Overseas aid budget €623m

Silverado

Now isn't it interesting how €7m has created 100 IT jobs in Waterford this week and we are sending €623m overseas to aid Third World countries. http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/foreign-aid-squandered-by-the-pool-29023234.html

Well, lets see - if €7m can create 100 jobs in our job starved city then €70m could create 1000 jobs. Now that would really change things in Waterford.

Do we really have to send all this money overseas when we have our own poor here?

Boskowski

The 'poor' here are gettin plenty as it stands.

Whenever I see a thread like this coming up all I'm thinking is: ok we're complaining how the Germans/EU - whoever we like to believe is at fault - is imposing austerity aka not coughing up enough free money for us and I wonder how things were if roles were reversed.
Those threads answer that question typically.

old gregg

For sure some foreign aid is misspent but there are millions of people on this planet who have things far worse than we do. We don't have our neighbours dropping down dead in the street so why not help those who do.

jackfrostwins

It works out at roughly 400 euro a household of borrowed money a year that we are forced to pay. If you want to do that ,fine ,but keep me out of it.

Smiley Burnett

i thought ye all supported geldof and bono (and all those other left-wing protesters) when they were protesting and lobbying bush and blair and the other G8 leaders to increase spending on foreign aid???!!!

sarkozy

jackfrostwins wrote: »

It works out at roughly 400 euro a household of borrowed money a year that we are forced to pay. If you want to do that ,fine ,but keep me out of it.

You're not forced to pay it. The aid budget is voted on by the Dáil and Seanad every year through the process we call parliamentary democracy. If you disagree, contact your Dáil representative. However, Ipsos/MRBI polls show consistently high support for Ireland's overseas aid spending in the order of 82% of people.

And if you cared to read the issue below the headline - that is, by citing a very recent article reporting on the launch of the Irish Government's new policy on overseas aid rather than digging up an old and irrelevant article - you'll see that it's all about targeting the existing money in a focused way to ensure it goes where it's supposed to go and achieves what it's supposed to achieve. And, in fact, since the 2008 crash, our overseas aid budget has been cut by over 30% - disproportionately more than the budget of any other department, so the figure you quote has been arrived at in response to our ability to pay as a nation. Irish Aid's bottom line has been to, as much as possible, protect aid spending that directly affects lives of extremely poor people.

Overseas aid is part of our foreign policy. By promoting a better, more equal, peaceful and sustainable world for the worst off in far-flung parts of the globe, we actually contribute to creating a better, more peaceful and sustainable Ireland.

old gregg

jackfrostwins wrote: »

It works out at roughly 400 euro a household of borrowed money a year that we are forced to pay. If you want to do that ,fine ,but keep me out of it.

You wouldn't spend €400 to save a life?

jackfrostwins

sarkozy wrote: »

You're not forced to pay it. The aid budget is voted on by the Dáil and Seanad every year through the process we call parliamentary democracy. If you disagree, contact your Dáil representative. However, Ipsos/MRBI polls show consistently high support for Ireland's overseas aid spending in the order of 82% of people.

And if you cared to read the issue below the headline - that is, by citing a very recent article reporting on the launch of the Irish Government's new policy on overseas aid rather than digging up an old and irrelevant article - you'll see that it's all about targeting the existing money in a focused way to ensure it goes where it's supposed to go and achieves what it's supposed to achieve. And, in fact, since the 2008 crash, our overseas aid budget has been cut by over 30% - disproportionately more than the budget of any other department, so the figure you quote has been arrived at in response to our ability to pay as a nation. Irish Aid's bottom line has been to, as much as possible, protect aid spending that directly affects lives of extremely poor people.

Overseas aid is part of our foreign policy. By promoting a better, more equal, peaceful and sustainable world for the worst off in far-flung parts of the globe, we actually contribute to creating a better, more peaceful and sustainable Ireland.

