Storage heaters - do both electrical supplies need to be on?

QuiteInterestin

Hi, living in an apartment with storage heaters. My main heater has been partially broken since I moved in but was finally fully fixed last week. The type I have is Creda Eco Response 500 http://www.credaheating.co.uk/product_details/sh7/index.htm ,
http://www.credaheating.co.uk/assets/kb/operating_instructions/0/Eco-Response_Operating_Instructions_Issue_2.pdf

It is made up of heat bricks and a panel heater. As usual, it stores heat at night and releases it during the day, however the heat it releases in the morning/afternoon comes from that built up in the bricks during the night and as this runs out in the evening, the panel heater kicks in to maintain the set temperature for the rest of the evening until midnight when it starts heating up the bricks again. This requires 2 switches to be turned on, the day switch and night switch. The panel heater part was broken for the last while, so until now I've only been using the night part, which works ok, a bit cool in the evening but I had another heater I could turn on if needed. Now that the heater is working correctly, I was wondering if anyone knows is it ok to use the night part only, without having the day switch turned on. The instructions state that for it to work correctly, both electric supplies must be turned on, but while I don't mind heat stored up at night being released during the day while I'm not there, I think it using the day supply as well is a bit much. Anyone got any ideas on this? Would it damage the heater by only having one switch on or only turning on both switches in the evening only? Cost wise would it make much difference, should I just leave both switches on? Also, the amount of heat it takes in at night is determined (I think) by what heat settings I have set up on the heater. However the only way to know/change this is to turn on the heater day switch. Does anyone know will it still heat up at the set temperature at night if the day switch isn't on to 'tell it'?

Hope someone on here has the answer, lived in plenty of places with storage heaters in the past but never came across one like this before. Hoping to be able to turn of the heating soon enough for the summer, but would like to know that I had heating sorted before agreeing to stay here for the winter. Thanks!

Dotsie~tmp

I think maybe you might be mixed up on the naming of things.

The part with the bricks is the "night" storage heater. Which actually comes on in the very early morning mostly. It charges the bricks a bit like batteries with heat which gradually discharge over the day diminishing all the while. The electrical supply is automatically disconnected at 8am no matter what the switch is set to.

The part with the "element", the "panel heater", the "day heater" is the part you usually use at night! (Confusing i know) from ~5pm to midnight to top-up the waning bricks. Its called the day heater because the supply to it is live during the daylight hours, its actually a standard 24/7 circuit. The night storage supply actually shuts off from 8am to 11pm (approx).

Generally you want the night storage bricks to supply most of the heat as its cheaper. The the more expensive panel heater tops up till bed. Also the bricks take 24 hours to respond to a change in settings so are crappy in variable pre and post summer weather and useless if the summer turns suddenly chilly. So best to just kill the "night" bricks switch from may to oct generally and rely on the panel.




PS. The day supply panel heater will have a thermotat setting seperate from the bricks heater settings. Its important to set this to a comfy temp as too high and it will swamp you with heat all day and too low it wont kick in to top up before bedtime.

Remember keep night bricks switch on 24/7 from october to may.
Keep day switch on during the day AS REQUIRED and off at night unless a timer is built in.

mikehammer67

there's an 'led temperature control' for the off-peak

so i'm thinking you may need both wall switches on to operate the controls properly



afaik some of the new storage heaters also use a fan to release the stored heat during the day but i don't think this model does

QuiteInterestin

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

I think maybe you might be mixed up on the naming of things.

Think I was, sorry about that, thanks for explaining it.

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

Remember keep night bricks switch on 24/7 from october to may.Keep day switch on during the day AS REQUIRED and off at night unless a timer is built in.

