Exasperated: Landlord Advice Desperately Required for Rent Allowance Tenant

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Just be careful in how you go about this.

I have been through this process before and what I guess will happen is; as soon as you become properly assertive the tenant will dig their heels in and become very difficult to remove.

What you need to do is:

1 - Issue 14 Day notice of Arrears (giving 14 days for tenant to clear all arrears) - you will need to do proper research as to how this and the exact wording that is needed.

2 - If (when) the arrears are not clears after the 14th day you need to issue a notice of termination, giving 28 days (or what ever the required notice is in this case) to quit the accommodation.

3 - Should the tenant refuse to leave, you will have to open a dispute with the PRTB (I am assuming that you have registered the lease?)

4 - Wait (with out rent no doubt) for the PRTB shambles to have a hearing and then wait for a decision.
5 - If the tenant still does not move out then you may have to go properly legal and spend a fortune to get the tenant out.


the most disorganised, seemingly-stupid tenant suddenly becomes experts in all things regarding tenancy laws and should you make one wrong move you could find yourself having to fork out a five figure compensation fee to the free-loading tenant.

At this stage you should end all verbal communication, issue the proper 14 day notice letter and do absolutely nothing until the 14 days lapse (don't even go near the property) as any communication / action by you could be construed as harassment or failure to allow the tenant enjoyment of the property.

You will have to brace yourself for at least 6 months more with no rent ... but you will be wiser in the knowledge that you should never-ever-ever let a private accommodation to a RA / Social welfare tenant. You should only rent to someone whom you know has to work to pay for the rent. I don't care what anyone else might say, but after been bitten myself I wouldn't jump back in to the swamp to see if the next crocodile was any friendlier.

D3PO

realgirl wrote: »

I have read the thread fine thanks. I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. In relation to the tenant having a part 4 tenancy I was suggesting that the landlord can evict in this situation if the tenant has failed to comply with the obligations of the tenancy which she has by not paying rent for 5 months.

No I don't misunderstand what your saying. Your clearly misunderstanding what I am saying.

Can she evict as the case stands - YES

Can she evict if the arrears are cleared - NO


I cant be any clearer than that.

D3PO

fermatstheorem wrote: »

I wont give her an eviction notice, sorry I shouldn't have used that phrase, I meant just get rid of her. I'll just invoke the break clause of the lease and give her my tale of woe - I need to move back into the property ASAP; my relationship broke up etc etc.

Doing that if not true and can be proved by the tenant your evicting is considered an illegal eviction. The PRTB would come down on you like a ton of bricks.

Not advisable at all.

gurramok

fermatstheorem wrote: »

This maybe the case. She's definitely not in full time employment. She has three kids, one just turned 18.

With this new info about 2 more kids since I posted, I wonder how the welfare treat the family for RS. It would still be a single parent with 2 kids(instead of 3 kids) which is a slight reduction in rent entitlement but the 18yr old adult child throws a spanner in the works. Its hard to calculate but there is a definite reduction in RS there somewhere.

fermatstheorem

Marcusm wrote: »

I'm surprised that no one has picked up on your words such as "stalking", "scare her" and "scare the sh1t out of her".

Seriously, I have no idea whether you truly means those literally but I would worry about the guards knocking on my door to discuss harassment if the dots were ever joined up by the tenant.

I've never intimidated or threatened anyone in my life. By nature I'm someone of a very sunny and trusting disposition. However I spent the bank holiday weekend worrying and being extremely stressed about this when she promised me she would get back to me on Friday.

She's like a delinquent child and I really feel she's taking me for a ride. So I really need her to understand that I am serious. She has this scary boyfriend and I'm not going to allow her intimate me. I'm used to working in a professional environment where people do what they say they will do and realise I've been a bit of an ejit. So now I'm shaping an approach in language or actions that she will understand.

wolfpawnat

It's cows like this that make LL's frightened to take RA tenants. It really annoys me, the only grace I have is sterling references. When I was waiting for the CWO to sort one or two things (meaning a months rent was slightly delayed) I asked for them to write something for my LL so that they would have proof I was not acting the maggot so to speak. My LL accepted it as it was dated and showed I was not taking anyone for a ride. Surely if she is seeing a CWO regarding the matter, even a handwritten one with the stamp would prove she is trying to do something. It sounds to me like she doesn't want to even bother heading down. It's not like it is the hardest thing she'll ever do.

fermatstheorem

djimi wrote: »

Just be careful of this. I have heard of landlords getting stung when they were checked up on to see if the reason behind their eviction notice was genuine; I dont know how often if would happen, but just bear it in mind.

