Aer Lingus Cadetship 2013

Roblestone

Paxi_R6 wrote: »

Well that could not be anymore wrong in my opinion, Some cadets have couple hours under their belt others may have a PPL and some folks only have one or two hours.

It's not strange! far from it, EI do it quiet often with cadet pilots. People seem to forget nothing is going to come into you're advantage in all honesty, Remember they're looking for the right person to fit the job! Either fit the script or don't.

Surely having the 'get up and go' attitude to start training stands for something. At least it shows an interest in becoming a pilot rather than someone who applies for every job that is advertised. Personally I hope my hours, albeit only 7, stand to me.

Talking to a few guys from my club I have heard some unsettling news regarding the cadetship its only 3rd hand info at the minute so won't bother posting here. All I say is I hope it's not true

Paxi_R6

Might as well mention it, If it has any seriousness it should probably be said! If its Regarding the number of cadets they plan to take? I believe it's 10 this time..

Shamrock231

Shamrock231 wrote: »

I know, that's why I want to see if others have gotten the mail... It's highly unlikely that only one boardsie got to the next stage.

On a seperate note though for those interested, apparently the aim is only for 10 cadets this time, though that may go up, maybe even to 12, if they have an exceptional cadidate, so the odds are decreased.

Paxi_R6 wrote: »

Might as well mention it, If it has any seriousness it should probably be said! If its Regarding the number of cadets they plan to take? I believe it's 10 this time..

Yeh, I mentioned that earlier, but fear not, if you're super duper they may consider adding an extra place or two. :pac:

On a more serious note though, I would like to know any info you have, even if it's 3rd hand, at least then I can decide for myself whether or not it's likely true.

Roblestone

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Yeh, I mentioned that earlier, but fear not, if you're super duper they may consider adding an extra place or two. :pac:

On a more serious note though, I would like to know any info you have, even if it's 3rd hand, at least then I can decide for myself whether or not it's likely true.

Ill tell you what I heard but I'm warning you should take it with a pinch of salt as I said its 3rd hand info. Basically I heard that they are aiming to take on PPL holders as it was apparent from the last bunch they sent over that the guys and girls that had a PPL were superior and easier to train throughout the whole training course than those who did not. Makes sense from an airlines point of view but it's sh1tty news for most of us if it is true. Again, wait until this is confirmed and please don't jump down my throat I'm only passing on info I have heard.

Is the number of positions from a reliable source?

Shamrock231

Roblestone wrote: »

Ill tell you what I heard but I'm warning you should take it with a pinch of salt as I said its 3rd hand info. Basically I heard that they are aiming to take on PPL holders as it was apparent from the last bunch they sent over that the guys and girls that had a PPL were superior and easier to train throughout the whole training course than those who did not. Makes sense from an airlines point of view but it's sh1tty news for most of us if it is true. Again, wait until this is confirmed and please don't jump down my throat I'm only passing on info I have heard.

Is the number of positions from a reliable source?

It's from a Captain who's involved in training of some sort, which he got off HR, so I'd assume reliable enough.

I think I should say though that he didn't make it seem like I wasn't in with a chance and I've only logged one flying lesson, so I think your friends might have been looking a bit too deeply into the phone call thing, or he was sparing my feelings...

Roblestone

Shamrock231 wrote: »

It's from a Captain who's involved in training of some sort, which he got off HR, so I'd assume reliable enough.

I think I should say though that he didn't make it seem like I wasn't in with a chance and I've only logged one flying lesson, so I think your friends might have been looking a bit too deeply into the phone call thing, or he was sparing my feelings...

I hope you are right, but he heard it from an FO in Aer Lingus not just presuming it from the phone call.

P.S pilots don't spare your feelings

LeftBase

Roblestone wrote: »

Ill tell you what I heard but I'm warning you should take it with a pinch of salt as I said its 3rd hand info. Basically I heard that they are aiming to take on PPL holders as it was apparent from the last bunch they sent over that the guys and girls that had a PPL were superior and easier to train throughout the whole training course than those who did not. Makes sense from an airlines point of view but it's sh1tty news for most of us if it is true. Again, wait until this is confirmed and please don't jump down my throat I'm only passing on info I have heard.