Thanks, that's what I'm doing at the moment, I'm just wondering is it ok to be turning on and off the 'day' switch, when according to the instructions say to keep both on at all times. I think there is a setting built in that means the panel heater will only work for about 2 hours after the heat bricks have begun to heat up at midnight.

mikehammer67 wrote: »

there's an 'led temperature control' for the off-peak

so i'm thinking you may need both wall switches on to operate the controls properly

afaik some of the new storage heaters also use a fan to release the stored heat during the day but i don't think this model does

Ya, the only way for me to operate the controls is for the day 24/7 supply to be on so I'm wondering if its not on, does this effect how much the heat bricks heat up at night.

mikehammer67

not sure but i would probably leave the wall switches on and turn the comfort setting(panel heater) down to frost setting

but i'm not familiar with the heater


you can always try it off and see

QuiteInterestin

mikehammer67 wrote: »

not sure but i would probably leave the wall switches on and turn the comfort setting(panel heater) down to frost setting

but i'm not familiar with the heater


you can always try it off and see

Thanks, ya I've had the panel 'day' part off altogether for most of the last few weeks as it wasn't working anyways. It still heats up at night even when the day supply is off, just the control panel doesn't work to adjust the settings. What made me think I should leave off the 'day' switch was a comment an electrician made when he came to try and fix the broken storage heater. I had the other storage heater in the hallway on, with both switches on as per the instructions and he commented that it would be using a lot of electricity that way and my next ESB bill would be big. I presume he meant to leave the 'day' switch off, I didn't question him on it at the time, wish I had now.

mikehammer67

no i'd say he has it wrong
it appears you should leave both on for correct operation of heater

QuiteInterestin

From what I can remember I think he said to leave the night supply on only and not bother with the day part. I should have asked him more about it, but he was recommending to the landlord that the main storage heater (the broken one) be replaced, so I wasn't too worried about how to set them up as I thought I'd be getting a new one for the sitting room and I wouldn't be using the hallway one (instead she got different electricians she knew, I'd to wait another 4 weeks for them to come, then they couldn't fix it, then someone from Creda had to come (I think), they managed to fix the heat blocks part but they had to order in a new panel etc.) so it ended up taking about 10 weeks.

I have access to the ESB meter so I must try comparing the units used by heating it up at night only, compared to having both supplies on with the panel heater supplementing the bricks as the heat in the bricks runs out. Think I'd have to move out for the day though to get it right

Dotsie~tmp

QuiteInterestin wrote: »

From what I can remember I think he said. o leave the night supply on only and not bother with the day part. I should have asked him more about it, but he was recommending to the landlord that the main storage heater (the broken one) be replaced, so I wasn't too worried about how to set them up as I thought I'd be getting a new one for the sitting room and I wouldn't be using the hallway one (instead she got different electricians she knew, I'd to wait another 4 weeks for them to come, then they couldn't fix it, then someone from Creda had to come (I think), they managed to fix the heat blocks part but they had to order in a new panel etc.) so it ended up taking about 10 weeks.

I have access to the ESB meter so I must try comparing the units used by heating it up at night only, compared to having both supplies on with the panel heater supplementing the bricks as the heat in the bricks runs out. Think I'd have to move out for the day though to get it right

You apeear to have a more advanced version of the standard combi heaters. The electronic control of night heater requires the daytime supply to power its electronics maybe. Are there programming options for times and seasons? These often come as part of a smart system. Tbh i hate all storage heating.

QuiteInterestin

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

You apeear to have a more advanced version of the standard combi heaters. The electronic control of night heater requires the daytime supply to power its electronics maybe. Are there programming options for times and seasons? These often come as part of a smart system. Tbh i hate all storage heating.

Maybe they're more advanced but give me the combi heaters anyday! There are 2 main settings, background and 'comfort' (both on a scale of 1/10 1 being frost protection, 10 being max). My understanding of it is 'comfort' is the heat you want it at (recommended to be about 5) Background setting determines how much it heats up at night and so ensures that the comfort setting is achieved during the morning and afternoons. As the heat runs out of the bricks, the panel heater kicks in to supplement the bricks to maintain the comfort setting in the evening. You can turn down the comfort setting when you're not there but its recommended to stay within 2 marks of your 'comfort' setting i.e. 5 down to 3. Very confusing My main issue with it is I don't want the panel heater supplementing the heat bricks in the evening when I'm not there as I think its a waste, but according to the instructions I should have both supplies on at all times.

