td's wont be allowed to take communion if they vote for abortion.

1ZRed

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Funerals, baptisms, confirmations, holy communions, community support, etc.


Oh you're one of those! Next time you need to visit a hospital, you should thank God for the catholic church. And when you're crying like a baby for a priest on your death bed.

I'd sooner be crying for medicine from a doctor than a priest for a prayer tbh

Ecce_Agnus_Dei

1ZRed wrote: »

But a 2000 year old book written about a Jewish super hero with magic powers will still be seen as 100% legit in a hundred years?

Riiiiiiiiight.....

The church has been through bigger challenges in her 2000 year history.

You do know about history, don't you? (assuming you get the chance to get away from porn, social media and cat videos on the internet)

Ecce_Agnus_Dei

1ZRed wrote: »

I'd sooner be crying for medicine from a doctor than a priest for a prayer tbh

And with that you've just demonstrated an ignorance that knows no bounds.

Doctors and priests serve very distinct roles.

awec

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

The church has been through bigger challenges in her 2000 year history.

You do know about history, don't you? (assuming you get the chance to get away from porn, social media and cat videos on the internet)

So you view this child abuse revelations as a "challenge" ?

Well, that kind of sums the problem up. Disgusting.

Your concern here is how can the church get over this, as opposed to the people whos lives were destroyed by the church. Sad and vile.

handlemaster

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

I'd say excommunicate the lot of them.

Anyone who votes in favour of pro-abortion legislation (party whip or not) should be hung out to dry.

You can't have people who have had the benefit of a Catholic upbringing, a Catholic education and a church that has been by their side through the most difficult of times; simply turn their back on their faith in the church's tempore necessitatis just because it's politically expedient to do so.

They should be hung out to dry. Let them grovel to get back under the church's wing.

This is funny but I guess the poster is serious. Its tragic that we still have people in a religion whos very teaching is forgiveness and understanding coming out with this BS. The church should first apologise in a meaning full way and acknowledge the terrible abuse and horrers it inflicted upon the irish people. Also pay up the monies owed to the abuse victims that was aggreed upon to the state.

The church can lecture and dictate no more; the people know what they are a group of people interested only in power and money.

Ecce_Agnus_Dei

awec wrote: »

So you view this child abuse revelations as a "challenge" ?

Well, that kind of sums the problem up. Disgusting.

Sigh.

*pats awec the little boy on the head

1ZRed

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

The church has been through bigger challenges in her 2000 year history.

You do know about history, don't you? (assuming you get the chance to get away from porn, social media and cat videos on the internet)

I know that education is destroying religion because now we don't actually believe in magic and superstition to fill the gaps. There's no coincidence there and you can look to Africa to see how religion is rising fast because of a lack of education which makes people ripe for exploitation by the church.

I fail to see what good religion is doing these days. It's just trying to repress everyone to gain more power and money and failing as the years go by.

Cody Pomeray

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

I won't repeat the libel by quoting the offending post. But if any of you cool and with-it dudes/dudesses have information that the DPP don't have, I'd go straight to your local garda station without delay.

Until then, put up or shut up.

Grayson wrote: »

Could you at least reference it so we have some idea what you're talking about.

"I won't say who said what, but they should be ashamed with themselves" :rolleyes:

One poster has been insisting that Seán Brady "facilitated" child abuse.

There was an exchange a while back where I was arguing he was negligent in his duty, but that's not the same as going out and positively facilitating child abuse, which implies a substantial corroboration or teamwork in grooming children. The latter probably is libelous in fairness...

awec

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Sigh.

*pats awec the little boy on the head

What? Is that all you have to offer here?

Your concern here is the church and how it overcomes this challenge. That is disgusting.

Sarky

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

• a person who throws away the consecrated Eucharistic species or takes and retains them for a sacrilegious purpose;

So just sit through one of those half-hour masses to get a eucharist and then solemnly insert it into a pile of dog sh*t. If you're feeling lazy, you might be able to get a eucharistic minister to go to the mass for you.

Anyway, I'm sure all you hip and cool with-it dudes and dudesses have lots of original thinking under your belts that the church hasn't addressed.

That was powerfully un-cool. But yes, there's a whole world that your church hasn't been paying attention to. So much wonderful knowledge, customs, subcultures, arts and discovery, you probably couldn't imagine half of it.

