Fergie's Retirement Confirmed, Moyes confirmed as Man Utd Manager

Ulysses Gaze

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The question is will Utd fans put up with the possibility of 2/3 years without the title and maybe missing out on the CL places in one of those years?

Dropping out of the top 4? What you smoking?

Cantona's Collars

Kerrigooney wrote: »

They've been decent. "Breathtaking" is really pushing it.

Thing is,United haven't exactly set the world on fire with their football many's a time this season.

yabadabado

rarnes1 wrote: »

You just made that up.

some of them are that delusional .next year will be our year:pac:

Liam O

zerks wrote: »

Thing is,United haven't exactly set the world on fire with their football many's a time this season.

Moyes doesn't seem loke the type to stand for some of the lacklustre and mediocre performances some players have churned out this season. I just hope he doesn't listen to Fergie when he tells him about Valencia and Young

YouTookMyName

gnfnrhead

Jürgen Klopp

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The question is will Utd fans put up with the possibility of 2/3 years without the title and maybe missing out on the CL places in one of those years?

No way are they missing out on top four. Missing the title maybe, but not top four.

KERSPLAT!

Jürgen Klopp

I reckon United will struggle a little more than this year but that's about it. They'll still be competing for the title and if they don't win it I'd imagine a close second or third. After a year or two Moyes will settle in and United will be back to winning ways. Not a fan of SAF but credit where it's due, probably the best manager there ever was or will be

UnitedIrishman

K-9 wrote: »

I'd say there wasn't that much difference in their budgets over the last couple of years, sure it's the annual Liverpool joke at Kenright at this stage.

He had decent money to spend a few years back, but I'd suspect Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Villa, Sunderland and Stoke all spent more over the last few years. Us Liverpool fans give out about the amount we've wasted, we can't have it both ways and deride a manager who has peanuts compared to us, and looks like he'll finish ahead of us 2 years in a row, putting up a decent shot at 4th in the process.

Liverpool had big money to spend the last couple of seasons, Wenger and Spurs big money to reinvest and he has kept them competitive with little to nothing.

Again, I'll ask what did you expect him to achieve? I've asked that before and nobody answered. Qualify for the CL when English clubs dominated Europe and Villa was spending big, and when City and Spurs joined the race for fourth?

Sometimes I really wonder about so many fans grasp of the context. Both Martinez and Moyes have done very good to excellent jobs at their clubs given their circumstances.

This is 100% spot on.

Also, those speaking about European experience - as mentioned previously Pep had a year at Barca B', Klopp was at Mainz and Conte merely played in European competition.

Moyes will learn. But you're expecting him to run before he can walk - the league is the bread and butter. Are you expecting the next manager to come in and win the treble in his first season? A title defence would be more than adequate for next season. Get new players in, get integrated and get further experience in European competition. Afterall, he would have Champions League experience if Collina hadn't disallowed a goal for nothing in their qualifier vs. Villarreal.

People keep missing out on the fact that United and their board know infinitely more about football than us posting from our laptops and phones. There's a million different things a manager is responsible for and Moyes is as hard working and dilligent as any in the game by all accounts of former players and coaches.

Chucky the tree

Jürgen Klopp

Rekop dog wrote: »

Far better CV than the likes of Pep, Conte, Klopp had. Really irked by the misconception that you need trophy winning experience at the highest level to get a top job or be the most deserving candidate.

Highest level? Klopp took over a team who finished 13th in the Bundesliga, year before that they were 9th. Dortmund hadn't finished top 4 since 2002-2003. Juventus had two back-to-back 7th place finishes before hiring Conte. Pep is a different situation, he was already working for Barca as a coach of the B team and wasn't hired from managing another team.

GSPfan

Jürgen Klopp

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Highest level? Klopp took over a team who finished 13th in the Bundesliga, year before that they were 9th. Dortmund hadn't finished top 4 since 2002-2003. Juventus had two back-to-back 7th place finishes before hiring Conte. Pep is a different situation, he was already working for Barca as a coach of the B team and wasn't hired from managing another team.

I think you missed his point. He also said Top Job, and in their respective countries they are top jobs. All European Cup winners too. It only proves his point more that two of those teams have drastically improved since they took over.

