Alan Pardew

mosstin

Reekwind wrote: »

Really? How would you define a headbutt then? And what was Pardew doing - attempting to calm Meyler via a gentle forehead-to-forehead massage?

Didn't you hear his interview? He was "moving the player out of the way" with his head. You couldn't make this **** up!

yabadabado

keith16 wrote: »

Give me a break, Pardew did nothing you wouldn't see week in week out across Europe.

You really think Pardew should have trapped the ball and flicked it up to Meyler?

It was much more than a nudge. It was the shove of a school yard bully upset that he didn't get his ball back.

Read my post again .where did I say he should have trapped the ball and flicked to Meyler?
Bit upset are you ?

Dolph Starbeam

Bacchus wrote: »

Just watching MOTD now. LOL at Steve Bruces comment about how proud he was that Meyler restrained himself from reacting to the headbutt... while we're shown footage of Meyler being held back by various teammates roaring his head off

If you listen to him again you will notice Bruce said that Meyler wanted to give him one back, he was just happy that it was Meyler and not another player that would fall to the ground and roll around.

keith16

yabadabado wrote: »

Read my post again .where did I say he should have trapped the ball and flicked to Meyler?
Bit upset are you ?

You said he could have stopped it, implying that he is under some sort of obligation to do so.

I'm not upset at all, I just want to bring some perspective to the whole thing. It seems to me if you are a player you can make contact with the manager but not the other way around, why?

I get that Pardew has previous, but he stood up for himself here, and I don't think people should be frothing at the mouth looking to hang him just because he is wearing a suit.

yabadabado

keith16 wrote: »

You said he could have stopped it, implying that he is under some sort of obligation to do so.

I'm not upset at all, I just want to bring some perspective to the whole thing. It seems to me if you are a player you can make contact with the manager but not the other way around, why?

I get that Pardew has previous, but he stood up for himself here, and I don't think people should be frothing at the mouth looking to hang him just because he is wearing a suit.

I implied nothing at all,stop trying to tell me what I said.

he could have stopped it, he didn't.

keith16

yabadabado wrote: »

I implied nothing at all,stop trying to tell me what I said.

he could have stopped it, he didn't.

Ok then, tell me why he should have stopped it?

Reekwind

keith16 wrote: »

I'm not upset at all, I just want to bring some perspective to the whole thing. It seems to me if you are a player you can make contact with the manager but not the other way around, why?

There are two reasons:

The first is that "contact" is a complete non-issue. The problem is that not that Pardew "made contact" with Mayler but that he did so in an aggressive, confrontational and malicious manner. Or, in short: a headbutt is not the same as a push.

Secondly, Padrew is a manager. The role is supposed to bring with it a a degree of level-headedness and restraint. Managers are expected to know better and not lose the rag by trying to start fights with players. They don't wear suits just so the assistant ref doesn't confuse them with a player

yabadabado

keith16 wrote: »

Ok then, tell me why he should have stopped it?

He could have stopped it, plenty of managers do.I never said he should have and never said he was obliged to.

You are looking for an argument that isn't there.

keith16

yabadabado wrote: »

He could have stopped it, plenty of managers do.I never said he should have and never said he was obliged to.

You are looking for an argument that isn't there.

I don't want to get into an argument over a small detail, but I don't blame Pardew for not stopping it.

Plenty of managers would stop it if it was a throw for their own team. Anyway, I do think Pardew is wrong, but I don't think Meylers role in the whole thing should be overlooked either.

keith16

Reekwind wrote: »

There are two reasons:

The first is that "contact" is a complete non-issue. The problem is that not that Pardew "made contact" with Mayler but that he did so in an aggressive, confrontational and malicious manner. Or, in short: a headbutt is not the same as a push.

It was no more confrontational or malicious than what Meyler did.

Reekwind wrote: »

Secondly, Padrew is a manager. The role is supposed to bring with it a a degree of level-headedness and restraint. Managers are expected to know better and not lose the rag by trying to start fights with players. They don't wear suits just so the assistant ref doesn't confuse them with a player

He is still only human and despite all his past transgressions, I think people are getting way more upset over this than they should be.

