Aldi ID policy

goz83

I'm nearly 30. I bought alcohol from dunnes without incident from age 15 to 18 without ever being asked for ID. On my 18th birthday, by chance, the lady asked me for ID. I told her I had only purchased a bottle of Jameson the night before from her, but she asked for ID. I showed her my provisional license and her face was priceless

In the case of the OP, I would have told the staff member that if I wasn't allowed buy alcohol with valid ID, I wouldn't be buying anything there again and I would have walked out, leaving all my shopping on the belt/trolley. Who are they to refuse alcohol and draw conclusions that I might be buying for a minor? Cheeky feckers! If I have my 10 year old son with me, do I need to bring his birth cert to prove I am his legal guardian?

wmpdd3

http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php/navigation-mainmenu-30/local-news/4298-test-purchase-leads-to-two-day-closure-and-500-fine-for-retailer.html

A TOPAZ filling station in Limerick has been ordered to close its off-licence sales for a period of two days after a test purchase made by an underage girl on behalf of An Garda Siochana, revealed that the shop assistant never asked for ID. Ard Services, with a registered address at Deansgrange Road, Dublin, the company responsible for 113 Topaz sites nationwide, 108 of which are licenced to sell intoxicating liquor, was before the court answering a summons charge after gardai detected the underage purchase on January 21, 2011.
Evidence was given that Sgt McMahon, attached to Mayorstone Garda Station, arranged with an underage minor to purchase six bottles of Heineken at the Caherdavin depot of Topaz, on the Ennis Road.
The youth was to meet at a pre- arranged venue and the purchase that was observed by Sergeant McMahon.
The court heard that the female store assistant failed to follow the in-house or legal procedures in asking for identification to verify that the purchaser was of age.
The defence counsel addressed Judge Aingeal Ni Chonduin, stating that she represented Ard Services and was entering a plea of guilty to the charges contrary to section 31 (2) and (3) of the Intoxicating liquor act 1988 as amended.

I have been training staff for years and 99% would never even consider breaking the law and stealing from their employer and are still afraid to ask for ID because for some reason in this country it is seen as 'being cheeky'.

If they do not follow the law and serve alcohol to a minor the employee gets a criminal conviction. They are in the same boat as a employee that steals from the employer.

I'd have no issue putting back your shopping, its my job.
The store is not going to break the law just to keep a customer.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

goz83

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Give it a couple more years and they will be supervising you drinking it!

Basq

Funniest one I've had lately is being ID'd in Aldi buying Panadol. Told the girl I wouldn't show her ID, and just left. Last time I checked, the legal age for buying paracetemol was 16. I'm 29 FFS... kinda regret not asking to see a manager but was fuming over the whole thing.

Del2005

goz83 wrote: »

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Give it a couple more years and they will be supervising you drinking it!

They already have these in place. Maybe it's the owners of these supervised places that are making the law that require shops to ID everyone who's standing beside the person buying alcohol, but I've seen plenty of underage people drinking in these supervised places.

Getting asked for ID when with someone buying alcohol isn't an Irish thing. It happens in all countries with strict licenceing laws. We where refused a sale in the US of several hundred $s worth of beer because one guy forgot his ID. Next place we left him in the car.

It's just not worth the retailers while to risk selling alcohol if there are 2, or more people, buying it and 1 doesn't have ID as they could loose at least 2 days business if it's a controlled purchase, or they are reported, as well as a big fine.

Magnetics

My auntie had the same problem in Aldi but this example is a bit more extreme!

She was doing her weekly shop and happened to have 2 bottles of red wine and 6 cans of beer for her husband in the trolley. Half her groceries had been scanned through by the the sales assistant and she was asked did her 14 year old son, who was helping with the shopping, have ID. Bear in mind that my auntie is in her mid forties and my cousin looks 15 at an absolute push! She didn't even ask for the manager, she just walked out and left her shopping there because she was so angry that the assistant wouldn't sell her the alcohol

We all slag her about it now but jesus christ what a ridiculous situation to be put in! Common sense has to prevail is circumstances like these but I think the floor managers want robots on the tills, and drill it into their heads that everyone is a possible law breaker

Del2005

Magnetics wrote: »

My auntie had the same problem in Aldi but this example is a bit more extreme!