Your tenant is right also; regardless of the circumstances you have no legal right to show up at the property unannounced at 11pm at night. I understand your frustration, especially if you are getting no response from her, but you need to be smart about how you go about things, and dont put yourself in a position where you could be seen to be in the wrong in any way should it go to a PRTB hearing. Waiting outside the house and calling in late at night could well be seen as harrassment.

Thanks appreciate the warning. I was trying to be proactive. She said her phone wasn't working, hence why she hasn't contacted me well she got her friend to text me.

I didn't go into the house just rang the doorbell and spoke to her friend on the doorstep, although her friend isn't even supposed to be living there so in a way I didn't speak to my tenant it was her friend.

fermatstheorem

wolfpawnat wrote: »

It's cows like this that make LL's frightened to take RA tenants. It really annoys me, the only grace I have is sterling references. When I was waiting for the CWO to sort one or two things (meaning a months rent was slightly delayed) I asked for them to write something for my LL so that they would have proof I was not acting the maggot so to speak. My LL accepted it as it was dated and showed I was not taking anyone for a ride. Surely if she is seeing a CWO regarding the matter, even a handwritten one with the stamp would prove she is trying to do something. It sounds to me like she doesn't want to even bother heading down. It's not like it is the hardest thing she'll ever do.

Thanks for sharing that. People had warned me as to taking on RA but I met her checked out her previous house and thought people are just being prejudice. My estimation was she was a single mother doing her best to look after her kids. I gave her my house in perfect condition and have been very good to her and reasonable when there were delays originally with the HSE. She's also made me feel like a fool. I'm the one under financial pressure working away while she lives in my house for free.

Having said that I'm sure there are good RA people but it's hard to take the risk as most aren't as conscientious as you.

fermatstheorem

D3PO wrote: »

Doing that if not true and can be proved by the tenant your evicting is considered an illegal eviction. The PRTB would come down on you like a ton of bricks.

Not advisable at all.

That might be the case but I'll consider moving into the house temporarily to get rid of her.

I'm also going to give her the 14 days arrears notice this evening and follow that process.

Grandpa Hassan

D3PO wrote: »

Doing that if not true and can be proved by the tenant your evicting is considered an illegal eviction. The PRTB would come down on you like a ton of bricks.

Not advisable at all.

But given the amount of time that might go by trying to evict a tenant, it is probably the better course of action to enact that break clause in the part 4 tenancy and actually move back in for a few months. It would be a much cleaner way of getting back control of the property

Ray Palmer

gurramok wrote: »

This caught my eye Are you 100% sure about this?
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

Yes click on the part about a dependent child and it goes up to 22 if in full time education.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/claiming_a_social_welfare_payment/claiming_and_increase_in_your_payment_for_a_child_dependant.html

D3PO

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

But given the amount of time that might go by trying to evict a tenant, it is probably the better course of action to enact that break clause in the part 4 tenancy and actually move back in for a few months. It would be a much cleaner way of getting back control of the property

true, you looking at the 5 months of arrears plus the arrears from the notice period, plus 6 months of loss of rental as you move back in. So over a years lost rent.

Clean it may be, but not sure if its the most efficient. Much better to give notice of arrears, then eviction notice and hope the tenant just moves out, count your losses, chalk it down to experience and move forward.

Pretty sure rental losses can be carried forward, at least this lost rent can be written off future tax bills.

the world wonders

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

But given the amount of time that might go by trying to evict a tenant, it is probably the better course of action to enact that break clause in the part 4 tenancy and actually move back in for a few months. It would be a much cleaner way of getting back control of the property

If they wouldn't move out for the rent arrears eviction process, what makes you think they'd move out for the Part 4 termination process?

the_syco

fermatstheorem wrote: »

I have a rent allowance tenant who is 5 months behind in her rent.

