Fergie's Retirement Confirmed, Moyes confirmed as Man Utd Manager

Xavi6

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Let us have our moment? Jesus xavi I expected more from you to be honest that reaks of bitterness. I'm honestly surprised at you didn't take you as one of those kinda fans. Jesus I want moyes to win league just so I can rub salt in a years time now

See this is the misconception, I'm not bitter in the slightest. The fact that I and others are so happy that Ferguson has retired is possibly a far bigger tribute to the man than the blubbing United fans.

When Chelsea change manager? Couldn't care less. When Spurs sack someone? Meh (except for Harry). Liverpool bring in another regime? Laugh.

United, who are our biggest rivals in case reminding is needed, are a different kettle of fish because he's just been so bloody good. With that in mind, why would I NOT be delighted that he's gone? It's feckin' fantastic and I make no apologies for stating as much.

Will I Amnt

SlickRic wrote: »

to be fair, there are many Utd fans who should themselves remember how active they've been on Liverpool threads when it comes to situations like this one.

Yea I know that. That's just the way it is around here. It's a two way thing. I'm just hoping other people realise that now instead of crying "obsessed" next time.

Fuhrer

Xavi6 wrote: »

Terrible analogy, the two aren't even close. City had no money six years ago, Ferguson's been at OT for two decades more than that.

I can't even tell if that was a cheap shot or not it was so bad.

That was his joke I guess, people only started supporting City once they got money or some such

Leftist

there's been abus writing united off since the early 90s. Our time came and went in 92 when united lost at anfield. Oh no wait, the time has come and gone in 95, selling Kanchelskis, Ince and Hughes ffs
Oh no wait, Cantona's gone.
Oh no, wait, Arsenal are good.
Oops, Chelsea have blasted them out of the water.
Oh jheeze here's the fat spanish liar, ooopsey, he's only gone and failed.
Uh Oh, 1-6, the behemoth has risen, Fergie is old and smells of beds, they're screwball scrambled.
Oh no wait it's Moyes and he's 60% deceased.

Wait and see. We ain't gonna do no liverpool that's for shizzle.

Essien

Manuel Pellegrini

Leftist wrote: »

there's been abus writing united off since the early 90s. Our time came and went in 92 when united lost at anfield. Oh no wait, the time has come and gone in 95, selling Kanchelskis, Ince and Hughes ffs
Oh no wait, Cantona's gone.
Oh no, wait, Arsenal are good.
Oops, Chelsea have blasted them out of the water.
Oh jheeze here's the fat spanish liar, ooopsey, he's only gone and failed.
Uh Oh, 1-6, the behemoth has risen, Fergie is old and smells of beds, they're screwball scrambled.
Oh no wait it's Moyes and he's 60% deceased.

Wait and see. We ain't gonna do no liverpool that's for shizzle.

You're obviously ignoring the one major, constant factor for United over that period of time, which is funny given which thread this is.

cournioni

Best of luck to Moyes in his time at United. While I think that it will be tough for him, he will be mentally strong enough to pull through and become a success. The one thing he needs now is a winning mentality, and by that I mean trophies.

jive

Jürgen Klopp

Hulk Hands wrote: »

These threads might be some fun to come back to in a year or so. Every second person getting their little dig in.

People are talking about Ferguson being that extra few points difference between winning a title and losing. Do the people writing United off realise that have walked the league this year by 10-15 points. It's going to take a sizeable fall off from United and a big step up from City/Chelsea to bridge that gap. There's no reason why United shouldn't improve (players wise at least) over the summer also, with a decent kitty being provided for Moyes and some of the younger players maturing.

On the topic of gambling, United are currently 2's for next seasons title, and you'll likely see slightly bigger before the start in August. That's serious value. There is next to no chance of anyone bar City, Chelsea and United winning it. So, if all 3 teams had equal chances, then the 2's on United would be fair. Only they're not equal. Despite the change around in manager, United at this stage are still the most likely out of the 3, given history and what happened this season. It could also make a filthy e/w bet with the place part (1/3 odds 2 places) giving 4/6 on them to finish in the top 2. That's a 1/3 shot in reality

Fair points. United, regardless of who is in charge, have a great squad. They mightn't have the greatest 11 in the world but in terms of squad they can chop and change the majority of their team with very little effect to the overall quality of the starting 11; I believe this is why they are always so retardedly strong in the league but don't do as well in cups (relative to the league at least).