She was doing her weekly shop and happened to have 2 bottles of red wine and 6 cans of beer for her husband in the trolley. Half her groceries had been scanned through by the the sales assistant and she was asked did her 14 year old son, who was helping with the shopping, have ID. Bear in mind that my auntie is in her mid forties and my cousin looks 15 at an absolute push! She didn't even ask for the manager, she just walked out and left her shopping there because she was so angry that the assistant wouldn't sell her the alcohol

It's not just Aldi, or Ireland, any country which has strict liquor laws has the same policies. A friend in the US can't bring her 10 year to the shops when they want to buy booze.

Magnetics wrote: »

Common sense has to prevail is circumstances like these but I think the floor managers want robots on the tills, and drill it into their heads that everyone is a possible law breaker

Common sense has nothing to do with it. The shops risk being closed if they sell to someone under age and controlled purchases are regularly used. So a store manager has to weight up the benefits of allowing a person buy alcohol accompanied by someone without ID v's holding onto their and the staffs jobs.

Magnetics

Del2005 wrote: »

Common sense has nothing to do with it. The shops risk being closed if they sell to someone under age and controlled purchases are regularly used. So a store manager has to weight up the benefits of allowing a person buy alcohol accompanied by someone without ID v's holding onto their and the staffs jobs.

Jesus if someone behind the till can't differentiate between a 19 year old young fella going in and buying 2 slabs of beer for his mates and a woman in her mid forties doing the family shop and buying a bottle of wine, I have very little hope for humanity. Common sense has everything to do with it

UrbanSea

Sometimes it can be so frustrating. Was in Dunnes with a girl I know last year and she was buying a bottle of vodka and I was at the till with her. The one asked me for I.D, I told her without getting annoyed that it wasn't me buying it but she said she had to. Showed her my licence but she said they didn't take licences so she couldn't take it.

Went to Tesco across the road and I hung back. Tesco wouldn't accept her passport because it was three months out of date, but took my licence.


Have heard Aldi are the most frustrating. Me and two friends went there about three months ago for beer. Each of us had a packet of cans and the one said we'd have to all show her id. We did but she wouldn't take the Northern fella's driver's licence and none of us could get it then. Annoying

Corruptedmorals

I had to be trained in the Dunnes alcohol policy over and over again, despite never once working in the supermarket or actually selling alcohol, but just in case someone from head office asked me about it. They are TERRIFIED of selling underage so the policy gets stricter and stricter, not just the think 25 bit, but staff are also supposed to be vigilant of underagers hanging around outside, or in the carpark (neither of which are visible at all from the supermarket of the store in question).

It's really the Gardai pushing for tighter laws. Oh, you ID'd whoever the Gardai sent in, but not the person with them? They make it worth the store's priority because it WILL get shut down for a few days, fined and have to reapply for a license. And the store make it worth the cashier's while by writing it into their contracts that it is automatic dismissal. They also run the risk of a criminal conviction too. But what does that matter if you're offended at being asked? I think you'll find people want to keep their jobs. And it's not the store's fault, they want to sell to you! It is the Gardai really pushing the alcohol policy. 'Think 25' is stupid but it's just there to remove the margin of error. Not everybody is brilliant at guessing ages and not everybody looks their age. And I find it funny when people say 'But I bought drink off you yesterday/last week!'. How memorable a transaction was that amongst hundreds? You'll only be remembered in a supermarket if you're a complete freak. I used to have customers come back 5 minutes later and say 'Back again!'..I'd have completely forgotten them.

womandriver

Was asked for ID In Aldi one evening, produced my passport from my handbag as I had been in the UK the previous week. Was told they don't accept passports as a form of ID, age cards only. I've never had an age card, never thought I'd need one when I have a valid passport (plus I'm well in to my twenties). Argued it with the manager but to no avail, somehow a passport which is sufficient for boarder control is not sufficient to buy a bottle wine in Aldi. Ended up going to tesco instead. Thought it was a bit ridiculous.

