Program Analysis - Programs rated, debated and berated.

Hanley

Burkatron wrote: »

Guys, just a quick 1!
My girlfriend is training away with me! Doing a similar split to what I have up earlier in the thread! She's improved her deadlift (110kg) her squat (85kg) but her bech has plateaued & isn't improving eve no matter how many times she resets or correct technique she's stalled!

Would subbing in Strict OH presses & more tricep dip work for the next cycle be correct to help break this plateau?

Tell her to stop being such a girl.

Seriously.

Girls benches move slower than bananas digesting.

gymfreak

Hanley wrote: »

Seriously.

Girls benches move slower than bananas digesting.

So, so, SO True!

If she's starting to get frustrated at it, sub in different pressing variations for a few weeks before revisiting it!

Will Heffernan

Trying to comment on these in order. If I've something or something remind me.

Sangre wrote: »

Thought I'd do some analysis of my own programme in light of recent threads:

Vertical Pull
1584
1620
1404
4608 Total

Vertical Push
936
702
1638 Total

Rato VPull:VPush = 2.8:1

Horizontal Pull
1950
936
60
180
3126 Total

Horizontal Push
1350
1404
2754 Total


Ratio Hpull:Hpush = 1.14:1

Total Pull:Push = 1.76:1

Hip Dominant
1837.5
750
2587 Total

Quad Dominant
3120
1650
4770 Total

Ratio Quad:Hip .5:1


Assuming I've done my calculation correctly, my pull:push is probably too high (in favour of pull) and more pushing is required. I do quite little vertical pushing at the moment so perhaps this could address it. Either that or reduce my vertical pulling.

I tend to look at it with regard to the total Pull to Push ratio...I mean...I always look at the ratios with regard to the planes but I am not using these as any sort of an exact measure...more to just get an idea of the total approximate volume if that makes sense.

So that being said and based on the numbers you've detailed above:

Total Push = (1638+2754) 4392
Total Pull = (4608+3126) 7734

That doesn't look too bad to me...not even twice the pulling to pushing that is. That would be around and about the figure I'd be looking for myself.

My hip:quat is completely off. A lot more focus is needrd on hip dominant movements. I knew that already but this shows how stark it is.

Agreed. Personally I think you get a lot more bang for your buck from hip dominant work. You should be at the very minimum be looking to 'equalise' this I think.

Will post a revised work-out for people to comment on.

Would be very interested to see this and to hear your thoughts on how it's going if and when you implement any changes?

Will Heffernan

gvn wrote: »

There are 3 separate work outs.

The first is:

Squats
Pull-Ups (mixed grips between sets)
Barbell OHP
Raises (lateral + front raises in a superset)
Dumbbell Shrugs

The second is:

Barbell Bench Press
Pendlay Row
Incline Dumbbell Press
Dumbbell Rows
Incline Dumbbell Flyes
Bent-over Dumbbell Flyes (or raises, whatever they're called)

The third is split into morning and evening:

Morning:
Squats
Calf Raises with Barbell on back

Evening:
Deadlifts
SLDLs

3-5 days per week, depending on how I recover. Sometimes I take a day or two rest between exercise days, sometimes I train on consecutive days. Generally it'd be 4 days per week.

The main compound lifts (squats, bench, BB rows, etc.) are done in a 5x5 scheme most of the time, and then followed by a lighter weight done in a 3x12 scheme. Sometimes I'll do 3x3, 3x8 or even 10x10 instead of 5x5, depending on mood.

I try to keep horizontal pull:push and vertical pull:push in favour of the pull movement; it generally works out at about 1.2:1 with respect to horizontal pull:push, and 2:1 with respect to vertical pull:push (thanks to far more volume with pull-ups than with OHP). Hip:quad ratio is about 1:1, which I need to improve, but that's difficult considering I squat 2/3 times per week and only deadlift 1/2 times per week.

Every few weeks I'll go through a 1-2 week run of DieselCrew's Shoulder Rehab Protocol, which is just a mixture of exercises designed to improve scapular stability/strength (scap push ups, pull ups, scap rows, band pull aparts, etc.) Though I have relatively good hip mobility, I'd like to find a similar programme for them.

If I feel up to it after a workout, I'll throw in some core work, such as weighted planks and so on. I don't do this often enough, though.

Any criticisms/tips/advice welcome!

Looks good to me. Any comments/suggestions that I'd make you've already made yourself.

Will Heffernan

Mickery wrote: »

1. Objectives.

Health.
Strength.
Gain muscle.
Lose fat.
Improve posture.


2. Stats.

Age: 35
Height: 172cm
Weight: 73.3kg
Posture: Desk jockey, forward head with some upper back rounding. (My opinion, not professional.)


3. The program.

Two full body workouts per week.

Workout 1
Target 1RM (kg) for current weights cycle
Overhead Press 55
Trap Bar Squat 150

Do you mean trapbar deadlift? Not sure what you mean by trapbar squat? Not sure if you mean that you are trapbar deadlifting with a more upright/quad dominant posture or you mean something else entirely?