Of course I'm forced to pay it, can I not pay it by having a word with one of our overpaid TD's? not a hope.This country's tax should be spent on this country's people not squandered on some pipe dream of 'world peace'. As for the poll you mention Irish people are so bet down with guilt I would pay no heed to it.

jackfrostwins

old gregg wrote: »

You wouldn't spend €400 to save a life?

Why don't you sell all your worldly belongings if you think that's the way it works.

old gregg

jackfrostwins wrote: »

Why don't you sell all your worldly belongings if you think that's the way it works.

What I do is irrelevant here. You've stated that you'd prefer to opt out of helping those who are dying through need. I'm just curious as to what price you would place on saving a life when it's a foreigner?

jackfrostwins

old gregg wrote: »

What I do is irrelevant here. You've stated that you'd prefer to opt out of helping those who are dying through need. I'm just curious as to what price you would place on saving a life when it's a foreigner?

Charity is not charity when forced. What you do is relevant if you believe 400 euro will save 1 life then surely you would stump up more yourself to save more lives if you think like that and are claiming the moral high ground over me.I see you introduce the word foreigner to try and make me out to be'racist'or 'xenophobic' lol;) This country's primary duty should be to its own people as should every country's, when we stop having collections for children hospitals and other deserving groups here then maybe we can think about foreign aid.

old gregg

jackfrostwins wrote: »

Charity is not charity when forced. What you do is relevant if you believe 400 euro will save 1 life then surely you would stump up more yourself to save more lives if you think like that and are claiming the moral high ground over me.I see you introduce the word foreigner to try and make me out to be'racist'or 'xenophobic' lol;) This country's primary duty should be to its own people as should every country's, when we stop having collections for children hospitals and other deserving groups here then maybe we can think about foreign aid.

There are so many holes in your logic here it's hard fathom. The topic is about Foreign Aid, hence we are talking about foreigners. You've said that you want to be "kept out of it", hence you want to be kept out of helping foreigners. Your logic not mine.

The awful state this country is in and our own poor are actually a completely different topic.

Media999

Silverado wrote: »

Now isn't it interesting how €7m has created 100 IT jobs in Waterford this week and we are sending €623m overseas to aid Third World countries. http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/foreign-aid-squandered-by-the-pool-29023234.html

Well, lets see - if €7m can create 100 jobs in our job starved city then €70m could create 1000 jobs. Now that would really change things in Waterford.

Do we really have to send all this money overseas when we have our own poor here?

Problem is people in this country think they are poor.

Poor f"ckers cant decide what car to take to work.

Poor f"ckers cant decide what food to eat from their packed fridge.

Poor f"ckers with their free educations and debt free degrees.

Poor f"ckers cant decide if they will have a latte of mocha f"ckin frappuccino today.

Poor f"ckers in front of their 500 euro laptops whinging about how they are worse off than people who watch their kids die from starvation.

Limestone1

old gregg wrote: »

There are so many holes in your logic here it's hard fathom. The topic is about Foreign Aid, hence we are talking about foreigners. You've said that you want to be "kept out of it", hence you want to be kept out of helping foreigners. Your logic not mine.

The awful state this country is in and our own poor are actually a completely different topic.

not true - we do not have this money so we are borrowing it and paying interest on it. This borrowing goes on our debt just like the money spent on our own poor ....

old gregg

Limestone1 wrote: »

not true - we do not have this money so we are borrowing it and paying interest on it. This borrowing goes on our debt just like the money spent on our own poor ....

You're missing the point a little. As an aside though, how do you know we specifically borrow the money used for foreign aid? That would be interesting and if true should have been a part of the article.

jmcc

It is Foreign Development Aid rather than Humanitarian Aid (the kind that saves lives in disasters). The two should be distinguished.

Regards...jmcc

Finnbar01

old gregg wrote: »

What I do is irrelevant here. You've stated that you'd prefer to opt out of helping those who are dying through need. I'm just curious as to what price you would place on saving a life when it's a foreigner?