Is the number of positions from a reliable source?

I dont mean this in a bad way but that's a little bit of a no brainer. If you have a PPL of course you will be easier to train...because you dont really have to be trained too much...you can fly a plane to a high enough standard to pass an Authority Flight test and that makes EI Training and Standards life a fair bit easier. Of course someone with 100+ hours on the PPL will pick up bad habits that need to be trained out but that happens in airlines too. Plenty of pilots get a stern but kind word over little things during recurrent training.

not.socrates

LeftBase wrote: »

I dont mean this in a bad way but that's a little bit of a no brainer. If you have a PPL of course you will be easier to train...because you dont really have to be trained too much...

Not true. It means you have a PPL. There is a lot more training to follow and just because a person has a PPL or whatever they could be a slower learner than say, a zero time never even saw an airplane cadet. Airline pilots in simulator are all individuals, some easier to train than others also.

Even a pilot in Aer Lingus is unlikely to know the kind of questions asked here. The people "in the know" are unlikely to say anything that becomes rumour because this stuff changes on a daily basis and if it doesn't happen then they would look bad within the company for not having accurate information. Only believe when it's in print, but that can change also.

Being around since 1936 Aer Lingus has tried many different ways to recruit pilots. In the late 1980's they hired 20 or so Irish PPL holders (or foreign license if acceptable) and Aer Lingus gave the the PPL flight test in a Cessna 152 aerobat, EI-BJM which had the call sign "Shamrock One". People who passed this stage were trained in the cadet program at the time, at the PPL syllabus stage and then onwards. A bit of nostaglia.

LeftBase

not.socrates wrote: »

Not true. It means you have a PPL. There is a lot more training to follow and just because a person has a PPL or whatever they could be a slower learner than say, a zero time never even saw an airplane cadet. Airline pilots in simulator are all individuals, some easier to train than others also.

When you sit down and think about it a lot of the stuff you will learn in pilot training you learn at PPL. Even if it's a light twin or an A320 the principles stay pretty much the same. Even IR stuff is pretty much picking your heading having a think about the wind and flying that heading until you get where you want to be...principle fairly similar to VFR nav and the what you learned when mastering that. The major dos and donts of flying are in the heart of it what you learn at PPL and they stay the same throughout all ratings...only difference being how quick the airplane will decide to f**k you!;)

Being around since 1936 Aer Lingus has tried many different ways to recruit pilots. In the late 1980's they hired 20 or so Irish PPL holders (or foreign license if acceptable) and Aer Lingus gave the the PPL flight test in a Cessna 152 aerobat, EI-BJM which had the call sign "Shamrock One". People who passed this stage were trained in the cadet program at the time, at the PPL syllabus stage and then onwards. A bit of nostaglia.

Ah here shoddy equipment!! I know a bad workman blames his tools but we can make an exception here! Wonder if the radio worked in it back then? Wonder if they had full tanks in it too??

not.socrates

Originally Posted by LeftBase
in a Cessna 152 aerobat, EI-BJM

Umm what are you talking about here please (in earth language). Thanks.

LeftBase

not.socrates wrote: »

Originally Posted by LeftBase
in a Cessna 152 aerobat, EI-BJM

Umm what are you talking about here please (in earth language). Thanks.

EI-BJM is still flying in Weston. It has long range tanks and is famous for it's inability to fly with full tanks and a pilot and passenger/instructor. It also has a dogey radio that neither broadcasts or receives very well.

