DAFT report - less than 2000 homes to rent in Dublin!

liffeylite

New DAFT report from April says there are fewer than 2000 homes to rent in the capital, the lowest number for 7 years.

rents are up 5% over the last 12 months and a similar percentage for people sharing houses.

will NAMA release more homes onto the market to slow this increase?

Will house builders start to increase the number of new developments in response?

Scortho

liffeylite wrote: »

New DAFT report from April says there are fewer than 2000 homes to rent in the capital, the lowest number for 7 years.

rents are up 5% over the last 12 months and a similar percentage for people sharing houses.

will NAMA release more homes onto the market to slow this increase?

Will house builders start to increase the number of new developments in response?

Big question is how many developments in dublin does Nama own?
I can think if a few but not to the extent that people make it out to be.

House building will only occur when the cost of land and the cost of building is lower than the sale price.

Tom_Cruise

Wow that's quite a few houses still for rent, i wouldn't of imagined it being that many.

liffeylite

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

Wow that's quite a few houses still for rent, i wouldn't of imagined it being that many.

it really isn't a lot when you consider the population of county dublin is 1.25 million.

10000 approx new households are formed every year

in 2009, there were 7000 to rent. in 2012 there were 4000. in 2013, there are less than 2000. if rentals continue at the same rate with the same level of supply and demand, there wont be any to rent this time next year!

Gatling

liffeylite wrote: »

it really isn't a lot when you consider the population of county dublin is 1.25 million.

10000 approx new households are formed every year

in 2009, there were 7000 to rent. in 2012 there were 4000. in 2013, there are less than 2000. if rentals continue at the same rate with the same level of supply and demand, there wont be any to rent this time next year!

Lack of rental property = Rent increases due to raises demand and people want RA decreased

Millem

Gatling wrote: »

Lack of rental property = Rent increases due to raises demand and people want RA decreased

Totally agree. I have been in the same property for 4 years and got a big shock recently from a) the very poor quality of homes of offer. "Granny" houses that would normally have just been put on the market for sale, b) the price. Prices seem to have gone up a good 25% since I moved in and c) the competition from fellow renters. I honestly don't know how people on RA find places.

Halloween Jack

An apartment was entered on daft on Monday, advertised at a certain price, the viewing was yesterday. When we arrived at the viewing the owner tells us the price has risen substantially. I walked away pretty much immediately. Thanks daft.

NicsM

Halloween Jack wrote: »

An apartment was entered on daft on Monday, advertised at a certain price, the viewing was yesterday. When we arrived at the viewing the owner tells us the price has risen substantially. I walked away pretty much immediately. Thanks daft.

How is that Daft's fault? The landlord realised he could up the rent due to demand and didn't amend the ad accordingly-you can hardly blame Daft for that.

When I was house-hunting a few months back the level of competiton for apartments was insane, it took us a long time to get somewhere decent for a not too insane price.

gaius c

Sorry to break it to you Liffey but the DAFT report is incorrect. Rental numbers for Dublin city have been under 2k for most of 2013 but have recently increased to 2200-2250. Significant enough jump but it may be down to students leaving accom for the summer.

wolfpawnat

We are coming into May/June now so a few places will be added with students finishing for the year, that said, I know several that are going home for the summer but still paying rent on their places as they are excellently located and at a reasonable price.

I fear what the August situation will be. I have noticed apartments like mine are going for over 1100 again now, I fear my lease renewal next month, I can foresee my landlord putting a huge rise on it. Doubt the RA would ever rise to match it!

Halloween Jack

Ninaluna wrote: »

How is that Daft's fault? The landlord realised he could up the rent due to demand and didn't amend the ad accordingly-you can hardly blame Daft for that.

When I was house-hunting a few months back the level of competiton for apartments was insane, it took us a long time to get somewhere decent for a not too insane price.

Sorry, I was sarcastically thanking daft for the timing of the report rather than the antics of the property owner, she mentioned the report when telling us about her change of price.

