Room to Improve.

sydthebeat

Penn wrote: »

That's absolutely fair and I'd agree. But I also think there's only so far architect's should or can push out the extents of the clients' brief if the client is looking for particular things (when design of same is still in the architect's charge). The architect should definitely point out any flaws or what they would consider to be mistakes, but ultimately the architect has a responsibility to the clients to provide as best a design as they can while adhering to the specific requests of the client even if they choose to proceed against his suggestions/expertise.
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i absolutely agree. Its always a to and fro process.... and you find decisions made at the beginning of the process hugely impact the final product. Its the architects job to provide the client with the best end product to suit their needs. Its my assertion however, that going into the project a lot of clients dont actually know, or realise what their needs are, and it isnt until they are challenged on their brief do they realise this. It goes back to the mantra that "people want what they know, they cant want what they dont know"... its the architects job to offer these unknowns to the client... and, if after that offering, the client is still adamant to go with their original request, fine.... but if it appears that the client never changes from the original brief even after all the alternatives / mistakes are pointed out... then theres a problem.

Penn wrote: »

Hence why I think that "...if you have a singular 'non for changing' idea of the design you want then you don't hire an architect.... Because an architect is a "design" professional" isn't a fair comment to make. Sometimes you need to hire an architect or other design professional to be able to a) point out what they perceive to be flaws in their brief, b) show them what they can actually achieve with their budget/brief, and c) try to find the compromises between design, brief and budget. The clients don't always know that or even how singular their own ideas are until it comes to light as part of the design process.

youve really just agreed with my point, even though youve said it isnt a fair comment.

Your a), b) and c) and final statement is examples of the clients changing... whereas i was referring to client who are not for changing, and them being the ones who should not hire designers.

I think we're coming from the same place on this.

Penn

sydthebeat wrote: »

youve really just agreed with my point, even though youve said it isnt a fair comment.

Your a), b) and c) and final statement is examples of the clients changing... whereas i was referring to client who are not for changing, and them being the ones who should not hire designers.

I think we're coming from the same place on this.

Agreed. My basic point is that the clients don't always know they're not for changing until they've already hired an architect and are partway through the design process, when the realise how deep-set their own ideas already are and how it conflicts with the architect's advice. You can't always know that until you're already in the process, because you haven't gotten the advice from the architect yet and don't know it's against modern design principles and the style of most architects.

sydthebeat

Penn wrote: »

Agreed. My basic point is that the clients don't always know they're not for changing until they've already hired an architect and are partway through the design process, when the realise how deep-set their own ideas already are and how it conflicts with the architect's advice. You can't always know that until you're already in the process, because you haven't gotten the advice from the architect yet and don't know it's against modern design principles and the style of most architects.

fair point.

as a designer though i find i know whos not for changing pretty quickly in an initial consultation. There are people out there who simply only want a "shoulders down" service.

PARlance

Watched it last night, my biggest gripe was them making a point of how amazingly well designed upstairs was, how they fitted in 4 bedrooms etc and then didn't bother even showing a floor plan or a quick zoom through... Maybe I'm just daft and shouldn't expect any architectural insight at this stage.

My wife and her sister had watched it on Sunday, I only got around to it yesterday. They had said given a few hints that "your woman was a bit of a wan".
Maybe it's just my natural tendency to disagree with my wife (I ain't no Padraig ) but I was watching it thinking "she's only hamming it up for the camera. Yes, she's opinionated, yes she's on the bossy spectrum but fundamentally she's grand, a tiny bit of craic at times even... Now, I wouldn't call around for a cup of tea, no matter what china was on offer but I know that type. Being bossy or "hard to get" (going back to my younger days) was what they're all about. I "got" many in my day and in fairness, an awful lot of them went on to become teachers

The two of them were a match made in heaven. He was looking for a Mammy and she couldn't be happier playing that role. Fair play to them, I don't think Padraig will have too many worries in his life, a simple and happy life. She'll love her role and fulfill her dream of being a model housewife. She got her 15 minutes like her own mother so that box is ticked too.