LowKeyReturn

womandriver wrote: »

Was asked for ID In Aldi one evening, produced my passport from my handbag as I had been in the UK the previous week. Was told they don't accept passports as a form of ID, age cards only. I've never had an age card, never thought I'd need one when I have a valid passport (plus I'm well in to my twenties). Argued it with the manager but to no avail, somehow a passport which is sufficient for boarder control is not sufficient to buy a bottle wine in Aldi. Ended up going to tesco instead. Thought it was a bit ridiculous.

There is no defence of due diligence (i.e. asked for ID) except a Garda Age card. If they don't ask for that, if they do make a mistake and sell alcohol to a minor, they are going to get fined even if they produced an Irish passport issued by Michael D himself.

Passport shouldn't be out and about with you, it has a particular purpose you alluded to in your post.

womandriver

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

There is no defence of due diligence (i.e. asked for ID) except a Garda Age card. If they don't ask for that, if they do make a mistake and sell alcohol to a minor, they are going to get fined even if they produced an Irish passport issued by Michael D himself.

Passport shouldn't be out and about with you, it has a particular purpose you alluded to in your post.

Since when is a Garda age card the only acceptable form of ID? To my knowledge they are not mandatory so how does one identify themselves without one?

I worked for many years in a shop which sold alcohol during my college years and we were never made aware that passports or driver license were not acceptable. This was a large chain who took the matter of selling alcohol to minors very seriously and we were regularly reminded of the importance of being vigilant. I seriously doubt they it would have escaped their attention if we were not upholding the law by accepting passports and driver licences. Also to my knowledge never failed a spot check.

And I think I clearly stated why I had my passport with me but thanks for your guidance ....

LowKeyReturn

womandriver wrote: »

Since when is a Garda age card the only acceptable form of ID? To my knowledge they are not mandatory so how does one identify themselves without one?

And I think I clearly stated why I had my passport with me but thanks for your guidance ....

Since the amending statutory instrument to one of the licensing acts which there is not a hope in hell in me finding. There was a thread on this is the Legal Discussions forum, or it might have been here, about 9 months ago. It's not the only form of ID, it'd the only form of ID that provides a defence of due diligence against a prosecution.

A retail legal department would be well versed in it. A German retailer, might if one was to resort to stereotypes, be tighter on compliance than a UK / Irish one.

womandriver

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Since the amending statutory instrument to one of the licensing acts which there is not a hope in hell in me finding. There was a thread on this is the Legal Discussions forum, or it might have been here, about 9 months ago. It's not the only form of ID, it'd the only form of ID that provides a defence of due diligence against a prosecution.

A retail legal department would be well versed in it. A German retailer, might if one was to resort to stereotypes, be tighter on compliance than a UK / Irish one.

From the Citizens info website:

National Age Card
The Gardai (Irish police force) operate the National Age Card scheme. These Cards are proof that the cardholder is 18 or over, they are not identity cards. The Card shows the name of the holder, their date of birth, a photograph and a security feature, such as a hologram. You can order your Card online at agecard.ie. It costs €10.
Anyone found guilty of forging or altering the details on an official Age Card can be liable on summary conviction to a class C fine or to a prison term not exceeding 12 months or to both. Licence holders that allow people between 18-21 years on their premises without appropriate identification can face a fine. (Appropriate identification includes a National Age Card, a passport, a driving licence, or a identitiy card issued by an EU member state).
Page updated: 7 March 2012

LowKeyReturn

I surprise even myself!

