Room to Improve.

ted1

MidMan25 wrote: »

This is such a baseless accusation

Munster Joinery & Rationale tend to be pretty expensive, you don’t see to many windows or large sliding doors coming from Eastern Europe. Many of my friends and families have got there ms from outside Ireland for much cheaper

Dearg81

ted1 wrote: »

25 minutes easily.

Hmmm I'm not sure about that Ted! Adrian looked like he was enjoying those free Google meals a bit too much!

freshpopcorn

Dermot's own Room to Improve will air in January and will consist of two episodes!

AndrewJRenko

Dearg81 wrote: »

Hmmm I'm not sure about that Ted! Adrian looked like he was enjoying those free Google meals a bit too much!

eBikes are letting people do longer journeys or more hilly journeys that would otherwise be impractical, with less exercise involved. Or he could have a fancy-ass scooter or something. They've very little parking, so it is unlikely that he is driving in.

HeidiHeidi

Only catching up with this week's show now.


That's a whole pile of money for a basically uninhabitable 2-bed house..... but that's SoCoDu for ya!


One of the things she said she loved about the house were the granite sills.....first thing getting levered out in the demolition into a skip (presumably) - those sills.


I'd love to see them keep those kitchen tiles, they have real character.



Lovely proportions to the original house, before it got tinkered around with to make it unrecognisable - I'd love to know the story of it over the years!

jos28

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Dermot's own Room to Improve will air in January and will consist of two episodes!

Looking forward to it, bet he gets a plywood kitchen

HeidiHeidi

Why was yer man so adamant that the budget was initally X, and NOTHING MORE, DERMOT - and less than halfway through the programme is spending money like it's going out of fashion and is (by my rough count) about 100 grand over budget and counting.


He's for the birds!

HeidiHeidi

Jaysus, yer man is just a big man-child. I'd say you could sell him absolutely anything if you phrased it right.


That office of his would give me a migraine by lunchtime.


Absolutely love the kitchen, fair play to her sticking to her no-plywood guns - although I absolutely loved it in that Sandymount house with the green walls - they were utterly class!


When they were picking the window colours I thought the middle one was a bit samey with the walls (which they were clearly always going to keep) - and so it proved. The combination makes for a very dull frontage - although the porchway is gorgeous, and the windows themselves are lovely.


The landscaping of that courtyard must have cost an absolute FORTUNE :eek: and the finish in the bathrooms didn't exactly look cheap either.


But Dermot's speech at the end reminded me - again - you can't bring it with you, if you've got the money (and they clearly do), spend it and enjoy it while you're able - well wear to them in a lovely house!

Addle

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Why was yer man so adamant that the budget was initally X, and NOTHING MORE, DERMOT - and less than halfway through the programme is spending money like it's going out of fashion and is (by my rough count) about 100 grand over budget and counting.


He's for the birds!

The budget for plan a was X, then the plan changed and the budget increased accordingly.

loyatemu

where's the confilct if he's designing his own house?

DB: "I think we should put in a plywood kitchen"
DB: "Yes, I agree Dermot"

he should be forced to take on another architect for the job and then we can watch them argue with each other for 2 episodes...

HeidiHeidi

Addle wrote: »

The budget for plan a was X, then the plan changed and the budget increased accordingly.

I realise that, but the editing made it come across that X was literally all the money they had to spare/could raise for the project.


It's all codology on the part of the programme makers to increase the dramatics, but it's annoying at this stage.

Muahahaha

Watched it back last night and must say I was astounded that they ended up with the pebble dash on the old house and inside it too. At the beginning of the show they said they categorically do not like the pebble dash and that it has to go, they didnt just say this once, it was mentioned a number of times. Then Dermot goes into his whole spiel about how isnt pebble dash lovely and its part of the character of the house, blah blah blah. And he brow beat them and wore them down so much about it that they relented, the wife even said something like 'it might grow on us' and the husband saying 'we have to trust the architect', etc

I thought that was pretty bad form on Bannons part, the client clearly said they dont like pebble dash but he decided he did and his 'challenge' this week was to get them around to his way of thinking. Great for Dermot but he's not the one who has to come in the driveway everyday and look at the ugly pebble dash, the same pebble dash that the clients specifically said they hated in the first place. If you hate pebble dash as they did then it is not just going to 'grow on you', you'll hate it forever yet that is what Bannon has left them with.