WealthyB

rarnes1 wrote: »

Dropping out of the top 4? What you smoking?

No Liverpool supporters thought Souness would make a pigs ear of LFC as much as he did.. And Souey was a title winning manager when he took the job at Anfield

ahnowbrowncow

Manuel Pellegrini

I think Moyes will win absolutely everything in his 6 year contract and we'll be then saying how useless Ferguson was and how he held United back for so many years.

WealthyB

WealthyB wrote: »

No Liverpool supporters thought Souness would make a pigs ear of LFC as much as he did.. And Souey was a title winning manager when he took the job at Anfield

Different times.

The money in the game is on another planet now.

They would need an almighty collapse to drop 25 points or so from where they'll finish this season.

Chucky the tree

Jürgen Klopp

GSPfan wrote: »

I think you missed his point. He also said Top Job, and in their respective countries they are top jobs. All European Cup winners too. It only proves his point more that two of those teams have drastically improved since they took over.

I didn't miss the point. He claimed they were top jobs, I disagree. I wouldn't consider a top job being a club who's finished mid-table for two years and hadn't finished top 4. I don't think history makes a team a top job. Squad, finances and previous league positions(with-in a few years) would define a top job. Only a team where the best managers in Europe would realistically go their should be considered a top job. There is a massive difference between where Dortmund and Juve where when they employed Klopp aond Conte compared to where United are now.

WealthyB

rarnes1 wrote: »

Different times.

The money in the game is on another planet now.

They would need an almighty collapse to drop 25 points or so from where they'll finish this season.

LFC had plenty of money to spend during his reign (relative to other clubs including Utd)

Fair point re 25 points though, but what will United fans think if they're 9 or more points off the top and not challenging for 1st? The younger ones know nothing else but title challenges and success.

Chucky the tree

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I didn't miss the point. He claimed they were top jobs, I disagree. I wouldn't consider a top job being a club who's finished mid-table for two years and hadn't finished top 4. I don't think history makes a team a top job. Squad, finances and previous league positions(with-in a few years) would define a top job. Only a team where the best managers in Europe would realistically go their should be considered a top job. There is a massive difference between where Dortmund and Juve where when they employed Klopp aond Conte compared to where United are now.

Dortmund were probably closer to where Everton/Liverpool were when Klopp took over

Sin City

I have to laugh,, Man UTD missing out on a top four place
Who do ye think we are, Liverpool


Moyes may have a shaky start but I have confidence that he will be a fantastic manager. He will be able to control some of the egos and hoepfully cut away some dead wood and bring in some fresh blood. Moyes will also have an eye on our youth develoment which can only be a good thing. He is a proper man manager.

Its will be interesting to see how the players though will react to his team meetings as they are more frequenct and possibly more techical than they are used to. Also will he still use football manager to scout players:D

Come on United

Paully D

There's quite a strange pattern that I've noticed of strikers having one very good season and then completely regressing under Moyes. Johnson, Yakubu, Beattie, and now Jelavic looks to be fitting the same pattern too. Maybe I'm misreading it which is entirely possible but it seems to happen a little bit too much to be coincidence. Is it something anyone else has noticed? I'd be particularly interested to hear from Everton fans on it.

Chucky the tree

Jürgen Klopp

Sin City wrote: »

I have to laugh,, Man UTD missing out on a top four place
Who do ye think we are, Liverpool


Moyes may have a shaky start but I have confidence that he will be a fantastic manager. He will be able to control some of the egos and hoepfully cut away some dead wood and bring in some fresh blood. Moyes will also have an eye on our youth develoment which can only be a good thing. He is a proper man manager.

Its will be interesting to see how the players though will react to his team meetings as they are more frequenct and possibly more techical than they are used to. Also will he still use football manager to scout players:D

Come on United

Would that not be a worry?

Sin City

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Would that not be a worry?