Dotsie~tmp

QuiteInterestin wrote: »

Maybe they're more advanced but give me the combi heaters anyday! There are 2 main settings, background and 'comfort' (both on a scale of 1/10 1 being frost protection, 10 being max). My understanding of it is 'comfort' is the heat you want it at (recommended to be about 5) Background setting determines how much it heats up at night and so ensures that the comfort setting is achieved during the morning and afternoons. As the heat runs out of the bricks, the panel heater kicks in to supplement the bricks to maintain the comfort setting in the evening. You can turn down the comfort setting when you're not there but its recommended to stay within 2 marks of your 'comfort' setting i.e. 5 down to 3. Very confusing My main issue with it is I don't want the panel heater supplementing the heat bricks in the evening when I'm not there as I think its a waste, but according to the instructions I should have both supplies on at all times.

Hence why a timer is often present on the panel part. Or a centralised clock on the smart systems.

Edit: yep here is the pdf for the 4 zone timer controller that should have been installer with such a system. Otherwise bog standard heaters were more apt.

http://www.credaheating.co.uk/assets/kb/operating_instructions/0/PWE4ZC_Instructions_Issue_2.pdf

mikehammer67

QuiteInterestin wrote: »

Maybe they're more advanced but give me the combi heaters anyday! There are 2 main settings, background and 'comfort' (both on a scale of 1/10 1 being frost protection, 10 being max). My understanding of it is 'comfort' is the heat you want it at (recommended to be about 5) Background setting determines how much it heats up at night and so ensures that the comfort setting is achieved during the morning and afternoons. As the heat runs out of the bricks, the panel heater kicks in to supplement the bricks to maintain the comfort setting in the evening. You can turn down the comfort setting when you're not there but its recommended to stay within 2 marks of your 'comfort' setting i.e. 5 down to 3. Very confusing My main issue with it is I don't want the panel heater supplementing the heat bricks in the evening when I'm not there as I think its a waste, but according to the instructions I should have both supplies on at all times.

just turn the comfort down to frost

you can easily check its not heating by leaving the overnite at frost

as dotsie said you would prob be better with basic combis if the central controller isn't fitted

Dotsie~tmp

mikehammer67 wrote: »

just turn the comfort down to frost

you can easily check its not heating by leaving the overnite at frost

as dotsie said you would prob be better with basic combis if the central controller isn't fitted

It might be possible to retro fit the controller. Im not sure how easy as its a proprietary system I havent used.

mikehammer67

there's a 230v pilot wire for each zone
and isolation for the pilot wire at each heater

so it wouldn't be practical to retrofit domestic

it could be a nice setup for commercial where there's a lot of heaters in each zone

QuiteInterestin

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

Hence why a timer is often present on the panel part. Or a centralised clock on the smart systems.

Edit: yep here is the pdf for the 4 zone timer controller that should have been installer with such a system. Otherwise bog standard heaters were more apt.

http://www.credaheating.co.uk/assets/kb/operating_instructions/0/PWE4ZC_Instructions_Issue_2.pdf

Thanks, there is a timer installed, its this one http://waterheatertimer.org/pdf/Flash_2S_Programmer_Instructions_Issue_1.pdf however all it does is let you change the heat settings from comfort to reduced (i.e. it reduces the heat by 2 bars) at specified times, which I can do myself easily enough. I can see how they would be useful in offices etc with a large no. of heaters, but they're not much use in an apartment.

mikehammer67 wrote: »

just turn the comfort down to frost

you can easily check its not heating by leaving the overnite at frost

as dotsie said you would prob be better with basic combis if the central controller isn't fitted

Thanks, I thought that the background and comfort had to be kept at a similar setting but from reading through the instructions again it doesn't mention this. It seems to recommend starting with them the same and adjusting each accordingly after this. Will try turning down the comfort to frost protection and leaving the background as it is to see if this will stop the panel heater heating up during the day/evening when I'm not there. Thanks again for all the advice.