Having said that though, if Mourinho goes back to Chelsea then I won't be backing United for fairly self-explanatory reasons. Mourinho will do well as he always does and that Chelsea team has a lot of quality. That's not even taking into account City who might strengthen their squad over the summer but it remains to be seen how their league form will hold up should they enter the latter stages of the Champions League which I'd expect them to next year.

Kind of rambling now but 2's seems a fair price, maybe a bit generous given their history and squad but I wouldn't look at the table this year as a fair reflection because of Chelsea's arsing about and City's lack of hunger (which may or may not return now that they have been deservedly dethroned). If City/Chelsea sign Falcao/Cavani then I would hope the league will be a more exciting prospect next year.

Moyes will do well at United without doubt. Quality squad and stable club, he'd be hard pushed to fúck up so badly that United aren't there or thereabouts come this time next year.

jmayo

like a few others have said...
I like Moyes and I think he deserves a chance at a bigger club, but being an avid anti united fan I want him to fail.

I think Moyes success or failure could be dependent on one of two things and that is the appointment of managers at Chelsea and City.

If City got rid of the eejit mancini and brought in someone like Mourinho, Klopp, Pellegrini, Simeone, etc then they might actually start putting all that money to proper use.
For all the money mancini has had he is once again proven a flop, especially when you look at his European record.

Or if Chelsea finally get their act together and bring back Mourinho and the owner somehow manages to keep his oar out of things then they will be proper title contenders.

Now if either or both of those happen it really puts the pressure on united.
IMHO united did well the last few years with teams that are substandard in comparison to the ones they had years before.

They were helped in no small measure by the fact their neighbours were a home for screwups and Chelsea decided to fire their best manager who had won the double and then continue to screw around.

If Chelsea continue to screw around, City keep mancini then Moyes is off to a good start.
I could also say that Arsenal could be title contenders if they ever decided to spend the money that is always supposedly available, but being honest the chances of that happening are slim to none.

The big question is what will be acceptable results in the first couple of seasons of Moyes stewardship.
If they win nothing or only pick up something like FA Cup/League Cup over a couple of years will he it be acceptable ?
For all fergie's achievements his first few years were lean and lets face it the expectations of united fans back then was a lot less than they are today.
Hell they were happy with FA cup wins back then.

Dun laoire

Hulk Hands wrote: »

These threads might be some fun to come back to in a year or so. Every second person getting their little dig in.

People are talking about Ferguson being that extra few points difference between winning a title and losing. Do the people writing United off realise that have walked the league this year by 10-15 points. It's going to take a sizeable fall off from United and a big step up from City/Chelsea to bridge that gap. There's no reason why United shouldn't improve (players wise at least) over the summer also, with a decent kitty being provided for Moyes and some of the younger players maturing.

On the topic of gambling, United are currently 2's for next seasons title, and you'll likely see slightly bigger before the start in August. That's serious value. There is next to no chance of anyone bar City, Chelsea and United winning it. So, if all 3 teams had equal chances, then the 2's on United would be fair. Only they're not equal. Despite the change around in manager, United at this stage are still the most likely out of the 3, given history and what happened this season. It could also make a filthy e/w bet with the place part (1/3 odds 2 places) giving 4/6 on them to finish in the top 2. That's a 1/3 shot in reality

The sizeable fall won't happn but i would expect Man City and Chelsea to bridge that gap considerably next season. What i expect is a good run for the title next year from United and if they cant win it well 2nd spot is what i would want. If he gets a good run in the CL and can win either the fa or carling cup it will be for me anyway a very very good season for Moyes. I would love for him to grab one trophy next year which i think will settle him right in and keep that winning mentality within Manchester United.

Red Crow

Dun laoire wrote: »

The sizeable fall won't happn but i would expect Man City and Chelsea to bridge that gap considerably next season. What i expect is a good run for the title next year from United and if they cant win it well 2nd spot is what i would want. If he gets a good run in the CL and can win either the fa or carling cup it will be for me anyway a very very good season for Moyes. I would love for him to grab one trophy next year which i think will settle him right in and keep that winning mentality within Manchester United.

