td's wont be allowed to take communion if they vote for abortion.

jmayo

super_furry wrote: »

Can paedophile priests still get communion?

Won't some of them be the ones dishing it out ?

As for confiscation of property to pay victims, we should have taken a leaf out of the Canadians book and prevented this cr** about allowing them put the property into the like of trusts (some of which are managed by some very well connected people in this state) and just had them sold off.

My name is URL

awec wrote: »

In response the TDs should threaten to remove the tax loopholes that allow the churches to get away with contributing nothing to society despite raking in the cash

If they want to stoop to such levels and get involved in politics then hit them where it will hurt them the most, in their pocket. Tax them with every tax imaginable.

That should already be the case though.. regardless of any empty threats by the church.

Do you honestly think that FG (a Christian Democratic party) would have any desire to remove tax loopholes for the church?

Duckjob

The catholic church aren't fascists - Fascists dress up in black and go around telling people what to do, whereas......... MORE DRINK!


Serious comment:

As pointed out elsewhere on this thread - an organisation that has spent the last number of decades routinely covering up the rape and buggery of children by its members lecturing us on morals: Just LOL

iDave

Those wafers are horrible anyway. Always though a bit of cheese on them would improve them no end. The fcukers never share the wine either!

Gambas

Funnily enough they never seem to have a problem shovelling it into Bertie's mouth despite his less than whiter-than-white history

dixiefly

I quickly read the articles linked but couldnt see where it is stated that the TD's wont be allowed communion if they vote for the abortion bill.

Am I missing it in the articles or is there another link to their statements where they say what is in the OP?

the culture of deference

Duckjob wrote: »

Serious comment:

As pointed out elsewhere on this thread - an organisation that has spent the last number of decades routinely covering up the rape and buggery of children by its members lecturing us on morals: Just LOL

Don't forget they are responsible for the murder of children, and the forced selling of 300,000 babies stolen from their parent.

They could not afford to have an entirely different version of Christianity spreading within the borders of what it regarded as its domain. And it could not allow people to begin to question the teachings of the Church.

orestes

It's hardly a last gasp effort, it's very much in line with catholic dogma. It's their club, and it's their rules, and the pope makes the rules. The pope says abortion is wrong - therefore practicing catholics can't support abortion. The catholic church isn't a pick-and-mix where you choose which pieces of it you want to follow, if you want to be a part of the club then you either agree with the pope no matter what (Papal infallibility) or you're not doing it right.

For a country so obsessed with the catholic church it's weird how many people here don't understand the basics of being a catholic.

kylith

the culture of deference wrote: »

Don't forget they are responsible for the murder of children, and the forced selling of 300,000 babies stolen from their parent.

Not to mention the enslavement of thousands of women.

Boombastic

orestes wrote: »

It's hardly a last gasp effort, it's very much in line with catholic dogma. It's their club, and it's their rules, and the pope makes the rules. The pope says abortion is wrong - therefore practicing catholics can't support abortion. The catholic church isn't a pick-and-mix where you choose which pieces of it you want to follow, if you want to be a part of the club then you either agree with the pope no matter what (Papal infallibility) or you're not doing it right.

For a country so obsessed with the catholic church it's weird how many people here don't understand the basics of being a catholic.

We do things differently, we're Irish Catholics dontcha know.. :pac:

Weddings, communions in fact any ceremony where we get to dress up, we are upstanding Catholics, but actually believing :rolleyes:

padd b1975

All the usual suspects tripping over themselves to post up the same old insulting bull.

Nothing changed since the last time you posted it guys and nothing will change now.

admiralofthefleet

so they say nothing when scum like brady swears boys to secrecy yet are very quick out of the trap when it comes to them being upset

animals

VinLieger

orestes wrote: »

It's hardly a last gasp effort, it's very much in line with catholic dogma. It's their club, and it's their rules, and the pope makes the rules. The pope says abortion is wrong - therefore practicing catholics can't support abortion. The catholic church isn't a pick-and-mix where you choose which pieces of it you want to follow, if you want to be a part of the club then you either agree with the pope no matter what (Papal infallibility) or you're not doing it right.

For a country so obsessed with the catholic church it's weird how many people here don't understand the basics of being a catholic.

Especially when they are all in such a rush to put themselves down as catholic on the census......

