Room to Improve.

Poor_old_gill

Windorah wrote: »

Most teachers wouldnt. In my my experience of them, they do not understand the art of compromise - just like this lady.

The poor girl is being torn to shreds on social media and now a whole profession are being generalised and stereotyped after a 50 minute home improvement show. Lovely.[/QUOTE]

The generalising of teachers is ridiculous- I'll agree with you.
However most people are judging her on her behavior & attitude- which seems like a reasonable enough thing to do.

I really dislike people who make constant belittling, bitchy, passive aggressive comments - as do most people.
The way she attempted to belittle & insult Dermot and his level of professionalism constantly was borderline bullying.

She shouldn't have hired him or any architect - the shout at the end of "Katie always wins" was fairly pathetic & sad but summed up the theme of the episode and probably these people's lives.

lawred2

Greybottle wrote: »

Yeah, I thought it was a fairly starightforward one too. He should have the old parlour done up in such a way that it can be easily converted o a bedroom and back again afterwards.

Disabled toilet with wetroom downstairs and you're good to go.

Utility room with no windows is a big boo.boo Dermot, but he's done that a fair few times. The washing machine and dryer will cause a lot of condensation. He should swap that with the boot room.

we have no window in our utility - there is not a drop of condensation. Adequate mechanical ventilation and you're good.

Mountainsandh

the_pen_turner wrote: »

im not sure what your point is then.

if you go to a resturant the specalises in one type of cooking and the chef decides that the menu has 3 courses. betroot soup, aubergine mains and apple tart for desert. thats it . thats the menu.
when you see the menu you decide if you will order or leave.
dermot is like this he designs open plan, loads of windows in a boxy flat roof extention , white walls with amodern kitchen.

your saying that the chef as to change the beetroot soup for you. thats not going to happen. if you asked for white bread intead of brown then thats a small change thats posible.
if you dont like the menu go somewhere else.
if you dont like dermots designs get someone else

No, what I was saying is that an architect imo should not really be that confined in their own little niche of open plan boxy glassy metally extension.

At least that's not what my expectations of a good architect would be.

My example was that of hiring a chef, to cook, and giving them a brief. Not calling to their restaurant and making a fuss.


Anyway, the conversation could turn in circles for yonks.
It seems the default in Ireland, judging by the comments here, is to be happy with what the expert delivers whether you like it or not, and if indeed you don't like it and are not happy with it, you should
a) delicately word it to the expert that if he doesn't mind you would have preferred something else, and possibly gently remind him and respectfully explain that you have different needs than he does. In other words, tiptoe.
b) keep shtum and be happy.

Same as the well known attitude in restaurants/hospitality in general.
It's rude to speak your mind or be unhappy with the service.



Except that it's a house you're going to live in we're talking about, and a lot of money involved.
But hey, he's the expert.
Happy happy happy.



Sweetmaggie

You’re determined to slate Dermot aren’t you ? In this episode he DID give the client what she asked for in his plans !! And she turned around and gave him 0 our of 10 - like the teacher she is . She seemed determined to go against his ideas and advice at every single turn -just to be right .

Not really.
I'm simply making the point that if she rated his drawings 1/10 from the get go, it is obviously that he had not taken on board her requests.

Incidentally, I felt he was putting words in her mouth when he was saying the kitchen should be the heart of the home.


It all boils down to what you can reasonably expect of an architect, and whether this particular couple should have applied/been taken on for the show.

It was obviously a deliberate bad fit from the producers' point of view, for the sake of adding a bit of spice to the program.

I'm on her side since personally, I would expect an architect to be sympathetic to the needs of clients, and flexible and imaginative enough to apply his skills and deliver on something that suits.
If compromise and negotiations are required, the paying client should really be the one to rate satisfaction.
This is business and there is no obligation on a customer to make choices (that will impact their own lives) based on what the professional would personally like. Why she should have to agree to Dermot's plans to spare his feelings, or make him happy with her house, is beyond me.

