Taxi rank - bumper to bumper

foggy_lad

yoginindublin wrote: »

Hi! I just have a question. As a passenger, if I see a line of taxi, can I choose not to take the next on in the line?

Yes and it is also illegal for taxis in Dublin to park on the rank so close to the car in front that they can't pull away from the rank if a passenger wants to get in.

like these taxis on Aston Quay

Spook_ie

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes and it is also illegal for taxis in Dublin to park on the rank so close to the car in front that they can't pull away from the rank if a passenger wants to get in.

like these taxis on Aston Quay

Have to show me where it says it's illegal to park close together! Of course you could always get them to spread out and hang off the back off the rank to give you something else to moan about ( you SURE you're not a secret taxi driver? )

Might not allow you to immediately take a car of your choice but if you are willing to wait until a car at the front moves off then no problem AFAICS.

If your in a hurry then take the one at the front or flag one down

EDIT there could be an illegality if there were more cars on the rank than allowed for in the relevant by laws, in the case of Aston Quay 11 vehicles
http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/Documents/Taxi_Rank_Bye-_Laws_2011_Fina.pdf

foggy_lad

Spook_ie wrote: »

Have to show me where it says it's illegal to park close together! Of course you could always get them to spread out and hang off the back off the rank to give you something else to moan about ( you SURE you're not a secret taxi driver? )

Might not allow you to immediately take a car of your choice but if you are willing to wait until a car at the front moves off then no problem AFAICS.

If your in a hurry then take the one at the front or flag one down

EDIT there could be an illegality if there were more cars on the rank than allowed for in the relevant by laws, in the case of Aston Quay 11 vehicles
http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/Documents/Taxi_Rank_Bye-_Laws_2011_Fina.pdf

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/Documents/Taxi_Rank_Bye-_Laws_2011_Fina.pdf

The driver of a street service vehicle shall comply with any directions given to him or her by a member of the Garda Síochána in relation to placing of the street service vehicle at the appointed stand or the bringing of the street service vehicle into, or the removal of the street service vehicle from, the appointed stand.

If told to leave the rank by a Garda none of those vehicles would be able to.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

If told to leave the rank by a Garda none of those vehicles would be able to.

Will ye give over with that oul Guff,Foggy...:eek:

You and me both know,that save for the odd "Spectacular",when an RTE Camera Crew accompany the multi-disciplinary Garda/Revenue/DSP/RSA Hit Squad,the Gardai have withdrawn from any hands-on supervision of Taxi Driver on-street behaviour.

This has allowed quite a body of Hard-Chaws to assert their dominance on many City Centre Streets,with many of these Gentlemen having no difficulty at all in ignoring Garda instructions....;)

Spook_ie

foggy_lad wrote: »

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/Documents/Taxi_Rank_Bye-_Laws_2011_Fina.pdf
If told to leave the rank by a Garda none of those vehicles would be able to.

THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT and nothing in the bye laws requiring you to leave a gap, how you remove your vehicle if instructed by the G.S would be up to you to get the guys to give you the extra foot you need

foggy_lad

Spook_ie wrote: »

THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT and nothing in the bye laws requiring you to leave a gap, how you remove your vehicle if instructed by the G.S would be up to you to get the guys to give you the extra foot you need

It does not say remove the vehicle when some space can be sorted out with the guys or after a few cars get a fare so that room can be made for you, it must be done to comply with the direction of a garda and not doing so means you are in breach of the bye-laws and are then no longer plying for hire.

Spook_ie

Circular Argument....

There is no LAW requiring you to leave a gap. Just because the GS can ask you to leave a rank or park your vehicle backwards on it doesn't make it a LAW to leave a gap.

Victor

A garda is entitled to give reasonable directions to drivers. If a driver is boxed in, the garda can get other drivers to move.

rainbowdash

Surely if you want to able to offer a service that enables you to pull off mid rank you would leave enough space between you and the car in front of you in the first place?

Spook_ie

rainbowdash wrote: »

Surely if you want to able to offer a service that enables you to pull off mid rank you would leave enough space between you and the car in front of you in the first place?