P_1

orestes wrote: »

It's hardly a last gasp effort, it's very much in line with catholic dogma. It's their club, and it's their rules, and the pope makes the rules. The pope says abortion is wrong - therefore practicing catholics can't support abortion. The catholic church isn't a pick-and-mix where you choose which pieces of it you want to follow, if you want to be a part of the club then you either agree with the pope no matter what (Papal infallibility) or you're not doing it right.

For a country so obsessed with the catholic church it's weird how many people here don't understand the basics of being a catholic.

Isn't membership of a religious sect (Catholic, Muslim etc) meant to supersede nationality?

I.e. you're supposed to be a Catholic Irishman as opposed to being an Irish Catholic or a Muslim Afghan as opposed to an Afghan Muslim.

My name is URL

Duckjob wrote: »

As pointed out elsewhere on this thread - an organisation that has spent the last number of decades routinely covering up the rape and buggery of children by its members lecturing us on morals: Just LOL

They're not lecturing you on morals. Presumably you don't claim to be a devout catholic.. unlike the TD's this ultimatum is aimed at?

Why should those gombeen hypocrites be given the opportunity to have their cake and eat it? If they are truly devout in their faith then they shouldn't really be supportive of abortion. I wonder how many will pander to the old fogeys they shake hands with after mass and how many will use logic when deciding on which way to vote.

Gunmonkey

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Some day in the, hopefully close, future we'll be able to laugh at this nonsense. A day when Fr Ted will appear to be a documentary.

Wait....you mean its NOT!! I've been basing my entire view of Catholic dogma off that series....

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

votes are secret. the church would have no way to tell who voted for it

*points to the sky* Sure wont the big man tell them.

fishy fishy

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Not true confession is not a blanket "I forgive you" you have to make up for your sins. If you are going to believe the mumbo jumbo they write the rules so it is up to them.

Although I don't know under what rule/belief they can tell TDs they are not entitled to the sacrament.

three hail marys and a glory be should cover it.

orestes

Boombastic wrote: »

We do things differently, we're Irish Catholics dontcha know.. :pac:

A lot of Irish "catholics" are far closer to being protestant than catholic, which is pretty weird given the history of this country.

"I'm catholic. Yeah I support gay marriage, divorce, abortion, sex before marriage, contraception, and I disagree with the pope about a load of other things and think the church has no right to tell people how to live their lives and that people should read the bible themselves and interpret it for themselves, but I'm still a catholic. "

"No you're not. Actually, that's far closer to protestantism than catholicism"

"DID YOU JUST CALL ME A FUKKING PROD?!"

*facepalm*

Boombastic

orestes wrote: »

A lot of Irish "catholics" are far closer to being protestant than catholic, which is pretty weird given the history of this country.

"I'm catholic. Yeah I support gay marriage, divorce, abortion, sex before marriage, contraception, and I disagree with the pope about a load of other things and think the church has no right to tell people how to live their lives and that people should read the bible themselves and interpret it for themselves, but I'm still a catholic. "

"No you're not. Actually, that's far closer to protestantism than catholicism"

"DID YOU JUST CALL ME A FUKKING PROD?!"

*facepalm*

Too True :pac:

the culture of deference

padd b1975 wrote: »

All the usual suspects tripping over themselves to post up the same old insulting bull.

Ah yes the usual bull

The Catholic church sold my child

Unmarried mother Philomena Lee was forced to give up her son to Irish nuns, who sold him on to rich Americans.

Philomena, tipsy on festive sherry, had revealed a secret she had kept for 50 years – she had a son she had never mentioned to anyone.



The reason for the secrecy was that he had been born outside of marriage in Ireland at a time when such things were considered shameful. She had given birth in a country convent at Roscrea in County Tipperary on 5 July 1952.



She was 18 "I had just left convent school," "I went in there when my mother died, when I was six and a half, and I left at 18 not knowing a thing about the facts of life. I didn't know where babies came from ... "


When her pregnancy became obvious, her family had Philomena "put away" with the nuns. After her baby, Anthony, was born, the mother superior threatened Philomena with damnation if ever she breathed a word about her "guilty secret". Terrified, she kept it quiet for more than half a century. "All my life I couldn't tell anyone. We were so browbeaten, it was such a sin. It was an awful thing to have a baby out of wedlock ... Over the years I would say 'I will tell them, I will tell them' but it was so ingrained deep down in my heart that I mustn't tell anybody, that I never did."