Five months? She's having a laugh, and probably see's yu as a soft touch. Evict her.

fermatstheorem wrote: »

I have a break clause in the lease so my intention was get her up to date with the rent and then break the lease.

YOU WILL NEVER GET THE MONEY SHE OWES BACK, and you're a fool if you think you will. Where do you think she'll get the 5 months rent back? She'll have spent it all already.

fermatstheorem wrote: »

This lady who answered the door said she was the baby sitter and that my tenant was in the hospital as her nan was sick. So it's a bit of a joke. Her kid says she's at the shops; 'the baby sitter' says she's in the hospital.

You honestly expect the mother to tell the kid that her nan is in the hospital?

D3PO wrote: »

Clean it may be, but not sure if its the most efficient. Much better to give notice of arrears, then eviction notice and hope the tenant just moves out, count your losses, chalk it down to experience and move forward.

Pretty sure rental losses can be carried forward, at least this lost rent can be written off future tax bills.

fermatstheorem, you came here looking for advice, and I'd advise you to take the advice.

Pawwed Rig

the_syco wrote: »

YOU WILL NEVER GET THE MONEY SHE OWES BACK, and you're a fool if you think you will. Where do you think she'll get the 5 months rent back? She'll have spent it all already.

This.^^^

You need to end this tenancy asap. You will not see this money. Tenant doesn't care as there are no implications for her. HSE do not care either. You can take a PRTB case to recover the rent but she will just say she has no money so even if you win the case and are deemed not to have illegally evicted her (not a guarantee) you will be very unlikely to see even a small percentage of this money. You need to give the 14 days notice of arrears TODAY before this gets worse.

BostonB

wolfpawnat wrote: »

It's cows like this that make LL's frightened to take RA tenants. It really annoys me, the only grace I have is sterling references. When I was waiting for the CWO to sort one or two things (meaning a months rent was slightly delayed) I asked for them to write something for my LL so that they would have proof I was not acting the maggot so to speak. My LL accepted it as it was dated and showed I was not taking anyone for a ride. Surely if she is seeing a CWO regarding the matter, even a handwritten one with the stamp would prove she is trying to do something. It sounds to me like she doesn't want to even bother heading down. It's not like it is the hardest thing she'll ever do.

Its not your fault but, theres something deeply flawed in a system that results in a private LL giving the govt an interest free loan, of the rent, while the RA system gets its act together. Thats just nuts.

The LL shouldn't accept this, they should get the full rent of the tenant. The issue with the delay in RA is between the Tenant and RA. Tenant should cover the shortfall. Its got nothing to do with the LL. Starting a tenancy in arrears is just all wrong.

That said, sometimes you've got to give people a break. Karma an all that. But its increased risk for the LL. References are easily forged, some people are past masters of it. I feel for the genuine Tenants /LL caught in the middle of this farcical system.

fermatstheorem

the_syco wrote: »

Five months? She's having a laugh, and probably see's yu as a soft touch. Evict her.

Agree hence this thread...

the_syco wrote: »

YOU WILL NEVER GET THE MONEY SHE OWES BACK, and you're a fool if you think you will. Where do you think she'll get the 5 months rent back? She'll have spent it all already.

The cheques haven't been issued so the money hasn't been spent.

the_syco wrote: »

You honestly expect the mother to tell the kid that her nan is in the hospital?

He's 14, I'm sure he's doesn't think his mother is shopping when in fact his nan is in the hospital.


fermatstheorem, you came here looking for advice, and I'd advise you to take the advice.[/QUOTE]

Yes and I'll be actioning accordingly

fermatstheorem

the_syco wrote: »

Five months? She's having a laugh, and probably see's yu as a soft touch. Evict her.


YOU WILL NEVER GET THE MONEY SHE OWES BACK, and you're a fool if you think you will. Where do you think she'll get the 5 months rent back? She'll have spent it all already.


