Taxi rank - bumper to bumper

A_Sober_Paddy

Start in the middle of the queue and try and negotiate a price...

My mate lives out in the sticks and normally a taxi home is €20, he'll try to get someone to do it for €10-12, normally the lad towards the end of the queue is more than willing to better any of the other drivers ahead of him.

My brother once negotiated with a driver to drop himself, me and his mate all home(3 different locations) for €12, as he was dropping the last guy off the meter was reading €26.5, wasn't a very happy driver, who then tried to not honor the deal, but that didn't happen, and we all got home on the cheap:p

corktina

whatever you may say it's obstruction,and obstruction is illegal.we aren't talking about two cars within inches of each other we are talking 10 or 11....more in some places no doubt.I doubt anyone would ever be prosecuted for it, but it doesn't alter the fact it is not legal to obstruct the highway.

Victor

Guys, lay off the sharpness, please.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The few times I am foreced to use O'Connal Street rank I will ALWAYS pick a taxi thats not at the front as the drivers on that rank are the biggest f****** W****** in the industry.

Less with the inflammatory language please.

Ben D Bus wrote: »

Then just like your avatar, you'll look like a muppet for choosing to get into a vehicle that's unable to move.

Careful now

Moderator

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Spook_ie wrote: »

Why, you want to jay walk across the road do you? There is no need for pedestrian access at that stretch unless you are intending on jaywalking rather than using the crossing

Whatever happened to the jaywalking crackdown?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056770140

Only an offence within 15 metres of a pedestrian crossing.

Parking bumper to bumper could constitute obstructing the road to people wishing to use the taxi in front of you. What of people wishing to use the boot or enter the left hand side of the taxi in front? Or a pedal cyclist wishing to enter traffic? Or someone wanting to cross the road to avoid the fight at the head of the queue?

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Why would you get in a taxi that is blocked in the first place? It doesnt make any sense.

Not blocked in, but what if the first wheelchair accessible taxi was number 5 in the queue and you had (a) a wheelchair or (b) more than 4 passengers or (c) a bicycle with a puncture or other large luggage item?

jimmycrackcorm

Recently I got into a waiting taxi only to be told to go to the front of the line. What is the correct response to say to the taxi driver to apply my rights to choose?

Ie. I can refuse to use the first taxi but what if they insist they stick to their rules...

foggy_lad

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Recently I got into a waiting taxi only to be told to go to the front of the line. What is the correct response to say to the taxi driver to apply my rights to choose?

Ie. I can refuse to use the first taxi but what if they insist they stick to their rules...

If any driver refuses to take you then you get their details and report them to the regulator.

im invisible

who cares? i'm more interested in whether i can get my bike between two 'not parked' cabs

Mr Simpson

foggy_lad wrote: »

If any driver refuses to take you then you get their details and report them to the regulator.

I did this, never got a response from them.

Spook_ie

Victor wrote: »

<snipped>

---

Only an offence within 15 metres of a pedestrian crossing.

Parking bumper to bumper could constitute obstructing the road to people wishing to use the taxi in front of you. What of people wishing to use the boot or enter the left hand side of the taxi in front? Or a pedal cyclist wishing to enter traffic? Or someone wanting to cross the road to avoid the fight at the head of the queue?

Not blocked in, but what if the first wheelchair accessible taxi was number 5 in the queue and you had (a) a wheelchair or (b) more than 4 passengers or (c) a bicycle with a puncture or other large luggage item?

The back of the rank is within 15 meters of the crossing. EDIT sorry 22 meters see following post

People wishing to place items in the boot are afforded reasonable assistance by the driver to accomplish this task ( supposed to anyway )

Pedal cyclist shouldn't be on the footpath trying to get onto the road

There's no fight at the front, the fight is with Foggy in the middle and Corktina trying to Jaywalk

WAT are accessible ( correction were ) from either side door, recent changes have allowed for rear access for wheelchairs and only one wheelchair accessible door, sense would be that the door should be on the kerbside of the vehicle but as in several cases the rank is on the wrong side of the road to facilitate this.

Best work practices suggest that passengers enter and leave a vehicle on the kerbside, in fact a driver permitting a passenger to open a door into the path of traffic does put themselves at risk of litigation if an accident is caused by a passenger opening a door into traffic

Spook_ie

From the DCC bye laws relating specifically to Aston Quay.