Philomena was one of thousands of Irish women sent to convents in the 1950s and 60s, taken away from their homes and families because the Catholic church said single mothers were moral degenerates who could not be allowed to keep their children.


Such was the power of the church, and of Archbishop John Charles McQuaid, that the state bowed before its demands, ceding responsibility for the mothers and babies to the nuns.



After giving birth, the girls were allowed to leave the convent only if they or their family could pay the nuns £100. It was a substantial sum, and those who couldn't afford it – the vast majority – were kept in the convent for three years, working in kitchens, greenhouses and laundries or making rosary beads and religious artefacts, while the church kept the profits from their labour.

padd b1975

5 pages of mostly aetheists foaming at the mouth and the OP still has not bothered to post up a link....

You gotta love AH

padd b1975

the culture of deference wrote: »

Ah yes the usual bull

The Catholic church sold my child

Unmarried mother Philomena Lee was forced to give up her son to Irish nuns, who sold him on to rich Americans.

Philomena, tipsy on festive sherry, had revealed a secret she had kept for 50 years – she had a son she had never mentioned to anyone.



The reason for the secrecy was that he had been born outside of marriage in Ireland at a time when such things were considered shameful. She had given birth in a country convent at Roscrea in County Tipperary on 5 July 1952.



She was 18 "I had just left convent school," "I went in there when my mother died, when I was six and a half, and I left at 18 not knowing a thing about the facts of life. I didn't know where babies came from ... "


When her pregnancy became obvious, her family had Philomena "put away" with the nuns. After her baby, Anthony, was born, the mother superior threatened Philomena with damnation if ever she breathed a word about her "guilty secret". Terrified, she kept it quiet for more than half a century. "All my life I couldn't tell anyone. We were so browbeaten, it was such a sin. It was an awful thing to have a baby out of wedlock ... Over the years I would say 'I will tell them, I will tell them' but it was so ingrained deep down in my heart that I mustn't tell anybody, that I never did."


Philomena was one of thousands of Irish women sent to convents in the 1950s and 60s, taken away from their homes and families because the Catholic church said single mothers were moral degenerates who could not be allowed to keep their children.


Such was the power of the church, and of Archbishop John Charles McQuaid, that the state bowed before its demands, ceding responsibility for the mothers and babies to the nuns.



After giving birth, the girls were allowed to leave the convent only if they or their family could pay the nuns £100. It was a substantial sum, and those who couldn't afford it – the vast majority – were kept in the convent for three years, working in kitchens, greenhouses and laundries or making rosary beads and religious artefacts, while the church kept the profits from their labour.

Not really what this thread is about though, is it?

orestes

P_1 wrote: »

Isn't membership of a religious sect (Catholic, Muslim etc) meant to supersede nationality?

I.e. you're supposed to be a Catholic Irishman as opposed to being an Irish Catholic or a Muslim Afghan as opposed to an Afghan Muslim.

I don't know about other religions, but in terms of catholicism then the church comes before any other authority and supersedes any other idea (catholic initially meant universal) - one of the main breaks between catholicism and protestantism was over rulers being over the church in terms of ruling their lands and people.

super_furry

iDave wrote: »

Those wafers are horrible anyway. Always though a bit of cheese on them would improve them no end. The fcukers never share the wine either!

Stingy bastards with the wine alright. You go to a protestant service and there's enough for everyone.

ScumLord

I found out the secret ingredient of communion isn't Jesus at all. It's just bread! I went down to the shop, bought some ciabatta, nailed two bits of wood together and had mass at home. It costs a fraction of the price of going out to mass and the quality of the body of christ is way better.

C.K Dexter Haven

Sarky wrote: »

That doesn't sound like something the Catholic Church would say. Priests decide what's right and wrong, the flock obeys. It's right there in the cathechism. There's none of this "conscience" stuff. Far too similar to "thinking for yourself".

Well, it surprised me too at the time- it was relating to the referendum on divorce- priest said at the time that it wasn't absolute that he must vote no.

VinLieger

padd b1975 wrote: »

5 pages of mostly aetheists foaming at the mouth and the OP still has not bothered to post up a link....

You gotta love AH

Im agnostic thank you very much

o1s1n

padd b1975 wrote: »

5 pages of mostly aetheists foaming at the mouth and the OP still has not bothered to post up a link....