I'll be having me some of that please instead of your dry, lifeless dogma, thanks.

Smidge

I've just got here but.........

Has anyone called E.A.D a troll yet?

Ecce_Agnus_Dei

handlemaster wrote: »

This is funny but I guess the poster is serious. Its tragic that we still have people in a religion whos very teaching is forgiveness and understanding coming out with this BS. The church should first apologise in a meaning full way and acknowledge the terrible abuse and horrers it inflicted upon the irish people. Also pay up the monies owed to the abuse victims that was aggreed upon to the state.

The church can lecture and dictate no more; the people know what they are a group of people interested only in power and money.

The church are perfectly entitled to lobby government (including individuals and political parties) for change and social justice.

You talk about "forgiveness and understanding" -- that's only half the story. God is to be loved as well as feared. The church warns that God will judge and condemn those who live lives of debauchery, dishonesty, corruption and immorality. Of course you won't hear about this too much these days because angry God has been air-brushed out of the curriculum and the "nice bits" are emphasised. A failure on the part of those in charge of the catechesis of the faithful and their children.

murraykil

Grayson wrote: »

Could you at least reference it so we have some idea what you're talking about.

"I won't say who said what, but they should be ashamed with themselves" :rolleyes:

I think they are referring to how it was not a crime to not report a crime when Brady was there while children signing a vow of silence over their abuse at the hands of the paedophile priest.

It's shocking how easily some people can dismiss such a heinous act as knowing that widespread child abuse is taking place and ignoring it.

But it's all about personal salvation rather than real Christian values for such people. All they care about is following the ever changing rules that they are told will bring them salvation.

There is no room for compassion if it gets in the way of doctrine or some new rule or policy.

handlemaster

Smidge wrote: »

I've just got here but.........

Has anyone called E.A.D a troll yet?

They have to be as they are offering nothing of way of intelligence

1ZRed

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

And with that you've just demonstrated an ignorance that knows no bounds.

Doctors and priests serve very distinct roles.

Yeah, one is useful in keeping you alive and healthy and the other is, eh.. I'll get back to you when see the use of one

Smidge

handlemaster wrote: »

They have to be as they are offering nothing of way of intelligence

I was just checking because I hate to be the second person to say something;)

lazygal

I love me some debauchery. Yummy. Even nicer than magic bread.

Ecce_Agnus_Dei

Sarky wrote: »

But yes, there's a whole world that your church hasn't been paying attention to. So much wonderful knowledge, customs, subcultures, arts and discovery, you probably couldn't imagine half of it.

Do you have an example of this? I can assure you that the church are very up to speed on other faiths and cultures. The best minds (priest, religious and lay) study, research and teach at Vatican city (and elsewhere) and are well up on the matters you refer to.

It's a pity the Irish State which you swear allegiance to isn't so up to speed on the affairs of other nations and makes short-sighted diplomatic decisions (such as closing embassies, dishonestly citing "financial reasons")

Sarky

Smidge wrote: »

I've just got here but.........

Has anyone called E.A.D a troll yet?

Trolling is an art form requiring wit and style. That guy has so far displayed less of either than an east-European Eurovision entry.

Grayson

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Ancient Greece, unlike the Catholic Church, hasn't survived the test of time now, has it?

Why don't you atheists feck off to Greece where you can wallow in your nihilism to your hearts' content?

Socrates taught Plato. Plato taught Aristotle. Plato also founded the Academy, one of the worlds first universities.

Most modern church doctorine is platonism that was modified by St. Thomas Aquinias and St. Augustine. They spent years trying to adapt an athiests philosophy to christianity to try and validate christianity.

The first person to posit that an eternal soul existed was a greek, Pythagoras. The jews hadn't even done that. They adopted that.

You owe the Greeks for most modern christian thinking.

Smidge

lazygal wrote: »

I love me some debauchery. Yummy. Even nicer than magic bread.

A decade of the rosary for you, Jezebel :P

Grayson

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Do you have an example of this? I can assure you that the church are very up to speed on other faiths and cultures. The best minds (priest, religious and lay) study, research and teach at Vatican city (and elsewhere) and are well up on the matters you refer to.