I think because Bannons architect fees are being paid by the TV company he feels he can get away with stuff like the above. If it was the client paying him €20k+ he might actually listen when they say literally say they hate something.

Addle

But he was right and they liked it in the end?
It was a profound change of heart really...

turbbo

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think because Bannons architect fees are being paid by the TV company he feels he can get away with stuff like the above. If it was the client paying him €20k+ he might actually listen when they say literally say they hate something.

Most clients are idiots with too much money - imagine what it would look like if they got what they actually wanted initially - I think RTI at least tries to add some design aspects to a project. In this case the pebble dash was as you say "hated" by the client - doesn't mean they can't change their minds - being open to new ideas not wallowing around in your own narrow view of what design can actually do. Talk about missing the point. This is the essence of architecture and what design is all about.

turbbo

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I realise that, but the editing made it come across that X was literally all the money they had to spare/could raise for the project.


It's all codology on the part of the programme makers to increase the dramatics, but it's annoying at this stage.

Same codology in grand designs over on channel 4 - when they start talking about budgets you need to just ignore because it usually just half truths added to spice up the show for a certain demographic.

freshpopcorn

What I found funny about the pebble dash was the guy said everybody who comes in says they love it.
I was like you hardly go into somebodies house and say you hate it.

Muahahaha

turbbo wrote: »

Most clients are idiots with too much money - imagine what it would look like if they got what they actually wanted initially - I think RTI at least tries to add some design aspects to a project. In this case the pebble dash was as you say "hated" by the client - doesn't mean they can't change their minds - being open to new ideas not wallowing around in your own narrow view of what design can actually do. Talk about missing the point. This is the essence of architecture and what design is all about.

Its one thing to introduce aspects of design to a build and see if the client *might* like them and go with that. But when the client say that they explicitly hate something then the architect is duty bound to listen to them and take their instruction instead of treating them as"idiots with too much money" as you say. Instead what we got was the architect brow beating them into submission on an aspect they hated. This was Bannon trying to create drama for TV, it was not him acting in their best interests and actually listening to what the like and what they dont like and going from there like a professional architect should. Theres a huge smack of 'Dermot knows better' and a level of arrogance on his behalf.

At the end of the day people hate stuff and you're not going to change their mind on it. I hate baked beans and if you got the worlds best Michilen starred chef to cook them for me I will still hate them, you cant polish a turd. Pebble dash falls into that category, if you don't like it to begin with it is not going to 'grow on you'. And if it was such a nice matieral to clad a building in then why are no new houses using it? I see brand new houses clad with brick, granite and even timber but never pebble dash. Theres a very good reason for that- people at large dont like it.

turbbo

freshpopcorn wrote: »

What I found funny about the pebble dash was the guy said everybody who comes in says they love it.
I was like you hardly go into somebodies house and say you hate it.

In the same vain you wouldn't go into somebodies house look at a rectangle of pebble dash on a wall and say you "love it" either unless you actually really liked it.
Not unless you really were a 2 faced gimp.

Sarn

I think the other problem with budgets is that people know what they want to get done and think that their budget is loads. When it goes out to tender they find out that prices are much higher than anticipated, so they have to either cut back what they’re getting or stump up the cash to get what they want (and only have to do it once!).

Muahahaha

freshpopcorn wrote: »

What I found funny about the pebble dash was the guy said everybody who comes in says they love it.
I was like you hardly go into somebodies house and say you hate it.