31. Sale of intoxicating liquor to persons under the age of 18 years

(1) The holder of any licence shall not—

(a) sell or deliver or permit any person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor to a person under the age of 18 years,

(b) sell or deliver or permit any person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor to any person for consumption on his licensed premises by a person under the age of 18 years,

(c) permit a person under the age of 18 years to consume intoxicating liquor on his licensed premises, or

(d) permit any person to supply a person under the age of 18 years with intoxicating liquor on his licensed premises.

(2) The holder of a licence of any licensed premises shall not sell or deliver or permit any person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor to any person for consumption off his licensed premises by a person under the age of 18 years in any place other than a private residence.

(3) A person who contravenes subsection (1) or (2) of this section shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding—

(a) £300, in the case of a first offence, or

(b) £500, in the case of a second or any subsequent offence,

and the offence shall be deemed for the purposes of Part III (which relates to the endorsement of licences) of the Act of 1927 to be an offence to which that Part of that Act applies.

(4) In any proceedings against a person for a contravention of subsection (1) or (2) of this section, it shall be a defence for such person to prove that the person in respect of whom the charge is brought produced to him an age card relating to such person or that he had other reasonable grounds for believing that such person was over the age of 18 years, or, if the person is charged with permitting another person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor contrary to the said subsection (1) or (2), to prove that an age card was produced by the person concerned to that other person or that that other person had other reasonable grounds for believing as aforesaid.

Age card is define by section 40;

40. Age cards

(1) The Minister may by regulations provide for the issue to a person of or over the age of 18 years, if so requested by the person and subject to his compliance with the regulations, of a card (in this Part referred to as “an age card”) specifying the age of the person.

(2) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1) of this section, regulations under this section may make provision in relation to all or any of the following matters:

(a) the information as to his age and any other matters specified in the regulations to be furnished by a person (in this subsection referred to as “the applicant”) applying for the issue of an age card,

(b) a form of application for an age card,

(c) the charging and payment of fees in respect of the issue or replacement of an age card,

(d) the form of an age card and the particulars (which may include a photograph of the holder thereof) to be specified in an age card,

(e) the period of validity of an age card,

(f) the person by whom an age card shall be issued,

(g) any other matter in relation to which it is, in the opinion of the Minister, necessary or expedient to make provision.

Not the first time a retailer hasn't been aware of a provision. You just need look at the amount of people that win in the SmCC.

To be fair this was enacted in 1988 so would it be giving away you age to...

(I'm only joking - hopefully taken in the spirit intended - actually, to be fair, you did say you were in your twenties.)

EDIT: Bollocks the bit in bold has been amended - I hate west law - off to find the amending SI

Merch

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

Dunnes, Lidl and Tesco do that, too. If I have my very tall 17 year old son with me I send him ahead to wait past the tills to avoid this.
I think it's a good idea. Too many just-about legals are buying for their underage friends.

Been in a few tescos where people were being sold Alcohol, clearly not checked and in most cases just scanned through where it looked like they were underage, was going to bring it up with a manager but but I dont think it would go anywhere.

Lelantos

^^ no mention of a parent buying alcohol for an underage teen for private consumption in the home, which is legal.

LowKeyReturn

14.—(1) Section 31 (sale of intoxicating liquor to under-age persons) of the Act of 1988 is amended—

(a) in subsection (3), by the deletion of “, and the offence shall be deemed for the purposes of Part III (which relates to the endorsement of licences) of the Act of 1927 to be an offence to which that Part of the Act applies”, and

(b) by the substitution of the following for subsection (4)—

“(4) In any proceedings for a contravention of subsection (1) or (2) of this section, it shall be a defence for the defendant to prove that the person in respect of whom the charge is brought produced to him or her an age card relating to that person or, if the defendant is charged with permitting another person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor contrary to either of those subsections, to prove that an age card relating to the person to whom the intoxicating liquor was sold or delivered was produced by that person to that other person.”.