It's a pity the Irish State which you swear allegiance to isn't so up to speed on the affairs of other nations and makes short-sighted diplomatic decisions (such as closing embassies, dishonestly citing "financial reasons")

You mean when they find an organisation has been sheltering child abusers? damn right I'd shut down the embassy.

Smidge

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Do you have an example of this? I can assure you that the church are very up to speed on other faiths and cultures. The best minds (priest, religious and lay) study, research and teach at Vatican city (and elsewhere) and are well up on the matters you refer to.

It's a pity the Irish State which you swear allegiance to isn't so up to speed on the affairs of other nations and makes short-sighted diplomatic decisions (such as closing embassies, dishonestly citing "financial reasons")

Okay..

Sarky

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Do you have an example of this? I can assure you that the church are very up to speed on other faiths and cultures. The best minds (priest, religious and lay) study, research and teach at Vatican city (and elsewhere) and are well up on the matters you refer to.

It's a pity the Irish State which you swear allegiance to isn't so up to speed on the affairs of other nations and makes short-sighted diplomatic decisions (such as closing embassies, dishonestly citing "financial reasons")

I don't recall swearing allegiance to any particular state, unless you count the internet. Well, there was that time I was forced to undergo confirmation as a Catholic and nobody would listen to my protests, but we all know the Vatican is a fraud state so that doesn't count.

But please keep typing. Your butthurt over seeing Catholicism dying on its arse in this country is pretty cathartic.

Cody Pomeray

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

that's only half the story. God is to be loved as well as feared. The church warns that God will judge and condemn those who live lives of debauchery, dishonesty, corruption and immorality. Of course you won't hear about this too much these days because angry God has been air-brushed out of the curriculum and the "nice bits" are emphasised.

your God must be a very unhappy man

Grayson

Smidge wrote: »

Now we KNOW you are messing....

The Irish state isn't up to speed on it's OWN affairs never mind the affairs of any where else.

And i can't think of anyone who'd swear allegiance to it. We're not americans.

1ZRed

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Do you have an example of this? I can assure you that the church are very up to speed on other faiths and cultures. The best minds (priest, religious and lay) study, research and teach at Vatican city (and elsewhere) and are well up on the matters you refer to.

It's a pity the Irish State which you swear allegiance to isn't so up to speed on the affairs of other nations and makes short-sighted diplomatic decisions (such as closing embassies, dishonestly citing "financial reasons")

True, it's an awful shame we're so behind on things like proper abortion legislation and gay marriage to say the least, but obviously these things take a second seat to a few holy club houses being closed.

It's such a shame

handlemaster

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

The church are perfectly entitled to lobby government (including individuals and political parties) for change and social justice.

You talk about "forgiveness and understanding" -- that's only half the story. God is to be loved as well as feared. The church warns that God will judge and condemn those who live lives of debauchery, dishonesty, corruption and immorality. Of course you won't hear about this too much these days because angry God has been air-brushed out of the curriculum and the "nice bits" are emphasised. A failure on the part of those in charge of the catechesis of the faithful and their children.

Your putting on quiet a show.. its a good laugh. You didnt actually reply to what I was saying. By all mean keep up the act but make it more interesting by keep on topic and answering what posters are saying... it keeps it more real

Ecce_Agnus_Dei

Grayson wrote: »

Socrates taught Plato. Plato taught Aristotle. Plato also founded the Academy, one of the worlds first universities.

Most modern church doctorine is platonism that was modified by St. Thomas Aquinias and St. Augustine. They spent years trying to adapt an athiests philosophy to christianity to try and validate christianity.

The first person to posit that an eternal soul existed was a greek, Pythagoras. The jews hadn't even done that. They adopted that.

You owe the Greeks for most modern christian thinking.

Ancient Greece is a nice trip on the tourist trail, but it's long gong. It doesn't exist anymore. Ancient Greece (like Ancient Rome) is history that has been successfully appropriated by the Holy See.

The Vatican is a living, breathing entity that has been around for thousands of years and is the spiritual home to 1.3 billion of the world's people.

You should go to the Vatican museum some time and check out their collection of Greek artifacts.

handlemaster

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Ancient Greece is a nice trip on the tourist trail, but it's long gong. It doesn't exist anymore. Ancient Greece (like Ancient Rome) is history that has been successfully appropriated by the Holy See.

