big trouble IMO.

I cant see Irish rail getting into trouble any time soon just because 2 of your friends took the bus.

bk

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Yes, please do ignore the buses for a moment or re name the thread as The trains are even more expensive than the bus.

Perhaps a better name for the thread would be:

"Irish Rail increase peak time fares by 60%"

Richard Logue

bk wrote: »

It is €23 and to be honest it is a childish question that you could have easily checked yourself.

Now will you answer my questions that you have so carefully been avoiding.

Do you think it is a good idea for Irish Rail to increase peak time fares by 60% ?

Do you think passengers are happy with these increases ?

Do you think passengers might seek out alternatives that cost 4 times less ?

I don't for one minute think it is a childish question, but thanks for finding the time in your busy schedule to answer it.

I think Irish Rail are facing a massive financial crisis and are trying to find a way to maximise their revenue. Whether passengers seek out alternative means of transport really depends on how much Irish Rail get their pricing strategy wrong or not.

Do I like paying more money for fares? Of course not. However is the alternative to higher fares more subvention from the government? I don't think so.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

It is €23 and to be honest it is a childish question that you could have easily checked yourself.

Now will you answer my questions that you have so carefully been avoiding.

Do you think it is a good idea for Irish Rail to increase peak time fares by 60% ?

Do you think passengers are happy with these increases ?

Do you think passengers might seek out alternatives that cost 4 times less ?

Yes

Passengers wont be happy until they get their travel for free and even then some will still moan.

Im sure they do their research before travelling and chose the best option for them at the time.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

Perhaps a better name for the thread would be:

"Irish Rail increase peak time fares by 60%"

Only if you add online to it and then go on to explain exactly where the increases are and what from .

Richard Logue

"Irish Rail charge less for travel on off peak trains"

Hilly Bill

BenShermin wrote: »

My parents have been using the 1700 Dublin to Cork train over the last few weeks on Friday evenings. They've told me that it's very easy to get a seat on this service. That shouldn't be the case on the country's main intercity route at the busiest time of the week.

Thats fair enough but if they didnt get a seat then there would be complaints of overcrowding and not getting a seat. Its a no win situation.

bk

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I cant see Irish rail getting into trouble any time soon just because 2 of your friends took the bus.

It is a pattern.

There are about 6 of us, all who went to college together in Cork, all who now work in Dublin, we all spent about 10 years taking the train to Cork at least once a month.

3 now drive, I switched to the bus almost immediately after it was introduced, the remaining two stuck with the train, but with this 60% price increase, they too have now shifted over to the bus.

I've also had lots of foreign friends living in Dublin visit Cork over the last year (jazz weekend for example) and not a single one of them went by train, all went by bus.

Sure Hilly, you can stick your head in the sand and ignore it if you like, but as a Corkonian living in Dublin, who makes this journey regularly and who has a keen interest in it, I'm seeing a very massive shift from rail to road (both car and bus) and I'm honestly very concerned about the future viability of intercity rail if it continues to deteriorate like this.

Richard Logue

And bk what part would you have played in encouraging your friends not to take the train?

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

It is a pattern.

There are about 6 of us, all who went to college together in Cork, all who now work in Dublin, we all spent about 10 years taking the train to Cork at least once a month.

3 now drive, I switched to the bus almost immediately after it was introduced, the remaining two stuck with the train, but with this 60% price increase, they too have now shifted over to the bus.

I've also had lots of foreign friends living in Dublin visit Cork over the last year (jazz weekend for example) and not a single one of them went by train, all went by bus.

Sure Hilly, you can stick your head in the sand and ignore it if you like, but as a Corkonian living in Dublin, who makes this journey regularly and who has a keen interest in it, I'm seeing a very massive shift from rail to road (both car and bus) and I'm honestly very concerned about the future viability of intercity rail if it continues to deteriorate like this.

You keep mentioning the 60% increase yet fail to mention that its only on peak services and there is a cheaper fare available .
Its horses for courses BK, some prefer the bus, some prefer the train, some prefer using the car .
There is no sticking head in any sand Bk, its seeing it as it is and a few of your friend taking the bus or car is hardly a massive shift now is it?.

bk

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Only if you add online to it and then go on to explain exactly where the increases are and what from .

Well Irish Rail also increased the walk up fares only a few months ago too. This thread is talking about the recent 60% increase in peak time fares.

Richard Logue wrote: »

"Irish Rail charge less for travel on off peak trains"

But even off peak trains have gotten more expensive. Previously you could get the off peak fares 3 days in advance, now if you book 3 days in advance there are no cheap fares, even on off peak.

My problem is that, it seems like you guys never actually make this journey and aren't actually effected by this change, it is just some sort of game for you guys. Where you seem to be more interested in playing word games then actually discussing the core issue.

For me as a Corkonian living in Dublin, it is very much reality and very much impacts my pocket and the pockets of my family and friends.

The reality is that at least twice a month, I leave Dublin on a Friday at between 4 and 6 and head to Cork and back on a Sunday evening.

Two years ago, this journey could be gotten for €20 return if booked about one month in advance.

Then they changed the system about a year ago and the price went for this journey went up to €43 if booked 3 days in advance.

Now with the latest price increase the price of this journey has gone up to €69, no matter how far in advance you book!