Steve Bruce came out afterwards and said that they accept his apology and it was time to move on which I think was very sensible. Pardew also put his hands up and admitted he was wrong in front of the cameras which can't have been easy.

He has fully accepted his employers sanctions, and I expect he will do the same with anything the FA hands down.

Saying he should be sacked / resign is way OTT.

Again, I'm no fan of him, but I am no fan of a witch hunt either where there is no cause. That's all I'll say on it.

weldoninhio

Newcastle would have been as well binning him. I hope the FA throw the book at him. Meyler barely brushed past him. Pardew would be no loss to football.

Reekwind

keith16 wrote: »

It was no more confrontational or malicious than what Meyler did

It was considerably more so. Meyler gave a push to the shoulder to get to the ball; Padrew haedbutted the player in an attempt to cause bodily harm. If two players had done this on the pitch then the punishment would have been, respectively, a free kick (yellow card max) and a straight red with heavy suspension for violent conduct.

I don't really see how that can be argued.

He is still only human and despite all his past transgressions, I think people are getting way more upset over this than they should be.

I think that's a bit of a strawman. Padrew, despite 'being only human' clearly committed an unacceptable act. That's reflected in the punishment that his club and, presumably, the FA will visit on him.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to question whether this exceptionally rare case of manager violence should result in a sacking (as it has in the past). It hardly amounts to people "getting way more upset".

Pardew also put his hands up and admitted he was wrong in front of the cameras which can't have been easy

It was inevitable. His actions were absolutely indefensible and he didn't have a leg to stand on. Apology was the only possible route

I don't want to get into an argument over a small detail, but I don't blame Pardew for not stopping it.

This is considerably more of a strawman. Nobody is blaming Padrew for not stopping the ball. There are a hundred and one things that he could have done but all he is being criticised for is the one thing that he did do: lash out violently at a player

Skylinehead

weldoninhio wrote: »

Newcastle would have been as well binning him. I hope the FA throw the book at him. Meyler barely brushed past him. Pardew would be no loss to football.

And Pardew barely brushed Meyler. What's your point?

LuckyLloyd

He did something he shouldn't have and he will be appropriately punished. That's where it starts and ends for me. It's a passionate and combative man's game with a huge amount of pressure and expectation placed upon all those involved. Football players and managers are not moral compasses and it isn't a normal workplace.

fullstop

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He did something he shouldn't have and he will be appropriately punished. That's where it starts and ends for me. It's a passionate and combative man's game with a huge amount of pressure and expectation placed upon all those involved. Football players and managers are not moral compasses and it isn't a normal workplace.

So women can't play football now? Or kids?

Liam O

fullstop wrote: »

So women can't play football now? Or kids?

Not in the PL, I would think.

fullstop

Liam O wrote: »

Not in the PL, I would think.

He said it's a man's game, not a man's league.

weldoninhio

Skylinehead wrote: »

And Pardew barely brushed Meyler. What's your point?

Newcastle United, and most likely the FA can see my point. If you can't there's no point in me trying to explain it to you.

AdamD

Reekwind wrote: »

It was considerably more so. Meyler gave a push to the shoulder to get to the ball; Padrew haedbutted the player in an attempt to cause bodily harm. If two players had done this on the pitch then the punishment would have been, respectively, a free kick (yellow card max) and a straight red with heavy suspension for violent conduct.

If Pardew 'headbutted' him in an attempt to cause bodily harm, he would have caused bodily harm.

The moral outrage about this is crazy, just ban him for a few games and be done with it, hardly a big issue.

LuckyLloyd

fullstop wrote: »

So women can't play football now? Or kids?

fullstop wrote: »

He said it's a man's game, not a man's league.

:rolleyes:

Professional men's football as played in the English League structure (or generally in leagues, continental and international competitions across the world) is a man's game. It follows that there will be behaviours present that would be unacceptable in traditional work places or that should not be tolerated in youth / female football (though if a female manager and player were to get into a similar conflict in the heat of the moment my opinion would be the same frankly).