There is a reasonable requirement for the professional to deliver on what the client wants. It was not a question of whether things were feasible here, it was simply what Dermot liked, and what she liked.

lawred2

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

A China cabinet.

Ffs.

the only thing a china cabinet should be used for is target practice

lawred2

Quazzie wrote: »

I'm trying to not be offensive, but why did these pair of sacks hire Dermot. He has a well established style, and they were 100% aware of it, so why did they sign up for this when what they want goes against everything he offers

you lasted a whole 4 words

Anne1982h

Re last nights episode I do think she came across very rude and disrespectful of another human being (Dermot). I do think this is in part maybe due to her profession as being a teacher you need to lay down the law to your class and not give any space for disagreement. Those of us working with adults however realize it takes more tact and being careful with your words to get your view across without being disrespectful to another person. This is a skill like anything else and not one she will have had to learn in her cocoon of teaching - home. Hopefully she will be more mindful of how she comes across and maybe modify her behaviors in future. Re twitter and people saying they know her/her father and she’s awful I think it’s a bit ridiculous. No one is universally liked. Depending on who you talk to someone could say I was the nicest person they’ve ever met or the worst.

Re the house design - I see her point about open plan. You definitely need to have a closed off room - if your kids have friends over down the line do they sit in the open sitting room part and parents in the open kitchen part! I wouldn’t like that. You need to have a room where kids can be in watching a movie with their friends in private and parents in kitchen doing their own thing. They have the parkour for that but if they want to turn it into a downstairs bedroom and they do end up needing it they’ve only one living space for the entire rest of the family!

Tiles throughout though I hate! So cold in a living room.

yabadabado

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Your perception of rude is not the same as mine then.
She did exactly what I often think whenever I do get to watch the show.

I think people started taking offense on behalf of Dermot when she gave him 1 out of 10 for the drawings.

After that she was just plainly speaking her mind, not sugarcoating things, and clearly letting him know that some of his gimmicks were absolutely not a priority for her, that they were the ones who were going to be living in the house, and that their needs and wants were more important than Dermot's enthusiasm for particular architectural features.

She never once insulted him, she just spoke her mind. That "S" word comes to mind when I see people getting all riled up about it.

Big difference speaking your mind and being passive aggressive and rude. I have no problem with someone speaking their mind but you can do it without being rude.

I definitely wasn't taking offence on Demots behalf, I couldn't careless that she didn't like his plans but you can go about things the right way.

The "S" word, has nothing to do with it, a bit of manners is the least you can show towards someone you are working with.

LirW

One thing I thought was absolutely mad of the couple was insisting on the 4 bedrooms upstairs. Seeing them they were absolutely tiny!
I liked Dermot's original plan with only 3 bedrooms but them being spacious enough to actually move in it.
It pains me to defend Dermot but he was right about a few things and the layout he designed was one of them, he knew otherwise it would end up cramped and not spacious at all.
Appreciated this effort.

Radio5

mycro2013 wrote: »

Usually the bedroom downstairs is used to care for elderly relative or parent who doesn't wish to be placed in a nursing home in their later years

I can't see either of those 2 as the 'caring' type to be honest unless there is a major change of attitude in the next few years/decades. I'd guess that lady hasn't had too much experience of people saying 'no'to her over the years but there are people like that everywhere not just in certain professions. Her mother's comment about the wedding was quite telling.

Mountainsandh

yabadabado wrote: »

Big difference speaking your mind and being passive aggressive and rude. I have no problem with someone speaking their mind but you can do it without being rude.

I definitely wasn't taking offence on Demots behalf, I couldn't careless that she didn't like his plans but you can go about things the right way.

The "S" word, has nothing to do with it, a bit of manners is the least you can show towards someone you are working with.

She was not "working with" Dermot really, he was supposed to work for her.