I've seen first hand how these types of shows get produced, it's all orchestrated. People are made to repeat and exaggerate comments just for dramatic effect. She didn't come across well at times, to say the least, but I would agree with mountainsandth's post.

After watching it, I jokingly said to my wife "She's not that bad, she reminds me of a cross between yourself and your sister (teacher)"....

Our spare room could probably do with some improving.

Could they not have shown us a plan of upstairs!!!

PARlance

I actually thought she was doing a fair bit of flirting with Dermot, in her own unique way.

Reati

I want to know what happened that lovely skylight box he was putting into the kitchen. I'm sure it was cut for budget but was a key thing i liked.

PARlance

Reati wrote: »

I want to know what happened that lovely skylight box he was putting into the kitchen. I'm sure it was cut for budget but was a key thing i liked.

The kitchen (with skylight) was originally planned to be in the previously extended section to the side of the house. That got Nil Points so it ended up being moved to the back of the house, the living area replaced it in the old extension.

If she didn't want her living area open plan, I doubt she wanted a bloody skylight in it Sure you could be watching TV with a Skylight overhead.

Reati

PARlance wrote: »

The kitchen (with skylight) was originally planned to be in the previously extended section to the side of the house. That got Nil Points so it ended up being moved to the back of the house, the living area replaced it in the old extension.

If she didn't want her living area open plan, I doubt she wanted a bloody skylight in it Sure you could be watching TV with a Skylight overhead.

Ah I missed that. They never showed a 3D overview again. I'd love that skylight in my kitchen. I'm thinking of putting it in a few years from now when the money is saved up.

spookwoman

The part about the sitting room tiles she sounded bitchy and was short with him. She tells him to stop waffling and choose a tile, he chooses one and she says well guess what i like that one on the end. Ref the staircase even the lady from the builders said it didn't fit the place. She did say at one point as well If Dermot likes it I definitely don't like, I don't know about anyone else with that mentality why the hell did she get him to continue. I checked his site and it seems to be all all open plan stuff so again why go to him.

She may be feeling low about what was said about her online but guess what no one forced her to go on the show and no one forced her to behave that way. The only person to blame is herself.

GT_TDI_150

Re watched it today.

Out of the whole episode what bothered me most was the rolling of the eyes when Dermot started to talk about a different style kitchen to the one she has in her mind...

How childish. It was before he had even articulated the style of kitchen hed recommend..

She came across as needing to be the one that broke Dermot. It seemed that was her goal from day one

BabysCoffee

When I was watching I thought the "back to the drawing board Dermot" was a very orchestrated statement. She seemed to glance over at the producer after saying it with an expression like "is that the way you want me to say it"

jimbobaloobob

For her sake i hope shes busy watching tv in her snug room or making tea in china cups rather than reading this.
Is it the most talked about episode ever?

Colser

BabysCoffee wrote: »

When I was watching I thought the "back to the drawing board Dermot" was a very orchestrated statement. She seemed to glance over at the producer after saying it with an expression like "is that the way you want me to say it"

I felt the 0 out of 10 sounded orchestrated as well.She definitely came across as domineering but she could have been setup for some of it,I really liked her mother and really disagreed with the backlash she received.

I wouldn't like to be her right now tbh and I genuinely feel sorry for her if she's reading everything online,not saying that I liked her but I don't think anyone deserves to go through this.

Autosport

A friend of mine is a neighbor of them and she says that she’s not a very friendly person but padraic is very quiet and is extremely shy and that episode was the most she has ever heard him talk.

nuac

Why do people enter these programmes? I presume they still have to pay their builder. Even if there is a reduction on architect's fees, it may not be worth the hassle and exposure.

freshpopcorn

nuac wrote: »

Why do people enter these programmes? I presume they still have to pay their builder. Even if there is a reduction on architect's fees, it may not be worth the hassle and exposure.