Parallel Bar Pull Up 110
Chest Dip 106

Workout 2
Target 1RM (kg) for current weights cycle
Bench Press 90
Deadlift 150
Wide Pull Up 110
Chin Up 105


Added in arm work at the end of each workout as they still look like twigs:

Lying Triceps Extension 43
Biceps Curl 46.5


It was mentioned that deadlifts followed by pull ups \ chin ups is not optimal but with only two full body sessions per week I don't know where to put them.

If you feel comfortable deadlifting and doing pull ups and chin ups in the same session and back to back that is fine by me. I don't really have any 'rules' with regard training programs...I am just talking about the guidelines that I use. If you like it and it's working for you then power on.

4. Implementation.

Two sessions a week, one of each workout above.
All exercises follow a six week cycle with different percentages (of 1RM) to suit each exercise:

Week 1 70% 5x8
Week 2 75% 3x8
Week 3 80% 3x5
Week 4 85% 3x3
Week 5 90% 3x3
Week 6 95% 1x3 (picked this template up from a post on boards by Hanley)

Looks good. As I said above...if it is working for you...then stick with it till it isn't.

1RM figure is increased at the end of each cycle without actually testing them.
Would I be better off with a seventh week 1RM test?

Yes and no. Depends on your training environment. If you are training with others then I'd say why not...if you are on your own and you are continuing to make progress then I'd say why bother.

If you are training on your own I'd tend to suggest using some sort of body weight or fixed weight testing to monitor your progress and to see what kinds of improvement you are making rather than a single all out 1RM max effort test.

At any time, all exercises are at different stages of their cycle.

Not exactly sure what you mean by this?

Additional exercise:

Convict conditioning (bodyweight exercises) on some off days to keep things ticking over.

Ongoing posture correction exercises:
Shoulder Dislocates
Scap Pushup
Band Pull Apart
Inverted Row
Chin Retractions
Farmer Walks (loaded carries)


5. Progress and additional info.

In the last seven months (although training this way longer).

Weight: from 68.7kg to 73.3kg
Belly fat (circumference): from 30.5" to 29.25"
Strength: Steady increases in all exercises. Cycling weights seems, to me, to be superior to fixed sets and reps and attempting to progessively overload the weight week by week. This way I kept getting stuck on a particular weight.

Average daily calorie intake increased over this time from 2100 to 3100.
Macros: Carbs 26%, Fat 51%, Protein 23%

Intermittent fasting daily from 8-9pm to 12-1pm. Going on two years now.

Well from the sounds of it...you are making progress...that's better than most so I'd say keep it up.

Mickery

Thanks for the response Will.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Do you mean trapbar deadlift? Not sure what you mean by trapbar squat? Not sure if you mean that you are trapbar deadlifting with a more upright/quad dominant posture or you mean something else entirely?

I'm trying to perform a squat like movement using the trap bar. The bar doesn't touch the ground between reps unlike a deadlift. My back is more upright during the movement. It feels very stable. I stopped normal squatting as the bar seemed to press right on my spine no matter what way I set up. I figured it might be a posture issue (forward head, slightly rounded upper back) so I'm trying to sort that out.

See the link below (although I haven't tried it on a platform yet so I'm not getting as deep as shown here).

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/TBSquat.html

Will Heffernan wrote: »

If you are training on your own I'd tend to suggest using some sort of body weight or fixed weight testing to monitor your progress and to see what kinds of improvement you are making rather than a single all out 1RM max effort test.

Sounds good to me. The convict conditioning bodyweight exercises are set up as a 10 step progression. The 1RM is just a notional figure which I should pass by in a cycle or two anyway.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Quote:At any time, all exercises are at different stages of their cycle.


Not exactly sure what you mean by this?

I mean the exercises are not synched e.g. during a particular workout I could be on "week 1" deadlift, "week 4" bench press etc. This is fairly random at the moment so it would be difficult to measure exact push \ pull ratios like Sangre did a few posts ago.

Sangre

Will, many thanks for taking the time to respond to me and in this thread generally.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I tend to look at it with regard to the total Pull to Push ratio...I mean...I always look at the ratios with regard to the planes but I am not using these as any sort of an exact measure...more to just get an idea of the total approximate volume if that makes sense.

So that being said and based on the numbers you've detailed above:

Total Push = (1638+2754) 4392
Total Pull = (4608+3126) 7734

That doesn't look too bad to me...not even twice the pulling to pushing that is. That would be around and about the figure I'd be looking for myself.

Thats good to hear. I won't look to change anything dramatically going forward.

Agreed. Personally I think you get a lot more bang for your buck from hip dominant work. You should be at the very minimum be looking to 'equalise' this I think.


Would be very interested to see this and to hear your thoughts on how it's going if and when you implement any changes?