You would of expected that anyway under Ferguson or not. There is no way City and Chelsea are going to be as badly managed next year.

Iang87

Jürgen Klopp

Dun laoire wrote: »

The sizeable fall won't happn but i would expect Man City and Chelsea to bridge that gap considerably next season. What i expect is a good run for the title next year from United and if they cant win it well 2nd spot is what i would want. If he gets a good run in the CL and can win either the fa or carling cup it will be for me anyway a very very good season for Moyes. I would love for him to grab one trophy next year which i think will settle him right in and keep that winning mentality within Manchester United.

yep thats my take on the whole thing. I think the mentality needs to be kept but the true test imo will come when its time to rebuild, fergusons gift was winning during rebuilding, no1 else does that and I cant see Moyes doing that either. It will be how and if he comes out of that first rebuilding phase that will ultmiately judge him.

Dun laoire

Eli Manning wrote: »

You would of expected that anyway under Ferguson or not. There is no way City and Chelsea are going to be as badly managed next year.

Under Ferguson most would expect to keep the title at OT next year.

StephenHendry

Dun laoire wrote: »

Under Ferguson most would expect to keep the title at OT next year.

+1

Sir Alex was one of the main reasons MU won the PL in 2011 and 2013 with teams that were not near as good as they were in the 90s and early 00's . I like DM but he will be under pressure to win trophies from the off, he has a strong squad but he will be expected to build another championship winning team very quickly in the next couple years when the likes of giggs, scholes and ferdinand retire but his work at everton means he is deserving of a chance to win the PL imo

Iused2likebusts

I think the empire is about to crumble. Really surprised that he got the job, hes never won anything and bar this year everton have never really played good football. There was a couple of seasons they practically played without a striker. The reasons Ive seen to give him the job are that hes loyal and Scottish. Little or no european experience and has never had to deal with squad rotation as he just picked the same eleven every week at everton. I think keeping 25 internationals happy was one of fergies key strengths. If he doesnt start well or win a trophy in the first couple of years I think some of the utd fans( the sky sports generation ) will quickly turn on him.
It is admirable that Utd have gone with a British manager but to me their choice is a big risk.

Sin City

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I think the empire is about to crumble. Really surprised that he got the job, hes never won anything and bar this year everton have never really played good football. There was a couple of seasons they practically played without a striker. The reasons Ive seen to give him the job are that hes loyal and Scottish. Little or no european experience and has never had to deal with squad rotation as he just picked the same eleven every week at everton. I think keeping 25 internationals happy was one of fergies key strengths. If he doesnt start well or win a trophy in the first couple of years I think some of the utd fans( the sky sports generation ) will quickly turn on him.
It is admirable that Utd have gone with a British manager but to me their choice is a big risk.

I dont think so. Moyes had always had a limited squad (Felliani and baines aside) Yet he still managed to achieve above expectation. I dont think this is the end of Man United dominence as Fergie will still be around for DM to get advice from. A lot seems to br made of european expierence and yes he does lack expierence in the big games that will feature. Yes its going to be a learning curve for him, but I expect he and the staff know this and Ill bet he will prepare for it. He will have all the stats on the opposing teams and he will work out Man Utds best tactics to play against them.

Sounds like rival fans wishfull thinking

Look at Liverpool and Brenden Rodgers
What has he ever achieved in England bar get Swansea up and playing well

Iused2likebusts

Sin City wrote: »

I dont think so. Moyes had always had a limited squad (Felliani and baines aside) Yet he still managed to achieve above expectation. I dont think this is the end of Man United dominence as Fergie will still be around for DM to get advice from. A lot seems to br made of european expierence and yes he does lack expierence in the big games that will feature. Yes its going to be a learning curve for him, but I expect he and the staff know this and Ill bet he will prepare for it. He will have all the stats on the opposing teams and he will work out Man Utds best tactics to play against them.