Maybe so, however, without a full rank photograph it's difficult to tell if they are squashed together to allow the 11 cars on the rank or to fit a 12th. If it's to accommodate the latter then yeah an infringement, but at the end of the day who cares except for the Anti Taxi Brigade of Boards.ie

Losty Dublin

Spook_ie wrote: »

Maybe so, however, without a full rank photograph it's difficult to tell if they are squashed together to allow the 11 cars on the rank or to fit a 12th. If it's to accommodate the latter then yeah an infringement, but at the end of the day who cares except for the Anti Taxi Brigade of Boards.ie

If anything it gives them the choice of an extra taxi on the rank so it's win win for the begrudgers

corktina

Spook_ie wrote: »

THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT and nothing in the bye laws requiring you to leave a gap, how you remove your vehicle if instructed by the G.S would be up to you to get the guys to give you the extra foot you need

no but obstructing the highway is an offense and those taxis are obstructing anyone in a wheelchair, with a pram or making deliveries.

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

no but obstructing the highway is an offense and those taxis are obstructing anyone in a wheelchair, with a pram or making deliveries.

Once they are in a designated taxi rank then they are fine. It's up to pedestrians to exercise a certain amount of due care in and around vehicles, parked or moving.

Spook_ie

corktina wrote: »

no but obstructing the highway is an offense and those taxis are obstructing anyone in a wheelchair, with a pram or making deliveries.

Once again there is NO legal requirement to leave a space for anyone between the vehicles, the rank is NOT designated into 11 equidistant spaces by any linear marking, not like a parking bay in a pay n display area. Also it is not a loading bay so no requirement to cater for deliveries.

!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.! Parking Bays

!_______________________________________! Taxi Rank

As long as ther are no more than 11 taxis no harm being done except to the ATBB

corktina

i disagree...they have no right to prevent pedestrian access

foggy_lad

Spook_ie wrote: »

Once again there is NO legal requirement to leave a space for anyone between the vehicles, the rank is NOT designated into 11 equidistant spaces by any linear marking, not like a parking bay in a pay n display area. Also it is not a loading bay so no requirement to cater for deliveries.

!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.!.__.! Parking Bays

!_______________________________________! Taxi Rank

As long as ther are no more than 11 taxis no harm being done except to the ATBB

So if i get into a taxi that is blocked into the rank as described in the pictures and the driver can't exit the rank what is the story then? I can tell you if a taxi driver was unable to get away from the rank immediately for me I'd be contacting the regulator with the drivers details and making a complaint!

Spook_ie

foggy_lad wrote: »

So if i get into a taxi that is blocked into the rank as described in the pictures and the driver can't exit the rank what is the story then? I can tell you if a taxi driver was unable to get away from the rank immediately for me I'd be contacting the regulator with the drivers details and making a complaint!

Only if he was unwilling to take you at all, I suppose if he sat with the meter on waiting for them to move you might have a valid complaint, but if he said yes as soon as i can move we'll go, then I wouldn't see them entertaining a complaint about the driver.

Face it they are NOT breaking the law no matter how much you'd like them to be, unless they have 12+ cars on the rank

Spook_ie

corktina wrote: »

i disagree...they have no right to prevent pedestrian access

Why, you want to jay walk across the road do you? There is no need for pedestrian access at that stretch unless you are intending on jaywalking rather than using the crossing

Whatever happened to the jaywalking crackdown?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056770140

rainbowdash

corktina wrote: »

i disagree...they have no right to prevent pedestrian access

But they are not parkng in a wheelchair bay or across pedestrian crossings.

Pedestrians should use appropriate footpaths and traffic lights, not be dodging between lanes of traffic.

corktina

nonsense, streets are primarily for people not cars. To park any vehicle anywhere like that is obstructing the highway.

murphaph

I don't see any legal problem parking nose to tail but if I owners decent taxi I'd park it so I could leave the rank any time. Too many shît box taxis in Dublin because customers accept them.

foggy_lad

Spook_ie wrote: »

Only if he was unwilling to take you at all, I suppose if he sat with the meter on waiting for them to move you might have a valid complaint, but if he said yes as soon as i can move we'll go, then I wouldn't see them entertaining a complaint about the driver.