I have been slowly tweaking my routine as I go along since my post on the ratios and trying to figure out what might work for me. Moving focus away from quad dominant movements will suit me as I'll probably me doing more and more weekend cycling during summer. Hip Dominant focused work-out will be used to balance that out. However, quad movements will remain with a view to retain my mobility in that department but with a less focus. Might throw up a routine at weekend.

How would you propose quantifying any changes other than an increase in those movements?

Will Heffernan

Mickery wrote: »

Thanks for the response Will.

No problemo.

I'm trying to perform a squat like movement using the trap bar. The bar doesn't touch the ground between reps unlike a deadlift. My back is more upright during the movement. It feels very stable. I stopped normal squatting as the bar seemed to press right on my spine no matter what way I set up. I figured it might be a posture issue (forward head, slightly rounded upper back) so I'm trying to sort that out.

See the link below (although I haven't tried it on a platform yet so I'm not getting as deep as shown here).

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/TBSquat.html

Gotcha.

Sounds good to me. The convict conditioning bodyweight exercises are set up as a 10 step progression. The 1RM is just a notional figure which I should pass by in a cycle or two anyway.

Gotcha.

I mean the exercises are not synched e.g. during a particular workout I could be on "week 1" deadlift, "week 4" bench press etc. This is fairly random at the moment so it would be difficult to measure exact push \ pull ratios like Sangre did a few posts ago.

How's that working out for you? Is that something you've done purposefully? Has it evolved like that?

Will Heffernan

Sangre wrote: »

Will, many thanks for taking the time to respond to me and in this thread generally.

I'll try to respond to everyone that posts here.

I have been slowly tweaking my routine as I go along since my post on the ratios and trying to figure out what might work for me. Moving focus away from quad dominant movements will suit me as I'll probably me doing more and more weekend cycling during summer. Hip Dominant focused work-out will be used to balance that out. However, quad movements will remain with a view to retain my mobility in that department but with a less focus. Might throw up a routine at weekend.

It'll be good to see what you come up with.

How would you propose quantifying any changes other than an increase in those movements?

I am not sure what you mean by this?

Naos

1) Objective:

Stay injury free. Increase conditioning. Increase strength. Decrease Bodyfat.

2) Stats:

27, 181cm (5' 9") & 84.5kg.

3) Starting Strength with MMA

Have done SS before and reading on the net, lots of different opinions as to whether it's good or not. I haven't done weights properly in a while, so just want to increase overall strength before going doing a more specific program / if it works well for MMA keep at it.

Starting off light as I've decided to take a more structured approach this time and haven't lifted heavy in a while.

Typical ABA(W1), BAB(W2) format. Weights will be as follows:

Week 1 Week 2 Week 3 Week 4 Week 5 Week 6
W/O 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Sq 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 92.5 95 97.5 100 102.5 105 107.5 110 112.5
BP 70 - 75 - 80 - 85 - 90 - 92.5 - 95 - 97.5 - 100 -
DL 90 - 97.5 - 105 - 112.5 - 120 - 122.5 - 125 - 127.5 - 130 -
Press - 45 - 47.5 - 50 - 52.5 - 55 - 57.5 - 60 - 62.5 - 65
Clean - 40 - 42.5 - 45 - 47.5 - 50 - 52.5 - 55 - 57.5 - 60
Dips 10,6,10 - 10,9,8 - 10,9,9 - 10,10,10 - 11,10,10 - 11,11,10 - 11,11,11 - 12,11,11 - 12,12,12 -
Chins - 8,8,8 - 9,8,8 - 9,9,8 - 10,9,9 - 10,10,10 - 11,10,10 - 11,11,11 - 12,11,11 - 12,12,12

W/O = Workout. Every exercise is 3 sets of 5 reps bar DL which is 1 set of 5 reps.

4) Frequency:

3 strength sessions per week (Tues, Thurs, Sat AM)

3/4 MMA sessions per week: Tues (MMA), Wed (MMA+Bjj), Thurs (MMA+Wrestling), Sat (MMA). (Approx 2-2.5 hours each)

The martial art sessions are pretty tough going on the body as I'm sure you know Will, so went for the lightest minimum loading as recommended by Rippetoe.

floggg

Ok, so here goes.

I'm 28, 13.5 stone, 5' 10".

Short term goals are to drop a good bit off body fat. If i could get stronger while doing so, great.

I'm currently a bit restricted in what I can do by some knee trouble, for which I am seeing a physio for. I've been cleared to do most gym work save for squat and lunge type exercises. Deadlifts and leg press are ok though.

I can't do running, though can play 5 a side once to twice a week (depending on recovery).

I have been half assing things on and off for the last 2 years, but I tend to always enjoy doing programs based around squats, deadlifts and presses as the "main course" each day to borrow from one of Will's comments above. I tend to stick to the routine a lot more when I am following that sort of plan.