Sounds like rival fans wishfull thinking

Look at Liverpool and Brenden Rodgers
What has he ever achieved in England bar get Swansea up and playing well

Im not going to lie there is definetly some wishful thinking on my behalf. He wouldnt be inheriting the greatest of utd squads IMO and its to fergies credit he won the league so comfortably with that squad.When it comes to attracting big name players I would say barca, real, bayern munich and chelsea(if they get mourinho) would be a more attractive proposition than Utd with an unproven Moyes for these players.
In fairness to Rodgers his greatest achievement has been in replacing" the squad" with the words "the group" in most managers press conferences.

Winston Payne

Jürgen Klopp

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

He wouldnt be inheriting the greatest of utd squads IMO and its to fergies credit he won the league so comfortably with that squad.

GK: De Gea, Lindegaard, Amos
Def: Ferdinand, Vidic, Evans, Smalling, Jones, Evra, Rafael, Fabio, Buttner
Mid: Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson, Powell, Kagawa, Giggs, Zaha, Young, Valencia, Nani
Att: van Persie, Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez

I haven't included Macheda or Fletcher as I think they'll be sold on and retire respectively. Is that squad so bad? One or two signings in CM (which is what we were all hoping for with SAF anyway this summer) and it's good to go surely?

Al Capwned

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Im not going to lie there is definetly some wishful thinking on my behalf. He wouldnt be inheriting the greatest of utd squads IMO and its to fergies credit he won the league so comfortably with that squad.When it comes to attracting big name players I would say barca, real, bayern munich and chelsea(if they get mourinho) would be a more attractive proposition than Utd with an unproven Moyes for these players.
In fairness to Rodgers his greatest achievement has been in replacing" the squad" with the words "the group" in most managers press conferences.

Blatter

The ironic thing is that it probably is the greatest ever United squad. Most definitely one of them anyway.

GSPfan

Jürgen Klopp

This thread should be closed now. The madness from non United fans is contagious. Outrageous doomsday predictions a plenty.

Iused2likebusts

Winston Payne wrote: »

GK: De Gea, Lindegaard, Amos
Def: Ferdinand, Vidic, Evans, Smalling, Jones, Evra, Rafael, Fabio, Buttner
Mid: Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson, Powell, Kagawa, Giggs, Zaha, Young, Valencia, Nani
Att: van Persie, Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez

I haven't included Macheda or Fletcher as I think they'll be sold on and retire respectively. Is that squad so bad? One or two signings in CM (which is what we were all hoping for with SAF anyway this summer) and it's good to go surely?

rafaels not a good enough defender at the top level. Great going forward against 80 % of teams in the premiership. I think you need a RB
evra has had a great season but is getting on a bit and was very poor the season before. Possible LB
Centre Backs I think your strong lots of options.
Midfield huge problems carrick had a great season and kagawa at times looks good if he can be used correctly. Valencia had a terrible season but has proved before that hes up to standard. Giggs is finished ,zaha Who knows, Nani anderson will probably be sold. Young and Cleverly are england internationals and have their moments but not top level players for me.
Forwards RVP world Class, Hernandez I really like but never gets a proper run out, Wellbeck doesnt score enough but has improved as a player, Rooney may or may not stay. I think your quite strong up front.
Overall I would say Keepers good, CBs very strong, Definetely need 1 FB, 2-3 Midfielders needed, Forwards strong need 1 more if rooneys sold.
Utd won the league easy but were they ever that convincing and against R Madrid a total change of tactics to a defensive approach which was working up to a point but was put to shame when we saw how Dortmund approached their game against Real.
This is what I feel Im not trying to wind up people but honestly think Chelsea and City will be back next year and thats without even considering europe. I would say atleast 4 starting players are needed.

Gorilla Rising

Manuel Pellegrini

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Utd won the league easy but were they ever that convincing and against R Madrid a total change of tactics to a defensive approach which was working up to a point but was put to shame when we saw how Dortmund approached their game against Real.

Rafael is outstanding. How many times have you watched him honestly? Full games? He makes some great tackles as well as picking up a few cards I admit.

Also, you're really talking how Moyse will fair tactically as opposed to the quality of United's squad.

I'm interested to see how United play anyway. Hopefully 3 at the back!

Mars Bar

Rafael most certainly does not need replacing.

yabadabado

GSPfan wrote: »

This thread should be closed now. The madness from non United fans is contagious. Outrageous doomsday predictions a plenty.