People are so desperate to be outraged these days.

fullstop

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Professional men's football as played in the English League structure (or generally in leagues, continental and international competitions across the world) is a man's game. It follows that there will be behaviours present that would be unacceptable in traditional work places or that should not be tolerated in youth / female football (though if a female manager and player were to get into a similar conflict in the heat of the moment my opinion would be the same frankly).

People are so desperate to be outraged these days.

Ignorant statement is what it was. And I think it's hilarious that you're trying to suggest it's part of the game. If you headbutted someone in the street you'd be arrested.

AdamD

fullstop wrote: »

Ignorant statement is what it was. And I think it's hilarious that you're trying to suggest it's part of the game. If you headbutted someone in the street you'd be arrested.

Cause that's in the slightest way relevant, wow. Use your brain.

LuckyLloyd

fullstop wrote: »

Ignorant statement is what it was. And I think it's hilarious that you're trying to suggest it's part of the game. If you headbutted someone in the street you'd be arrested.

It seems unfortunate that you are unable to process a couple of obvious differences between:

- conduct expected in the street of a man and conduct generally allowed on a professional football pitch;
- what Pardew did to Meyler yesterday and a full on headbutt;

You are however entitled to continue foaming at the mouth over what is, frankly, a non incident.

fullstop

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It seems unfortunate that you are unable to process a couple of obvious differences between:

- conduct expected in the street of a man and conduct generally allowed on a professional football pitch;
- what Pardew did to Meyler yesterday and a full on headbutt;

You are however entitled to continue foaming at the mouth over what is, frankly, a non incident.

So laws don't apply on a football pitch?

I will, thanks for your blessing :rolleyes:

Reekwind

AdamD wrote: »

If Pardew 'headbutted' him in an attempt to cause bodily harm, he would have caused bodily harm

So what was he trying to do? What else did Alan Padrew hope to accomplish by thrusting his forehead into Meyler's face?

(And incidentally, because it's beside the point, your logic is badly flawed. If I hit somebody with a glancing punch does the failure to connect properly mean that there was nothing aggressive or malicious about my attempt?)

The moral outrage about this is crazy, just ban him for a few games and be done with it, hardly a big issue.

Again with this bizarre strawman. Ban him for a few games versus what? Put him up against a wall and shoot him?

There seems to be this bizarre doublethink: Alan Pardew is guilty of violent conduct and deserves to be punished. Yet Alan Pardew didn't attempt to headbutt someone and anyone who suggests otherwise or thinks that this deserves punishment is "foaming at the mouth".

I think people are playing contrarian for the sake of playing contrarian.

LuckyLloyd

Reekwind wrote: »

I think people are playing contrarian for the sake of playing contrarian.

Nah, some of us saw the incident, laughed at the ridiculous nature of it and accepted that he'd receive a hefty fine + ban. We also anticipated the moral outrage brigade to come out in full force. The irony of Robbie Savage being the man to spur them on is rather delicious.

I suppose I'm being contrary too when I asses Bruce's suggestion that Meyler be praised for not rolling around on the ground as completely hilarious? Oh, look at Meyler - he provoked Pardew and then didn't seize the opportunity to engage in scumbag unmanly behaviour thereafter. What a hero!

Reekwind

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nah, some of us saw the incident, laughed at the ridiculous nature of it and accepted that he'd receive a hefty fine + ban. We also anticipated the moral outrage brigade to come out in full force

And the "moral outrage brigade" is claiming what? That this, plus his history, could cost Pardew his job? Those bleeding heart hippies disgust me

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It seems unfortunate that you are unable to process a couple of obvious differences between:

- conduct expected in the street of a man and conduct generally allowed on a professional football pitch;
- what Pardew did to Meyler yesterday and a full on headbutt;

You are however entitled to continue foaming at the mouth over what is, frankly, a non incident.

What about a fan coming onto the pitch and doing this? Should he be faced with the full rigours of the law and a lifetime ban which is almost certainly going to happen?

Why doesn't he get the same treatment as a manager on the touchline?

Bleating Lamb

Didnt see MOTD....what did Pardew say about the incident after the game?