The Vatican is a living, breathing entity that has been around for thousands of years and is the spiritual home to 1.3 billion of the world's people.

You should go to the Vatican museum some time and check out their collection of Greek artifacts.

you should also go and see the place its dripping in gold and priceless artifacts.....

Ecce_Agnus_Dei

Sarky wrote: »

Your butthurt over seeing Catholicism dying on its arse in this country is pretty cathartic.

The future of catholicism in Ireland is by way of a smaller, truer church that is more outward looking and evangelical.

Catholicism goes way beyond your narrow-minded Irish perspective of what Catholicism is. There are 1.3 billion faithful the world over. This population is increasing as is the number of priests and religious.

awec

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

The church are perfectly entitled to lobby government (including individuals and political parties) for change and social justice.

What would the church know about social justice?

Sarky

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

The future of catholicism in Ireland is by way of a smaller, truer church that is more outward looking and evangelical.

Catholicism goes way beyond your narrow-minded Irish perspective of what Catholicism is. There are 1.3 billion faithful the world over. This population is increasing as is the number of priests and religious.

And decreasing sharply every winter, despite the care we all provide to the elderly. Go on, say something else. Ooh, like the child abuse scandals were the fault of sexy children.

awec

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

The future of catholicism in Ireland is by way of a smaller, truer church that is more outward looking and evangelical.

Catholicism goes way beyond your narrow-minded Irish perspective of what Catholicism is. There are 1.3 billion faithful the world over. This population is increasing as is the number of priests and religious.

Surely then it is in the best interest of catholicism in Ireland to have justice served on the church?

murraykil

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Do you have an example of this? I can assure you that the church are very up to speed on other faiths and cultures. The best minds (priest, religious and lay) study, research and teach at Vatican city (and elsewhere) and are well up on the matters you refer to.

It's a pity the Irish State which you swear allegiance to isn't so up to speed on the affairs of other nations and makes short-sighted diplomatic decisions (such as closing embassies, dishonestly citing "financial reasons")

If you are interested in dishonesty and financial matters look no further than the Vatican bank! :rolleyes:

Nodin

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Ancient Greece is a nice trip on the tourist trail, but it's long gong. It doesn't exist anymore. Ancient Greece (like Ancient Rome) is history that has been successfully appropriated by the Holy See.

The Vatican is a living, breathing entity that has been around for thousands of years and is the spiritual home to 1.3 billion of the world's people.

You should go to the Vatican museum some time and check out their collection of Greek artifacts.

Or take a tour of some of the old papal residences. Very interesting taste in art, had the popes.

Death and Taxes

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

I won't repeat the libel by quoting the offending post. But if any of you cool and with-it dudes/dudesses have information that the DPP don't have, I'd go straight to your local garda station without delay.

Until then, put up or shut up.

It certainly is not libelous to state that mr sean brady enabled a paedophile preiest to rape and abuse dozens if not hundreds of children, this is the Mr Brady thatb now wants to lecture the rest of us on matters of morality and social justice.
The man is an abomination and deserves nothing but contempt for his role in allowing and enabling the sexual abuse of children.

Sarky

Nodin wrote: »

Or take a tour of some of the old papal residences. Very interesting taste in art, had the popes.

My favourite pope is Pious II, because he wrote a buttload of porn, was friends with Dracula, and his real name, Aenas, sounds like "anus".

Madam

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

You can't have people who have had the benefit of a Catholic upbringing, a Catholic education and a church that has been by their side through the most difficult of times; simply turn their back on their faith in the church's tempore necessitatis just because it's politically expedient to do so

You are living in the 21st century?

'Catholic education and a church that has been by their side through the most difficult of times;'

Now that made me smile - your being serious now are you? your not coming back with 'ah I was only kidding ya!

belcampprisoner

in my day they would have been excommunicated


http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/priest-facing-threat-of-excommunication-1.964597

murraykil

Eamonn Casey would have remained a Bishop had he been abusing children rather than starting a family!

Cody Pomeray

awec wrote: »

What would the church know about social justice?

Comments like this make me think there is indeed no place for rational discussion in AH.

Social Justice is a term that comes from the Catholic Church itself, through the Jesuit line. It is alive today through liberation theology, although liberation theology fell out of vogue with the previous 2 popes.

If criticism of the Catholic Church is to be meaningful, it has to start with being realistic and honest.