Bringing youth players through? be a worry? I dont think so, if they are good enough then bring them through. Im sure he will still buy a few players (now that he has money) or even get Baines and Felliani on free transfers lol. (Fergie put a bid in there for these lads and Ill accept it. a bottle of red should cover it)

Chucky the tree

Jürgen Klopp

Sin City wrote: »

Bringing youth players through? be a worry? I dont think so, if they are good enough then bring them through. Im sure he will still buy a few players (now that he has money) or even get Baines and Felliani on free transfers lol. (Fergie put a bid in there for these lads and Ill accept it. a bottle of red should cover it)

I meant relying on Moyes to develop the youth players.

Sin City

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I meant relying on Moyes to develop the youth players.

Honestly I dont know. Im sure much of the relience will be on the likes of Brian McClair and Moyes will be just getting into it, but further down the line I reckon he will be able to utilise the youth development scheme as Fergie did

AdamD

Manuel Pellegrini

Meglamonia wrote: »

United possibly scrambling for 4th like us this year..or even worse.

Surely if Moyes can finish ahead of Liverpool with Everton he will do it rather comfortably with United. Seems he is seriously under rated by many Liverpool fans..

WealthyB

AdamD wrote: »

Surely if Moyes can finish ahead of Liverpool with Everton he will do it rather comfortably with United. Seems he is seriously under rated by many Liverpool fans..

Once. The year we won Big Ears #5.

As for under rating Moyes, that's probably down to his record of 0 wins at Anfield in 10 years

Blatter

WealthyB wrote: »

Once. The year we won Big Ears #5.

As for under rating Moyes, that's probably down to his record of 0 wins at Anfield in 10 years

As much as you'd probably want to forget last season's league performance, it did happen! :P

Quite likely to happen this season too, so that'll be 2 seasons in a row, 3 times in total.

Mr Whirly

Manuel Pellegrini

WealthyB wrote: »

Once. The year we won Big Ears #5.

As for under rating Moyes, that's probably down to his record of 0 wins at Anfield in 10 years

Do you remember last season?

5starpool

Jürgen Klopp

WealthyB wrote: »

Once. The year we won Big Ears #5.

As for under rating Moyes, that's probably down to his record of 0 wins at Anfield in 10 years

This season will be the 3rd time, assuming there isn't an unlikely finish to the season.

WealthyB

Haha egg on my face there, great to know my selective memory is still top drawer though!

GSPfan

Jürgen Klopp

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I didn't miss the point. He claimed they were top jobs, I disagree. I wouldn't consider a top job being a club who's finished mid-table for two years and hadn't finished top 4. I don't think history makes a team a top job. Squad, finances and previous league positions(with-in a few years) would define a top job. Only a team where the best managers in Europe would realistically go their should be considered a top job. There is a massive difference between where Dortmund and Juve where when they employed Klopp aond Conte compared to where United are now.

They are top jobs. Your definition is not a widely held opinion.

monkey9

Moyes has done an unreal job at Everton. I don't see why this would be disputed. You look at Everton's record in the Premier League before he took over and then look at the record after. It's almost a different club.

An arguement gets thrown about that he didn't win a trophy at Everton. Well that wasn't a requirement, it would have been a bonus of course. But to have Everton challenging for European football on a regular basis is a fantastic achievement.

It'll be interesting to see how he gets on at Utd. The era of complete Utd dominance is certainly over what with clubs like City and Chelsea artificially growing in status and also Arsenal who will become a power again soon enough imo. Losing Ferguson is a big blow cos i'm certain he's the only manager who could possibly have been able to lead that squad to a league title, especially so convincingly.

Utd fans will have to be very patient with Moyes.

Xavi6

Six years eh? Pardew MKII :pac:

djPSB

Who do ye reckon will win the title next season?

Meglamonia

djPSB wrote: »

Who do ye reckon will win the title next season?

If Mourinho goes to Chelsea then Chelsea.

monkey9

Xavi6 wrote: »

Six years eh? Pardew MKII :pac:

Ha! Are you just up??

Chucky the tree

Jürgen Klopp

GSPfan wrote: »

They are top jobs. Your definition is not a widely held opinion.

I'm glad that you've polled everyone on the subject.

Xavi6

monkey9 wrote: »

Ha! Are you just up??

Yes sir! Catching up with the big news.

GSPfan

Jürgen Klopp

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'm glad that you've polled everyone on the subject.

No need.