Cienciano

I just saw the incident. Can we stop calling it a "headbutt"? It was pretty much nothing.

Neeson

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Didnt see MOTD....what did Pardew say about the incident after the game?

Said he was ashamed. Made a fool of himself and let down himself the club his wife and his beautiful children. He was mortified.

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

What about a fan coming onto the pitch and doing this? Should he be faced with the full rigours of the law and a lifetime ban which is almost certainly going to happen?

Why doesn't he get the same treatment as a manager on the touchline?

If a fan ran onto the pitch and did a version of a yellow card offense he would be faced with full rigours of the law and lifetime ban.

WHY DOESN'T HE JUST GET A YELLOW CARD LIKE THE PLAYERS THOUGH HUH?

Seems to me that if you talk about what actually happened in a vacuum there isn't a whole lot to talk about. So we get useless comparisons to men on streets, in the stands and in office environments. Good stuff.

Dolph Starbeam

Cienciano wrote: »

I just saw the incident. Can we stop calling it a "headbutt"? It was pretty much nothing.

What are we supposed to call it? Headbutt is the best way to describe it. As I have already said, there are no excuses and people trying to play it down is just ridiculous. I don't agree that he should lose his job over it, that decision thankfully was for Newcastle to make, he should and will however receive a lengthy ban from the FA.

RayCon

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oh, look at Meyler - he provoked Pardew and then didn't seize the opportunity to engage in scumbag unmanly behaviour thereafter. What a hero!

Hhhhmmmmm ...

So lunging your head into somebody's face = Not Scumbag behavior.
Over exaggerating injury from said lunge = Scumbag behavior.

... hhhmmmmmmm

LuckyLloyd

RayCon wrote: »

Hhhhmmmmm ...

So lunging your head into somebody's face = Not Scumbag behavior.
Over exaggerating injury from said lunge = Scumbag behavior.

... hhhmmmmmmm

No, they're both scumbag behaviours (where have I said different?). What Pardew did was silly. Not the way I'd behave myself but far from a tarring and feathering offense either though to be fair.

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

WHY DOESN'T HE JUST GET A YELLOW CARD LIKE THE PLAYERS THOUGH HUH?

A player who has been running around with his blood pumping on a football field is a totally different thing.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If a fan ran onto the pitch and did a version of a yellow card offense he would be faced with full rigours of the law and lifetime ban.

Seems to me that if you talk about what actually happened in a vacuum there isn't a whole lot to talk about. So we get useless comparisons to men on streets, in the stands and in office environments. Good stuff.

This is a manager on the sideline not somebody who has been running around on a football field. Imo he should be subject to the same legal standard as the football fan.

Reekwind

Cienciano wrote: »

I just saw the incident. Can we stop calling it a "headbutt"? It was pretty much nothing.

Right. Everyone stop calling it a headbutt. It is now to be exclusively referred to as 'an ineffectual rapid head forward movement'

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

A player who has been running around with his blood pumping on a football field is a totally different thing.

This is a manager on the sideline not somebody who has been running around on a football field. Imo he should be subject to the same legal standard as the football fan.

Eh...I guarantee managing a sports team at that level will get your blood pumping (or certainly your blood pressure rising). It's a massively high stress job and it would make as much or as little sense to treat fans and managers the same as it would to treat fans and players the same.

The access and involvement of a manager is completely different to that of a fan.

What would satisfy you people anyway? Dismissal? Legal proceedings? A lifetime ban from the sport?

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Eh...I guarantee managing a sports team at that level will get your blood pumping (or certainly your blood pressure rising). It's a massively high stress job and it would make as much or as little sense to treat fans and managers the same as it would to treat fans and players the same.

The access and involvement of a manager is completely different to that of a fan.

What would satisfy you people anyway? Dismissal? Legal proceedings? A lifetime ban from the sport?

Criminal charges is what I'd like to see.

Also you fail to understand just how invested some football fans are at games. They go through stress just like a manager but it doesn't matter when they do something wrong because thats not considered.

Kimbot

It was more of an eskimo kiss than a headbutt in all fairness.