Although interestingly (for me not for same people) the rest of the SI allows for "all due diligence" for any other scenario like a pub, club etc. Me thinks drafting error?

Soundman

womandriver wrote: »

Was asked for ID In Aldi one evening, produced my passport from my handbag as I had been in the UK the previous week. Was told they don't accept passports as a form of ID, age cards only. I've never had an age card, never thought I'd need one when I have a valid passport (plus I'm well in to my twenties). Argued it with the manager but to no avail, somehow a passport which is sufficient for boarder control is not sufficient to buy a bottle wine in Aldi. Ended up going to tesco instead. Thought it was a bit ridiculous.

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

There is no defence of due diligence (i.e. asked for ID) except a Garda Age card. If they don't ask for that, if they do make a mistake and sell alcohol to a minor, they are going to get fined even if they produced an Irish passport issued by Michael D himself.

Passport shouldn't be out and about with you, it has a particular purpose you alluded to in your post.

Yet from the agecard website:

What documentation do I need to get my Age Card?
You will need the following:
• Your Birth Certificate or your GNIB (Garda National Immigration Bureau) Card or your valid Passport (in date)
• One other form of ID.



So even to get an age card you need to provide a valid form of identification such as your passport.

LowKeyReturn

I didn't say it made any sense.

ResearchWill

womandriver wrote: »

Since when is a Garda age card the only acceptable form of ID? To my knowledge they are not mandatory so how does one identify themselves without one?

I worked for many years in a shop which sold alcohol during my college years and we were never made aware that passports or driver license were not acceptable. This was a large chain who took the matter of selling alcohol to minors very seriously and we were regularly reminded of the importance of being vigilant. I seriously doubt they it would have escaped their attention if we were not upholding the law by accepting passports and driver licences. Also to my knowledge never failed a spot check.

And I think I clearly stated why I had my passport with me but thanks for your guidance ....

Since 2000, the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2000 amended the 1988 Act, all set out in the following case, http://courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/491cd9c28228ffbe802576bf004b7705?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,o%27connors

I do believe the matter is under appeal to the Supreme Court.

ResearchWill

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

I surprise even myself!

31. Sale of intoxicating liquor to persons under the age of 18 years

(1) The holder of any licence shall not—

(a) sell or deliver or permit any person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor to a person under the age of 18 years,

(b) sell or deliver or permit any person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor to any person for consumption on his licensed premises by a person under the age of 18 years,

(c) permit a person under the age of 18 years to consume intoxicating liquor on his licensed premises, or

(d) permit any person to supply a person under the age of 18 years with intoxicating liquor on his licensed premises.

(2) The holder of a licence of any licensed premises shall not sell or deliver or permit any person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor to any person for consumption off his licensed premises by a person under the age of 18 years in any place other than a private residence.

(3) A person who contravenes subsection (1) or (2) of this section shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding—

(a) £300, in the case of a first offence, or

(b) £500, in the case of a second or any subsequent offence,

and the offence shall be deemed for the purposes of Part III (which relates to the endorsement of licences) of the Act of 1927 to be an offence to which that Part of that Act applies.

(4) In any proceedings against a person for a contravention of subsection (1) or (2) of this section, it shall be a defence for such person to prove that the person in respect of whom the charge is brought produced to him an age card relating to such person or that he had other reasonable grounds for believing that such person was over the age of 18 years, or, if the person is charged with permitting another person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor contrary to the said subsection (1) or (2), to prove that an age card was produced by the person concerned to that other person or that that other person had other reasonable grounds for believing as aforesaid.

Age card is define by section 40;

40. Age cards

(1) The Minister may by regulations provide for the issue to a person of or over the age of 18 years, if so requested by the person and subject to his compliance with the regulations, of a card (in this Part referred to as “an age card”) specifying the age of the person.