If agree with you regarding the levels of competition, although I would say its been tough for a while now. We've ended up moving every year for the last 4/5 years and it has always been competitive. Even with sterling references and such.

gaius c

wolfpawnat wrote: »

We are coming into May/June now so a few places will be added with students finishing for the year, that said, I know several that are going home for the summer but still paying rent on their places as they are excellently located and at a reasonable price.

I fear what the August situation will be. I have noticed apartments like mine are going for over 1100 again now, I fear my lease renewal next month, I can foresee my landlord putting a huge rise on it. Doubt the RA would ever rise to match it!

There is a small (at the moment) rent bubble forming in Dublin. There are some extremely daft (he he) asking prices for some very ordinary places. You'll see them pop up on email alerts and if you go back a fortnight later, they are still there which hasn't really been the trend for about a year now. I think some landlords have lost the run of themselves and interpreted "stronger letting market" as meaning they can stick a couple of hundred onto monthly rents. It happened in 08-09 as well and was followed by a big rent crash. It's good for sensible landlords because all the tenants are funneled towards our sensibly priced properties.

Technoprisoner

quick....lets all jump on the band wagon and get buy to lets

gurramok

Don't forget the landlords passing the property tax onto tenants, thats another rise right there which will reflect in tenancies this year onwards.

Zamboni

It is appalling that rents are being allowed to rise when there are thousands of vacant properties in Dublin being kept off the market.

gaius c

Can we get the inaccurate & misleading thread title updated please?

Ray Palmer

Zamboni wrote: »

It is appalling that rents are being allowed to rise when there are thousands of vacant properties in Dublin being kept off the market.

How do you know? There is a lot of speculative talk about how much is out there that can be rented out. I don't get how you know there is thousands.

The Spider

liffeylite wrote: »

New DAFT report from April says there are fewer than 2000 homes to rent in the capital, the lowest number for 7 years.

rents are up 5% over the last 12 months and a similar percentage for people sharing houses.

will NAMA release more homes onto the market to slow this increase?

Will house builders start to increase the number of new developments in response?

Genuine question here, who are NAMA going to release these apartments to?

My understanding is that they would have to sell them to investors who would then rent them out (open to correction here!) NAMA are obviously going to try get the most money they can for these apartments, that's basic economics, so selling them all at once doesn't make sense.

Investors will then maximise the return on their investments through rent, I don't think there's going to be a magic bullet release of apartments that will drive prices and rents down, it's known as the property market and any rental property will have to wash it's face, in other words pay for itself and return a profit.

No investor will go near any apartments that don't, and we're constantly told not to buy apartments as they're not worth it, so an investor can only look at the yield to see if it's worth putting money into.

NAMA isn't as far as I know set up to be a state landlord.

thehomeofDob

I've been watching Daft for properties 1000 or under a month in South Dublin (east of the N11) to Bray, for the past number of months. There has been a significant reduction on the number of properties (Bray used to show 30-40 in all price ranges and it's now down to 17-25); as well as an increase in price on even the most basic places. I earn a decent salary, but renting is become an altogether expensive affair in that you're paying over the odds for less than stellar quality.

gurramok

Ray Palmer wrote: »

How do you know? There is a lot of speculative talk about how much is out there that can be rented out. I don't get how you know there is thousands.

Zoom in on Dublin. Assumption is that they are in control of NAMA as they are complete and empty.(Census 2011)
http://airomaps.nuim.ie/flexviewer/?config=vacantireland.xml

On this, i'm surprised at the levels of vacancies on the South city, i'm not familiar with those areas, anyone know? (though quite a few in Ballsbridge)

More info:
Bank now controls the majority of the 6,000 built but unsold properties within the M50
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/Business/News/article403471.ece

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/03/23/3250-of-namas-irish-homes-are-lying-empty/
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland/nama-chief-delivers-upbeat-progress-report-1.1336803
http://www.gordonmrm.ie/article-nama-ceo-on-debunking-the-nama-myths/

Depending on the date and the figure, its at least 3000 up to 6000. We know what would happen if they were released for rental, rents will tumble.