So in 3 years we have gone from €20 to €43 to €69

This isn't some theory or game for us passengers, this is the reality and we aren't happy and many of us have and will take our business elsewhere.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

Well Irish Rail also increased the walk up fares only a few months ago too. This thread is talking about the recent 60% increase in peak time fares.



But even off peak trains have gotten more expensive. Previously you could get the off peak fares 3 days in advance, now if you book 3 days in advance there are no cheap fares, even on off peak.

My problem is that, it seems like you guys never actually make this journey and aren't actually effected by this change, it is just some sort of game for you guys. Where you seem to be more interested in playing word games then actually discussing the core issue.

For me as a Corkonian living in Dublin, it is very much reality and very much impacts my pocket and the pockets of my family and friends.

The reality is that at least twice a month, I leave Dublin on a Friday at between 4 and 6 and head to Cork and back on a Sunday evening.

Two years ago, this journey could be gotten for €20 return if booked about one month in advance.

Then they changed the system about a year ago and the price went for this journey went up to €43 if booked 3 days in advance.

Now with the latest price increase the price of this journey has gone up to €69, no matter how far in advance you book!

So in 3 years we have gone from €20 to €43 to €69

This isn't some theory or game for us passengers, this is the reality and we aren't happy and many of us have and will take our business elsewhere.

Save money and stay in Dublin. Everything is dearer than it was 2 years ago.
Its par of the course bk. People gave out about the price of petrol saying if it goes over the € then they wouldnt be paying it, they still did.
There isnt a point in giving out about the cost of a fare when there are cheaper alternatives that you prefer and use.

Richard Logue

bk wrote: »

My problem is that, it seems like you guys never actually make this journey and aren't actually effected by this change, it is just some sort of game for you guys. Where you seem to be more interested in playing word games then actually discussing the core issue.

bk I do make the journey to Cork by train and I am not here to play word games but to bring balance to the whole debate.

Maybe next time I travel by Inter City rail I should write a review.

bk

Grand so, no point in discussing it.

I'll use the bus and save a fortune, meanwhile the train will lose passengers until it becomes unviable.

You know sometimes I really do wonder if some rail supporters are actually some sort of double agents and actually want to see rail fail !!

BenShermin

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thats fair enough but if they didnt get a seat then there would be complaints of overcrowding and not getting a seat. Its a no win situation.

All intercity networks in Europe suffer overcrowding at peak times. The very fact that the Dublin to Cork route doesn't shows that IÉ are pricing peak time trains out of the market.

BenShermin

For me it quite simply all boils down to this; two years ago I was paying €20 return for travel up and down to Cork on IÉ, now the cheapest fare I can get is €43. I simply can't think of any other good or service I use that has doubled in price in the last two years. It would actually be suicidal for any other company to introduce such a crazy price increase in a recession. Absolutely nothing justifies it!!

Anyway, with the Go Bus loyalty club my next trip to Cork is free, it's their way of saying thanks for the custom, seems IÉs way of thanking me is to double my fare.

maninasia

How does the free travel scheme work for pensioners, do they claim full fare back from some government subvention?

It is crazy that the peak hour trains on Friday night between the two major cities in the country aren't even full. Shows you something is very wrong there.

bk

maninasia wrote: »

How does the free travel scheme work for pensioners, do they claim full fare back from some government subvention?

No, they don't book online *, they simply go up to the ticket desk with their free travel pass and get handed a walk up ticket at no cost.

* They can reserve a seat online at a cost of €3, which they wouldn't get back, but to be honest other then maybe a Christmas rush train, there is no need for them to reserve a seat.

foggy_lad

bk wrote: »

* They can reserve a seat online at a cost of €3, which they wouldn't get back, but to be honest other then maybe a Christmas rush train, there is no need for them to reserve a seat.

Even reserving a seat is more expensive. It costs €6 per person plus €3 in fees per booking.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Even reserving a seat is more expensive. It costs €6 per person plus €3 in fees per booking.

You forgot to mention thats €3 each way and not €6 each way.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

Grand so, no point in discussing it.

I'll use the bus and save a fortune, meanwhile the train will lose passengers until it becomes unviable.

You know sometimes I really do wonder if some rail supporters are actually some sort of double agents and actually want to see rail fail !![/QUOTE]

Just because they have a different opinion to you? Its strange to suggest that anyone that disagrees with you must be some sort of double agent and want to see rail fail.
How will the train lose passengers just because you are taking the bus? you are already taking the bus.

Con Logue

Hilly Bill wrote: »

bk wrote: »

Grand so, no point in discussing it.

I'll use the bus and save a fortune, meanwhile the train will lose passengers until it becomes unviable.

You know sometimes I really do wonder if some rail supporters are actually some sort of double agents and actually want to see rail fail !!/QUOTE]

Just because they have a different opinion to you? Its strange to suggest that anyone that disagrees with you must be some sort of double agent and want to see rail fail.
How will the train lose passengers just because you are taking the bus? you are already taking the bus.

It is pointless to assume that anyone holding a contrary opinion is some kind of fifth columnist. You might as well allege that lobbyists for private bus companies attempt to influence public policy by posing as members of the general public. Of course that doesn't happen.