I don't get the passive aggressive thing, and rudeness. From what I recall, Dermot tried to stir her in his direction every time she disagreed with something, and she just refused to be stirred.
Not from memory, but that's how I felt dialogues were going :

Ie. Dermot : an open plan room will be great, you will love it.
Woman : no I won't. I don't like open plan.
Dermot : but you will, you will love it, all my clients love it.
Woman : no I won't
Dermot : I've delivered hundreds of open plans, everyone always love them.
Woman : but I won't love it, I don't like open plan.

Is this passive agressive and rude ?
To me, it's just someone who knows what they like and dislike, and are just making it known.
Should she have gone on flowery explanations why she didn't like it ?

I think she did indulge in a few explanations here and there actually, but really is that a requirement of the client, to explain and justify why they don't like something ?

Poor_old_gill

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

It's rare that you come across a lad who has been that beaten down- even when asked to rate Dermot at the end he nearly sh*t himself incase he gave the wrong answer and so just told her to answer instead

I know what you're saying , but I'd guess this is his way, he's been like this long before he met herself, and I wouldn't comment on that. He was nice and he was harmless. Not sure if being with an extremely bossy partner will help though.

honeybear

Haven’t seen episode yet. Will do tonight. Teachers have come across terribly on some of the RTI houses...and I’m a teacher.

Mountainsandh

Mountainsandh wrote: »

No, what I was saying is that an architect imo should not really be that confined in their own little niche of open plan boxy glassy metally extension.

At least that's not what my expectations of a good architect would be.

My example was that of hiring a chef, to cook, and giving them a brief. Not calling to their restaurant and making a fuss.


Anyway, the conversation could turn in circles for yonks.
It seems the default in Ireland, judging by the comments here, is to be happy with what the expert delivers whether you like it or not, and if indeed you don't like it and are not happy with it, you should
a) delicately word it to the expert that if he doesn't mind you would have preferred something else, and possibly gently remind him and respectfully explain that you have different needs than he does. In other words, tiptoe.
b) keep shtum and be happy.

Same as the well known attitude in restaurants/hospitality in general.
It's rude to speak your mind or be unhappy with the service.



Except that it's a house you're going to live in we're talking about, and a lot of money involved.
But hey, he's the expert.
Happy happy happy.



Sweetmaggie


Not really.
I'm simply making the point that if she rated his drawings 1/10 from the get go, it is obviously that he had not taken on board her requests.

Incidentally, I felt he was putting words in her mouth when he was saying the kitchen should be the heart of the home.


It all boils down to what you can reasonably expect of an architect, and whether this particular couple should have applied/been taken on for the show.

It was obviously a deliberate bad fit from the producers' point of view, for the sake of adding a bit of spice to the program.

I'm on her side since personally, I would expect an architect to be sympathetic to the needs of clients, and flexible and imaginative enough to apply his skills and deliver on something that suits.
If compromise and negotiations are required, the paying client should really be the one to rate satisfaction.
This is business and there is no obligation on a customer to make choices (that will impact their own lives) based on what the professional would personally like. Why she should have to agree to Dermot's plans to spare his feelings, or make him happy with her house, is beyond me.

There is a reasonable requirement for the professional to deliver on what the client wants. It was not a question of whether things were feasible here, it was simply what Dermot liked, and what she liked.

none of that excuses her rudeness. If I came across someone like that in my own job that I was trying to help professionally I would walk away. If people come to you for advice the least they can do is be open to it. They don't have to agree or like it, but they should be "open" to it and work on a compromise after that. She wanted to prove a point - that she was right and that she knew best. Getting an architect was a waste of time.

iamwhoiam

honeybear wrote: »

Haven’t seen episode yet. Will do tonight. Teachers have come across terribly on some of the RTI houses...and I’m a teacher.

I know a lot of teachers and they are all basically decent nice people . They all tend to be bossy and can be condescending but its aquired over years !

evolving_doors

honeybear wrote: »

Haven’t seen episode yet. Will do tonight. Teachers have come across terribly on some of the RTI houses...and I’m a teacher.

Ahh now let's get our stereotypes correct.

honeybear wrote: »

Haven’t seen episode yet. Will do tonight. -Primary School- Teachers have come across terribly on some of the RTI houses...and I’m a teacher.