Face it they are NOT breaking the law no matter how much you'd like them to be, unless they have 12+ cars on the rank

Is it not each drivers responsibility to leave enough space between them and the car in front so they can pull away from the rank? They can easily do it when one gets a raido job or hailo job.

Spook_ie

foggy_lad wrote: »

Is it not each drivers responsibility to leave enough space between them and the car in front so they can pull away from the rank? They can easily do it when one gets a raido job or hailo job.

Is it a legal requirement though, remember this argument is started by your post

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes and it is also illegal for taxis in Dublin to park on the rank so close to the car in front that they can't pull away from the rank if a passenger wants to get in.

like these taxis on Aston Quay

Snipped images[/URL]

I just maintain that without relevant laws then what they are doing, though not liked by you IS NOT illegal as long as there are 11 or less cars there

Spook_ie

corktina wrote: »

nonsense, streets are primarily for people not cars. To park any vehicle anywhere like that is obstructing the highway.

No legislation to prevent it happening therefore it's not obstructing the highway. They are not preventing traffic from traveling along the quays because they are in a designated taxi rank, they are not preventing people crossing the road because they aren't blocking designated crossing places.

Spook_ie

Don't know how you can do it in line so if you look at this Google maps picture and figure out where to place the little man icon, you can count the vehicles and see the gaps when there are only 10 vehicles on the rank, squash them all up to get the 11th and hey presto...

Ben D Bus

foggy_lad wrote: »

So if i get into a taxi that is blocked into the rank as described in the pictures and the driver can't exit the rank what is the story then?

Then just like your avatar, you'll look like a muppet for choosing to get into a vehicle that's unable to move.

I will take whatever taxi I want from a rank but I wont make life difficult for myself just to assert my rights. Thats a bit mad.

In practice I usually hail a cab rather than go to a rank anyway. Even in the vicinity of a rank.

Spook_ie

Ben D Bus wrote: »

Then just like your avatar, you'll look like a muppet for choosing to get into a vehicle that's unable to move.

I will take whatever taxi I want from a rank but I wont make life difficult for myself just to assert my rights. Thats a bit mad.

In practice I usually hail a cab rather than go to a rank anyway. Even in the vicinity of a rank.

But surely the whole point of getting into a vehicle that you prefer would be to spend more time in it anyway, therefore he is being catered for just that he doesn't realise it!

corktina

Spook_ie wrote: »

No legislation to prevent it happening therefore it's not obstructing the highway. They are not preventing traffic from traveling along the quays because they are in a designated taxi rank, they are not preventing people crossing the road because they aren't blocking designated crossing places.

that's simply not the case. By the same token there is no law saying you must cross at designated places, in fact in 99% of our streets there is no designated place. If you block the street ais obstruction which is an offence. Traffic driving along the quays is not the ONLY traffic, pedestrians are traffic too

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

that's simply not the case. By the same token there is no law saying you must cross at designated places, in fact in 99% of our streets there is no designated place. If you block the street ais obstruction which is an offence. Traffic driving along the quays is not the ONLY traffic, pedestrians are traffic too

There is absolutely no obligation on a motorist to move a car to accommodate pedestrians to cross the road; be it in a marked or unmarked car parking space, a loading bay or a taxi rank. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise is the case.

corktina

i never said they should move, I said they shouldn't park like that in the first place as they are obstructing other road users.

Spook_ie

corktina wrote: »

that's simply not the case. By the same token there is no law saying you must cross at designated places, in fact in 99% of our streets there is no designated place. If you block the street ais obstruction which is an offence. Traffic driving along the quays is not the ONLY traffic, pedestrians are traffic too

Simple answer.. Show the legislation, thus far there is no evidence of ANY legislation to NOT allow vehicles on a taxi rank to leave a gap between the front and rear.

