Sparring with a vicious opponent

Murphstock

I train in ITF Taekwondo. I'm 5 foot 5 and weigh near 94 KG. I usually spar on a biweekly basis. There's one guy, same height as me, that every time I, and everyone else, spar he just ravages me with punches. At this point I've suffered two minor concussions from him. I train really hard and I am always trying to redefine my technique, however, I can't seem to get a hit on this guy or dodge his attacks no matter how hard I try. In the type of sparring we do, we can only throw straight jabs, cross hands and uppercuts, not hooks. I don't want to be a b*!#@ and tell him to calm down or complain to the trainers, I want to make him stop throwing dirty punches in sparring by tactically defeating him. He's already gotten disqualified from fights for dirty punches and kicks.

Has anyone got any techniques, be it punches, kicks etc, to outmanoeuvre such an aggressive opponent? Would really appreciate any help anyone can offer.

Murphstock

Murphstock wrote: »

I train in ITF Taekwondo. I'm 5 foot 5 and weigh near 94 KG. I usually spar on a biweekly basis. There's one guy, same height as me, that every time I, and everyone else, spar he just ravages me with punches. At this point I've suffered two minor concussions from him. I train really hard and I am always trying to redefine my technique, however, I can't seem to get a hit on this guy or dodge his attacks no matter how hard I try. In the type of sparring we do, we can only throw straight jabs, cross hands and uppercuts, not hooks. I don't want to be a b*!#@ and tell him to calm down or complain to the trainers, I want to make him stop throwing dirty punches in sparring by tactically defeating him. He's already gotten disqualified from fights for dirty punches and kicks.

Has anyone got any techniques, be it punches, kicks etc, to outmanoeuvre such an aggressive opponent? Would really appreciate any help anyone can offer.

Only a warrior chooses pacifism, others are condemned to it

manga_10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYrq9rcPfPs

Double decker

I think you need to convince this lad to get into boxing or mma and get out of tkd.

If you are receiving concussions in training you should take a break from the sport.

There is no tkd way of beating a superior boxer , try all the machine gun side kicks you want.

I'd say tell him to cop the **** on with the contact too

Murphstock

Great video. Thanks

Murphstock

It's not even proper boxing, it's dirty boxing. I'm just looking for combinations to throw to counterattack

cowzerp

Murphstock wrote: »

It's not even proper boxing, it's dirty boxing. I'm just looking for combinations to throw to counterattack

Straight 1-2 is better than any wild stuff. Your quite heavy for your height so maybe lose weight and get faster.

Clive

Am I reading this correctly? He's using illegal techniques and hitting you hard enough to cause a concussion with them in normal class sparring?

Is your instructor not watching?

At any rate you have a few options:
1. Tell your instructor
2. Refuse to spar with him
3. Play dirty yourself
4. Either get far better than him or learn to keep him at a distance
5. Tell the class enforcer what's going on

I'd recommend a combination of options 1 and 4. If he's willing to throw illegal strikes in punching range it'll be very hard to handle unless there's a difference in skill levels, so focus on your footwork and kicks to keep him at a distance. Ask your instructor for some tips on it so that he knows what's going on.

Murphstock

Last summer I was 109 KG.

cowzerp

Murphstock wrote: »

Last summer I was 109 KG.

It's a start, you probably should be 70kg, I'm 5,7" not of skinny build and 80kg when out of shape.

Murphstock

cowzerp wrote: »

It's a start, you probably should be 70kg, I'm 5,7" not of skinny build and 80kg when out of shape.

I'm in college at the moment and find it difficult to try balance exercise with the workload. I try to eat as healthily as possible. Hopefully during the summer I can bring it down another 10 KG

laoch na mona

I used to do tkd and i'm almost certain its semi contact because i did ITF and we used semi contact gloves and i kept being docked points for contact

the lad sounds like an arse tell him to cop on. I surprised this is let happen I gave my friend a concussion once (total accident felt terrible after it) and the coach rightfully went mental at me

Murphstock

laoch na mona wrote: »

I used to do tkd and i'm almost certain its semi contact because i did ITF and we used semi contact gloves and i kept being docked points for contact

the lad sounds like an arse tell him to cop on. I surprised this is let happen I gave my friend a concussion once (total accident felt terrible after it) and the coach rightfully went mental at me

I don't wanna tell him to fight fair, I want to show him that if he wants to spar any of us, he's not gonna get away with fighting dirty. I know I'm asking a very specific question, but I don't believe in one person fights dirty so the other has to fight dirty aswell (In sparring anyway, street fight/ self defence situation totally different altogether). I took up TKD to make myself a better person, not to become the people that I hate the most. Biggest problem is, many of the girls we train with have told him to cop on but he doesn't see any problem with what he's doing.