The exact same comment was made in my house while watching it on Sunday- if they were your friends and you visited their new house you would be saying you like the pebble dash on the inside. But as soon as you're in the car driving away you're saying 'what the hell were they thinking'. It might be two faced but thats the reality of it, no-one is going to critique their friends houses like that.

Idbatterim

Its one thing to introduce aspects of design to a build and see if the client *might* like them and go with that. But when the client say that they explicitly hate something then the architect is duty bound to listen to them and take their instruction instead of treating them as"idiots with too much money" as you say. Instead what we got was the architect brow beating them into submission on an aspect they hated. This was Bannon trying to create drama for TV, it was not him acting in their best interests and actually listening to what the like and what they dont like and going from there like a professional architect should. Theres a huge smack of 'Dermot knows better' and a level of arrogance on his behalf.

i think they are more likely to go with his ideas, even if they dont like them, as they are on TV. Sure what would those idiots know about their own taste, isnt dermot bannon the expert? they risk looking like fools to some of the public and that would be a large concern to joe soap here...

Muahahaha

Idbatterim wrote: »

i think they are more likely to go with his ideas, even if they dont like them, as they are on TV. Sure what would those idiots know about their own taste, isnt dermot bannon the expert? they risk looking like fools to some of the public and that would be a large concern to joe soap here...

Oh Id agree and there was definitely an element of them being Dermot Bannon superfans and therefore they found it very hard to stand up to him and disagree. Look how hard it was for the wife to say no to the plywood kitchen, it was a real struggle for her as she weighed up her own tastes against a brow beating Dermot Bannon telling them it is gorgeous. She walked in the house in Sandymount and immediately did not like it the plywood kitchen and this was clearly written all over her face. But yet we still had to endure Dermot trying to force her into something she didn't like.

A good architect would listen, rethink and find something that they do like and when they see it the decision is made within seconds on first impressions. But as this is for TV we have to have the 'drama'. Don't get me wrong it is entertaining viewing but I just think that the entertainment and drama Bannon provides can sometimes be at the expense of the client ending up with something they dont like to start with and likely never will.

Idbatterim

Muahahaha wrote: »

Oh Id agree and there was definitely an element of them being Dermot Bannon superfans and therefore they found it very hard to stand up to him and disagree. Look how hard it was for the wife to say no to the plywood kitchen, it was a real struggle for her as she weighed up her own tastes against a brow beating Dermot Bannon telling them it is gorgeous. She walked in the house in Sandymount and immediately did not like it the plywood kitchen and this was clearly written all over her face. But yet we still had to endure Dermot trying to force her into something she didn't like.

A good architect would listen, rethink and find something that they do like and when they see it the decision is made within seconds on first impressions. But as this is for TV we have to have the 'drama'. Don't get me wrong it is entertaining viewing but I just think that the entertainment and drama Bannon provides can sometimes be at the expense of the client ending up with something they dont like to start with and likely never will.

I agree, its not like wall you just change the colour, a kitchen is bloody expensive. The tv aspect just changes the dynamic, it needs to be a compromise, bannon isnt going to be seen to change all of his proposals either. I personally dont mind the pebble dash, I wonder was it power washed down. The man cave room, is personal taste and is extremely easy to change to bland colour at any point. Its easy to spend mad money, I hope they dont have a problem repaying it at some point!

turbbo

Muahahaha wrote: »

At the end of the day people hate stuff and you're not going to change their mind on it.

That is NOT a fact - I know plenty of people that have gone from hating something to loving it - including myself.

Muahahaha wrote: »

I hate baked beans and if you got the worlds best Michilen starred chef to cook them for me I will still hate them, you cant polish a turd. Pebble dash falls into that category, if you don't like it to begin with it is not going to 'grow on you'.

Food taste and taste in architecture are NOT the same - usually tastes in food are developed at a very young age in some cases like yours are almost hardwired - I don't think taste in architecture or design falls into the "hardwired" category, usually people can be won over by design - i.e. you might not like it to begin with but it will grow on you - etc.