Aston Quay

On the north side of the
roadway in an indented bay from a point 75 metres west of
the western kerb on O’Connell bridge
Extending eastwards to a point 22 meters from
this kerb

no of spaces 11

So we have an allocated space of 75-22 meters = 53 meters for 11 vehicles

Given that the following are the vehicles specifications according to wikipedia

Avenisis 2003-2008 length 4.645 meters
Avensis 2008 - present length 4.695 meters
Mondeo 3rd gen 2000 - 2007 length 4.731 meters
Mondeo 4th Gen 2008-2013 length 4.844 meters


Therefore taking the shortest vehicle the 2003-2008 Avensis the length of 11 of them is

11 x 4.645 meters = 51.095 meters

subtracted from the allocated space of 53 meters

53-51.095=1.905 meters TOTAL space to be allocated between the 11 vehicles.....

Discounting the front of the first vehicle and the rear of the last vehicle gives you a space of 0.1905 meters between the vehicles or less than 20 cm for those of you not into decimals

Now if you still want, go take it up with DCC

And also it still isn't illegal and it's not obstructing traffic because it's not a part of the carriage way it's a TAXI RANK

Victor

Spook_ie wrote: »

People wishing to place items in the boot are afforded reasonable assistance by the driver to accomplish this task ( supposed to anyway )

But if it's a large pram or something, it would be difficult to manipulate into the boot without space.

Pedal cyclist shouldn't be on the footpath trying to get onto the road

Why not? Are cyclists not allowed pull away from stopped?

Best work practices suggest that passengers enter and leave a vehicle on the kerbside, in fact a driver permitting a passenger to open a door into the path of traffic does put themselves at risk of litigation if an accident is caused by a passenger opening a door into traffic

So, at this location, how are passengers meant to use the front left hand side door?

Spook_ie wrote: »

And also it still isn't illegal and it's not obstructing traffic because it's not a part of the carriage way it's a TAXI RANK

Getting(!) off-topic, but carriageway is from kerb to kerb. However, the offence is to obstruct a road - which is from boundary to boundary.

Spook_ie

Victor wrote: »

But if it's a large pram or something, it would be difficult to manipulate into the boot without space.

Why not? Are cyclists not allowed pull away from stopped?

So, at this location, how are passengers meant to use the front left hand side door?

Getting(!) off-topic, but carriageway is from kerb to kerb. However, teh offence is to obstruct a road - which is from boundary to boundary.

Life is full of little problems it's what makes life life, like having forgotten to legislate against left hand drive taxis

Why would a cyclist be starting from the passenger side of a rank? to do so would entail him being on the footpath, presumably he pushed his bike to this point would he not have mounted the bike prior to the rank or push it further to the end of the rank

Very carefully lest they get hit by an infuriated taxi driver that has been told "You must take me" by Foggy

But the rank isn't a part of the road as stated in the bye laws

On the north side of the roadway in an indented bay

None of which answer the question of the council see fit to allocate circa. 19cm of space between the vehicles, people have a problem with it, then they should ask the council rather than spout off about the illegality of it...Which reminds me, still haven't seen an SI mentioning it!

mikemac1

Have to love Aston Quay!

When it's busy in the evenings a taxi might pull along side it, throw on the "park anywhere" lights and wait for a space.

Lights turn green other side of O'Connell Bridge, the traffic comes thundering down the quays and one lane has to slow down...taxi in the way.

And if you're a pedestrian waiting to cross the road you may find a taxi reversing up onto the footpath so they can hang off the back of the rank.

Became a game of dare as the taximan looks at you in the rear view mirror and you look back, I ain't moving!

That 30km sign that is there now on the footpath largely solved that.

Crazy place :pac:

corktina

Spook_ie wrote: »

Life is full of little problems it's what makes life life, like having forgotten to legislate against left hand drive taxis

Why would a cyclist be starting from the passenger side of a rank? to do so would entail him being on the footpath, presumably he pushed his bike to this point would he not have mounted the bike prior to the rank or push it further to the end of the rank

Very carefully lest they get hit by an infuriated taxi driver that has been told "You must take me" by Foggy

But the rank isn't a part of the road as stated in the bye laws


None of which answer the question of the council see fit to allocate circa. 19cm of space between the vehicles, people have a problem with it, then they should ask the council rather than spout off about the illegality of it...Which reminds me, still haven't seen an SI mentioning it!

whether or not you can fit 11 taxis in is between the taxi industry and the Council. It is not any reason to block access to pedestrians/disabled/the elderley/pram pushers/cyclists etc.