(2) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1) of this section, regulations under this section may make provision in relation to all or any of the following matters:

(a) the information as to his age and any other matters specified in the regulations to be furnished by a person (in this subsection referred to as “the applicant”) applying for the issue of an age card,

(b) a form of application for an age card,

(c) the charging and payment of fees in respect of the issue or replacement of an age card,

(d) the form of an age card and the particulars (which may include a photograph of the holder thereof) to be specified in an age card,

(e) the period of validity of an age card,

(f) the person by whom an age card shall be issued,

(g) any other matter in relation to which it is, in the opinion of the Minister, necessary or expedient to make provision.

Not the first time a retailer hasn't been aware of a provision. You just need look at the amount of people that win in the SmCC.

To be fair this was enacted in 1988 so would it be giving away you age to...

(I'm only joking - hopefully taken in the spirit intended - actually, to be fair, you did say you were in your twenties.)

EDIT: Bollocks the bit in bold has been amended - I hate west law - off to find the amending SI

The above section was amended in 2000,

14(1)(b) of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2000, (No. 17/2000),

“In any proceedings for a contravention of subsection (1) or (2) of this section, it shall be a defence for the defendant to prove that the person in respect of whom the charge is brought produced to him or her an age card relating to that person or, if the defendant is charged with permitting another person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor contrary to either of those subsections, to prove that an age card relating to the person to whom the intoxicating liquor was sold or delivered was produced by that person to that other person.”

LowKeyReturn

ResearchWill wrote: »

The above section was amended in 2000,

14(1)(b) of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2000, (No. 17/2000),

“In any proceedings for a contravention of subsection (1) or (2) of this section, it shall be a defence for the defendant to prove that the person in respect of whom the charge is brought produced to him or her an age card relating to that person or, if the defendant is charged with permitting another person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor contrary to either of those subsections, to prove that an age card relating to the person to whom the intoxicating liquor was sold or delivered was produced by that person to that other person.”

Many thanks RW - I managed to find it last night it's in post #51 there. Any opinion on whether it's a drafting error if you have a chance to have a look? I'm guessing it makes no difference to the enforcement of it? Just seems a bit odd that due diligence is a defence in one instance but not another.

ResearchWill

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Many thanks RW - I managed to find it last night it's in post #51 there. Any opinion on whether it's a drafting error if you have a chance to have a look? I'm guessing it makes no difference to the enforcement of it? Just seems a bit odd that due diligence is a defence in one instance but not another.

My understanding is the Defence was removed and was not a drafting error. The matter is currently awaiting a Supreme Court hearing on the constitutionality of the section.

Rioghain

I just bought some wine in Aldi there. While the girl at the till
still serving the person before me she turned to me and said I need to see ID.
I showed her my Garda ID and she scrutinised and gave it back.
Then she proceeded to take what looked like a receipt book out of a drawer
And wrote something down. Any idea what this is about? Is it policy to note down every time you sell alcohol to somebody? Thought it was odd myself.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Cashier in Dunnes did the exact same after selling beer to the people in front of me this morning. He took out a notebook and entered something in it. Strange - call the cops!

LowKeyReturn

Due diligence record.

Del2005

Rioghain wrote: »

I just bought some wine in Aldi there. While the girl at the till
still serving the person before me she turned to me and said I need to see ID.
I showed her my Garda ID and she scrutinised and gave it back.
Then she proceeded to take what looked like a receipt book out of a drawer
And wrote something down. Any idea what this is about? Is it policy to note down every time you sell alcohol to somebody? Thought it was odd myself.

Mikaela Defeated Wristwatch wrote: »

Cashier in Dunnes did the exact same after selling beer to the people in front of me this morning. He took out a notebook and entered something in it. Strange - call the cops!

It's your date of birth. I've noticed on some tills when they give the special booze beep that it asks the operator to enter the DOB or the other option is person looks over 35. Unfortunately I get option 2