Corvo

There will be plenty of positives with Moyes, but I think it is absolutely vital that a former player or a legend is made part of the management team. I would imagine Ryan Giggs to be that man.

Moyes, who seems hands-on anyway, will still need a buffer between him and the existing players that have known no other but Ferguson for the past 6-10 years. I'm thinking of Nemanja Vidic, Wayne Rooney, Michael Carrick and Patrice Evra.

These players would be the senior figures which will be vital in this period, carrying on the same attitudes on the pitch that Ferguson instilled off it (and hopefully those which Moyes will continue to promote)

The last thing we need now is Vidic contemplating one last contract at another club or Carrick dropping his head after arguably his best season yet. Giggs would still command the respect of these players and would keep them on their toes. There is the chance that some players will lose momentum (or plain out just look for an exit if the Rooney rumours are true), but Giggs should be able to keep them sharp, drive the optimism back into them and know how to handle the situation on a more personal level than Moyes.

That's not to say Moyes will have a negative impact or will fail to have a good relationship with the players, but there is bound to be a dip, and this is where the Welshman should be able to use years upon years of dressing room experience and his legendary status to inject some passion.

On another note, I can't wait to see Moyes get his teeth into the younger players. I think he will love working with the likes of Phil Jones and Chris Smalling, who should see more game time next year. That's not a criticism of Ferguson, I just think Moyes might be slightly braver in that regard and maybe stick Jones into the centre-back position more regularly. It may lead to some dodgy performances, but the experience should bring them even further on to fulfilling that potential that Ferguson spotted before acquiring them.

I do wonder if plans are already in place to move on Nani and Anderson, as they seemed to be well down Ferguson's priorities. Then again, Moyes may have different plans for these players and they may give it another year (Nani especially) to see if their fortunes change under the new management.

Either way, the sooner he can actually get working and carve his own style onto the side, the better. For better or worse, he is here now and we should welcome his changes, whether it be total dismantling (doubtful) or slight touches.

I do think the Glazer's will sanction one large signing, along with maybe one or two more sensible buys, depending on player sales. They will want to appease the population of doubting fans who imagine an unsuccessful period and you would think that a true "game changer" like Gareth Bale or Radamel Falcao could only help another challenging campaign in the league.

The one worry I have is that if his first season should be one of failure (and when I say failure, I mean not competing for the league) then I think he will be ripped to shreds by fans. If Jose Mourinho was in charge, you would think "Listen, he's quality, he always picks it up the following year. Proven winner, nothing to worry about". But with Moyes, whether rightly or wrongly, pressure will build immediately. I think it's another great reason to have Giggs as part of that management team. It would give you more faith in the whole scenario that it would eventually come round and be right again.

Anyway, apologies for the novel.

Fergie, it's been one hell of a ride. Thanks for everything. Best of luck to David Moyes. You have got some shoes to fill.

GSPfan

Jürgen Klopp

Why do people keep addressing Alex Ferguson in their posts like its fan mail? Ha. He isn't reading it lads. .

K-9

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

This is 100% spot on.

Also, those speaking about European experience - as mentioned previously Pep had a year at Barca B', Klopp was at Mainz and Conte merely played in European competition.

Moyes will learn. But you're expecting him to run before he can walk - the league is the bread and butter. Are you expecting the next manager to come in and win the treble in his first season? A title defence would be more than adequate for next season. Get new players in, get integrated and get further experience in European competition. Afterall, he would have Champions League experience if Collina hadn't disallowed a goal for nothing in their qualifier vs. Villarreal.

People keep missing out on the fact that United and their board know infinitely more about football than us posting from our laptops and phones. There's a million different things a manager is responsible for and Moyes is as hard working and dilligent as any in the game by all accounts of former players and coaches.

Just on the European thing, barring that Ferguson disallowed goal, he had Everton in UEFA/EC Cup action a few times. A team like Everton will always give the league priority over the minor European trophy and rightly so, they just can't try and get 4th and compete in Europe at the same time. Tough enough ask for Liverpool who have a European tradition and the Europa Cup gets treated far too highly for me, simply because of history and legends.