I'm hoping to be able to start back running in the next 4 - 6 weeks, but in the meantime have 5 a side and cycling (4 mile to and from work three times a week) as cardio. I tend to dislike doing stuff like threadmill or rowing machine and generally don't have time to do them in the gym anyway (go before work most times).

anyway, here is what I was thinking:

Tuesday:

Bench - 3 x 10
Press - 3 x 10
Decline DB Press - 3 x 10
BB Rows 3 x 10
[Biceps]

Thurs:

Deadlift
SLDL
Hamstring Curls
[Triceps]
Core Work

Sat:

Leg Press
Chins
Calf Raise
Shrugs
[Core Work]

I want to flesh it out a bit more, and maybe add some exercises on Thurs and Sat. However, I am not sure of the groupings that work best (e.g. had thought to include chins/pull ups with deadlifts).

I realise I am probably in the category of people doing the wrong thing/unnecessary stuff. That said, I enjoy that sort of program, and the more I enjoy, the more likely I am to do it and hence reach my goals. I tend to eat much healthier too if i can get into a good training routine, so there's that too.

For transparency, I'll add this is influenced by Hanleys post here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68120286&postcount=4 - but is also pretty similar to something I had been doing myself previously.

conzy

Age 23, Currently 72kg at about 13% body fat, 18 months ago I was 98kg and weak as a mouse, For about a year I ate "sensibly" and arsed around in the gym on various machines. Since January I have been lifting seriously and tracking every session aswell as adhering to strict macros. I have gained about 8-10lbs of muscle I think, which puts my total fat loss at about 67lbs

The short term goal is to get leaner and maintain strength, the long term goal is to get stronger while staying lean! I think my push is weak and would like to improve that, I can do 4 sets of 25 pushups, but can only bench 55kg and it never seems to progress where as I feel I have made good deadlift / squat progress

I hope to hit the 1.5x BW squat, 2x BW deadlift and 1x BW bench in the next few months.

The workout is split between A and B, I train Monday,Wednesday,Friday so its ABA, BAB, ABA etc...

A

3x5 Squat 90kg
3x5 Bench 55kg
3x5 Bent over row 57.5kg
3x8 Barbell shrugs 80kg
3x8 Chins bodyweight
3x8 Dips bodyweight
3x8 Plate Raise 25kg
2x10 hyperextension 25kg
3x12 kneeling cable crunch
3x12 Captains chair or leg raises on a bench

B

3x5 Squat 90kg
1x5 Deadlift 127.5kg
3x5 Bent over row current - 10%
3x5 Military Press 37.5kg
3x8 Barbell Curls 30kg
3x8 Dips bodyweight
3x8 lat raises 8kg
3x8 front raises 8kg
3x12 kneeling cable crunch
3x12 Captains chair or leg raises on a bench

The volume on the heavy compound lifts was 5x5 for 3 months or so but I dropped it to 3x5 as I am eating 500 or so cals below maintenance. I obviously noticed a decrease in the rate of progression, but I am still increasing strength and losing fat.

I can just about do 3x8 dips / chins, I have been failing on rep 6/7 on the last set and usually do a set of negatives then.

I also try and run 5k 2-3 days a week on non lifting days, but I worry that it hampers recovery.

Thanks for the help!

Will Heffernan

If you are looking to lose weight in your program just burn more calories than you consume and if you are looking to gain mass then consume more calories than your burn....apparently everything else including your personal specifications and circumstances is 'pointless' and 'irrelevant'.

Burn more calories than you consume and or consume more calories than you burn is all you need to know and all that matters.

Good luck with your programs.

thegreatiam

what if i am not trying to lose or gain weight?

Will Heffernan

thegreatiam wrote: »

what if i am not trying to lose or gain weight?

I will add just 'train harder'.

That's it. Train harder, consume more calories or burn more calories...that's it all taken care of.

thegreatiam

so if I want to stay the same weight i need to train harder?

harpstilidie

Cardio: Bike- 15km or Treadmill- 5km.

1A. Lateral Pulldown-40kg, 4 sets of 15.
1B. Machine- 40kg, 4 sets of 15.

Vertical leg crunch- 4 sets of 20.
Side Bridge - 4 sets of 30 secs per side.

2A. Dumbbell Bent Over Row- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 15.
2B. Alternate Arm Dumbbell Press - 15lbs, 4 sets of 15.

Bicycle Crunches- 4 sets of 20.
Torso rotation with 8kg medicine ball- 4 sets of 20.

3A. Bicep Curl- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 10.
3B. Tricep Cable Press Down - 30lbs, 4 sets of 10.

Ab exercise (don't know name)- 4 sets of 20.
Hip Thrusters - 4 sets of 20.

Exercise Bike- 5km.


Tried this and it's taking me ages to get through. You said I should try and shorten my time in the gym. I done 10km on the bike to start with instead of 15k and superset the exercises and didn't even do the last cardio and it was about 90 mins. Is that too long? Is there any exercises there I could cut out or cut down on? I probably will get quicker though.

Nate--IRL--

OK I’m gonna participate here as I feel I have lost my way in the last year or so, and could do with some advice on how change things up.