You honestly expect the mother to tell the kid that her nan is in the hospital?


fermatstheorem, you came here looking for advice, and I'd advise you to take the advice.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

This.^^^

You need to end this tenancy asap. You will not see this money. Tenant doesn't care as there are no implications for her. HSE do not care either. You can take a PRTB case to recover the rent but she will just say she has no money so even if you win the case and are deemed not to have illegally evicted her (not a guarantee) you will be very unlikely to see even a small percentage of this money. You need to give the 14 days notice of arrears TODAY before this gets worse.

That's my plan...

belcampprisoner

maybe shes getting the rent and spending it in spain or do you get it directly


first contact Department of Social Protection's representative (formerly known as the Community Welfare Officer) at your local health cent to see if they are still getting it


I read somewhere that rent allowance has been cut

JustAThought

sounds like this Social welfare abuser is min ululating you and the system.

If she has been in Spain she is probably getting a friend to sign in illegally for her - if caught she will be cut off and asked to back pay the money.

Take as Many screen grabs of her Facebook account - with the dates on it - as you can - particularly those with her pics in situ in it. Now you have some
Collateral to use against her that will cost her if you report her. And her friend who
Is signing on for her - assuming. She's not on disability. She is " entitled" to two weeks Holliday which she has to declare - otherwise if she is on job seekers allowance or benefit ( as opposed to single mothers) she she be in the country Looking for work.


If she has been out for months who has been looking after the Children ? Have they been attending school - social workers might like to know.

She has spent the money and dosn't give a f*. The best way you can get rid of a tenant that's unwanted is to say that you or a relative re going to Move b k into the house.suggest you go that road.

Suggest you ring the gas,phone & LX to check what kind of debts she's run up - are the bills in her name?

Look into privatising the debt - google debt collectors & make a few inquiries - and them tell her. She will have a lot more fear and " respect" of private debt collector coming after her than the govt.
Pathetically enough.

You can be sure a Sanger like this will have free Legal aid hanging off her to help her - get yourself an appointment in a FLAc that has someone that will specialise in letrings - ring FLAc & ask them - it's free - no point letting the lying cheat have a legal advantage there .

She won't give a f* about the courts or system but might care about being caught cheating the social welfare & being cut off - and not reinstated - or not having the handout train there for her to continue leeching off.welfare
Might also be interested in her having a live in boyfriend - maybe a friendly neighbour will corroborate - that's how we got rid of the next door neighbour freeloading welfare cheat.

But. You don't want her squatting in your house. Where does she sign on - does the place have CCTv in it - If it does and you know that & someone is signing on for her all signings are time stamped & this can be correlated to the CCTV - that's how they get people. Remind her of the girl in Cork that had to pay back e45,000 last week to avoid an immediate
Jail sentence for welfare cheating & signing on while living abroad. Guards were involved in that one.

I'd suggest your best bet is the FLAC centres, FB & neighbour corroboration welfare cheating evidence, her knowing you have some cards & being worried enough to care . Tell her she
Can beg off the Vincent de Paul for the bills/rent etc but to get it .

God help you it's a nightmare.

Eric Cartman

JustAThought wrote: »

sounds like this Social welfare abuser is min ululating you and the system.

If she has been in Spain she is probably getting a friend to sign in illegally for her - if caught she will be cut off and asked to back pay the money.

Take as Many screen grabs of her Facebook account - with the dates on it - as you can - particularly those with her pics in situ in it. Now you have some
Collateral to use against her that will cost her if you report her. And her friend who
Is signing on for her - assuming. She's not on disability. She is " entitled" to two weeks Holliday which she has to declare - otherwise if she is on job seekers allowance or benefit ( as opposed to single mothers) she she be in the country Looking for work.

+1 to all of this. Give her her notice, do it by the book, if you have no contact or info about her leaving very sharply after that then report her to the social welfare . Take the screenshots and give them to the social welfare office.

Being a social welfare fraudster is actually the scummiest thing a person can do, this woman has the audacity to be off in spain on holidays on the back of tax payers money , you're out of pocket as is every other working person in this country. I would suggest getting rid of her as soon as possible, reporting her to the social welfare office no matter the outcome, and try to get her 'friends' name and the babysitters name (if they are 2 different people) , chances are if they have the time to be in her house they are scamming some sort of welfare also.

Hopefully you get her out and leave her unable to claim anything ever again.

fermatstheorem

JustAThought wrote: »

sounds like this Social welfare abuser is min ululating you and the system.