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

Criminal charges is what I'd like to see.

Also you fail to understand just how invested some football fans are at games. They go through stress just like a manager but it doesn't matter when they do something wrong because thats not considered.

lol, cool

Football fans are banned from encroaching onto the playing area; ****ing objects onto the playing area; ****ing objects at other parts of the stadium; attacking fans in or around the stadium; inciting racial hatred or political extremism from the stands.

What has any of that got to do with Pardew and Meyler's handbags?

Paulegend

again if it was suarez on another player people would be calling it assault and saying that suarez could have given meyler aids

pardew deserves a big punishment from it. nothing more nothing less. if he gets sacked it will be because the club dont feel he can keep the dressing room after that. the incident itself doesnt warrant a sacking. it does however warrant a severe warning and a long ban from the touchline

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol, cool

Football fans are banned from encroaching onto the playing area; ****ing objects onto the playing area; ****ing objects at other parts of the stadium; attacking fans in or around the stadium; inciting racial hatred or political extremism from the stands.

What has any of that got to do with Pardew and Meyler's handbags?

Did you miss where I said its not considered. They did something wrong and get charged for it, same should apply here. If the courts let him off then fair enough but he should be charged.

Skylinehead

Paulegend wrote: »

again if it was suarez

Ffs give it a rest with this crap.

Paulegend

Skylinehead wrote: »

Ffs give it a rest with this crap.

its true though.

ok never mind suarez

what if it was joey barton? or eric cantona? or vinney jones?

fact is if it was a person with a bad name then he would have the book thrown at him.

while it wasnt exactly a headbutt there was intent and it wasnt the first altercation he has had............. in that game alone!!!

Pardew doesnt deserve to have this written off as a bad day at the office. what he done was wrong and he will be punished

AdamD

Paulegend wrote: »

its true though.

ok never mind suarez

what if it was joey barton? or eric cantona? or vinney jones?

fact is if it was a person with a bad name then he would have the book thrown at him.

while it wasnt exactly a headbutt there was intent and it wasnt the first altercation he has had............. in that game alone!!!

Pardew doesnt deserve to have this written off as a bad day at the office. what he done was wrong and he will be punished

Your point is wrong though. Suarez bit somebody, got a ban. Joey Barton punched and kicked his way off the pitch vs City, got a ban. They didn't get treated any differently than Pardew will be.

Paulegend

AdamD wrote: »

Your point is wrong though. Suarez bit somebody, got a ban. Joey Barton punched and kicked his way off the pitch vs City, got a ban. They didn't get treated any differently than Pardew will be.

im just saying the way people are talking in here its like pardew was trikced into it.

the mentioned players got what they deserved and so will pardew.

i fail to see how you missed my point though

Skylinehead

Paulegend wrote: »

its true though.

ok never mind suarez

what if it was joey barton? or eric cantona? or vinney jones?

The same thing would happen to any of them.

fact is if it was a person with a bad name then he would have the book thrown at him.

And so is Pardew.

So I am failing to see your point. If it was Suarez....what would happen differently? Nothing.

Paulegend

Skylinehead wrote: »

The same thing would happen to any of them.


And so is Pardew.

So I am failing to see your point. If it was Suarez....what would happen differently? Nothing.

yes ive said that the book will be thrown at him what are you on about. i said he will be punished.

my comment was in relation to the fact that people on here are downplaying it and pretending that it was a nothing incident. my point is that if it was any of the others that where mentioned the same people on here would NOT be playing it down

so YES you are failing to see my point.

we agree that he will be dealt with. jesus read a full post before getting all narky about it

Skylinehead

Paulegend wrote: »

yes ive said that the book will be thrown at him what are you on about. i said he will be punished.

my comment was in relation to the fact that people on here are downplaying it and pretending that it was a nothing incident. my point is that if it was any of the others that where mentioned the same people on here would NOT be playing it down

so YES you are failing to see my point.

we agree that he will be dealt with. jesus read a full post before getting all narky about it

Nobody actually downplaying it though, we're all saying he should be punished. Whereas others seem to think he should be sacked. Suarez wasn't sacked