Dingle_berry

LeftBase wrote: »

. The major dos and donts of flying are in the heart of it what you learn at PPL and they stay the same throughout all ratings...only difference being how quick the airplane will decide to f**k you!;)

Could that not be the reason Aer Lingus, BA, Etihad, etc chose to open the competition to people with or without a PPL? To ensure a uniform standard of training and iron out any "habits" that don't follow company procedures and guidelines they will have to train all cadets from scratch anyway. (Much like how in third level science courses second level science is revised in first year)
Since they will have to train everyone from scratch and they can use computerised/online assessments why not open the competition to everyone and you might catch a few who for whatever reason don't have a PPL but do well at the assessments.
They could be applying a points or weighting system where coming in the top x% of each assesment earns you y points. Having z hours flying experience earns you z bonus points. Nobody but EI HR knows how they're running this and the less others know the more fluid it is. If they don't like the top 10 or 20 cadets their initial formula produces they can tweak it. Their money, their choice!

What I am wondering is how a candidate without a PPL could make up the lack of experience that they will have compared to those with flying hours. Whether EI HR weights it or not, those with a PPL have already gained experience that helps with assessments like the compas+navigation beacon online assesment. Those with a PPL should do better at these.

happy_head

Has anyone else heard anything since the calls about the hours went out? Hearing "rumours" that can kind of back up what was already said here - they are strongly looking at sending over PPL holders only. anyone here in the know able to actually confirm these rumours?

indiep

happy_head wrote: »

Has anyone else heard anything since the calls about the hours went out? Hearing "rumours" that can kind of back up what was already said here - they are strongly looking at sending over PPL holders only. anyone here in the know able to actually confirm these rumours?

Would they not have just cut them before the aptitude tests then?

BigGrayKettle

Got a call earlier with an invitation to an assessment centre on Wednesday. Anybody have an idea of what kind of numbers are being invited to this stage?

ilikemoozic

BigGrayKettle wrote: »

Got a call earlier with an invitation to an assessment centre on Wednesday. Anybody have an idea of what kind of numbers are being invited to this stage?

Was it a private number, landline?

BigGrayKettle

ilikemoozic wrote: »

Was it a private number, landline?

Yes indeed

Shamrock231

Did they call you on your landline or mobile? Did they also send out an email? I take it you didn't miss the actual call? Do you've a PPL or few hours already?

ExtaticFob

BigGrayKettle wrote: »

Yes indeed

I call bull$hit on this! :rolleyes:

Shamrock231

ExtaticFob wrote: »

I call bull$hit on this! :rolleyes:

Ohhhhh, again... *sigh*
I guess I'm glad actually...

BigGrayKettle

ExtaticFob wrote: »

I call bull$hit on this! :rolleyes:

Call bull**** all you want, why would I bother making up something like that? Honestly I'm not that easily entertained and was only asking the question about numbers at the assessment centre.

To answer Shamrock's questions:
Was called on mobile
Yes I missed the call, they left a voicemail which I returned.
They (HR Rep) confirmed my email address and said they would email full details on.
I have 35 hours towards PPL at the moment.

Shamrock231

BigGrayKettle wrote: »

To answer Shamrock's questions:
Was called on mobile
Yes I missed the call, they left a voicemail which I returned.
They (HR Rep) confirmed my email address and said they would email full details on.
I have 35 hours towards PPL at the moment.

Much appreciated.

BigGrayKettle

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Much appreciated.

No problem - I haven't been following the forum here but I'm guessing if I've been invited others will be too. I thought I performed poorly in two of the online assessments so genuinely surprised.

superman900

I got a call today on my mobile to invite me to the assesment day.
I have a CPL, 150+ hours and all ATPLs completed.

ilikemoozic

superman900 wrote: »

I got a call today on my mobile to invite me to the assesment day.
I have a CPL, 150+ hours and all ATPLs completed.

As I previously asked but got an ambiguous answer, was it a private number, was it a landline number? Congrats by the way

BigGrayKettle

ilikemoozic wrote: »

As I previously asked but got an ambiguous answer, was it a private number, was it a landline number? Congrats by the way

When I said yes, I meant yes to both your questions. It was a blocked number, but having left a voicemail to call back, it was a landline. Apologies, I wasn't clear on that.

nabanoba

Just wondering were both of you called last week as well to confirm hours and that?