Again I'll point out I'm not talking about any particular road, I'm talking in general, any road, any type of vehicle.

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

11 taxis is quite a lot to walk around if you are a bit unsteady on your pins....

How would they have got to the rank in the first place?

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

well then you'd probably never get to cross anywhere, what a silly thing to say! (Btw apparently they aren't parked...can't be if they aren't parking spaces....

Ever heard of pedestrian crossings?

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

whatever you may say it's obstruction,and obstruction is illegal.we aren't talking about two cars within inches of each other we are talking 10 or 11....more in some places no doubt.I doubt anyone would ever be prosecuted for it, but it doesn't alter the fact it is not legal to obstruct the highway.

They would only be obstructing the highway if they were sticking out onto the road and cars had to move around them.

Hilly Bill

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Recently I got into a waiting taxi only to be told to go to the front of the line. What is the correct response to say to the taxi driver to apply my rights to choose?

Ie. I can refuse to use the first taxi but what if they insist they stick to their rules...

If they wont let you take the taxi of your choice then go to a different rank or flag one down.

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

whether or not you can fit 11 taxis in is between the taxi industry and the Council. It is not any reason to block access to pedestrians/disabled/the elderley/pram pushers/cyclists etc.

Again I'll point out I'm not talking about any particular road, I'm talking in general, any road, any type of vehicle.

They are not blocking any access Tina. A taxi rank full of taxis is NOT an access point in the same way as a bus stop full of buses isnt.
To cross the a road safely you use a designated crossing point which a taxi rank isnt.

corktina

ANY vehicles I said...not just taxis...could be dustbins even.. Can you understand the priniciple that every road user is not necessarily a vehicle? They are blocking access from one side of the road to the other.

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

ANY vehicles I said...not just taxis...could be dustbins even.. Can you understand the priniciple that every road user is not necessarily a vehicle? They are blocking access from one side of the road to the other.

ONLY IF IT WAS A DESIGNATED CROSSING POINT AND NOT A LEGAL TAXI RANK .

corktina

that's is nonsense, there is no law to say you can't cross at a taxi rank and as I've said before ad nauseum, what if you are unsteady on your pins, on crutches or in a wheelchair and can't divert around 11 vehicles parked nose to tail. It's obstruction plain and simple, what ever it is that is stopping the passage of road users...and there are many many ,many places with no designated crossing places, and ever if there is, there is no law to say you must use it (except apparently witihn 15 metres (or 3 car lengths) I'm told.

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

whether or not you can fit 11 taxis in is between the taxi industry and the Council. It is not any reason to block access to pedestrians/disabled/the elderley/pram pushers/cyclists etc.

Again I'll point out I'm not talking about any particular road, I'm talking in general, any road, any type of vehicle.

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/pedestrians/pedestrians_crossing-the-road.html

Note that it says "Don’t cross near or at parked vehicles.".

valerossi

You can you have the right to choose the service you want to avail of, however some taxis won't take you if their is another one in front.

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

that's is nonsense, there is no law to say you can't cross at a taxi rank and as I've said before ad nauseum, what if you are unsteady on your pins, on crutches or in a wheelchair and can't divert around 11 vehicles parked nose to tail. It's obstruction plain and simple, what ever it is that is stopping the passage of road users...and there are many many ,many places with no designated crossing places, and ever if there is, there is no law to say you must use it (except apparently witihn 15 metres (or 3 car lengths) I'm told.

It would be obstruction if they hadnt a right to stop there in the first place.

How did they get there in the first place? Regardless of what condition they are in, its still an unsafe place to cross. Its just clutching at straws at this stage tina.

corktina

Losty Dublin wrote: »

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/pedestrians/pedestrians_crossing-the-road.html

Note that it says "Don’t cross near or at parked vehicles.".

ROTR are advice , not the law. Common sense says you wouldn't cross near parked cars (not that these taxis are parked of course...) but in most urban situations, you don't have a choice.

corktina

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It would be obstruction if they hadnt a right to stop there in the first place.

How did they get there in the first place? Regardless of what condition they are in, its still an unsafe place to cross. Its just clutching at straws at this stage tina.