Muahahaha wrote: »

And if it was such a nice matieral to clad a building in then why are no new houses using it? I see brand new houses clad with brick, granite and even timber but never pebble dash. There's a very good reason for that- people at large dont like it.

Like all finishes/designs - it becomes a fashion for a period in time - it's not fashionable at the moment I agree - doesn't mean you need to destroy it if it already exists. Lots of gothic architecture would not be fashionable today doesn't mean you'd rip down the Notre-Dame.

Sleepy

For those giving out about the budget, take a look at this week's grand designs for a lesson in what can be done with very little cash. Timescale goes out the window mind!

Muahahaha

turbbo wrote: »

Food taste and taste in architecture are NOT the same - usually tastes in food are developed at a very young age in some cases like yours are almost hardwired - I don't think taste in architecture or design falls into the "hardwired" category, usually people can be won over by design - i.e. you might not like it to begin with but it will grow on you - etc.

Would disagree, you can easily have entrenched views and tastes on certain types of architecture- one key example is brutalism- it completely divides opinion even amongst architects themselves. You either like it or you don't and many people fall into the latter category and will never change their minds. Dublin is littered with Sam Stephensons brutalist architecture and there really isnt much love for it, it hasn't grown on people and if it was proposed to knock it down there wouldn't be much complaint.

To be clear Im not saying everything design wise cannot grow on you if you dont immediately like it- people can and do grow to like design such as seen with the Eiffel Tower which was much maligned by Parisians when it was first constructed but is loved universally today. But the likes of pebble dash does not and will never fall into the Eiffel Tower category.

Bricks and stone have been used to clad buildings for hundreds of years now and as materials they have stood the test of time and are still widely used today. Pebble dash is a creation of 1960s Ireland when matierals were expensive to import and builders had to find ways to save money. It deserves to stay in the 1960s and it will never come back into fashion over bricks and stone which transcend trends that have come and gone.

Idbatterim

just went looking for information on the grand designs project another poster mentioned, think it aired yesterday. Now that is a project! Kind of bored of room to improve. In general mundane boring properties, big budget!

Its not much of a challenge in fairness, well paying paying the money back will be, but I mean the projects themselves...

turbbo

Idbatterim wrote: »

just went looking for information on the grand designs project another poster mentioned, think it aired yesterday. Now that is a project! Kind of bored of room to improve. In general mundane boring properties, big budget!

Its not much of a challenge in fairness, well paying paying the money back will be, but I mean the projects themselves...

RTI has become a tad repetitive - always a fixer upper never a ground up project guess they would need to change the title for that to work.

Grand Designs can be a bit hit and miss too though - I've watched it over the years and it has changed a lot - again you can see the "fashion" aspect to a lot of the projects over the years. I wouldn't be too critical of RTI as these shows go - what was that awful one years ago on RTE that seemed to be all about how much insulation you used in the walls, the guy didn't give a $****e about the layout or design just how many mms of insulation. Although in a way a good mix of the technical spec and design aspects would in my mind make a better quality show. Grand Designs back in the day was exactly that - they usually covered a lot about the engineering and why you would install one type of heating over another etc. That stuff is interesting to people I think - although they don't do that stuff now either.

LizT

Sleepy wrote: »

For those giving out about the budget, take a look at this week's grand designs for a lesson in what can be done with very little cash. Timescale goes out the window mind!

It was interesting but he did the vast majority of work by himself. That’s not feasible/desirable for most people and labour makes up a huge part of the budget for building projects.

Sleepy

LizT wrote: »

It was interesting but he did the vast majority of work by himself. That’s not feasible/desirable for most people and labour makes up a huge part of the budget for building projects.

Oh, I know that. Most of us don't have the luxury of spending 5 years building a home but some do and, ime, you really can teach yourself how to do most jobs yourself. Obviously, there's legislation in place limiting what you can do but most of us are capable of tackling quite a lot of the work ourselves.