:pac:

juneg

Going against the general trend here but I think Dermot is a right diva himself and wouldn't let anything go with her either. Kept harking back to how many points did I get?, Sneering at her love for all things vintage and girly. Producing the window sample with all the writing on it was petty. She only asked for a separate room for goodness sake.

If she was a male client everyone would be saying how assertive she was. Because she's a woman she's more likely to be labelled bossy and rude and overbearing. And of course being rural is the kiss of death.
Incidentally, why do we have a programme in RTI which is essentially a one trick pony? Open plan big glass box? Yes it's lovely don't get me wrong it's always lovely but surely there are other styles of home design out there? That's why I like the programme home of the year because you see very different very quirky homes on it which are prased and valued for being unique and different. I'd be afraid to go on RTI to have the nation sneering at me.

jooksavage

Lot of hate for the clients. I don't know if its entirely justified but they'd definitely wreck my head if they were my clients and I think they've made some questionable choices. Banon is well known for his fondness for open plan - he's got a style (in my humble opinion he's a bit of a one-trick pony aetehtics-wise) so I dont really know why the clients expected something entirely different from him.

yabadabado

Mountainsandh wrote: »

She was not "working with" Dermot really, he was supposed to work for her.

They were working towards a common goal the least you can show someone is a little respect.He is working for her but that doesn't mean she has to talk down to him or roll her eyes like a spoilt child anytime he says something she doesn't like.

You can be assertive without being rude.I have absolutely no time for Bannon but I don't think anyone should have to deal with that ****.

jobless

juneg wrote: »

Going against the general trend here but I think Dermot is a right diva himself and wouldn't let anything go with her either. Kept harking back to how many points did I get?, Sneering at her love for all things vintage and girly. Producing the window sample with all the writing on it was petty. She only asked for a separate room for goodness sake.

If she was a male client everyone would be saying how assertive she was. Because she's a woman she's more likely to be labelled bossy and rude and overbearing. And of course being rural is the kiss of death.
Incidentally, why do we have a programme in RTI which is essentially a one trick pony? Open plan big glass box? Yes it's lovely don't get me wrong it's always lovely but surely there are other styles of home design out there? That's why I like the programme home of the year because you see very different very quirky homes on it which are prased and valued for being unique and different. I'd be afraid to go on RTI to have the nation sneering at me.

nothing to do with her being a woman.... she was rude and obnoxious at times and people would say the same if it were a man

Windorah

I did feel uncomfortable watching some of the interactions between herself and Dermot. 100% she could have conducted herself better BUT this is a tv show. It has been edited and possibly manipulated to make certain people look a certain way. I have no idea how I would come across on a tv show. I definitely don't want to find out either!!!

At the end of the day it's her house and her money. Dermot was a strange choice of architect given her style but hey!

yabadabado

juneg wrote: »

Going against the general trend here but I think Dermot is a right diva himself and wouldn't let anything go with her either. Kept harking back to how many points did I get?, Sneering at her love for all things vintage and girly. Producing the window sample with all the writing on it was petty. She only asked for a separate room for goodness sake.

If she was a male client everyone would be saying how assertive she was. Because she's a woman she's more likely to be labelled bossy and rude and overbearing. And of course being rural is the kiss of death.
Incidentally, why do we have a programme in RTI which is essentially a one trick pony? Open plan big glass box? Yes it's lovely don't get me wrong it's always lovely but surely there are other styles of home design out there? That's why I like the programme home of the year because you see very different very quirky homes on it which are prased and valued for being unique and different. I'd be afraid to go on RTI to have the nation sneering at me.

Give over it has nothing to do with her being female. That's just a cop out.

The rural thing is also without merit.

juneg

juneg wrote: »

Going against the general trend here but I think Dermot is a right diva himself and wouldn't let anything go with her either. Kept harking back to how many points did I get?, Sneering at her love for all things vintage and girly. Producing the window sample with all the writing on it was petty. She only asked for a separate room for goodness sake.