If she has been in Spain she is probably getting a friend to sign in illegally for her - if caught she will be cut off and asked to back pay the money.

Take as Many screen grabs of her Facebook account - with the dates on it - as you can - particularly those with her pics in situ in it. Now you have some
Collateral to use against her that will cost her if you report her. And her friend who
Is signing on for her - assuming. She's not on disability. She is " entitled" to two weeks Holliday which she has to declare - otherwise if she is on job seekers allowance or benefit ( as opposed to single mothers) she she be in the country Looking for work.


If she has been out for months who has been looking after the Children ? Have they been attending school - social workers might like to know.

She has spent the money and dosn't give a f*. The best way you can get rid of a tenant that's unwanted is to say that you or a relative re going to Move b k into the house.suggest you go that road.

Suggest you ring the gas,phone & LX to check what kind of debts she's run up - are the bills in her name?

Look into privatising the debt - google debt collectors & make a few inquiries - and them tell her. She will have a lot more fear and " respect" of private debt collector coming after her than the govt.
Pathetically enough.

You can be sure a Sanger like this will have free Legal aid hanging off her to help her - get yourself an appointment in a FLAc that has someone that will specialise in letrings - ring FLAc & ask them - it's free - no point letting the lying cheat have a legal advantage there .

She won't give a f* about the courts or system but might care about being caught cheating the social welfare & being cut off - and not reinstated - or not having the handout train there for her to continue leeching off.welfare
Might also be interested in her having a live in boyfriend - maybe a friendly neighbour will corroborate - that's how we got rid of the next door neighbour freeloading welfare cheat.

But. You don't want her squatting in your house. Where does she sign on - does the place have CCTv in it - If it does and you know that & someone is signing on for her all signings are time stamped & this can be correlated to the CCTV - that's how they get people. Remind her of the girl in Cork that had to pay back e45,000 last week to avoid an immediate
Jail sentence for welfare cheating & signing on while living abroad. Guards were involved in that one.

I'd suggest your best bet is the FLAC centres, FB & neighbour corroboration welfare cheating evidence, her knowing you have some cards & being worried enough to care . Tell her she
Can beg off the Vincent de Paul for the bills/rent etc but to get it .

God help you it's a nightmare.

Thanks for all the info. She's definitely on all the single mother benefits. I'm going to follow up on all you mentioned here.

But yeah I feel like such a fool. I'm working day and night like most people here and I'm paying for her while she swans arounnd.

She drives a nicer car than me. One of the first times I met her she was late because she was at 'boot camp'. I couldn't believe it. The rest of us are working in the middle of the day but she gets to exercise. I took an annual leave day to meet her!

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Any update OP, how did you get on with the arrears notice?

fermatstheorem

Just to give you an update.

I went around to the house this evening at 9:15. I had two letters prepared. One is a standard arrears letter but with no threat of termination and included the rent book. The second is the official 14 day arrears notice.

I decided I wanted to hear her story before I give her the official 14 day arrears notice.

Her kid answered the door and said she was at the shops. I asked when she would be back and he said she would be back in 30 minutes. Her car wasn't there. So I went down to a local coffee shop just to kill the time. She then texted me, this is the first time since last Thursday.

She said she went down to the office today and they promised they'd send the cheques and that as soon as she receives them she;ll lodge them for me.

I texted back, I was very nice and polite and said I was just up at the house and could pop up to her as I'm in the coffee shop down the road. I told her it would be good for us to catch up.

She texted back and said she was out of the house at the moment and would I mind if we catch up tomorrow and if that was ok.

I texted back to say that was ok how about 8pm tomorrow evening.

I got no response, I was so annoyed.

So I went up to the house at about 10:15. Another kid answered the door, I'm even confused how many kids she has. He said she was down the shops. I told him I would wait. So I waited for about 15 minutes but then decided to just post letter number 1 and leave.

She then texted me, obviously she knew I left, saying she will see me tomorrow when she knows more and that she's very very sorry about everything and will hopefully have it all sorted very soon.....