Thanks in advance.

BigGrayKettle

nabanoba wrote: »

Just wondering were both of you called last week as well to confirm hours and that?

Thanks in advance.

I wasn't actually which further led me not to expect a call. I entered it in the additional info box with a break down of P1/P2, so maybe that was all the info they needed from me.

LeftBase

superman900 wrote: »

I got a call today on my mobile to invite me to the assesment day.
I have a CPL, 150+ hours and all ATPLs completed.

How can you have a CPL with only 150 hours? You need 200 hours to do a CPL fight test.....you cannot hold a CPL with 150 hours..?

happy_head

LeftBase wrote: »

How can you have a CPL with only 150 hours? You need 200 hours to do a CPL fight test.....you cannot hold a CPL with 150 hours..?

Integrated students only need 150

Shamrock231

But if he's completed an integrated course, why is he applying to a cadetship???

LeftBase

happy_head wrote: »

Integrated students only need 150

Integrated students dont get a CPL...they get a fATPL at the end of the course, so he does not "have" a CPL, he has completed CPL training but does not hold the licence. Only licence he will get is his fATPL at the end. That's why when PTC tanked so many were left in the cold.

Plus most integrated schools may you pay CPL and MEIR costs together if the payment is split so this is not a good financial investment unless he is made of money!!

happy_head

Shamrock231 wrote: »

But if he's completed an integrated course, why is he applying to a cadetship???

Yeah good point, and he would also have an IR! I call BS on this one!

happy_head

LeftBase wrote: »

Integrated students dont get a CPL...they get a fATPL at the end of the course, so he does not "have" a CPL, he has completed CPL training but does not hold the licence. Only licence he will get is his fATPL at the end. That's why when PTC tanked so many were left in the cold.

Plus most integrated schools may you pay CPL and MEIR costs together if the payment is split so this is not a good financial investment unless he is made of money!!

Is it not true that there is no such thing a a fATPL and that it is used to describe someone with a CPL, MEIR and MCC?

phonypony

LeftBase wrote: »

Integrated students dont get a CPL...they get a fATPL at the end of the course

Of course they get a CPL (unless they're on an MPL course). An fATPL is not a license, it's a colloquialism for CPL, ATPL theory and IR

LeftBase

happy_head wrote: »

Is it not true that there is no such thing a a fATPL and that it is used to describe someone with a CPL, MEIR and MCC?

phonypony wrote: »

Of course they get a CPL (unless they're on an MPL course). An fATPL is not a license, it's a colloquialism for CPL, ATPL theory and IR

My point is you are not issued with any licence on an integrated course until you finish and get the termed "fATPL". You do the CPL skills test but you do not get a CPL after that. You get your CPL with IR and MCC(fATPL) when you finish(thus meaning you must pay up and finish and not drop out or go elsewhere)

Shamrock231

Still doesn't explain why he'd apply to a cadetship when he already has his CPL...

LeftBase

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Still doesn't explain why he'd apply to a cadetship when he already has his CPL...

MEIR is about 20-25k worth so it works out about the same of he does the cadetship(plus he has a job with EI at the end).

However he is a 1st post and is most likely bull****ting due to the above issues I flagged up.

Also if he is integrated and put CPL 150+ total down 4 weeks ago his integrated course must move very slowly!!

superman900

LeftBase wrote: »

MEIR is about 20-25k worth so it works out about the same of he does the cadetship(plus he has a job with EI at the end).

However he is a 1st post and is most likely bull****ting due to the above issues I flagged up.

Also if he is integrated and put CPL 150+ total down 4 weeks ago his integrated course must move very slowly!!

No bull****, going for the job + type rating.
And yes the integrated course is moving at a snail's place, joys of being at a school with few aircraft and not great weather

Xpro

Student completing an Integrated CPL course should have at least 150 hours prior to starting the course.
A modular student should have at least 175hours before starting a Cpl.

You still have to have no less then 200TT before CPL is issued.
It just means that integrated students can commence the training earlier.