Started a new job last October after a while of being idle (+ 1 year), and am now cycling to work. I’ve been a regular gym goer for a few years and my new Gym is literally next door to my job (Northwood) and I couldn’t be happier with it. Since I’ve started working there I’ve lost about 7-8 Kilos, and am now ~71kg (partly through diet, partly due to being more active again).

After I noticed the weight loss taking shape I got it in to my head that I wanted to see a sixpack for the first time in my life. Seems easy enough to get close to it, but not the final product I didn’t/don’t have the discipline for this, that’s fine, I can accept that, and I’m not trying to pursue it anymore.

The initial zeal to achieve this, among the other changes in my life has taken a toll on what I can lift these days. It isn’t a nice feeling going backwards, I had some pride invested on how much I could lift (that might sound silly), and seeing this reduce has reduced my motivation considerably. I’ve lost 20kgs off my peak Squat and Deadlift.

I’m looking for… I don’t know what I’m looking for, I just want it to be interesting again. Perhaps the biggest mistake I’m guilty of is not changing things. What I have been doing has been covering the basics, but I’m going backwards and I’m bored with it, I need something new, maybe even completely different, I’m open to suggestions.

Current week would look something like this (nearly all 3x8 + 10 min cardio warmup and 20mins after)

Mon
Shrugs
Shoulder press
Upright row
Lateral raises
Anterior raises

Tue
Pullups
Deadlift
Bent over Row
One Arm Row
Machine row or Pulldown

Wed
Cardio 1 hr

Thu
Bench
Pullover row
Incline bench
Dips
Triceps extensions

Fri
Squat
Stiff leg deadlift
Leg press
Calf raise

All basic stuff, but looking for new ideas to keep it interesting.

Nate

RidleyRider

So planning on cutting soon and this was my initial plan.

Do HIIT until I burn 350kcals on the treadmill on each leg day (twice a week). To tag along to that I'll probably cut on 2000-2200kcals. Split that into 40p/30c/30f.

Anyone got any thoughts?

Naos

So what would be considered optimal with MMA training?

And also why would a structured program be difficult to combine with MMA?

Hanley

Naos wrote: »

So what would be considered optimal with MMA training?

And also why would a structured program be difficult to combine with MMA?

Because if you're sparring and get a hard kick to the quad, squatting is out. Or if someone keylocks you and tweaks it a bit you won't be pressing the following day. You can't periodise unpredictable.

Naos

Hanley wrote: »

Because if you're sparring and get a hard kick to the quad, squatting is out. Or if someone keylocks you and tweaks it a bit you won't be pressing the following day. You can't periodise unpredictable.

Okay I understand that due to picking up those type of knocks, but surely there need to be some type of structure followed to help with progression?

ScissorPaperRock

Does anyone have any recommendations for a 4-day programme? I've been doing BLAB but would like to change to a 4-day programme. I'm predominantly focused on building strength, but really want to start incorporating more conditioning-oriented work as well.

Mellor

Hanley wrote: »

Because if you're sparring and get a hard kick to the quad, squatting is out. Or if someone keylocks you and tweaks it a bit you won't be pressing the following day. You can't periodise unpredictable.

Ugh to this.
A "knock" a picked up 2 weeks ago hasn't went away. I think legs could be out for 2 months pending an x-ray.

RidleyRider

I was boxing last year and ended up injured with a niggly shoulder that haunts me still. What's worse is I missed out on my first fight and quit altogether.

For the person doing MMA, I'd say follow a programme as best you can and compromise when/if you get injured.

thegreatiam

twisted my neck in BJJ in feb, had me off the weights until 2 weeks ago. basically reset me back to day one of my programme and I wont catch up for another 2/3 weeks
hard to work a programme around unpredictable injuries.

Vet Thrower

My goal is balanced strength development. In line with the advice in this thread, I am doing two days in the gym. One day is a hip dominant / upper body push day, and the other is a quad dominant / upper body pull day. Exercise selection changes each month.

I want to maintain a 2 : 1 ratio of hip / pull volume to quad / push volume, as I have imbalances I want to correct (weaker UB pull, LB hip dominant).

My question is how to maintain these ratios when exercise selection changes.

So, this month I am doing trap bar dead lifts and back squats (and accessory work), and am able to maintain a hip : quad ratio of 2 : 1.

Say next month, I do box squats as my main hip dominant exercise and double KB front squats as my main quad dominant exercise. I'll only be able to do 48kg in the front squats as this is as heavy as I can go in my gym.

This will throw my hip : quad ratio out of whack and it will be more like 3 : 1.

Should I just accept this and not worry about it as it is only for a month?

Should I do lighter box squats to compensate / or choose a hip dominant exercise that forces me to use lighter weights (e.g. RDL?)

Should I do more quad dominant accessory work to compensate?

Sangre

Open to correction here but I would have thought both trap bar dead lift and box squats were quad dominant.

Mellor

Reduced load + more reps = same volume

Just a thought.