Some might say it's to make sure the builders do a good job and on time, you might get lucky by getting furniture or some discounts but I think some people want to be on TV!

spookwoman

Autosport wrote: »

A friend of mine is a neighbor of them and she says that she’s not a very friendly person but padraic is very quiet and is extremely shy and that episode was the most she has ever heard him talk.

He did seem very unworldly and tied to the apron strings. He seemed happy to do his farming and would be happy to live anywhere that is quiet. There was nothing of his or his personality in that renovation it was all her.
I pity him in the years to come if she is like that at this age she will only get worse as the years pass.

Drifter50

Feel sorry for Katie with all the hate that she received. She had her own ideas and stood up to Dermot which many people cave in ad go with his ideas. Just because he thinks it will look well does`nt mean everyone has to like it

Drifter50

Drifter50 wrote: »

Feel sorry for Katie with all the hate that she received. She had her own ideas and stood up to Dermot which many people cave in ad go with his ideas. Just because he thinks it will look well does`nt mean everyone has to like it

I feel sorry for Dermot in this case .

There’s never an excuse for rudeness .

And to call people “haters “ for simply having an opinion on what constitutes good manners and good breeding is just deflecting from what happened.
These days if anyone has an opinion different to someone else’s and even if they can back it up coherently they are a “hater” and the perpetrator of what happened is an”victim” .

I grew up in a time where manners were important, how you spoke to someone was important even if you didn,t agree with them . It’s called having respect for other human beings.

Dermot is a professional in his field , he’s got qualifications in what he does . That’s why she hired him . How would she feel if he went in to her classroom and criticized her for her methods of teaching ? If he gave her 0-10 without even listening to her entire class, if he point blank disagreed with her plan for a class before it even started ?

Same thing. Life will teach that girl that you don’t always get your own way and you’re not always right . I am not a hater , I have an opinion .
(I have 2 daughters around her age, both professionals, I’ve seen them both at work , neither of them would dream of speaking to someone the way she did).

Mountainsandh

Autosport wrote: »

A friend of mine is a neighbor of them and she says that she’s not a very friendly person but padraic is very quiet and is extremely shy and that episode was the most she has ever heard him talk.

A man of a few words alright. I know a few younger farmers like that, it's not really that they're shy, they just don't see the need for small talk or extra talk. Get them going on sheep or cows though and it's a different story. I was sat in a minibus driving through South Kerry one time with two of those sitting in front of me, you should have heard the chatter between the 2 of them. All about sheep and cows, that's their passion.

spookwoman wrote: »

He did seem very unworldly and tied to the apron strings. He seemed happy to do his farming and would be happy to live anywhere that is quiet. There was nothing of his or his personality in that renovation it was all her.
I pity him in the years to come if she is like that at this age she will only get worse as the years pass.

That's not really true though. He's quiet about it, and productions want to make you feel like he doesn't, but he has plenty of input throughout the program.

He's strongly set in favour of that room downstairs, says that if in 6 months time they needed a bedroom downstairs and they went along with Dermot's plan, they could find themselves disappointed.
He's not keen on a very large window downstairs facing the yard, the light could bother him for the tv, and he doesn't see the point.
He hates the orange for the kitchen, he had it in his mind it was going to be white, and seemed happy enough about that. Katie agrees and so they don't go for orange.
In the kitchen he wants presses that have a feature to tell him what side of the press opens, like handles, because he says otherwise he'd forever be forgetting what side the press opens. Dermot is a bit bítchy there saying "what on earth would you have to open a press for in this kitchen ?", and Padraig replies even though he doesn't cook he'd still need to get himself a bowl of cereals at times.
I can't remember very well but I think the final presses they got on the island have handles alright.

He seems keen on the number of rooms upstairs, I'd say he was as set on an extra one as she was, and is fairly impressed that they managed it while keeping a room for themselves that was actually a slight bit bigger than the one they used to have.

