Room to Improve.

Sleepy

Addle wrote: »

I don't get the negativity towards the client at all. Her optimism and positive outlook is considered delusional? Why?

Because it was delusional. The list of things she wanted was way out of kilter with her budget and the size of the property she was looking to renovate on it.

Even without a final figure and with lots of her wishlist taken out, we can deduce she had at least a 33% over-run (her final meeting with the QS detailed costs "heading for" 175k off an initial budget of 130)

The island would have fit-there were enough of them standing around it in the end.

No, it wouldn't, see above in the thread where someone actually did the maths and what they ended up standing around was a farcical work around the client forced on Dermot.

James 007

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Anyway. I’m sure that fixed cost builds do exist for large projects.

They do exist in GCCC government run contracts. Additional info here. Its all about the element of risk, where the risk of unknowns would lie.

https://arrow.dit.ie/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.ie/&httpsredir=1&article=1048&context=beschreoth

For all domestic projects the risk remains with the Client for all the unknown/unforeseen costs. For a GCCC government run contract where the price is a fixed sum, the risk is with the contractor, but the contractor will have done his homework to price the job to allow for the unknown/unforeseen costs, but the tendered price by each contractor could vary greatly, one could be cautious and come in at a higher tendered price than the more risker contractor who would be willing to take a punt or absorbs certain risks if they did arise.

If you ask a contractor to give you a fixed price for an extension taking into account all unknowns, he will tell you he cant do that. If you insist on a fixed price only as part of a clause in the contract then, the contractor will come along and add additional costs to what he foresees as the unknown concerns, but dont expect to tendered price to be the same for both. Its not normal to have a fixed contract on domestic projects, normally its a price with a contingency, but its getting that contingency element right is key. In this case Bannon wanted the contingency for all archtitectural related items, non engineering items (like drainage, or replace 20% of the joists for example, an engineer would allow for these things).

jos28

I'm really not enjoying this series as much as previous ones. I think the programme has gone off track somewhat. It focuses a lot more on the messing around between Dermot and the client. I know it's tv and has to be entertaining but I like a little more 'practical' input. Lots of house owners are staying put and renovating instead of moving so a bit of advice about insulation/windows/budgeting for older properties etc would be beneficial. I think the balance between clients background/personalities and proper building stuff was better in previous series.
The editing has also changed and there is a lot of repetition about choosing finishes, the programme can drag a bit at times and then a mad rush to wind everything up in the last 5 minutes.

Addle

IMO it's fair enough to think that you'll get a lot of what you want for €130k. It's an awful lot of money.
She did make compromises.
She wasn't unreasonable.

Penn

Sleepy wrote: »

No, it wouldn't, see above in the thread where someone actually did the maths and what they ended up standing around was a farcical work around the client forced on Dermot.

Exactly. You can stand around that island when it's pulled out, but if it was a fixed island in that position you'd face a constant struggle opening and taking stuff out of presses. The pull-out island, in a way is a nice compromise, but at the same time if that's what you have to go through just to have an island of some description, it's just not worth it.

Franz Von Peppercorn

James 007 wrote: »

Its not up to the builder to do the prep work. Its up to the PM along with the QS to ensure that the BOQ items should reflect what will be built, afterall the tendered builders will price from this document.

Normally in projects like these you should have an engineer employed to do some opening up works (open the floors, lintels, open up existing cracks where shown, do some trial holes where it is planned to put in foundations, review existing drainage and recommend CCTV if required etc).

Its a question, do you want to employ an engineer or not, PM has to make this decision or at least recommend the requirement of one to the client. Its clear that there was a steel frame structure for the extension along with the foundations, so an engineer sign-off would of have been required for this, but the extent of his brief most likely stopped there.

I see. I think that role should be extended a bit.

Call me Al

Addle wrote: »

IMO it's fair enough to think that you'll get a lot of what you want for €130k. It's an awful lot of money.
She did make compromises.
She wasn't unreasonable.