Mickery

Will Heffernan wrote: »

How's that working out for you? Is that something you've done purposefully? Has it evolved like that?

It has just evolved that way. I did try to select the exercises to give some balance. I try to incorporate any knowledge I pick up here. I definitely don't want to be doing 90%+ of 1RM on all exercises at the same time. Once I avoid this I seem to be ok.

In the past I stuck rigidly to 3x6, increasing the weight every week. Deadlifting this way left me in a twitchy, nervy mess post workout. My bench would just get stuck.

I need to think about swapping in alternate exercises for a cycle or two in the future. I've been doing the same movements for almost two years now.

colman1212

So quick question.

I've started doing some mobillity stuff recently. I don't know much about this aside from the fact that I need to do it as I do a lot of pressing and want my shoulders to be healthy.
On upper body days, before my training session, I've been doing:
Scap push ups
Band pullaparts
Shoulder Dislocates
I train upper body 3 days a week so I do them on these days.
Is this too much or is it a good thing?
Cheeeeers!

cmyk

colman1212 wrote: »

I've started doing some mobillity stuff recently. I don't know much about this aside from the fact that I need to do it as I do a lot of pressing and want my shoulders to be healthy.

Yep, good plan, most only start doing them when they start getting issues.

colman1212 wrote: »

On upper body days, before my training session, I've been doing:
Scap push ups
Band pullaparts
Shoulder Dislocates

You could stick in some thoracic mobility/postural work in there too first, things like quadruped extensions, cat/camels, extensions on foam roller, seated thoracic rotations. Youtube is your friend for all of those.

colman1212 wrote: »

I train upper body 3 days a week so I do them on these days.
Is this too much or is it a good thing?
Cheeeeers!

Depends on how you've structured it, apologies if you've already posted your routine.

colman1212

cmyk wrote: »

Depends on how you've structured it, apologies if you've already posted your routine.

I log everything I do in the fitness logs here but at the mo its:
Monday: Back
Tues: Chest/Bis
Wed: Quads
Thurs: Shoulders
Fri: Chest or rest day
Sat: Hamstrings/Lowerback

Cheers mate. I'll google some of that stuff.

cmyk

colman1212 wrote: »

I log everything I do in the fitness logs here but at the mo its:
Monday: Back
Tues: Chest/Bis
Wed: Quads
Thurs: Shoulders
Fri: Chest or rest day
Sat: Hamstrings/Lowerback

Had a v.quick skim just over the last couple of pages, you seem to mix up the exercises a bit?

In short I think you've got your horizontal push/pull/protraction/retraction pretty roughly balanced between chest and back days, maybe skewed a little too much towards push even. Adding in your shoulder day however pushes a big bias on pushing and internal rotation.

Shoulders are taking a lot of work, how long have you been doing that program?

Maybe you're aware of it as you seem to have thrown in some sort of compensatory work here and there?

colman1212

cmyk wrote: »

Had a v.quick skim just over the last couple of pages, you seem to mix up the exercises a bit?

In short I think you've got your horizontal push/pull/protraction/retraction pretty roughly balanced between chest and back days, maybe skewed a little too much towards push even. Adding in your shoulder day however pushes a big bias on pushing and internal rotation.

Shoulders are taking a lot of work, how long have you been doing that program?

Maybe you're aware of it as you seem to have thrown in some sort of compensatory work here and there?

I've been doing this program about 4 weeks. Just started a strength training phase. Was cutting bodyfat prior to this program. My PT generally sets out my diet and training. I change it up about every 8 weeks. For chest day (push) I have a back day (pull). Then I also have a chest and back day (push/pull). But yes I have a shoulder/tri's day which is all push. I currently do chest twice a week as its an area thats lagging behind the rest so needs a little more work.

irish son

I just got back into going regularly the last month after doing very little for over a year. I'm just wondering what people think of my programme.

I go 3 days a week with at least a day off in between doing full body workouts.

Day 1: Squats 4 sets 6-10 reps
Db bench press 4 sets 6-10 reps
Overhand grip bent over rows 4 sets 6-10 reps
BB shoulder press 4 sets 6-10 reps
some kind of bicep and tricep exercise supersets 2 sets of each 10-12
Calf raises 2 sets 12-15 reps

Day 2: Deadlift 4 sets 6-10 reps
Incline db bench press 4 sets 6-10 reps
Lat pulldowns 4 sets 6-10 reps
Biceps and triceps supersets 2 sets 10-12 reps
Core 2/3 exercises 2/3 sets

Day 3: Squat 4 sets 6-10 sets
Bb bench press 4 sets 6-10 reps
Underhand grip bent over rows 4 sets 6-10 reps
Db shoulder press 4 sets 6-10 reps
Biceps and triceps supersets 2 sets 10-12 reps
Shrugs 2 sets 12-15 reps

I do some form of cardio about 2/3 times a week, more or less whenever I feel like it. I'm cutting at the moment with this routine as the bodyfat was a bit high and I'm not far off where I want to be now in terms of bodyfat, hopefully just another 2/3 weeks. Should I stick with this same routine and increase calories or should I also switch to a split routine when bulking?