You gotta love AH

Luckily us 'foaming atheists' have the power of internet search engines.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/priests-told-deny-communion-to-tds-who-support-abortion-29051662.html

mikom

Thank fuck I am Gluten intolerant.
The lord Jesus gives me awful acid reflux.

What a shower of retards.

Karona

What a crock of sh*t!!

Seriously, are we gonna go back to the 1940's?? Are they gonna get rid of contraception because it is against catholic law.... we are a country not a church so we shouldn't have to follow another law that isn't the law of the land.

I think the TD's should tell the pope where to to.

fishy fishy

ScumLord wrote: »

I found out the secret ingredient of communion isn't Jesus at all. It's just bread! I went down to the shop, bought some ciabatta, nailed two bits of wood together and had mass at home. It costs a fraction of the price of going out to mass and the quality of the body of christ is way better.

you shudda bought a bottle of Roija as well, to make it more authentic. Throw on a bit o'music and you'd be flying.

smileyj1987

They aren't missing out on much anyway . Now if they where getting some wine that would be a different story .

johnny_knoxvile

no communion for you sir...
please join the other que and take the first left for sexual abuse.

FamousSeamus

Politics and religion should have nothing to do with each other so this threat (is it really a threat if noone is really threatened??) should have no baring!!

iDave

Of course dont be surprised if this pointless threat holds sway. Remember this is the same country where not that long ago had a bunch of eejits looked directly at the Sun for religious reasons.

NS77

So:

Protection of foetus = yay!
Protection of children / abuse victims / unmarried mothers, etc. = nay!

conorhal

awec wrote: »

In response the TDs should threaten to remove the tax loopholes that allow the churches to get away with contributing nothing to society despite raking in the cash

If they want to stoop to such levels and get involved in politics then hit them where it will hurt them the most, in their pocket. Tax them with every tax imaginable.

I don't go to church, but I'm guessing that the church contributes a hell of a lot more to society then you do.
So yes, tax away and in doing so close those soup kitchens, homless outreach services, schools, comunity centers, care homes for the elderly etc. Yeah! That'll show them!

As for TD's that take communion and profess themselves 'member of the faith' who then vote for abortion, they're hypocrites if they expect to have it both ways. If they don't care for the rules, leave the church, I did, simple really!

padd b1975

o1s1n wrote: »

Luckily us 'foaming atheists' have the power of internet search engines.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/priests-told-deny-communion-to-tds-who-support-abortion-29051662.html

It reads to me as a bit of a 'solo run'.

Have the hierarchy in Ireland made any comment since the wording was finalised?

orestes

Karona wrote: »

What a crock of sh*t!!

Seriously, are we gonna go back to the 1940's?? Are they gonna get rid of contraception because it is against catholic law.... we are a country not a church so we shouldn't have to follow another law that isn't the law of the land.

I think the TD's should tell the pope where to to.

In terms of how quickly the country is reversing old catholic traditions I think we're actually moving astonishingly quickly to be honest. Contraception was only made readily available to everybody in the 80s, homosexuality was decriminalised in the 80s and gay marriage is gonna be happening soon, divorce was only legalised in the 90s, we pulled our embassy out of the Vatican recently for trying to get involved in our affairs again.

However, a large amount of the country still consider themselves catholic and put themselves down as catholic on the census, so the government has to take them into account since they are citizens, so their opinion does have to be considered. That's where referendums come into it. Hundreds of years of tradition can't just be overturned overnight, but it is being done very quickly when you consider the relative timeframes.

RobertKK

If a TD votes for abortion, then they TD is not a Catholic and is not a practrising Catholic.
A person who says they are Catholic and who go to mass everyweek, is not a Catholic if they don't live a Catholic life.

Voting for abortion puts one in conflict with Catholicism.

Jimminy Mc Fukhead

Dartz wrote: »

This isn't 1970. The ossified hierarchy will die before they realise the world has moved on, however.

If they've been on the gargle it would explain the over the top reaction

Jimminy Mc Fukhead

RobertKK wrote: »

If a TD votes for abortion, then they TD is not a Catholic and is not a practrising Catholic.
A person who says they are Catholic and who go to mass everyweek, is not a Catholic if they don't live a Catholic life.