He got Everton as far as any manager could on a consistent basis. Nobody has said otherwise so it's just irrational hatred that is knocking him, it isn't the 80's anymore when Merseyside dominated the league.

Yep, he's an underwhelming choice as manager, not box office, entertaining and sexy enough for the aficionados of the game, he's a solid choice. No doubt Hodgson will get mentioned again, Hodgson has a European CV, what was his comment, should be up there with Fergie or such, Moyes doesn't strike me as a self publicist type, he doesn't have to justify his record to people who appreciate the tough task he had.

Mourinho was always a non runner, just a fan choice. He'd wreck a club like United or Liverpool, make it all about him, you might get short term results but that would be it, the club is second to his ego.

The only recent English comparison to what United are doing is Liverpool, the boot room was seamless from Shankly to Paisley to Fagan, it was as if no manager change ever happened. When Dalglish got player manager Paisley was there for advice, he used it. Sounness came in with his record and his big ego from Rangers and ruined everything. Moyes will have the cop on not to do that and look for advice.

Chucky the tree

Jürgen Klopp

K-9 wrote: »

Just on the European thing, barring that Ferguson disallowed goal, he had Everton in UEFA/EC Cup action a few times. A team like Everton will always give the league priority over the minor European trophy and rightly so, they just can't try and get 4th and compete in Europe at the same time. Tough enough ask for Liverpool who have a European tradition and the Europa Cup gets treated far too highly for me, simply because of history and legends.

He got Everton as far as any manager could on a consistent basis. Nobody has said otherwise so it's just irrational hatred that is knocking him, it isn't the 80's anymore when Merseyside dominated the league.

Yep, he's an underwhelming choice as manager, not box office, entertaining and sexy enough for the aficionados of the game, he's a solid choice. No doubt Hodgson will get mentioned again, Hodgson has a European CV, what was his comment, should be up there with Fergie or such, Moyes doesn't strike me as a self publicist type, he doesn't have to justify his record to people who appreciate the tough task he had.

Mourinho was always a non runner, just a fan choice. He'd wreck a club like United or Liverpool, make it all about him, you might get short term results but that would be it, the club is second to his ego.

The only recent English comparison to what United are doing is Liverpool, the boot room was seamless from Shankly to Paisley to Fagan, it was as if no manager change ever happened. When Dalglish got player manager Paisley was there for advice, he used it. Sounness came in with his record and his big ego from Rangers and ruined everything. Moyes will have the cop on not to do that and look for advice.

Huh? There are much better comparisons. Moyes never worked at United. Plenty of managers have done well in the PL and performed beyond what was expected/past their resources and have been given a chance at a supposed bigger club.

Allardyce from Bolton to Newcastle
Hodgson from Fulham to Liverpool - ugh.
Mark Hughes from Blackburn to City.

Mr.Nice Guy

Jürgen Klopp

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Huh? There are much better comparisons. Moyes never worked at United. Plenty of managers have done well in the PL and performed beyond what was expected/past their resources and have been given a chance at a supposed bigger club.

Allardyce from Bolton to Newcastle
Hodgson from Fulham to Liverpool - ugh.
Mark Hughes from Blackburn to City.

The first two you mentioned were good coaches who never got a chance from the fans they represented. Hodgson has gone on to do well with England, in spite of what many of the naysayers around here predicted. I think England fans are happy with him and he's not done badly with a higher calibre of player at his disposal. Hughes was a little hard done by at the time if we recall.

I think Moyes will be given a chance by the vast majority of United fans and that will be all important.

The old school model made famous by Liverpool, and mimicked by Barcelona in recent times, is the path United are going down and having Fergie there to give counsel will make for an easier transition than might have been possible with other figures in the role.

Aidric

Jürgen Klopp

One good thing about all this, it's served as a very valuable cretin filter. Some of the nonsense posted here makes an average talksport caller look reasonable.

Henlars67

Irish people calling him 'Sir Alex' would want to come around to themselves

5starpool

Jürgen Klopp

After a bit of time to think about it my general opinion on Moyes is that he is certainly not in the same category as Hodgson or Rodgers when they were appointed to Liverpool and I can certainly see the rationale behind it.

