Windows Failed DOE !

brian29black

Hi,

Any one have experience of the plastic windows failing the DOE cause there is no E mark? I have a Knaus Travellar and all the plastic windows have no e mark , rang the RSA but they just gave me the rules , trying to contact the manufacturer for some documentation.

spaceHopper

Put mine through last year and they said nothing but it's coach built van so maybe that makes a difference.

niloc1951

brian29black wrote: »

Hi,

Any one have experience of the plastic windows failing the DOE cause there is no E mark? I have a Knaus Travellar and all the plastic windows have no e mark , rang the RSA but they just gave me the rules , trying to contact the manufacturer for some documentation.

Windows do not have to the the E mark. There are other standards which are recognised by the RSA SEE PAGE THREE HERE
A motorhome from a major manufacturer like Knaus will have approved windows.
It looks like the tester hasn't properly read up on the requirements.

If your vehicle has windows marked with any of the standards listed on the above document it can't be failed just because it hasn't the more recent E mark.

brian29black

Thanks for the replies, the problem is there are no marks what so ever on the plastic windows , have been in contact with Knaus waiting for reply,

brian29black

Thanks for the RSA doc very helpful ,

niloc1951

brian29black wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, the problem is there are no marks what so ever on the plastic windows , have been in contact with Knaus waiting for reply,

Most unusual, I know you can't answer the question, but how did a mainstream manufacturer like Knaus get a motorhome on the road in the first place with windows not carrying one of the required marks of approval and how has it passed previous tests abroad if it's an import

The reply from Knaus will be very interesting.

Irishgoatman

It's possible that the windows have been replaced for some reason.

I need new windows, as I've said on another thread, but the firm that can make them for me cannot put a safety mark on them. If my problem had occured before new regulations came into force it's possible that I would now have unmarked ones, despite being made with the identical material as the originals.

brian29black

Yep agree most unusual , unless the windows were changed after it was manufactured? , unlikely all the windows were changed! , rang Access this morning to esquire about an engineer report to state they are ok just waiting to hear back, will let you know how it goes.

Irishgoatman

Very much doubt that an engineers report will do.

If you read the test regs any letter has to come from manufactorer.

I've had 3 or 4 conversations with the RSA over my possible new windows, and even though I have letters showing the the material that would be used for my new windows is identical to that used on the existing, marked, windows, that is not acceptable.

brian29black

Thanks, so looking at the manufacturers letter as the only option left , my German isn't to good !!!!

Irishgoatman

Nowhere in the regulations does it state that a letter from the manufactures has to be in Irish or English:D.

2 stroke

What's totally bul**** is that you can fail for plastic windows, yet much of the rest of the camper can be made of plastic.
The workvan I drive has perspex side windows, and glass rear windows, covered with carpet on the inside, signwriting on the out side. No emarks visible, yet never an issue at test

Irishgoatman

Sorry, but it's not a question of "plastic windows", it's a question of that if the windows were to shatter the shards (if created) were not large enough to cause injury to anyone.

The only people who can vouch for this, as with car windows, are the manufactures. And even then they would have had to present their windows for checking before they had the OK to put a mark on them. Costly business.
Hence the safety mark that can be found on all car windows (for example).


Believe me when I say that I have looked at it from all angles because my camper really needs new windows,

brian29black

Hi All,

Well after a closer look we do indeed have the markings on the plastic windows in the corner very faded but you can make out the symbol so we should be ok , thanks for all the feedback and advice.

enda.casey

Hi Brian,

Can you tell me if you managed to get in contact with Knaus and did they supply you with a letter ? I have a Knaus traveller and brought it to the doe centre and due to the re stamping of my weight plate by Knaus at the factory the doe centre now require a letter from Knaus stating that the axles were upgraded at the factory during the build. Despite emails and some calls to Knaus I am not having much success and I would be interested in hearing your experiences.

Enda

iverjohnston

Sign shop could perhaps run off a set of the proper Knaus markings on a transparent backing? Especially if your own have faded beyond reading.

Or try a different test centre.

nailer8

Using the following stuff in the right order should get you out if you are still in trouble.
Not that i condone it!!!

-Camper with appropriate window markings
-SLR Camera (or any decent camera)
-Software to crop and mirror the image
-Clear laser printer address labels

Irishgoatman

Depending on how keen the tester is, the problem you might come accross is that on campers and caravans with double glazing the mark is, to the best of my knowledge, always on the inside of the outer pane.

iverjohnston

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Depending on how keen the tester is, the problem you might come accross is that on campers and caravans with double glazing the mark is, to the best of my knowledge, always on the inside of the outer pane.

That would fall under the heading of "extreme prejudice" not keenness!

My DOE centre told me where to get my window etched by an auto-glass professional and he'd also print a cert. to correspond with RSA requirements. They suggested that I bring my documentation with me for the emergency escape hatch I've installed as a side window.
I have a A4 page of safety standard acronyms but none of them match the RSA list :rolleyes:
They said this was the last year they'd pass my window with my documents alone. All they want is a british standard to tick a box, the mechanics know themselves whether it's a liability or not, as anyone would. I can pm the contact in a few weeks if I can find it (65% confidence ).

I'm just going to etch it myself one of these days.

iverjohnston

iverjohnston wrote: »

Or try a different test centre.

Don't think that works anymore, since the RSA took over, the fail is logged on a nationwide computer system. A new centre will have the fail notes from the previous centre.

nailer8

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Don't think that works anymore, since the RSA took over, the fail is logged on a nationwide computer system. A new centre will have the fail notes from the previous centre.

I can confirm that is 100% true.
Although it is still up to the tester to bother to read them.
I am sure most would though to cover themselves.

Stickers appear to be fitted into the middle of the double glazing normally but if they were put on the inside readable from the outside (i,e, mirrored), they should look fine.

paddyp

It you have access to a laser printer toner transfer might be feasible and look more authentic than stickers I've used it for facias and PCBs. Practice on an a bit of perspex I suppose. Was also thinking you can get rubber stamps made for about a tenner online a stamp with ink and MEK solvent might permanently mark it could be fiddly though.

http://www.electrobob.com/toner-transfer-to-abs/

Found that contact number.
PM for details.

Dublin based.

Irishgoatman

iverjohnston wrote: »

That would fall under the heading of "extreme prejudice" not keenness!

Not really. Something is either legit or it's not.

If it's noticeable from the outside that it's in the wrong place would you risk your job, in this day and age, and pass it?. I think not.

I'm not saying don't do it, that's not up to me, just be aware of what the tester will be looking for.

iverjohnston

OK, fair enough. The poster may end up sticking the van on ebay rather than fit all new windows.