Thoughts?

cmyk

colman1212 wrote: »

I've been doing this program about 4 weeks. Just started a strength training phase. Was cutting bodyfat prior to this program. My PT generally sets out my diet and training. I change it up about every 8 weeks. For chest day (push) I have a back day (pull). Then I also have a chest and back day (push/pull). But yes I have a shoulder/tri's day which is all push. I currently do chest twice a week as its an area thats lagging behind the rest so needs a little more work.

Sorry Colman, slow to get looking at this again...actually requires a little thinking and looking back and forward.

How are your shoulders currently coping with that? If it was me I'd make one simple change for a start to shoulder day, swap out the upright rows for more of an external rotation exercise and balance them out, something like the following...

A. DB Shoulder Press
B. Cuban Press/Prone Trap Raise
C. Front Raises
D. Rear Delt Flyes

thegreatiam

thegreatiam wrote: »

Bump from earlier:

• 1. The objective of the program.
  Increase strength, flexibility.
• 2. Your current stats...age, weight etc etc.
  34, 90kgs, height 182cm
• 3. The program obviously.
  Work out A
  Squat, 3x8 (currently 65kgs)
  Bench,3x8 (currently 55kgs)
  lat pull down, 3x8 (currently 65kgs)
  dumbbell press 3x8-10 (currently 15kgs)
  rope pull downs 3x10-12 (currently 25kgs)
  rope face pulls 3x10-12 (currently 30kgs)
  (cable ab exercises, cuban rotations)
  Work out B
  Squat,3x8
  Incline dumbbell press/incline bench,3x8 (currently 20kgs)
  pendalay (was barbell row till last week)row 3x8 (currently 60kgs)
  military press 3x8 (currently 27kgs)
  Deadlift (was stiff leg till last week)1x5-8 (currently 65kgs)
  calf raises, 3x10-12 (currently 140kgs)
  (cable ab exercises, cuban rotations)
  
• 4. How you plan to implement it...how many sessions a week etc etc
  Currently alternating A-B 3 sessions a week. trying to add 2.5 kgs a session to each exercise.
  The ones listed as 8-10/10-12 are intended to increase reps if I i cannot increase weight.
  Weights are approximate as i dont have my notes, also they are still in a recovery phase, so right now im not pushing hard as I was when I stopped, hopefully ill be back 100% in 3 sessions.
  
  I also do muay thai and boxing and BJJ occasionally and, if I can, some yoga. But these are on hold while I sort out my schedule, back to it in a few weeks.

.

If there are any improvements to be made then Id listen.
But I would also like to be able to shorten the time, I find I have to rush through the last 2 exercises, the ab work and cable rotations sometimes skipping them.

Thanks

Posted it earlier,
Ill be back up to my highest weights since twisting my neck, on my next session.

Vet Thrower

Vet Thrower wrote: »

My goal is balanced strength development. In line with the advice in this thread, I am doing two days in the gym. One day is a hip dominant / upper body push day, and the other is a quad dominant / upper body pull day. Exercise selection changes each month.

I want to maintain a 2 : 1 ratio of hip / pull volume to quad / push volume, as I have imbalances I want to correct (weaker UB pull, LB hip dominant).

My question is how to maintain these ratios when exercise selection changes.

So, this month I am doing trap bar dead lifts and back squats (and accessory work), and am able to maintain a hip : quad ratio of 2 : 1.

Say next month, I do box squats as my main hip dominant exercise and double KB front squats as my main quad dominant exercise. I'll only be able to do 48kg in the front squats as this is as heavy as I can go in my gym.

This will throw my hip : quad ratio out of whack and it will be more like 3 : 1.

Should I just accept this and not worry about it as it is only for a month?

Should I do lighter box squats to compensate / or choose a hip dominant exercise that forces me to use lighter weights (e.g. RDL?)

Should I do more quad dominant accessory work to compensate?

I've worked out the weights I need to do in all exercises to keep these ratio where I need them, but this involves doing dumbbell front squats with reasonably heavy DBs - working up to 50k per hand.

Front squatting this much shouldn't be a problem, but I'm trying to figure out how to get the DBs into the rack position. I doubt I could clean them, and there aren't any handy ledges that I can use.

Anyone any ideas on this?

Vet Thrower

Sangre wrote: »

Open to correction here but I would have thought both trap bar dead lift and box squats were quad dominant.

I think...

It depends on how you do the trap bar DLs. They can be quad dominant, hip dominant, or somewhere in between.

As far as I understand them, box squats are all about using your hips and glutes though. At least this is how I was shown them - feet pointing forward, knees wide, sit back and kind of settle on your arse, then use the hips and glutes to get up.

Take this with a pinch of salt though. I wouldn't claim to be an authority on any of this.