If he wants to opt out of paying €400 euros he has every right to. You don't have the authority to demand he pay any of his money to anyone else.

And then trying to link his refusal to help as if he's against foreigners, is nothing but disgraceful race baiting and emotional blackmail.

Finnbar01

old gregg wrote: »

You're missing the point a little. As an aside though, how do you know we specifically borrow the money used for foreign aid? That would be interesting and if true should have been a part of the article.

The country has to borrow over €1 billion per month. Where else do you think the money for foreign aid comes from, a magic money tree?

jackfrostwins

Media999 wrote: »

Problem is people in this country think they are poor.

Poor f"ckers cant decide what car to take to work.

Poor f"ckers cant decide what food to eat from their packed fridge.

Poor f"ckers with their free educations and debt free degrees.

Poor f"ckers cant decide if they will have a latte of mocha f"ckin frappuccino today.

Poor f"ckers in front of their 500 euro laptops whinging about how they are worse off than people who watch their kids die from starvation.

What has the fact that some people have excess wealth got to do with my government taxing me to give money away to 'foreign aid'.I have no excess wealth and if I did it should be up to me what I want to do with it. If you feel so much for "starving children" sell your house,goods etc. and lead by example, it would be a beautiful thing to do and can you imagine the warm glow you would have inside you.;)

Addictedtogolf

old gregg wrote: »

What I do is irrelevant here. You've stated that you'd prefer to opt out of helping those who are dying through need. I'm just curious as to what price you would place on saving a life when it's a foreigner?

Is it just me or does anyone else feel a bit pissed off that all the millions that went to Africa in the 1980s and 90s built an image of Ireland as a great place. Then in the 20 years all these Africans that saw this decided..."Lets go to Ireland, they have plenty of money and will look after us"

Now try and get a taxi in Waterford city and the Irish taxi drivers cant make a weeks wages because of the problem that their job was taken by a foreigner...

How much a year do we pay in welfare to our overseas friends that decided to live here?

Next time you donate to a charity fund or get a taxi in Waterford think of this. Just my opinion.

old gregg

Finnbar01 wrote: »

If he wants to opt out of paying €400 euros he has every right to. You don't have the authority to demand he pay any of his money to anyone else.

And then trying to link his refusal to help as if he's against foreigners, is nothing but disgraceful race baiting and emotional blackmail.

Wrong tree there. I'm not demanding he do anything. I'll disregard your second comment as it doesn't warrant otherwise.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

The country has to borrow over €1 billion per month. Where else do you think the money for foreign aid comes from, a magic money tree?

It was more a specific accounting question. I have borrowings to keep a roof over my head, I don't have borrowings to keep food on the table or indeed to support charity if I wish.

Finnbar01

old gregg wrote: »

Wrong tree there. I'm not demanding he do anything. I'll disregard your second comment as it doesn't warrant otherwise.

You did make demands on him and tried to lay a guilt trip on him when he disagreed with you. As for disregarding my second comment, you can do that if you want, doesn't mean I was wrong though

It was more a specific accounting question. I have borrowings to keep a roof over my head, I don't have borrowings to keep food on the table or indeed to support charity if I wish.

You wanted to know how the OP knows where the foreign aid money comes from and I told you. I didn't mention anything about your 'borrowings' whatsoever.

repsol

Simple solution to this argument. Place a tick box on taxation forms/ social welfare applications. Let each individual indicate if they wish to donate or not. Deduct the donations and send it off overseas. Bet most Irish people will not tick the box. Quoting surveys is a waste of time, because people will lie because they don't want some lefty branding them a racist. Let those who are so worried about Africa pay to ease their conscience . Personally, I don't give them too much thought. Famine is natures way of telling you to move somewhere with a more favourable climate and stop having kids you cannot feed. If you don't want to see kids in Africa starving,switch channels when it's on the TV and give your money to Crumlin Children's Hospital.

sarkozy

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

Is it just me or does anyone else feel a bit pissed off that all the millions that went to Africa in the 1980s and 90s built an image of Ireland as a great place. Then in the 20 years all these Africans that saw this decided..."Lets go to Ireland, they have plenty of money and will look after us"

Now try and get a taxi in Waterford city and the Irish taxi drivers cant make a weeks wages because of the problem that their job was taken by a foreigner...