Brownhead

liffeylite wrote: »

New DAFT report from April says there are fewer than 2000 homes to rent in the capital, the lowest number for 7 years.

rents are up 5% over the last 12 months and a similar percentage for people sharing houses.

will NAMA release more homes onto the market to slow this increase?

Will house builders start to increase the number of new developments in response?

House builders are mostly broke and have no finance to construct homes. NAMA will sell off some of its stock. Landlords however will be repossessed in greater numbers with the houses sold to owner occupiers. The rental shortage will continue and become more pronounced. Older properties are being closed down as well.
It will be hell for tenants.

who_ru

and think of the number of BTL gaff in arrears for ages, still being rented out, and LL pocketing cash without making repayments.

Ireland really is a country where paying your mortgage is optional it seems.

PhilMcGee

My agent got in touch with me yesterday. One of my tenants, on a lease that I was just going to roll over at the current rent, said he wasnt going to pay the current rent anymore and gave an ultimatum. Reduce the rent or he leaves. And he was very aggressive about it, accusing the agent of robbing him and so on.
Agent says they are getting €75 a month more than the tenant is currently paying for the same apartments in the same building.
I've told him to tell the tenant the rent is going up by €75 and to give him notice if hes not happy with that. And just to be sure I went looking at ads and there are none vacant at all in the area, which i havent seen in years. There is definitely short supply. And with extra taxes and rent reductions over the years, rents are still only just getting back to what they were in 2000.
I think there is more upward movements in rents to come.

NAMA wont release property the way people expect them to. As they do, it will be bought by investors until yields go back to more normal levels. For the moment renting is becoming the more popular option for the average person. For a while it was choice, but I think from now on its going to be more the way things just happen to be.
Then eventually building can start again when purchase prices rise enough above building costs, but that is a long long way away.

You can buy apartments now that arent even advertised to the public for €80k and rent them for €800+ . Thats a terrific yield and until that yield reduces, those properties will always be snapped up before they get to joe public.

I get a list of repossessions every month from some contacts I have in the banks. Some of them that I am interested in looking at are already sold when I call their EA about them.

belcampprisoner

most rental properties don't go on a list its word of mouth

PhilMcGee

belcampprisoner wrote: »

most rental properties don't go on a list its word of mouth

They cut and paste them into an email and send them to me. I dont know where the list is but it definitely looks like they are from a list to me. They are even numbered and categorized in the cells.

nomoreindie

PhilMcGee wrote: »

My agent got in touch with me yesterday. One of my tenants, on a lease that I was just going to roll over at the current rent, said he wasnt going to pay the current rent anymore and gave an ultimatum. Reduce the rent or he leaves. And he was very aggressive about it, accusing the agent of robbing him and so on.
Agent says they are getting €75 a month more than the tenant is currently paying for the same apartments in the same building.
I've told him to tell the tenant the rent is going up by €75 and to give him notice if hes not happy with that. And just to be sure I went looking at ads and there are none vacant at all in the area, which i havent seen in years. There is definitely short supply. And with extra taxes and rent reductions over the years, rents are still only just getting back to what they were in 2000.
I think there is more upward movements in rents to come.

NAMA wont release property the way people expect them to. As they do, it will be bought by investors until yields go back to more normal levels. For the moment renting is becoming the more popular option for the average person. For a while it was choice, but I think from now on its going to be more the way things just happen to be.
Then eventually building can start again when purchase prices rise enough above building costs, but that is a long long way away.

You can buy apartments now that arent even advertised to the public for €80k and rent them for €800+ . Thats a terrific yield and until that yield reduces, those properties will always be snapped up before they get to joe public.

I get a list of repossessions every month from some contacts I have in the banks. Some of them that I am interested in looking at are already sold when I call their EA about them.

considering how hard it is to repossess properties at the moment and that sellers would look to maximise return,I would have to question the accuracy of what you are posting on the property forums. Please provide some proof of your halycon property investor world by posting these lists online

PhilMcGee

nomoreindie wrote: »

considering how hard it is to repossess properties at the moment and that sellers would look to maximise return,I would have to question the accuracy of what you are posting on the property forums. Please provide some proof of your halycon property investor world by posting these lists online

:rolleyes:
Here we go again.