So it's 11:15pm... I've decided to leave it for the night. I'm going to see what happens to tomorrow. I'm basically going to try and understand what is going on but if it's not sorted by Friday I will issue her with the 14 day arrears notice.

Last summer she didn't pay for 2 months and then she paid 2 rents at once. So she has come up trumps before.

I know for a fact that no cheques were issued as of the middle of April.

Anyways I'll keep you updated on how it progresses.

This is exhausting but thanks for the help .....

BostonB

You are just wasting your own time here. You issue the arrears notice, end of. You do it the day the rent is late. Every month if needs be. If you can't do that, (and it seems you can't) pay an agent to do it for you.

fermatstheorem

BostonB wrote: »

You are just wasting your own time here. You issue the arrears notice, end of. You do it the day the rent is late. Every month if needs be. If you can't do that, (and it seems you can't) pay an agent to do it for you.

Fair enough, you're probably right, I'll do it by Friday if I have to.

I feel I've increased the intensity of my scrutiny and I want to see the reaction. I'm going to give it until Friday.

JustAThought

fermatstheorem wrote: »

Fair enough, you're probably right, I'll do it by Friday if I have to.

I feel I've increased the intensity of my scrutiny and I want to see the reaction. I'm going to give it until Friday.

Y - but remember its now May - another month of paying no rent for her. Do you have in writing that she will pay etc - or if not go to her local SW office that deal with rent allowance & tell them in writing that you signed a the forms etc to allow her to be facilitated & claim rent allowance & yet she has not paid in 6/7 months.Jesus Christ.as you have facilutated her & co-operated with their paperwork needs you could ask if they are aware that this rent allowance has not been paid as rent for X period & you are advising them in writing, etc - can they clarify the situation, etc.

It might say in the firms details from her that could be helpful to you if you have a copy... You could also report her bout camping midday , concerns about other propel living unauthorised by you in the house - subletting/additional income for her as we as your concerns on expenditure on & holidays I n Spain. Rent allowance is based on the presumption that it is used for that purpose. It is also based on available income & need...clearly if she be unavailable for work/interviews, and can bring her family to Spain for weeks or pay for babysitters while she is gone they might Ne interested in knowing so that they can have all the information to evaluate her claim.

She will also be liable to pay it back if they have overpaid her based on her declaration. The possible subletting/unauthorised residents should ring bells too.

cHECK your utility and phone/UZpS phone bills :0

BostonB

The only thing that matters is money in your account. Everything else is just babble.

SW will not deal with a LL. Reporting the tenant is a last, last resort. If they cut that off, you'll never get paid.

the_syco

fermatstheorem wrote: »

The cheques haven't been issued so the money hasn't been spent.

Hrm. I sense a communications breakdown, so I'll put this very simply;

THE CHEQUES DON'T F**KING EXIST.

When something doesn't exist, it also means that no-one will get it. If the tenant applies for rent allowance, and gets it, it'll be from that day froward. She won't get any back rent, it's not how the system works. Also, babysitters cost money, so I'm guessing she's working off the books, and thus can pay for a babysitter, and has put the money that she should be giving to you for rent towards a holiday in the sun.

So, a bit of warning; she knows the system, and SHALL SCREW YOU OUT OF YOUR OWN MONEY and get back into your house for free if you try to evict her saying that you're moving back in.

fermatstheorem wrote: »

The second is the official 14 day arrears notice.

A letter? Who cares? Seriously? It'll be her word against yours, and you'll lose. The only way that she gets the letter is by registered post, so that you get a nice signature stating that she got it.

Your word doesn't mean anything in court, but her signature does.

fermatstheorem wrote: »

She said she went down to the office today and they promised they'd send the cheques and that as soon as she receives them she;ll lodge them for me.

Ah, sorry. That shows that either this time she is genuine, unlike every other time, or that she's taking you for a fool again.

=-=

TLDR; Her RA has stopped, and even if she it gets again, the social won't pay the 5 months rent that she owes. Why would they? For all they know she could have been working for those 5 months, and never needed the RA.

You'll be writing off 5 months rent this time, and probably next time as well.

Sorry about being harsh, but by jaysus, she's taking you for a fool and you're letting her get away with it.

desaparecidos

How can people who pay no rent have so much rights? Crazy.