QFT

Will I Amnt

yabadabado wrote: »

QFT

No nerd speak please :pac:
I hate googling acronyms.

UnitedIrishman

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

rafaels not a good enough defender at the top level..

I stopped reading here.

Gu'lad. That's the end of that discussion.

Ulysses Gaze

Jürgen Klopp

Blatter wrote: »

The ironic thing is that it probably is the greatest ever United squad. Most definitely one of them anyway.

Don't think any first choice 11 in the current squad is better than the '99 first team...more depth than 1999 though in terms of replacements.

Better keeper in 1999

As good a back 4 back then

Far better Midfield quartet

Up front is better now in 2013 then back in 1999. Still Yorke and Cole just had a telepathic understanding that made them more than the sum of their parts.

Winston Payne

Jürgen Klopp

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Don't think any first choice 11 is better than the '99 first team...more depth than then though in terms of replacements.

Better keeper in 1999

As good a back 4 back then

Far better Midfield quartet

Up front is better now in 2013 then back in 1999. Still Yorke and Cole just had a telepathic understanding that made them more than the sum of their parts.

Better team yes. Better squad no. The pool of players is far deeper.

efb

Will Fergie play Rooney in his last home game? I hope not

Iused2likebusts

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

I stopped reading here.

Gu'lad. That's the end of that discussion.

the key word is defender. Ill stand over it rafael is not a good defender hes great going forward and doesnt get tested defensively against 80% of teams in the premiership.Different story when up against city, chelsea and the better european teams. Compare him to someone like zabaleta if you want to make a proper comparison of the type of player thats needed. Look back over all the goals utd conceded this year and I bet he is at fault more times than any other utd player.

Lovely Bloke

Rafael is a decent-ish defender, and getitng better. He's still a concern for getting a stupid red card though, something that needs to be completely gone from his game next season, or serious questions need to be asked of his game and mentaility in big games. Brilliant coming forward, which is becoming more and more the role of the "full back" in today's game. Allow the full backs to be mainly attackers, with one of the CMs dropping deep to help the centre halves instead of the full back tucking in - this also allows for inversed wingers - winger comes inside, full back overlaps on the outside - maximising the pitch space in the final third.

It's his defensive duties that let him down - his positioning is suspect, and if he gets beaten by a player more than twice, the frustration always seems to boil over, and he loses control of his game, starts tackling recklessly - and in bigger games he can sometimes just start a game with that mentality, and is a liability from the get-go.

Certian people give him a pass though, because he's "cute" or some bollox like that - "awwwh, look at his curly hair and youthful looks" - as if he's some kind of labrador playing with toilet roll.

kryogen

Or they go a little easier on him as they can see what a ****ing beast he is at such a young age, improving every year and well on his way to being the best right back in the world

He has improved defensively massively already, he is fantastic going forward but of course both areas of his game can and will be improved upon again.

TL;DR

Rafael = Beast

Liam O

It's amazing how people think now if a player isn't perfect by the time he's 21 or 22 that he's not good enough. In American sports a lot of players don't even come into the league until they're that age.

Iused2likebusts

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Rafael is a decent-ish defender, and getitng better. He's still a concern for getting a stupid red card though, something that needs to be completely gone from his game next season, or serious questions need to be asked of his game and mentaility in big games. Brilliant coming forward, which is becoming more and more the role of the "full back" in today's game. Allow the full backs to be mainly attackers, with one of the CMs dropping deep to help the centre halves instead of the full back tucking in - this also allows for inversed wingers - winger comes inside, full back overlaps on the outside - maximising the pitch space in the final third.

It's his defensive duties that let him down - his positioning is suspect, and if he gets beaten by a player more than twice, the frustration always seems to boil over, and he loses control of his game, starts tackling recklessly - and in bigger games he can sometimes just start a game with that mentality, and is a liability from the get-go.

Certian people give him a pass though, because he's "cute" or some bollox like that - "awwwh, look at his curly hair and youthful looks" - as if he's some kind of labrador playing with toilet roll.

I agree with all that and I get your point on the changing role of a full back. Most people look at rafael bombing forward and think hes having a great game but there is more to it than that.

Lovely Bloke

Oh right, we are going down the road of "if you don't think a player is absolutely brilliant, I automatically assume you think he's shíte", cool.