As usual, lets take Dublin only, because the rest of the country is basket case as far as property is concerned.
Would you agree that yields are very high at the moment?
Would you agree that there are repossessions happening at the moment and more to come?
Would you agree that rents are rising?
Would you agree that property prices are if not still falling, at least not rising very fast?
Put all of these things together and, even if you have no knowledge or experience of the business, you can get some idea of whats happening.
If you have knowledge and experience of the business you can glean a lot more from this information too.

liffeylite

PhilMcGee wrote: »

My agent got in touch with me yesterday. One of my tenants, on a lease that I was just going to roll over at the current rent, said he wasnt going to pay the current rent anymore and gave an ultimatum. Reduce the rent or he leaves. And he was very aggressive about it, accusing the agent of robbing him and so on.
Agent says they are getting €75 a month more than the tenant is currently paying for the same apartments in the same building.
I've told him to tell the tenant the rent is going up by €75 and to give him notice if hes not happy with that. And just to be sure I went looking at ads and there are none vacant at all in the area, which i havent seen in years. There is definitely short supply. And with extra taxes and rent reductions over the years, rents are still only just getting back to what they were in 2000.
I think there is more upward movements in rents to come.

NAMA wont release property the way people expect them to. As they do, it will be bought by investors until yields go back to more normal levels. For the moment renting is becoming the more popular option for the average person. For a while it was choice, but I think from now on its going to be more the way things just happen to be.
Then eventually building can start again when purchase prices rise enough above building costs, but that is a long long way away.

You can buy apartments now that arent even advertised to the public for €80k and rent them for €800+ . Thats a terrific yield and until that yield reduces, those properties will always be snapped up before they get to joe public.

I get a list of repossessions every month from some contacts I have in the banks. Some of them that I am interested in looking at are already sold when I call their EA about them.

some interesting points here. the obvious problem with Dublin when compared to say the UK market, is that because prices have fallen so hugely you would expect rents to fall in a similar pattern.

this hasn't happened at all.

so if you buy an apartment for 100k, or even 80k as a repossession as mentioned in the post above. if you can then rent out that flat for 800 euros a month, you have a fantastic profit margin!

in the uk, if a flat was worth 100k in say Manchester city centre, the rental value would be in line with an average 25yr mortgage payment. so around 450 quid a month.

however in Dublin, this same property valued at 100k will rent for 1000 euros a month! totally out of kilter.

I actually think that when a bank enters the irish market that is cash rich and actually lends to people, house prices will go up pretty quickly because there has to be thousands of people in Dublin that could afford a repayment mortgage of say 700 euro a month but are currently paying 1100 a month to rent a similar property.

the unemployment rate in Dublin is now just under 10% (nationally 14% but this takes into account unemployment rates of 18-19% in parts of the west) Dublin has the lowest unemployment rates in the country and is I believe the 4th highest salaried city in Europe.

provide these people with access to mortgages at a fair level and the bubble starts over again....

PhilMcGee

..

joehig

thats cause no ones buying

gurramok

liffeylite wrote: »

I actually think that when a bank enters the irish market that is cash rich and actually lends to people, house prices will go up pretty quickly because there has to be thousands of people in Dublin that could afford a repayment mortgage of say 700 euro a month but are currently paying 1100 a month to rent a similar property.

the unemployment rate in Dublin is now just under 10% (nationally 14% but this takes into account unemployment rates of 18-19% in parts of the west) Dublin has the lowest unemployment rates in the country and is I believe the 4th highest salaried city in Europe.

provide these people with access to mortgages at a fair level and the bubble starts over again....

Are you saying individuals are paying 1100 a month or are they sharing with others?
Those individuals if they exist in said numbers have to have the usual solid job, solid savings record, no debts or bad credit record and substantial deposit ready.

Source for 10% unemployment rate? By the way emigration has decimated the 15-30 age group.http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/population/2012/popmig_2012.pdf

Source for 4th highest salaried city in Europe?