If she was a male client everyone would be saying how assertive she was. Because she's a woman she's more likely to be labelled bossy and rude and overbearing. And of course being rural is the kiss of death.
Incidentally, why do we have a programme in RTI which is essentially a one trick pony? Open plan big glass box? Yes it's lovely don't get me wrong it's always lovely but surely there are other styles of home design out there? That's why I like the programme home of the year because you see very different very quirky homes on it which are prased and valued for being unique and different. I'd be afraid to go on RTI to have the nation sneering at me.

WRONG. Bad manners is bad manners whether you're a man or a woman. End of.

RTI is a different model to Home of the Year. Home of the Year is basically just a programme to admire the finished result and its mostly aesthetic.
Huge budgets are involved but neither these or the architects are part of the programme model.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

She seemed determined to go against his ideas and advice at every single turn -just to be right .

I think she actually admitted straight out, twice, that she wouldn't like something because Dermot does.

It's clear that collaborative work is something she is just no good at. It's not just that "she has assertiveness and strong ideas", but she cannot comprehend a scenario where she is not calling all the shots. So even if Dermot comes up with a good idea, she has to shoot it down to give the illusion that she's in charge. If she agrees with him, then in her eyes she has relinquished some control.
She literally should have drawn what she wants on a piece of paper, given it to a builder and told them to build it. Because that's actually what she wanted.

I wouldn't say it's a teacher thing. You get lots of people like this. They often end up in middle-management positions stumbling their way through mediocrity, with staff who absolutely hate their guts, because no work gets done unless it was her idea.

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

What I was wondering, with all that space, dressing room and so on, does she have a desk somewhere? Does she do her corrections, lesson prep at the kichen table?
Hubby has a desk in the boot/mud room, but what about her?
Seems strange that she didn't seem to think of that.

I got the impression from the husband's one and only monologue that she had given up the teaching to pursue housewifery as a full-time career just like her mother before her.

Disappointed Dermot didn't investigate the downstairs bedroom thing in more depth. Understandable if they have a sick relative that will likely move in with them inside 2 years. But two people in their 20s worrying about the day someone might not be able to make it up the stairs? Wtf. The husband gave the impression that he genuinely wanted it in case he injured himself on the farm.

Maybe it's one of those things his father or uncle had been drilling into him for years, "Always have somewhere to sleep downshtairs, so even if you've two broken legs you can drag yourself out to help with the calving".

Altogether a bizarre pair. Your man would have lived in the barn with a telly and been happy. The house wasn't just old, it was a complete tiphead and he was like, "Ah sure, it's grand".

Penn

juneg wrote: »

Going against the general trend here but I think Dermot is a right diva himself and wouldn't let anything go with her either. Kept harking back to how many points did I get?, Sneering at her love for all things vintage and girly. Producing the window sample with all the writing on it was petty. She only asked for a separate room for goodness sake.

If she was a male client everyone would be saying how assertive she was. Because she's a woman she's more likely to be labelled bossy and rude and overbearing. And of course being rural is the kiss of death.
Incidentally, why do we have a programme in RTI which is essentially a one trick pony? Open plan big glass box? Yes it's lovely don't get me wrong it's always lovely but surely there are other styles of home design out there? That's why I like the programme home of the year because you see very different very quirky homes on it which are prased and valued for being unique and different. I'd be afraid to go on RTI to have the nation sneering at me.

jooksavage wrote: »

Lot of hate for the clients. I don't know if its entirely justified but they'd definitely wreck my head if they were my clients and I think they've made some questionable choices. Banon is well known for his fondness for open plan - he's got a style (in my humble opinion he's a bit of a one-trick pony aetehtics-wise) so I dont really know why the clients expected something entirely different from him.

I think this is the main problem with RTI now and going forward. Dermot's running out of ideas and so many of his designs start becoming so similar and recycled. Even his initial design externally that he showed them was a flat roof box with a smaller flat roof box on top of it.