How much a year do we pay in welfare to our overseas friends that decided to live here?

Next time you donate to a charity fund or get a taxi in Waterford think of this. Just my opinion.

No.

jackfrostwins wrote:

Charity is not charity when forced.

'Official Development Assistance', which we're talking about, is not charity. It's an investment in a more prosperous, peaceful and just world. We are part of the international community, and an elite club of 'developed nations'. As such, official development assistance is our membership fee to the international community - it's the clever thing to do, and the moral thing to do. As a country highly integrated with the global economy, we can only prosper when the world does, and so this is an investment in a better Ireland. This is not, by your definition, charity.

As I said, the aid budget is democratically voted on by the Oireachtas every year. In our republican democracy, this means citizens accept this spending. It's not your right to opt out of it, but it is your right to inform your Oireachtas representatives that you do not wish to pay it. So stop talking rubbish. Of course, you're free to privately support whatever cause you like from your personal, private resources (and get tax relief on it, by the way).

old gregg

Finnbar01 wrote: »

You did make demands on him and tried to lay a guilt trip on him when he disagreed with you. As for disregarding my second comment, you can do that if you want, doesn't mean I was wrong though.

Actually I didn't make any demands on him but if you wish to read it that way there's not much I can do about that.

You wanted to know how the OP knows where the foreign aid money comes from and I told you. I didn't mention anything about your 'borrowings' whatsoever.

No, you told me where you believe foreign aid money comes from and you used the word 'borrow'. It's logical that someone has the right to seek clarification on a broad statement like that. My borrowings were an illustration but you knew that anyway.

sarkozy

repsol wrote: »

Simple solution to this argument. Place a tick box on taxation forms/ social welfare applications. Let each individual indicate if they wish to donate or not. Deduct the donations and send it off overseas. Bet most Irish people will not tick the box. Quoting surveys is a waste of time, because people will lie because they don't want some lefty branding them a racist. Let those who are so worried about Africa pay to ease their conscience . Personally, I don't give them too much thought. Famine is natures way of telling you to move somewhere with a more favourable climate and stop having kids you cannot feed. If you don't want to see kids in Africa starving,switch channels when it's on the TV and give your money to Crumlin Children's Hospital.

You're entirely wrong about famine. You need to update your stone-age beliefs. It's especially insulting to say that the millions of Irish people who died in our famine were simply natures 'collateral damage'. The fact of the matter is that our famine happened amidst an island and a United Kingdom stuffed with food. There are verified accounts of food warehouses up and down the Irish coast stuffed with food, but the starving millions weren't allowed to eat it.

Famine happens because people's 'entitlement' to food collapses. Entitlements include the ability to buy food, grow food, access food via aid, etc. In Ireland, Irish Catholics were forced by government policy to live in the worst living conditions in Europe; therefore, they were forced to live on the worst land, which meant they had to survive on one single staple, the potato; when their staple failed, that entitlement to food collapsed; without jobs, they could not buy food even though the country was full of food; due to the racist and exploitative policies of the British, they did nothing to stop the suffering until it was too late - only very late in the day was food aid and (the dreadful) work-for-food programmes put in place. More 'too-little-too-late-ism'.

This explanation of famine - driven by economics and politics - has been shown to be the case in many other parts of the world, for example, the structure of the Irish Great Famine is identical to the Indian Great Famine. This dynamic is in place all over the world. I spent time in one African country where I myself saw these dynamics at play.