No Sir, 'tis you clutching at straws! My arguement has been the same from the start...
it doesn't matter what you say, if they are parked so close together that they impede other road users (ie pedestrians et al) it's obstruction. They have a right to stop there, they don't have a an exclusive right to impede others.

AlekSmart

mikemac1 wrote: »

Have to love Aston Quay!

When it's busy in the evenings a taxi might pull along side it, throw on the "park anywhere" lights and wait for a space.

Lights turn green other side of O'Connell Bridge, the traffic comes thundering down the quays and one lane has to slow down...taxi in the way.

And if you're a pedestrian waiting to cross the road you may find a taxi reversing up onto the footpath so they can hang off the back of the rank.

Became a game of dare as the taximan looks at you in the rear view mirror and you look back, I ain't moving!

That 30km sign that is there now on the footpath largely solved that.

Crazy place :pac:

Surely not ?

I am quite certain that An Garda Siochana would take a very firm no-nonsense approach to the blocking of a major National Route in this manner....;)....would'nt they....

Mind you,removing the thundering fleets of 40 Tonne Artics from the Quays did kinda give these twits an inflated sense of indestructability...
....there was nothing like a line of Left-Hand Drive Eastern European trucks piloted by drivers all mad keen to get to the N7 to concentrate the mind of Tommy Taxidriver with the arse of his Avensis stickin out inviting a smack.....:o

Once the HGV threat was removed it only left the plebs (and the Gards) to be ignored

100% Blame in this instance however, to DCC and the NTA,as a blind chimpanzee would have put the Rank on the APPROACH to O Connell Bridge,along Burgh Quay,allowing far greater flexibility and safety of operation...for everybody,even those who don't use Taxis !!!!

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

ROTR are advice , not the law. Common sense says you wouldn't cross near parked cars (not that these taxis are parked of course...) but in most urban situations, you don't have a choice.

The best eight words you have used in this thread. Pedestrians should use some as well

Losty Dublin

AlekSmart wrote: »

100% Blame in this instance however, to DCC and the NTA,as a blind chimpanzee would have put the Rank on the APPROACH to O Connell Bridge,along Burgh Quay,allowing far greater flexibility and safety of operation...for everybody,even those who don't use Taxis !!!!

Alek, there was a rank on Burgh Quay some years ago. It was next to useless as it had drivers sometimes requiring to swing sharp left to make for D'Olier Street, which as you will agree is a dangerous practice to attempt, let alone in traffic. It was swallowed up into providing an extra 3 spaces for cars turning right onto O'Connell Street.

corktina

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The best eight words you have used in this thread. Pedestrians should use some as well

ninth word after the brackets is BUT

Spook_ie

OK specificly for Corktina...
I'm driving along the road, the lights at a junction turn red and the car in front slows and stops, I follow,slow and stop behind him leaving a gap of 30 cm or so, the next car following me slows and stops leaving a similar gap and so on for 11 cars, are we obstructing the highway?

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

No Sir, 'tis you clutching at straws! My arguement has been the same from the start...
it doesn't matter what you say, if they are parked so close together that they impede other road users (ie pedestrians et al) it's obstruction. They have a right to stop there, they don't have a an exclusive right to impede others.

To be honest, is someone ignores a pedestrian crossing a few feet away from a taxi rank and then moans that they cant cross the road because of the taxis ,should not be allowed out on their own.

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

ninth word after the brackets is BUT

I saw it, yes. To use your word of the day....

BUT there are far safer, more sensible, more apt places and more common sense places to cross than between parked cars or taxis anywhere

corktina

how many times have I said that I am talking in general and how many times have i said that many locations do not have designated crossing places?

In any case it's not "a few feet", in the case you are quoting it is up to the length of 11 cars....that's something like up to 150 feet there and 150 back...

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

how many times have I said that I am talking in general and how many times have i said that many locations do not have designated crossing places?

In any case it's not "a few feet", in the case you are quoting it is up to the length of 11 cars....that's something like up to 150 feet there and 150 back...

So its not about wanting to use the next taxi in line then, like the thread topic?

corktina

nope hasn't been for some while...not since that was comprehensively answered with a YES in about post 3

Hilly Bill

Case closed then

AlekSmart

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Alek, there was a rank on Burgh Quay some years ago. It was next to useless as it had drivers sometimes requiring to swing sharp left to make for D'Olier Street, which as you will agree is a dangerous practice to attempt, let alone in traffic. It was swallowed up into providing an extra 3 spaces for cars turning right onto O'Connell Street.