Additionally, the clients are now so used to Dermot and know what he's like that they don't give him his flexibility he used to enjoy. They know the tricks he uses to try and convince them to go along with his ideas and shut him down almost instantly now. He hasn't really seemed happy with a few of the projects this year because of how the clients have overruled him on so much.

I'm starting to wonder if they'd be better off with a new architect for the show altogether.

Poor_old_gill

seamus wrote: »

I think she actually admitted straight out, twice, that she wouldn't like something because Dermot does.

It's clear that collaborative work is something she is just no good at. It's not just that "she has assertiveness and strong ideas", but she cannot comprehend a scenario where she is not calling all the shots. So even if Dermot comes up with a good idea, she has to shoot it down to give the illusion that she's in charge. If she agrees with him, then in her eyes she has relinquished some control.
She literally should have drawn what she wants on a piece of paper, given it to a builder and told them to build it. Because that's actually what she wanted.

I wouldn't say it's a teacher thing. You get lots of people like this. They often end up in middle-management positions stumbling their way through mediocrity, with staff who absolutely hate their guts, because no work gets done unless it was her idea.
I got the impression from the husband's one and only monologue that she had given up the teaching to pursue housewifery as a full-time career just like her mother before her.

Disappointed Dermot didn't investigate the downstairs bedroom thing in more depth. Understandable if they have a sick relative that will likely move in with them inside 2 years. But two people in their 20s worrying about the day someone might not be able to make it up the stairs? Wtf. The husband gave the impression that he genuinely wanted it in case he injured himself on the farm.

Maybe it's one of those things his father or uncle had been drilling into him for years, "Always have somewhere to sleep downshtairs, so even if you've two broken legs you can drag yourself out to help with the calving".

Altogether a bizarre pair. Your man would have lived in the barn with a telly and been happy. The house wasn't just old, it was a complete tiphead and he was like, "Ah sure, it's grand".

The husband didn't genuinely want anything- he did (and wanted) what he was told

A2LUE42

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

What I was wondering, with all that space, dressing room and so on, does she have a desk somewhere? Does she do her corrections, lesson prep at the kichen table?
Hubby has a desk in the boot/mud room, but what about her?
Seems strange that she didn't seem to think of that.

I know a lot of teacher and they generally they just correct at the kitchen table or a table in the house if they are doing corrections at home.

I assumed that the 'reading room' parlor was going to meet this need in the coming years. Then when that room was being occupied, the other closed off space would be used for this function.

evolving_doors

Why does Dermot always do renovations or bitty extensions.

If he's so passionate about showing off his style, why isn't there a RTI client with a plot asking him to build from scratch?

I know builders around the tipp. area who would have easily levelled that house and built a better and bigger house for 200k. 3 tiny bedrooms was a joke. The lad had acres of space, Dermot treated it like a terraced house in Dublin with feck all options

lawred2

what is a parlour room anyway?

evolving_doors

evolving_doors wrote: »

Why does Dermot always do renovations or bitty extensions.

If he's so passionate about showing off his style, why isn't there a RTI client with a plot asking him to build from scratch?

I know builders around the tipp. area who would have easily levelled that house and built a better and bigger house for 200k. 3 tiny bedrooms was a joke. The lad had acres of space, Dermot treated it like a terraced house in Dublin with feck all options

.................because its called "Room to Improve"!
It was originally about just doing up a few rooms in the recession, then became more about extensions as people had slightly bigger budgets.
Its not call" knock my house down and build a new one".

You can't blame Dermot for this. This is the remit of the show. Speak to RTE and the producers.

splinter65

[Deleted User] wrote: »

.................because its called "Room to Improve"!
It was originally about just doing up a few rooms in the recession, then became more about extensions as people had slightly bigger budgets.
Its not call" knock my house down and build a new one".

You can't blame Dermot for this. This is the remit of the show. Speak to RTE and the producers.

For sentimental reasons the husband didn’t want the place flattened.