And of course it's his uncle's house and that's why they're keen on renovating sympathetically rather than drastically changing it, she's very sympathetic to that too and says it's Pete's (or whatever the uncle name was) house too, in a matter of fact manner, not bitter, near the start of the program.

I think a lot of these couples where you've a really quiet one and a more extroverted outspoken one often work very well actually. From the outside it can seem very polarized, but I'd say in privacy the quiet guys have their say too, they just leave all the "publicizing" to the other half.

Like another poster said, he might like to be mammied and she likes delivering on it, a great match

kerry cow

It was immature behaviour on her part .
Dermot showed maturity in dealing with it .
Unfortunately she will be remembered for ever more for her performance .
But don't rule out the late late to save her, with a blooming explanation.
Put your head up and be prepared for it to come off .

irishmoss

Colser wrote: »

I felt the 0 out of 10 sounded orchestrated as well.She definitely came across as domineering but she could have been setup for some of it,I really liked her mother and really disagreed with the backlash she received.

I wouldn't like to be her right now tbh and I genuinely feel sorry for her if she's reading everything online,not saying that I liked her but I don't think anyone deserves to go through this.

If you put yourself forward to go on these type of shows you have to face the consequences. The producers will try and make the show more engaging. It is the same with The X Factor, those getting through have a "story" to tell along with a good voice.
Dermot knows how to play for the camera and draws as much as he can from the client and eggs them on sometimes, all for good viewing.

irishmoss

nuac wrote: »

Why do people enter these programmes? I presume they still have to pay their builder. Even if there is a reduction on architect's fees, it may not be worth the hassle and exposure.

Does anyone know what you actually get by doing this program? Does Demot's services come free?

Sleepy

Dermots Services and the chance to be on telly seems to be about it.

Presumably it does you no harm in negotiating with suppliers either ("you can put massive stickers on the windows which'll be visible on RTE for a 15% discount" kind of thing...) though I'd assume it eliminates your options for paying suppliers in cash and letting them worry about the tax compliance

Reati

Sleepy wrote: »

Dermots Services and the chance to be on telly seems to be about it.

Presumably it does you no harm in negotiating with suppliers either ("you can put massive stickers on the windows which'll be visible on RTE for a 15% discount" kind of thing...) though I'd assume it eliminates your options for paying suppliers in cash and letting them worry about the tax compliance

The y put the massive stickers on either way. My windows were riddled with them when they arrived.

recipio

spookwoman wrote: »

He did seem very unworldly and tied to the apron strings. He seemed happy to do his farming and would be happy to live anywhere that is quiet. There was nothing of his or his personality in that renovation it was all her.
I pity him in the years to come if she is like that at this age she will only get worse as the years pass.

In a previous life I used to do a lot of house calls to farmhouses. You wouldn't believe how people still live in rural Ireland. Usually a concrete floor, a range belting out heat, one fluorescent light in the ceiling and a telly half way up the wall.Katie will bring a touch of civilisation to the home and her choices are not as conservative as they might have been. I'd lose the purple chaise lounge though.:D

Sleepy

Reati wrote: »

The y put the massive stickers on either way. My windows were riddled with them when they arrived.

Yeah, but you could agree not to remove them before filming in exchange for a discount

freshpopcorn

https://m.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/i-dont-have-any-notions-room-to-improves-katie-on-clashes-with-dermot-bannon-36753363.html

Nonoperational

Every week people take it so personally. It's a bit of light entertainment for an hour a week and in the end it looked like they got on fine. It's obviously edited a bit for some dramatic effect, same as it is every week.

Mountainsandh

True.
I don't even normally watch it as we've no tv, but when I saw how people on here were saying she was a rude biatch it really annoyed me.
I'd be the one normally to say when you go on reality programs you're exposing yourself to criticism, but that's not blind dates or something like that, it's really a one off, seems harsh to lambast someone on the basis of a one off edited show.