Probably should have titled this thread the "douchebags we train with"

Clive

Murphstock wrote: »

I don't wanna tell him to fight fair, I want to show him that if he wants to spar any of us, he's not gonna get away with fighting dirty. I know I'm asking a very specific question, but I don't believe in one person fights dirty so the other has to fight dirty aswell (In sparring anyway, street fight/ self defence situation totally different altogether). I took up TKD to make myself a better person, not to become the people that I hate the most. Biggest problem is, many of the girls we train with have told him to cop on but he doesn't see any problem with what he's doing.

Probably should have titled this thread the "douchebags we train with"

To be honest if it's not just you he's doing it to, then you getting the best of him isn't going to change him. He'll stop sparring with you and go harder on other people. Guys like that always do. I don't know how your instructor is missing it, but somebody needs to tell him.

Double decker

Sounds like he needs a bully beat down maybe Clive and cowzerp should pay him a visit

CianRyan

I can definitely see someone from a hard discipline putting him in his place being a good thing, if even for the giggles.

belcampprisoner

increase your training at home


http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/98259-TKD-Sparring-Dealing-with-the-Dirty-Tricks

CIARAN_BOYLE

I don't to TKD but imo it is the coaches responsibility to ensure that club memebers aren't getting the **** kicked out of them.

If there was someone acting like that in the dojo I train (shotokan karate) he would be taken aside and talked to or taken aside and paired with one of the senior students and taught a few lessons about the importance of control in training.

You don't want injuries in training.

Now in terms of advice that doesn't involve talking to the instructor/senior student I would advise footwork. If you can side step over agressive punches (attack from the side) and throw kicks

antybots

We come across lunatics in training regularly in Muay Thai. Usually one of 3 things happens.

1. The instructor spots it and bars the lunatic from sparring until they learn self control.

2. people refuse to spar with the lunatic and he's left sparring with the A-class fighters who then

3. proceed to clean his clock the second he hits them hard.

After that the lunatic is left complaining to the instructor that the fighters are going too hard. This is because lunatics genuinely don't realise that they are lunatics and they usually can't learn to control themselves no matter how much you tell them.

My advise would to be to refuse to spar with him. If you go off learning techniques to hard spar with him, one of you will keep getting injured and that is most definitely NOT what sparring is about (even in Muay Thai but especially in TKD).

tritium

antybots wrote: »

We come across lunatics in training regularly in Muay Thai. Usually one of 3 things happens.

1. The instructor spots it and bars the lunatic from sparring until they learn self control.

2. people refuse to spar with the lunatic and he's left sparring with the A-class fighters who then

3. proceed to clean his clock the second he hits them hard.

After that the lunatic is left complaining to the instructor that the fighters are going too hard. This is because lunatics genuinely don't realise that they are lunatics and they usually can't learn to control themselves no matter how much you tell them.

My advise would to be to refuse to spar with him. If you go off learning techniques to hard spar with him, one of you will keep getting injured and that is most definitely NOT what sparring is about (even in Muay Thai but especially in TKD).

^^^^^^ what he said!

Seriously, if this is happening in training an your instructor isn't aware then let him know. If he won't pick up on it find a new instructor.

I'm assuming btw that this guy is a relative beginner- If he's more senior and behaves like this then I'd question why he's managed to stick around so long without realising/ learning control/ having a senior member talk to him or hand him his head. Is he genuinely aware there's an issue here?

Doesn't matter what system you train in the point of sparring (as opposed to competing) is to improve, not to get hurt.

_oveless_

Murphstock wrote: »

I train in ITF Taekwondo. I'm 5 foot 5 and weigh near 94 KG. I usually spar on a biweekly basis. There's one guy, same height as me, that every time I, and everyone else, spar he just ravages me with punches. At this point I've suffered two minor concussions from him. I train really hard and I am always trying to redefine my technique, however, I can't seem to get a hit on this guy or dodge his attacks no matter how hard I try. In the type of sparring we do, we can only throw straight jabs, cross hands and uppercuts, not hooks. I don't want to be a b*!#@ and tell him to calm down or complain to the trainers, I want to make him stop throwing dirty punches in sparring by tactically defeating him. He's already gotten disqualified from fights for dirty punches and kicks.

Has anyone got any techniques, be it punches, kicks etc, to outmanoeuvre such an aggressive opponent? Would really appreciate any help anyone can offer.

Does he do it on the sly so the instructor doesnt see or does the instructor allow it? A friend of mine had to leave a karate club recently because the instructor was letting one of his friends beat the sh*t out of beginners without gloves as well so if the instructor is in on it you should probably just walk away.

Tweedle Dumb

antybots wrote: »

2. people refuse to spar with the lunatic and he's left sparring with the A-class fighters who then

3. proceed to clean his clock the second he hits them hard.

Probably the quickest way to stop him. will never forget the day i hit one of the fighters too hard in sparring. was concentrating on technique, wasnt controlling power, he looked and me, hit a combo and said, if you wanna go hard, I'll go hard. never made the same mistake again.