Today, we're also dealing with climate change. You have to ask who is most responsible for this. Poor people around the world? Or rich people around the world and our lifestyles? The people who must move, as you say, due to their lands drying our or being flooded, is something we are responsible for.

What you've said is extremely insulting to the 800 million people in the world going hungry - imaging you and every person in Europe were scratching around for food today. It's also extremely insulting to the memories of those who died in our famine, and insulting to those who take that memory seriously and work hard to prevent it happening today.

Finnbar01

'Official Development Assistance',

Typical doublespeak. Come up with fancy sounding words to make it seem more respectable.

which we're talking about, is not charity.

Yep, it's not charity because it's forced.

It's an investment in a more prosperous, peaceful and just world. We are part of the international community, and an elite club of 'developed nations'. As such, official development assistance is our membership fee to the international community -

Membership of international community? When did we sign the form for that?

it's the clever thing to do, and the moral thing to do. As a country highly integrated with the global economy, we can only prosper when the world does, and so this is an investment in a better Ireland. This is not, by your definition, charity.

The clever and moral thing to do is trade with them, not give them hand outs.

As I said, the aid budget is democratically voted on by the Oireachtas every year. In our republican democracy, this means citizens accept this spending. It's not your right to opt out of it, but it is your right to inform your Oireachtas representatives that you do not wish to pay it. So stop talking rubbish. Of course, you're free to privately support whatever cause you like from your personal, private resources (and get tax relief on it, by the way).

The foreign aid budget is more to do with politicians making themselves feel better and coming across as morally virtuous than actually helping anyone. I remember an Irish politician paying a vist to Uganda to look at the achievements of Irish aid. You'd swear he was giving the money out of his own back pocket with his smug smile and pretentious body language.

Incidentally, Uganda will be spending around $1 billion on military spending this year.

Boskowski

repsol wrote: »

...and stop having kids you cannot feed...

And yet throngs of people in Ireland can't even afford their own house, are unable to feed themselves without receipt of welfare payments and yet feel they're 'entitled' to have as many kids as they like.

You know we have to borrow for THAT too.

Finnbar01

old gregg wrote: »

No, you told me where you believe foreign aid money comes from and you used the word 'borrow'. It's logical that someone has the right to seek clarification on a broad statement like that. My borrowings were an illustration but you knew that anyway.

Where does the money for foreign aid come from?

We are borrowing €1 billion per month. Some of that money will make up foreign aid. Where else do you think the money comes from?

7upfree

Media999 wrote: »

Problem is people in this country think they are poor.

Poor f"ckers cant decide what car to take to work.

Poor f"ckers cant decide what food to eat from their packed fridge.

Poor f"ckers with their free educations and debt free degrees.

Poor f"ckers cant decide if they will have a latte of mocha f"ckin frappuccino today.

Poor f"ckers in front of their 500 euro laptops whinging about how they are worse off than people who watch their kids die from starvation.

A generalisation if ever there was one. Here in Ireland there are also "poor f"ckers" who:

Cannot buy food.

Cannot keep a roof over their heads.

Cannot provide their kids with proper healthcare.

A different type of poverty. All while we wheel €600m out to a bunch of warlords. BILLIONS has been hijacked in Africa.

And all the while when we have charities here paying their CEOs in excess 0f €200,000 PA. Lead by example. Cut these leeches pay for starters.

old gregg

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Where does the money for foreign aid come from?

We are borrowing €1 billion per month. Some of that money will make up foreign aid. Where else do you think the money comes from?

Indeed we may be borrowing none, some or all this money. The issue was raised earlier as to how we financed foreign aid and some (including yourself) stated that we borrow it. I logically asked for clarification because it's important and not mentioned in the original newspaper article, for example a link to a Government document or statement confirming this and thus far nothing but conjecture has resulted. I'd imagine we are borrowing but that's just an opinion and worth nothing in the absence of proof which has yet to materialise.