Also a bit of "don't you dare criticise a player at the club I support, I take it as a grave personal insult" thrown in for good measure.

Fúckin hell lads, he's good coming forward, I said that - he's also defensively suspect - at the moment - I said that, and I also said he is improving that part of his game. Just because I wasn't frothing at the gash about him doesn't mean I think he's rubbish.

Do you not think he is, even slightly, suspect at defending. Is he NOT more of a red card risk than other Right Back options currently at the club? If you don't answer "yes" to them, you are nothing more than a deludo who should be supporting a different club, down the road.

Jesus wept.

kryogen

You must not be reading peoples responses properly

2ndcoming

Jürgen Klopp

Have to say I think Baldy Conscience is spot on about Rafael, and described people's reactions pretty accurately too in fairness.

Anyway, I just wanted to gauge what people's thoughts are on Fergie just "moving upstairs".

Does nobody think it would be better for him to just go and enjoy his well earned rest? I think it would be better to just let Moyes be the new man, end of. If one of the players have a bust-up with Moyes, Fergie's presence definitely wouldn't help the situation. Noo keshtun aboot it. Could end up like Shankly getting banned from the training ground!

monkey9

2ndcoming wrote: »

Have to say I think Baldy Conscience is spot on about Rafael, and described people's reactions pretty accurately too in fairness.

Anyway, I just wanted to gauge what people's thoughts are on Fergie just "moving upstairs".

Does nobody think it would be better for him to just go and enjoy his well earned rest? I think it would be better to just let Moyes be the new man, end of. If one of the players have a bust-up with Moyes, Fergie's presence definitely wouldn't help the situation. Noo keshtun aboot it. Could end up like Shankly getting banned from the training ground!

It'll be nothing like that. Shankly resigned fully from the club, he had no role. But he was still turning up at the training ground which made things awkward for a while.

Ferguson's presence at the club will be a help to Moyes, i'd imagine, without being overbearing. Ferguson is not stupid. He'll be there to advise Moyes should Moyes ask for it and nothing more. Other than that, he'll promote the club.

If you want to compare to Liverpool, i'd imagine it would be more like Paisley still being at the club upstairs when King Kenny took over.

Cypher_sounds

efb wrote: »

Will Fergie play Rooney in his last home game? I hope not

I thunk he will want Rooney playing, given its his last stand at home.

Renn

Think Moyes will bring anyone with him? Baines would seem like the best option but not sure if there's even a possibility of that happening.

Lovely Bloke

Fellaini is the best option.

JPA

I'd nearly say United had a better chance of getting Baines or Fellaini if Moyes had NOT been appointed.
He might be reluctant to disrupt Everton.

miralize

Other

JPA wrote: »

I'd nearly say United had a better chance of getting Baines or Fellaini if Moyes had NOT been appointed.
He might be reluctant to disrupt Everton.

He also might be willing to throw money their way too.

Liam O

Fellaini's gone in the summer regardless I reckon, might as well get him if the release clause story is true.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Jürgen Klopp

Are the city fans still trolling in here?


Thought not

Laois_Man

CSF wrote: »

Jesus. Overexaggeration of the century

Everton's football this season has been sublime at times and it's no exaggeration whatsoever. Don't believe me? Watch MOTD tonight. Watch the goal Mirallas just scored for Everton. If Barcelona scored it, you'd see it on SSN every hour for the next 2 days with them having orgasms over it.

Infact, just watch the whole first half hour of the game. A performance fairly typical of many Everton performances this season. Then come back and tell me it's an exaggeration.

efb

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

I thunk he will want Rooney playing, given its his last stand at home.

Rooney not even in the squad. Fergie lays the smack down

Dempsey

Jürgen Klopp

efb wrote: »

Rooney not even in the squad. Fergie lays the smack down

Out celebrating like John Terry though!

Talksport just said Moyes wasn't first choice. Ancellotti was.

First I heard of it?

Metro have it here

jonnyfingers

rarnes1 wrote: »

Talksport just said Moyes wasn't first choice. Ancellotti was.

First I heard of it?

Metro have it here

Two things in your post cast doubt on that story, "Talksport" and "Metro".