@Superman900

If you claim that you are 150h CPL, you appear to be already an integrated student?
Why apply with EI if already enrolled? :rolleyes:

happy_head

Xpro wrote: »

Student completing an Integrated CPL course should have at least 150 hours prior to starting the course.
A modular student should have at least 175hours before starting a Cpl.

You still have to have no less then 200TT before CPL is issued.
It just means that integrated students can commence the training earlier.

@Superman900

If you claim that you are 150h CPL, you appear to be already an integrated student?
Why apply with EI if already enrolled? :rolleyes:

It's 150 hours for modular too start. Integrated students start CPL training from day 1. They complete an integrated CPL course with 150 hours, they don't need 200TT.

Its all on pages 144 and 145 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS.PDF

Red.Barron

Who cares how many hours he has or what the requirements for a CPL are he got the call up so obviously AL are happy with what they see so far, so quit bickering and begrudging...

I wish him and everyone else who gets through all the best..

I just hope all who do get in appreciate the opportunity they are given because after ATPLs, CPL & Multi IR getting a job will be the biggest hurdle in the whole process so to know that you have one waiting for you is a mega relief....

Lets hope there will be a few more phone calls tomorrow.....

Good luck all.

Flier

happy_head wrote: »

Has anyone else heard anything since the calls about the hours went out? Hearing "rumours" that can kind of back up what was already said here - they are strongly looking at sending over PPL holders only. anyone here in the know able to actually confirm these rumours?

Once again, they are not only looking at PPL's. They will consider everyone from 'no hours' up. And if you're the right stuff, you'll get the job. Like I said before, they'll try and group those with a few hours together, and those with less/no hours together. Just like they did the last time.

Try not to let unfounded rumour rattle you.
And good luck

Xpro

Red.Barron wrote: »

Who cares how many hours he has or what the requirements for a CPL are he got the call up so obviously AL are happy with what they see so far, so quit bickering and begrudging...

I wish him and everyone else who gets through all the best..

I just hope all who do get in appreciate the opportunity they are given because after ATPLs, CPL & Multi IR getting a job will be the biggest hurdle in the whole process so to know that you have one waiting for you is a mega relief....

Lets hope there will be a few more phone calls tomorrow.....

Good luck all.

this is not begrudging and its not about the hours, its about his statement 150Hours and the CPL licence. ( only an integrated student would be in this position)

Maybe its 100% legit, but its certainly an odd one.

Loads of people are on the edge waiting for an email or a phone call, so obviously you would want to know if somebody was spoofing.

FYI, it happened in the past and the last cadetship thread ( you can check out your self) that people were wound up by so called pilots, EI employes,etc, that never actually existed.

happy_head

Red.Barron wrote: »

Who cares how many hours he has or what the requirements for a CPL are he got the call up so obviously AL are happy with what they see so far, so quit bickering and begrudging...

I wish him and everyone else who gets through all the best..

I just hope all who do get in appreciate the opportunity they are given because after ATPLs, CPL & Multi IR getting a job will be the biggest hurdle in the whole process so to know that you have one waiting for you is a mega relief....

Lets hope there will be a few more phone calls tomorrow.....

Good luck all.

No begrudging at all! As Xpro has stated, something doesn't really add up with his story and there was plenty of people making false claims with regards to getting called etc. in the last cadetship.

He may well be telling the truth and best of luck to him if he is and ill hold my hands up and admit I was wrong in doubting him.

GTTDI GOD

just got the call guys...assessment on thursday...i just hav an introductory lesson under the belt

Shamrock231

I've also just gotten the call this morning!!! Delighted!!!! =D

Called on mobile, I've only got an introductory lesson as well. I couldn't be happier right now.

BigGrayKettle

Well done lads - see, I'm an honest guy

Contrails

Wow phone calls and all at this stage! (Not for me mind you). its not like last year at all! Fairly short notice as well no??

ExtaticFob

Congratulations lads, best of luck next week.

Apologies Kettle.

I have no relevant experience so there seems to be a pattern here.