Well by all accounts she had one builder leave the site.
He may not agree with your contention that she wasn't unreasonable.
From my viewing of the show she seemed to expect money to magically appear.
She's an intelligent woman going by her LinkedIn profile. I would have expected a bit more cop-on and a little less ditziness.
I agree Dermot was a tough on her. I get the impression he didn't like her to be honest.

Sleepy

Call me Al wrote: »

I agree Dermot was a tough on her. I get the impression he didn't like her to be honest.

If she's anything like she came across on television, could you blame him?

HeidiHeidi

Addle wrote: »

IMO it's fair enough to think that you'll get a lot of what you want for €130k. It's an awful lot of money.
She did make compromises.
She wasn't unreasonable.

€130K, depending what you're renovating, may not be an awful lot of money, as this programme amply demonstrated.

A 100+ year old house is highly unlikely to be a straightforward job - while that amount may get you a lot more on a straightforward renovation on a more modern house, I wasn't a bit surprised at all the complications that arose with this one.

James 007

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I see. I think that role should be extended a bit.

Bannon well knows that an engineer is required for certain aspects of a project such as foundation/steel frame sign-off, timber joist or rafter strengthening works etc. however whether or not he brings this to the attention of his Client or not is his decision (as normally most architects are the PMs on domestic projects).

If additional costs are added by introducing an engineer and additional unknowns are covered in the price it could mean:

1. The project could be scuppered and Bannon would not get his 4-7% fees.
2. Additional new costs to the Client could either mean less cost spend on the lovely finishes that Bannon wants to display as his great work of art or the Client is willing to bear the additional costs.

Sleepy

Bannon doesn't get a fee for the houses that appear on the show though? Isn't that the main benefit of being on the show? That you get an architect's services for free?

James 007

Sleepy wrote: »

Bannon doesn't get a fee for the houses that appear on the show though? Isn't that the main benefit of being on the show? That you get an architect's services for free?

That may be the case, but I am talking in the real scheme of things outside the show. I am not too sure what arrangement is there with Coco TV or RTE, maybe he gets his fee via the stations, maybe not, perhaps he gets a reduced fee or indeed none for free advertising his professional role etc on TV.

Does the QS do the work for free too?

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

mloc123 wrote: »

Any source on this?

https://twitter.com/Cgriffin2006/status/919952199022768129

ridiculous that people think you can't link a public tweet of someone who was on a national TV show

Addle

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

€130K, depending what you're renovating, may not be an awful lot of money, as this programme amply demonstrated.

A 100+ year old house is highly unlikely to be a straightforward job - while that amount may get you a lot more on a straightforward renovation on a more modern house, I wasn't a bit surprised at all the complications that arose with this one.

Yes, but she didn't know that even she handed him the list before he came up with a plan.
It's a pity the professionals she employed didn't have as much foresight as you.

Sleepy

James 007 wrote: »

Does the QS do the work for free too?

Based on a previous show where the client decided to dispense with the services of the QS (I can't remember if it was Patricia or Lisa), I'd assume not.

recipio

Please guys, no more unkind references to Christine. She bought a basic house and just wanted her dream makeover - who can blame her.? I did think however that both she and Dermot were a little rigid at times. The kitchen design was poor and should have been at the back. There is something funny about these renovation costs - for 180K people around my neck of the woods expect to get an entire house !

Sleepy

Addle wrote: »

Yes, but she didn't know that even she handed him the list before he came up with a plan.
It's a pity the professionals she employed didn't have as much foresight as you.

Eh, they did? The "delusional" comments were being made as soon as they saw the wishlist and heard the budget. There was no plan at that stage and they expressed concern at the lack of a contingency.

Addle

James 007 wrote: »

Does the QS do the work for free too?

I don't know about the current QS, but there was something about the previous' fee on an early episode, in that it had to be paid.

There has to be some financial benefit for the client?

The builders didn't get any attention in this episode. The foreman is usually a character in each episode.

pilly

Did anyone else feel like the camera shots were terrible? Like at the reveal, I just wanted to see more of the house.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Addle wrote: »

There has to be some financial benefit for the client?

They get Dermots services for free, and benefit from better pricing from providers wanting exposure from the show

Addle

Sleepy wrote: »

Eh, they did? The "delusional" comments were being made as soon as they saw the wishlist and heard the budget. There was no plan at that stage and they expressed concern at the lack of a contingency.