CM24

http://renegadeinnercircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/BadIntentionsBook.pdf Jason Feruggia has made one of his programs free. I like the look of it, particularly the inclusion of lots of bodyweight exercises. However, I'm skeptical of starting it as the three main exercises throughout the program are trap bar dead, military press and bench press. That's fine by me but he has the military and bench press for the same set/rep scheme and in the same workout. Surely this isn't smart. If I set a PR in the military press I'd assume I'd be knackered for my benching?

Mickery

CM24 wrote: »

http://renegadeinnercircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/BadIntentionsBook.pdf Jason Feruggia has made one of his programs free. I like the look of it, particularly the inclusion of lots of bodyweight exercises. However, I'm skeptical of starting it as the three main exercises throughout the program are trap bar dead, military press and bench press. That's fine by me but he has the military and bench press for the same set/rep scheme and in the same workout. Surely this isn't smart. If I set a PR in the military press I'd assume I'd be knackered for my benching?

That was a good read, thanks.

amazingemmet

CM24 wrote: »

http://renegadeinnercircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/BadIntentionsBook.pdf Jason Feruggia has made one of his programs free. I like the look of it, particularly the inclusion of lots of bodyweight exercises. However, I'm skeptical of starting it as the three main exercises throughout the program are trap bar dead, military press and bench press. That's fine by me but he has the military and bench press for the same set/rep scheme and in the same workout. Surely this isn't smart. If I set a PR in the military press I'd assume I'd be knackered for my benching?

For years now I've either pushed pressed or military pressed before benching and I've had consistent progress on both. Took about 3 weeks of work outs to get used to iirc.

Zombienosh

So I'm struggling to come up with a full body routine at the moment. I've been looking at basing it around super sets but can't decide on leg work.
Anyone got any good examples of full body routines?
Here's what I'm thinking, 4 groups of super sets.

Squats
Pull ups

*Second Leg Exercise -->
Shoulder Press

Chest Press
Rows

Dips
Biceps

+ Various Core work

I'm not sure about the second leg exercise, I've been thinking about trap bar deadlifts, lunges, leg curls... I don't know anyone have any ideas?
As for sets and reps I was thinking 5x5 with Pyramids?

amazingemmet

Zombienosh wrote: »

So I'm struggling to come up with a full body routine at the moment. I've been looking at basing it around super sets but can't decide on leg work.
Anyone got any good examples of full body routines?
Here's what I'm thinking, 4 groups of super sets.

Squats
Pull ups

*Second Leg Exercise --> Leg curls or reverse lunges
Shoulder Press

Chest Press
Rows

Dips
Biceps

+ Various Core work

I'm not sure about the second leg exercise, I've been thinking about trap bar deadlifts, lunges, leg curls... I don't know anyone have any ideas?
As for sets and reps I was thinking 5x5 with Pyramids?

What are your goals?

Zombienosh

General hypertrophy/strength.

amazingemmet

How many days a week.

Also general hypertrophy/ strength isn't a goal its a general statement, give me some tighter goals and I can help more, Ie I want to raise my squat from 120kg to 140kg or I want to take my bodyweight from 78kg-83kg.

Zombienosh

I'm doing that 3 days a week, other days cardio and bodyweight stuff.
Mostly I'm trying to improve pull ups, But general strength/fitness athleticism is the best I can give you for a goal. I don't have anything specific I'm just having fun.

amazingemmet

The three day a week template of this http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-bastards-part3.html would suit you better then trying to bash out a weights program for yourself.

harpstilidie

Cardio: Bike- 15km or Treadmill- 5km.

1A. Lateral Pulldown-40kg, 4 sets of 15.
1B. Machine- 40kg, 4 sets of 15.

Vertical leg crunch- 4 sets of 20.
Side Bridge - 4 sets of 30 secs per side.

2A. Dumbbell Bent Over Row- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 15.
2B. Alternate Arm Dumbbell Press - 15lbs, 4 sets of 15.

Bicycle Crunches- 4 sets of 20.
Torso rotation with 8kg medicine ball- 4 sets of 20.

3A. Bicep Curl- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 10.
3B. Tricep Cable Press Down - 30lbs, 4 sets of 10.

Ab exercise (don't know name)- 4 sets of 20.
Hip Thrusters - 4 sets of 20.

Exercise Bike- 5km.

Ok, so I've been doing this workout (kindly adapted by Will) now for about 6 weeks and it's going really well. Since joining the gym in early March I've lost about 5 or 6kg in weight (hopefully fat loss) and gained some muscle especially my arms and my stomach is slightly flatter but no 6-pack yet. Should I start to vary my workout a bit with other exercises or just increase sets/reps or weight?

My diet is OK in my opinion. It could be better I know but I'm happy enough with it. I don't eat too much rubbish and have quite good self-control when it comes to junk food/takeaways etc. but I'm still enjoying my food and allow myself 1 takeaway a week. Snacks I maybe have some fruit or nuts, sometimes a biscuit. Thanks, Dan.