While the likes of Klopp, Mourinho or even Guardiola (if he were available) would be the names people would generally bandy about, they all come with significant risk of their own in different ways. They have a better CV to point to, but there would be question marks over their will to be there long term (maybe not Klopp there) or may not have managed in England before, or may be reluctant to work with Ferguson somewhat as an overseer. I have no idea what Ferguson's role in the next few years will be, but it will be hard for him to be fully hands off I reckon, and Moyes is probably going to be more receptive to input than others might be, although I still think he will be his own man.

He has a good record given what he has had to work with at Everton. Is it a risk? Of course it is, but I think to an extent, at least in the first couple of years it will somewhat be business as usual in that utd will still be challenging for the title. I can't see less than 80 points next year really, unless there is a bigger upheaval in the summer than expected.

No matter what the general opinion is though, it is inevitable that there will be pressure on him even by Christmas if utd are 8th or something and not performing well in the CL, but I really don't see that happening next season. Whether it is this summer or not, in the next few years a lot of senior members of the squad will leave or be used far less, and replacing them will be the litmus test really. The clubs name will still attract a lot of the top talent, so it's not like he will be shopping from the same wishlist that he has been the last few years. Utd are not a poor team and can compete on most fronts financially with anyone. It could go wrong, but I expect somewhat of a continuation, albeit less consistent perhaps.

Obviously I hope it all goes Pete Tong for both clubs, but unlikely to happen for utd, at least catastrophically anyhow. Everton though as possibly in far more peril, but that's a different story.

citytillidie

Kirby wrote: »

I don't think any of us are shocked that a Liverpool fan has a less than stellar opinion of David Moyes. You don't think its possible at all that your opinion might be clouded by rivalry?

The fact that you keep referring to them as a mid table team highlight this fact tbh. They are consistently better than that.

3 times in 11 seasons is not better, 2 seasons when Liverpool have been bad and one season where Liverpool ended up Champions of Europe, even Kenny with a bad Liverpool team won more in 1 and half seasons than Moyles did

Gorilla Rising

Manuel Pellegrini

Aidric wrote: »

One good thing about all this, it's served as a very valuable cretin filter. Some of the nonsense posted here makes an average talksport caller look reasonable.

Indeed.

Henlars67 wrote: »

Irish people calling him 'Sir Alex' would want to come around to themselves

citytillidie

Daroxtar wrote: »

I was somewhat underwhelmed at the prospect of Moyes taking over but I had a glance at the league tables since he took over. You can't take away that outside of Arsenal, Chelsea Liverpool and Man U, Everton under Moyes have been just about the most consistent team in the league and there really is no comparison in what he has had available to him to keep that consistency going.
Another thing is that when people say Fergie had success before coming to United, well the scottish league consists of 2 sh!te teams and a pile of utterly sh!te teams so it was a hell of a lot easier to crack that and get a shot at European football than it is to do the same in the PL.
I say let him have his shot and if we're still trophyless in 3 years then maybe he was a bad choice but there's a fair chance he could be just the right man for the job.
Now if he could get Ronaldo back as a sweetener for apprehensive fans.....;)

Also dont forget when Fergie took over at Aberdeen the city and team did have a huge increase in cash with oil money

kryogen

citytillidie wrote: »

3 times in 11 seasons is not better, 2 seasons when Liverpool have been bad and one season where Liverpool ended up Champions of Europe, even Kenny with a bad Liverpool team won more in 1 and half seasons than Moyles did

Honestly its like a ****ing mental block to certain people.

How hard is it?

monkey9

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The first two you mentioned were good coaches who never got a chance from the fans they represented. Hodgson has gone on to do well with England, in spite of what many of the naysayers around here predicted. I think England fans are happy with him and he's not done badly with a higher calibre of player at his disposal. Hughes was a little hard done by at the time if we recall.

I think Moyes will be given a chance by the vast majority of United fans and that will be all important.

The old school model made famous by Liverpool, and mimicked by Barcelona in recent times, is the path United are going down and having Fergie there to give counsel will make for an easier transition than might have been possible with other figures in the role.

I think it's safe to assume that if Moyes has Utd a couple of places off the relegation spot come January, he won't be given a chance by Utd fans. And rightly so.