Remember it well,and ,of course,the NEW Bridge,makes it all untenable anyway.

However I regard the current Aston Quay setup as simply madcap,and for sure worth relocating,although I would suggest that the entire concept of the Taxi-Rank is now up for reconsideration,as it is provenly unfit for purpose in the Dublin context ?

corktina

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Case closed then

noooo....i haven't ahd the last word yet....:D

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

noooo....i haven't ahd the last word yet....:D

Ok then, go on

corktina

what is it?

Spook_ie

corktina wrote: »

noooo....i haven't ahd the last word yet....:D

And so far unlikely to get it on the topic of obstruction, now if yoo would please address the question to you raised in #101 and we'll try and tease out the folly of what you are saying, seeing as you and AFAIK no one will be able to point to a specific offence of obstructing the roadway when using a taxi rank.

Similarly you won't find anything about if two articulated trucks are in a loading bay that they are obstructing the road and they would be a similar length being permited at 18.75 meters

corktina

i specifically ignored post 101 as being too daft even for this thread.

Spook_ie

corktina wrote: »

i specifically ignored post 101 as being too daft even for this thread.

Yeah sure, more like that it completely undermines your arguments about what constitutes obstruction.

Again the Taxi rank is not for parking it's for working vehicles to go about their business.

corktina

again, I was talking about the general situation where 11 vehicles park so close that pedestrians are obstructed, that they are taxis is immaterial.

Your point about cars at the traffic lights is laughable....they will move when the lights move and anyway, shouldn't that pedestrian be crossing at the lights?

As for trucks, well the same applies, they should leave a suitable gap too

Owryan

corktina wrote: »

how many times have I said that I am talking in general and how many times have i said that many locations do not have designated crossing places?

In any case it's not "a few feet", in the case you are quoting it is up to the length of 11 cars....that's something like up to 150 feet there and 150 back...

How can you be talking about crossing the road in "general " while specifically using the taxi rank as an example ? They are 2 seperate issues .

A designated and clearly marked out taxi rank is different to a row of parked cars .

Solair

who_me wrote: »

At least those ranks are in a line! Try the rank by Cork bus station.. you walk up to the group of taxi drivers standing there, and if you manage to get their attention a row kicks off over who was there first. On one occasion one driver said to take his taxi, and the others started yelling and gesturing at me for getting into the wrong taxi - as if I had a clue who was there first..

Yeah, I had that at that same rank a few months ago too and just walked off. I couldn't really be bothered dealing with that kind of stuff it was just embarrassing.

Ended up hailing a taxi on Mac Curtain Street instead.

corktina

How? if it's blocking the way to pedestrians it's just the same, and the same as if it were a pile of sand or a row of dustbins, it's an obstruction to pedestrians.

Spook_ie

corktina wrote: »

again, I was talking about the general situation where 11 vehicles park so close that pedestrians are obstructed, that they are taxis is immaterial.

Your point about cars at the traffic lights is laughable....they will move when the lights move and anyway, shouldn't that pedestrian be crossing at the lights?

As for trucks, well the same applies, they should leave a suitable gap too

But the fact that they are TAXIs on a TAXI RANK is the whole point it, they are not cars parked while the owner is shopping, they are working vehicles in a site designated for them, you're the one that keeps on that they are obstructing whilst on the rank.

As to 101 if you were 33 meters from the lights then you would be entitled to cross the road ( under whatever law that Victor pointed out ) however your way to cross would be impeded by said queue of vehicles as they would be a length of some 55-60 meters, therefore your argument doesn't hold water as they couldn't be considered as obstructing traffic flow, unless they stopped adjacent to something like a dropped kerb for the use of wheelchairs etc.

If two articulated trucks were to be in a loading bbay they would ( unless rear access was need ) park as close as they could to prevent the trailers impeding traffic flow. If you were to be crossing between a truck and it's articulated trailer it would entail climbing over the draw bar, please visualize the scenario before drawing attention to it

corktina

just tell me in what way 11 taxis bumper to bumper would differ from 11 cars bumper to bumper or 11 vans bumper to bumper in a loading bay or two artics in a loading bay, bumper to bumper.......all would impede pedestrians needing to cross, all would be obstructing the highway.

you seem to think that Taxis are somehow above the law just because they are in a marked taxi rank.