As to PARKING spaces then yeah there is a requirement that the whole of the vehicle be contained within the designated space and (usually) there would be a marked gap between every set of 2 spaces which would not qualify as part of the parking space

!___!___!X!___!___!X!___!___!

But we're not talking PARKING spaces, we're talking about a taxi rank where the driver is required to remain with the vehicle ( Actual part of the byelaws )

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

So if i get into a taxi that is blocked into the rank as described in the pictures and the driver can't exit the rank what is the story then? I can tell you if a taxi driver was unable to get away from the rank immediately for me I'd be contacting the regulator with the drivers details and making a complaint!

Why would you get in a taxi that is blocked in the first place? It doesnt make any sense.

corktina

Spook_ie wrote: »

Simple answer.. Show the legislation, thus far there is no evidence of ANY legislation to NOT allow vehicles on a taxi rank to leave a gap between the front and rear.

As to PARKING spaces then yeah there is a requirement that the whole of the vehicle be contained within the designated space and (usually) there would be a marked gap between every set of 2 spaces which would not qualify as part of the parking space

!___!___!X!___!___!X!___!___!

But we're not talking PARKING spaces, we're talking about a taxi rank where the driver is required to remain with the vehicle ( Actual part of the byelaws )

I don't need to show you the legislation, we all KNOW obstructing the highway is an offence

Spook_ie

corktina wrote: »

I don't need to show you the legislation, we all KNOW obstructing the highway is an offence

If you were blocking it here, where the diagonal line is, then yes

but there ARE NOT ANY designated spaces on a rank, it's that simple

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

no but obstructing the highway is an offense and those taxis are obstructing anyone in a wheelchair, with a pram or making deliveries.

How are they obstructing the highway? They are in a taxi rank. There is a pedestrian crossing at the top of that rank and the taxi rank is not a place to cross especially with a pram or in a wheelchair or on foot , it would be a bit foolish to do so. Who would be making deliveries to a taxi rank? Mcdonalds?

corktina

not all traffic is motor vehicles,not all traffic goes along the road, much of it goes at right angles to it,

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Why would you get in a taxi that is blocked in the first place? It doesnt make any sense.

Because it is supposed to be "plying for hire" but this can't be the case if the driver can't physically leave the rank! a requirement of remaining on any rank is that the taxi is available for hire so any that are unable to drive away from the rank are not plying for hire and thus breaking the bye-laws.

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

not all traffic is motor vehicles,not all traffic goes along the road, much of it goes at right angles to it,

What????????

Point being Cork is that there wont be any traffic using the taxi rank apart from the taxi's, so how are taxi's in a taxi rank obstructing anything?

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Because it is supposed to be "plying for hire" but this can't be the case if the driver can't physically leave the rank! a requirement of remaining on any rank is that the taxi is available for hire so any that are unable to drive away from the rank are not plying for hire and thus breaking the bye-laws.

To be fair Foggy, thats just scrapping the barrel just for arguments sake.

Spook_ie

foggy_lad wrote: »

Because it is supposed to be "plying for hire" but this can't be the case if the driver can't physically leave the rank! a requirement of remaining on any rank is that the taxi is available for hire so any that are unable to drive away from the rank are not plying for hire and thus breaking the bye-laws.

They are plying for hire and they are available, just not to your liking that they'd need to do some shuffling ( probably very reluctantly and probably not safely on a major road ) to facilitate a request from someone who wants to enforce his right to take any taxi.

The crux of the question AGAIN is are there more than 11 taxis on the rank? There are several ranks where to fit the designated number of vehicles on would need them to be closely nose to tail

corktina

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What????????

Point being Cork is that there wont be any traffic using the taxi rank apart from the taxi's, so how are taxi's in a taxi rank obstructing anything?

I don't know how to explain this any clearer, i know I'll shout....PEDESTRIANS ARE TRAFFIC, THEY ARE ENTITLED TO PASS BETWEEN THE TAXIS.....