We\'re never going to get anywhere, and we're never going to be able to convince Catholics to change if we dismiss every last whit of the Catholic Church as being evil and malicious.

Another poster said something previously along the line of what would the Church know about culture? Mad stuff, people should look at what they're saying before they dive in with silly statements.

jimd2

greenpilot wrote: »

Just heard this on RTE. Is this the last gasp of a dying church?

Just to let people know, I have pm'd the moderators twice about this thread because it is total bullsh!t. Nothing done about it...

I am not a frequenter of After Hours but I would have thought that there would be some sort of standards. And I see they closed a thread in which a few people were having a bit of a banter about a one night stand!

murraykil

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Comments like this make me think there is indeed no place for rational discussion in AH.

Social Justice is a term that comes from the Catholic Church itself, through the Jesuit line. It is alive today through liberation theology, although liberation theology fell out of vogue with the previous 2 popes.

If criticism of the Catholic Church is to be meaningful, it has to start with being realistic and honest.

We\'re never going to get anywhere, and we're never going to be able to convince Catholics to change if we dismiss every last whit of the Catholic Church as being evil and malicious.

Another poster said something previously along the line of what would the Church know about culture? Mad stuff, people should look at what they're saying before they dive in with silly statements.

It's the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church that needs to change, not the Catholics themselves, except the ones who love and support the hierarchy which facilitated decades of abuse.

Don't expect to be taken seriously when it offensive to most right thinking people that facilitators of paedophilia are your moral guides.

murraykil

jimd2 wrote: »

Just to let people know, I have pm'd the moderators twice about this thread because it is total bullsh!t. Nothing done about it...

I am not a frequenter of After Hours but I would have thought that there would be some sort of standards. And I see they closed a thread in which a few people were having a bit of a banter about a one night stand!

It's called freedom of speech. You're reading the harsh truths about the Roman Catholic church that you cannot face up to, or choose to ignore; the evil and deceitful hierarchy that runs this other great institution.

Cody Pomeray

murraykil wrote: »

It's the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church that needs to change, not the Catholics themselves, except the ones who love and support the hierarchy which facilitated decades of abuse.

Totally agree.

I've had constructive conversations with Catholics... including my parents... about criticisms of the Church.

You don't establish a constructive dialogue by hammering everyone with clangers like "what would the Church know about social justice/ culture".

There are better ways to bring people round to your way of thinking. Criticize, please, but don't completely alienate everyone willing to listen with militant catholic-bashing. I'm sure there are Catholics on AH who just zone out when this comes up. The debate is shoved out of the forum by the extremists on both sides.

Again, not defending the RC Church, just my 2c.

Grayson

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Ancient Greece is a nice trip on the tourist trail, but it's long gong. It doesn't exist anymore. Ancient Greece (like Ancient Rome) is history that has been successfully appropriated by the Holy See.

The Vatican is a living, breathing entity that has been around for thousands of years and is the spiritual home to 1.3 billion of the world's people.

You should go to the Vatican museum some time and check out their collection of Greek artifacts.

I've been there. And for what it's worth they have some nice stuff. It's also scary how much they have there. To be honest, I'm not one to think they should sell all the stuff they have. If they did, it would do some short term good, but they'd have nothing left and there's still be plenty of suffering in the world.

But they do have a lot of money in the vatican bank. And that could be invested on more social organisations rather than the hedge funds it currently buys up.

You should read some philosophy. The word philosophy means the search for wisdom. It's about asking questions and thinking it through in a rational way.

Ecce_Agnus_Dei

Can I ask AH inhabitants, what's your problem with the "hierarchy"?

The "hierarchy" has been around for more than 2000 years. How long will your thoughts be around for?

And nobody's forcing you to listen to the "hierarchy".

Smidge

jimd2 wrote: »

Just to let people know, I have pm'd the moderators twice about this thread because it is total bullsh!t. Nothing done about it...

I am not a frequenter of After Hours but I would have thought that there would be some sort of standards. And I see they closed a thread in which a few people were having a bit of a banter about a one night stand!

Why do you want the thread closed?

Sarky

Ecce_Agnus_Dei wrote: »

Can I ask AH inhabitants, what's your problem with the "hierarchy"?

Not sure if serious or if just recently back from touring a different galaxy.