I'd love to know when those links were really recorded. Was the timeline genuine?

pilly

James 007 wrote: »

That may be the case, but I am talking in the real scheme of things outside the show. I am not too sure what arrangement is there with Coco TV or RTE, maybe he gets his fee via the stations, maybe not, perhaps he gets a reduced fee or indeed none for free advertising his professional role etc on TV.

Does the QS do the work for free too?

You can be sure he's getting paid by someone, no way is he spending that amount of time for free, good publicity or not.

jooksavage

recipio wrote: »

Please guys, no more unkind references to Christine. She bought a basic house and just wanted her dream makeover - who can blame her.? I did think however that both she and Dermot were a little rigid at times. The kitchen design was poor and should have been at the back. There is something funny about these renovation costs - for 180K people around my neck of the woods expect to get an entire house !

The whole thing felt a bit half-arsed. I felt sorry for Christine because this house was understandably a huge part of her life and I didn't feel like Dermot was bringing it (I'm not saying she wasn't being very unreasonable at times). I know the shows aren't shot in sequence but it's hard not to compare last night's build to the previous week's. Dermot looked bored half the time last night and the design was total meh. Client definitely deserved better than that.

Addle

Even Dermot's retweets are bad form.

Penn

jooksavage wrote: »

The whole thing felt a bit half-arsed. I felt sorry for Christine because this house was understandably a huge part of her life and I didn't feel like Dermot was bringing it (I'm not saying she wasn't being very unreasonable at times). I know the shows aren't shot in sequence but it's hard not to compare last night's build to the previous week's. Dermot looked bored half the time last night and the design was total meh. Client definitely deserved better than that.

In fairness, there really wasn't a whole lot he could do with such a tight budget. I think they said about 75k of the budget was going on doing up the existing house, never mind the extension. Then professional fees, external works etc, doesn't leave a lot left to do something all that interesting.

Water John

€12K a pop for his design and keener builder and supplier prices v's the hassle of filming and personal exposure.
Not sure it's worth it.

Sleepy

pilly wrote: »

You can be sure he's getting paid by someone, no way is he spending that amount of time for free, good publicity or not.

Well, presumably Coco television pay him for fronting the series?

No doubt whatever footage they'd shot of the foreman had to be edited out given the troubles the build ran into.

I'm not sure what else you think Dermot could have done jooksavage? He had a client with unreasonable expectations for the budget (and property) she had and who wouldn't listen to reality when presented with it. Given the trouble between the client and her builders (it'd be fascinating to know more about those but there's apparently legal action involved) and her delusions, I'd say he couldn't get out of this one fast enough!

Sleepy

Water John wrote: »

€12K a pop for his design and keener builder and supplier prices v's the hassle of filming and personal exposure.
Not sure it's worth it.

I wouldn't do it myself tbh!

CreativeSen

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm not sure what else you think Dermot could have done jooksavage? He had a client with unreasonable expectations for the budget (and property) she had and who wouldn't listen to reality when presented with it. Given the trouble between the client and her builders (it'd be fascinating to know more about those but there's apparently legal action involved) and her delusions, I'd say he couldn't get out of this one fast enough!

Was she delusional, maybe. She had a wishlist and 130k to spend. I dont know how much it costs to knock a wall, lay a polished concrete floor, buy a window....thats why she hired an architect.

I never liked Bannon, I always thought he had an ego and he designed houses for other people based on his likes and dislikes. But last night took the biscuit. That farce over the red brick sample wall,with the bricks she didnt pick, changing the color of the kitchen cabinets, the ill fitting windows.....he clearly had no time for her, totally disrespectful of her and ignored her opinions of her house....

You cannot, as he said, streamline decisions for other people when they are forking out 170k+.

Addle

Sleepy wrote: »

He had a client with unreasonable expectations for the budget (and property) she had and who wouldn't listen to reality when presented with it.

This just isn't true.
She had a list of 25 things that ended up being 5 or 6?
She insisted on underfloor heating as it was budgeted for.
She was not unreasonable!