Spook_ie

corktina wrote: »

I don't know how to explain this any clearer, i know I'll shout....PEDESTRIANS ARE TRAFFIC, THEY ARE ENTITLED TO PASS BETWEEN THE TAXIS.....

You will have to provide something other than saying you have the right, as stated ( several times ) taxi ranks are not parking spaces, do they need to squash up that close to get 11 vehicles on, the googlemaps photo of 10 cars on the rank would suggest that they do, if so then they are DOING NOTHING wrong. You have NO ENTITLEMENT to pass between vehicles do you think you have an entitlement to pass between the red and silver cars in this photo?

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

I don't know how to explain this any clearer, i know I'll shout....PEDESTRIANS ARE TRAFFIC, THEY ARE ENTITLED TO PASS BETWEEN THE TAXIS.....

NO THEY ARE NOT. Thats what the pedestrian crossings are for near that rank . Are you seriously suggesting that there should be enough room for someone with a pram or a wheelchair to foolishly cross over a busy road inbetween parked cars and put themselves and oncoming traffic in danger?

corktina

All modes of use of the roads are Road-users, they are all traffic....

as i have said before, I am talking generally about parking like that, and there are many places where there are no crossing facilities...and in any case there is no compulsion to use a crossing and all pedestrians are free to cross wherever they chose.

corktina

Spook_ie wrote: »

You will have to provide something other than saying you have the right, as stated ( several times ) taxi ranks are not parking spaces, do they need to squash up that close to get 11 vehicles on, the googlemaps photo of 10 cars on the rank would suggest that they do, if so then they are DOING NOTHING wrong. You have NO ENTITLEMENT to pass between vehicles do you think you have an entitlement to pass between the red and silver cars in this photo?

whats parking spaces got to do with it? if they don't leave room for the free passage of pedestrians they are obstructing the highway. OF COURSE you have an entitlement to cross the road unimpeded.

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

All modes of use of the roads are Road-users, they are all traffic....

as i have said before, I am talking generally about parking like that, and there are many places where there are no crossing facilities...and in any case there is no compulsion to use a crossing and all pedestrians are free to cross wherever they chose.

Pedestrians are free to use a bit of common sense when crossing the road. Its not like the taxi's are 100 metres long and pedestrians having to take a detour to cross a road. Taxi's in a taxi rank are obstructing nothing .

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

whats parking spaces got to do with it? if they don't leave room for the free passage of pedestrians they are obstructing the highway. OF COURSE you have an entitlement to cross the road unimpeded.

Its unwise to cross between parked cars .

corktina

11 taxis is quite a lot to walk around if you are a bit unsteady on your pins....

corktina

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its unwise to cross between parked cars .

well then you'd probably never get to cross anywhere, what a silly thing to say! (Btw apparently they aren't parked...can't be if they aren't parking spaces....

Spook_ie

corktina wrote: »

whats parking spaces got to do with it? if they don't leave room for the free passage of pedestrians they are obstructing the highway. OF COURSE you have an entitlement to cross the road unimpeded.

According to your rationale then the two cars are impeding you from crossing the road because there isn't any space between them! However they are legitimately parked within the boundaries designated by the white lines on the road and if not within the white lines then they could be served with an infringement notice, now go take a look at a taxi rank and look at the white lines on it, do you see the difference yet!

Yes that's right the taxi rank does not have markings other than at the start and end of it, the vehicles are therefore allowed to station themselves anywhere within that marked zone and if to get 11 vehicles on means they have to be within inches of each other then that's the way it is....It still doesn't make it ILLEGAL

Spook_ie

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its unwise to cross between parked cars .

corktina wrote: »

well then you'd probably never get to cross anywhere, what a silly thing to say! (Btw apparently they aren't parked...can't be if they aren't parking spaces....

It's even more unwise to cross between working vehicles that may be required to move off to facilitate impatient foggys that would report the driver for not running you over because they were paying for the time to wait for you to get out of the way!

It's simple, doesn't matter if you like it or not, it's NOT ILLEGAL to put taxis on a rank within inches of each other