Voting for abortion puts one in conflict with Catholicism.

no man condemns you mary, and neither do i

RobertKK

There was this whole debate over John Kerry who claims to be Catholic.

Newsmax reported on April 23, 2004:
A top Vatican official close to the Pope John Paul II, Cardinal Francis Arinze, emphasized today that priests must not give communion to pro-abortion politicians who claim to be Catholic.
Arinze, a Nigerian who has been mentioned as a possible successor to Pope John Paul II, did not comment specifically on whether presidential candidate John Kerry should be excommunicated. But the inference was clear - and Reuters news wire as well as others said the Cardinal's remarks were a clear shot across Kerry's bow. The cardinal left no doubt about Kerry by saying that an "unambiguously pro-abortion" politician "is not fit" to receive communion.
"If they should not receive, then they should not be given," he noted. The cardinal's directive "could influence the U.S. presidential race," Reuters observed.
Already several leading Catholic laity and clergy have told Kerry that he is excommunicated from the Church because of his abortion stance. Kerry, meanwhile, planned to campaign with pro-choice groups today and denounce President Bush's greatest success in human rights: a ban on gruesome partial-birth abortions.

orestes

Jimminy Mc Fukhead wrote: »

If they've been on the gargle it would explain the over the top reaction

It's not an over the top reaction, it's enforcing the rules of the catholic church. Catholics cannot support abortion, and non-catholics cannot receive communion.

Ash.J.Williams

RobertKK wrote: »

If a TD votes for abortion, then they TD is not a Catholic and is not a practrising Catholic.
A person who says they are Catholic and who go to mass everyweek, is not a Catholic if they don't live a Catholic life.

Voting for abortion puts one in conflict with Catholicism.

that's what pi$$es me off about the church, if they had any balls at all they would kick out homosexuals, divorcees, single mothers and single fathers....but they don't they pick and choose when it suits them...

RobertKK

Jimminy Mc Fukhead wrote: »

no man condemns you mary, and neither do i

Mary Magdalene was not an abortion practitioner.

frag420

Chucken wrote: »

They're the rules!

There are other instances where you cant receive communion too.

Its not a 'last gasp', the Church are just reminding them of the rules.

Maybe someone should remind them about the rules about not f*cking children and then hiding the perpetrators!!

Besides communion tastes like crap. When will they bring in flavoured communions or even better why not give out crisps instead. I may go watch that freakshow on a Sunday instead on sleeping in.

frAg

ilovesleep

RobertKK wrote: »

If a TD votes for abortion, then they TD is not a Catholic and is not a practrising Catholic.
A person who says they are Catholic and who go to mass everyweek, is not a Catholic if they don't live a Catholic life.

Voting for abortion puts one in conflict with Catholicism.

Bull-fcuking-sh1t,

The roman catholic church institute is an absolute farce.

It claims to support Jesus and God and goes about teaching about God's way.

But it doesn't stand for jesus and god.

Like, God, in the bible says for example:
to love your neighbour.
The catholic institute has contempt for gays.

In the bible, it says something like
- don't hurt others.
Yet some members of the priesthood rapes kids and there was other abuses under the churchs control.

The RCC that does not represent what it's supposed to stand for.

Someone can very much be a catholic, not support the RCC and believe in abortion.

RobertKK

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

that's what pi$$es me off about the church, if they had any balls at all they would kick out homosexuals, divorcees, single mothers and single fathers....but they don't they pick and choose when it suits them...

The church has no problem with homosexuals as people, it is homosexual sex as described in the bible.
One can be divorced and not marry again and so be in line with church teaching.
Single fathers and mothers have done the right thing, they didn't have their child killed in the womb and shouldn't be condemned for taking the right decision when it came to a life and death issue.

RobertKK

ilovesleep wrote: »

Bull-fcuking-sh1t,

The roman catholic church institute is an absolute farce.

It claims to support Jesus and God and goes about teaching about God's way.

But it doesn't stand for jesus and god.

Like, God, in the bible says for example:
to love your neighbour.
The catholic institute has contempt for gays.

In the bible, it says something like
- don't hurt others.
Yet some members of the priesthood rapes kids and there was other abuses under the churchs control.

They are no longer allowed to be a priest and are reported to the authorities.

The church has nothing against gays as people. It doesn't mean it has to swing in the wind to agree with your position on gay sex or marriage.