Dyr

Murphstock wrote: »

I train in ITF Taekwondo. I'm 5 foot 5 and weigh near 94 KG. I usually spar on a biweekly basis. There's one guy, same height as me, that every time I, and everyone else, spar he just ravages me with punches. At this point I've suffered two minor concussions from him. I train really hard and I am always trying to redefine my technique, however, I can't seem to get a hit on this guy or dodge his attacks no matter how hard I try. In the type of sparring we do, we can only throw straight jabs, cross hands and uppercuts, not hooks. I don't want to be a b*!#@ and tell him to calm down or complain to the trainers, I want to make him stop throwing dirty punches in sparring by tactically defeating him. He's already gotten disqualified from fights for dirty punches and kicks.

Has anyone got any techniques, be it punches, kicks etc, to outmanoeuvre such an aggressive opponent? Would really appreciate any help anyone can offer.

You're completely wrongheaded on this IMO. The first step in dealing with someones unacceptable behaviour is making them aware that its unacceptable and thus giving them the opportunity to correct it. If you aren't going to say anything to him because you think you being a bollox by doing so then you're in no position to do anything else about it.

The idea of beating the guy within your ruleset when he's ignoring it is a bit silly. It's like a soccer player trying to "beat" a rugby player by playing soccer. Playing soccer only works if the other guy is playing soccer too.

Your techniques are probably dependent on a rule set, without the rule set being adhered to they are no longer an appropriate response.

So tell him to wind his neck in and if he doesn't then kick him in the bollix

Deise Musashi

In ITF TKD we always used control.

If someone isn't using control, clinch and clash heads by accident, drop elbows onto his feet when he kicks mid line and throw some elbows in sparring. They are in patterns, so a legitimate sparring technique.

If he's leggy and likes to kick, learn to sweep his feet (blow the legs off him with a low roundhouse) when he kicks high.

I trained ITF back in the day, my Instructor (Mr. Ger Hickey) was trained by a Heavyweight Champion from Tramore.

Neither of them would tolerate bullying in a spar.

Let them know that if they want a go, they get a proper go.

I remember sparring in other clubs and other styles, you always got a good hard testing from the lads.
If you could hang with their seniors and fighters then you were welcome. I was never bullied despite not being a great fighter, the will to hang in there and learn used to mean a lot.

Takedowns aren't allowed in TKD. Just shove him off his feet a few times when it goes too hard, stand on his toes if needs be. See how he likes getting up from being floored for excessive contact.

Peetrik

Deise Musashi wrote: »

If someone isn't using control, clinch and clash heads by accident

Trying to clash heads by 'accident' is just as likely for you to end up with a split eyebrow as it is for him.

Just tell him to cop on, if he doesn't then don't spar with him anymore.

Deise Musashi

I've been that soldier, and sometimes people will not be told!

Translate "accident" to "skull" and you are almost there.

I've never used a brow ridge to make contact, but some might!

I've sparred whoever turns up, not refusing any lad for his style!

irateghost

If your too shy to say anything just wait till he starts going too hard and really lose your temper and elbow him in the face a couple of times. That should at least bring the situation to the attention of your neglectfull trainers. (lack of control is the pettest of my peeves and funnily enough you'll encounter it more in light contact styles than full contact in my experience)

Doug Cartel

From my experience in judo, going toe to toe with this kind of guy just ends up in trouble. Assuming just telling him to cop on isn't an option, you're best off just doing something that disrupts him and makes him unsure of what to do next.

It's been a long time since I've done any striking, so I have no real idea how you would go about doing that in TKD. I suppose you could try using footwork to keep him in a position relative to you where he can't throw the technique he wants, and only try and hit when he's completely flat foototed.

boxer.fan

The way I see it there are two ways to deal with this.

1) Ask your instructor to watch you sparring, use the reason that you keep getting clipped & need tips to improve. This way you are not directly reporting yer man.

2) Go to a few boxing / kickboxing / thai classes. Here you will learn how to get clipped & more importantly how to deal with it.

By following these steps you may realize a few things: Your instructor helps you or he is rubbish? You might enjoy some full contact style training?

Best of luck anyway, let us know how you get on.

RoboRat

If it was me, the next time he went too hard, I would stop and tell him to ease up as its just sparring. If he doesn't, then walk away and don't spar with him again. If its brought up, then be sure to explain why.

There is no shame in looking out for yourself.

Either that of a full force kick in the stones or elbow to the face and see how he likes it.

I have sparred with these types and I always hold back, especially if they're new. But the moment they start going gung-ho I will warn them as its only fair to do so, sometimes they get a rush as they are just inexperienced. If they don't listen to the warning, I will stop holding back and then its lesson learnt.

darren ff

I'd tell him his technique is rubbish and he needs to practice more before moving to sparring. By humiliating his abilities and implying that its wasting your time sparring with him he may realize that dirty fighting will only show his inability.

I would also have a chat with a trainer and explain that this guy is seriously lacking discipline and needs his technique 'corrected".

If after a couple of weeks you see no improvement in the guys and trainers attitude I'd leave because its obvious there a fundamental flaw in the attitude there.