Do you get annoyed when people say 'Eire'?

DECEiFER

ONeill2013 wrote: »

there's not much to see, there is some good historical spots around my area but the towns and cities look better in the republic from what i've seen

Ah, it's all the same island at the end of the day and the history of the two sections only diverged very late in the day, so it's all good. We also have plenty of lousy-looking towns down here, trust me on that.

MadsL

sesswhat wrote: »

Gringo?

Only Gringos call Gringos, Gringos.

Festy

Eire ? who's Eire ?

efb

Eire is the official name of our country, so no.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Yups, Moolly, Paison... Green boys, Micks. Four different races described in New York vernacular

Yups, white middle class, typically live in midtown. it's a shortened version of our term Yuppie.

Moolly, black Harlem.

Paison or guinea, Italian: Little Italy, Queens and Long Island.

Green boys/Micks: Hell's Kitchen, West side of Manhattan, Irish territory, the hottest place in hell.

sesswhat

MadsL wrote: »

Only Gringos call Gringos, Gringos.

In polite conversation at any rate, although the Brazilians use it freely, and without malice, for anyone who is not a local.

It has different meanings in different contexts and cultures of course (apparently used to refer specifically to the Irish in early 18th Century Madrid) so does not fit the bill to uniquely define someone from the US.

It is strange how the word American became a US monopoly, and how Canadians want to distance themselves from it while other Americans are rightly unhappy about it.

I imagine not everyone in the US would be happy with Yanks, the word I would tend to use myself.

USains maybe? (They'd probably try to claim the 100m record then though).

Getting back to Éire, it's beyond me why anyone would get annoyed, but then annoyance is a very personal thing.

LordSutch

DECEiFER wrote: »

... I am pretty sure the proud...shall we say...green population up north don't like it being referred to as "Northern Ireland" any more than we do "Southern Ireland." "The North of Ireland" or just "The North" is more acceptable for distinguishing between it and below the border.

"The North of Ireland" & "the North" are not proper terms though. Northern Ireland is the official term for that
part of this island, which is also part of the sterling zone within the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom of (GB&NI).

EIRE, or Southern Ireland, generally refer to the Republic of . . .

The J Stands for Jay

LordSutch wrote: »

Well yes indeed, specially if they are different jurisdictions with differing currencies.

Western England (& Wales) have the same currency as the rest of the UK.

Éire is further north than Northern Ireland.

Bank of England sterling banknotes are not legal tender in Scotland or Northern Ireland.

sesswhat

sesswhat wrote: »

In polite conversation at any rate, although the Brazilians use it freely, and without malice, for anyone who is not a local.

It has different meanings in different contexts and cultures of course (apparently used to refer specifically to the Irish in early 18th Century Madrid) so does not fit the bill to uniquely define someone from the US.

It is strange how the word American became a US monopoly, and how Canadians want to distance themselves from it while other Americans are rightly unhappy about it.

I imagine not everyone in the US would be happy with Yanks, the word I would tend to use myself.

USains maybe? (They'd probably try to claim the 100m record then though).

Getting back to Éire, it's beyond me why anyone would get annoyed, but then annoyance is a very personal thing.

American is used for people from the US because the name of the country is the United States of AMERICA. 'United Statesians' sounds ridiculous. I don't see what's so controversial about it, to be honest. No other country has 'America' in its name, does it?

Jimoslimos

Amari Flaky Rocker wrote: »

And if you think South Korea isn't written on official documents, then all the documents I've scanned in over the last while must all be fake. My flatmate's passport must be fake too, since it says she was born in 'South Korea'.

I think you're bullshítting here. There is nowhere on the Korean (RoK) passport that records place of birth.

Unless your flatmate is a naturalised citizen of another country whose passport she has. In that case place of birth will record country of birth, otherwise just the city of birth.

Jimoslimos

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I think you're bullshítting here. There is nowhere on the Korean (RoK) passport that records place of birth.

Unless your flatmate is a naturalised citizen of another country whose passport she has. In that case place of birth will record country of birth, otherwise just the city of birth.

Perhaps you should have read my post more carefully. Korean passports don't record place of birth, but EU (and probably other) passports for people born in Korea do.

Jimoslimos

Amari Flaky Rocker wrote: »

Perhaps you should have read my post more carefully. Korean passports don't record place of birth, but EU (and probably other) passports for people born in Korea do.

And perhaps you should have read mine too. In any case you didn't specify it was an EU passport, which doesn't bear any relevance to what people in Korea call themselves - rather what option is available in the drop-down menu to the clerk in the passport office.

mike65

McGaggs wrote: »

Bank of England sterling banknotes are not legal tender in Scotland or Northern Ireland.

Its the other way round! Scottish notes are not technically legal tender currency (even in Scotland and Norn Iron) - rather they are promissory notes. Which means people who head south with them can find they are refused when offered.

sesswhat

Amari Flaky Rocker wrote: »

American is used for people from the US because the name of the country is the United States of AMERICA. 'United Statesians' sounds ridiculous. I don't see what's so controversial about it, to be honest. No other country has 'America' in its name, does it?

A collection of states aligning themselves into a political union and calling themselves the United States of America does not exclude other states in North or South America from being called American.

You say Brazilians are angry because "they think they are American too". Are you saying they are not?

Are those in Switzerland no longer European now that a group of other European states call themselves the European Union?

Peregrine

Southern Ireland is what pisses me off too.

Éire is unnecessarily PC and sounds a bit weird but it shouldn't annoy people.

nicholasn7322

I always taught the problem with British people using Eire is because they are using a language that they actively tried to destroy.
Republic of Ireland does my head in...the country is called Ireland or Eire and it is a Republic....France is also a republic but nobody goes around calling it the Republic of France!

DEFTLEFTHAND

nicholasn7322 wrote: »

I always taught the problem with British people using Eire is because they are using a language that they actively tried to destroy.
Republic of Ireland does my head in...the country is called Ireland or Eire and it is a Republic....France is also a republic but nobody goes around calling it the Republic of France!

Northern Ireland is also a state on this island.

ROI is only used to differentiate between the two.

Peregrine

nicholasn7322 wrote: »

I always taught the problem with British people using Eire is because they are using a language that they actively tried to destroy.
Republic of Ireland does my head in...the country is called Ireland or Eire and it is a Republic....France is also a republic but nobody goes around calling it the Republic of France!

Because there is no need to call France anything else, it's just France. But unlike France there's a Northern Ireland and the republic. The two states and the island itself has to be distinguished by name.

The official name for France is "French Republic" as the description for Éire is "Republic of Ireland"

If there was a separate country within the French region called..let's say "Northern France" I don't doubt that the South would be called "French Republic" to distinguish it.

Mr Benevolent

Only English people say 'Eire'. Everyone else knows better.

wendell borton

Eire what about it?

Jimoslimos

Jimoslimos wrote: »

And perhaps you should have read mine too. In any case you didn't specify it was an EU passport, which doesn't bear any relevance to what people in Korea call themselves - rather what option is available in the drop-down menu to the clerk in the passport office.

Yes, I did. I said it was a French passport. If South Korea isn't an internationally accepted name for the country, why is it on any drop-down menu? Why are the officially translated documents provided by South Korean universities and other institutions full of references to South Korea?

I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to argue about this. If you can't see the massive difference between 'South Korea' (very common name for the country, used by its own citizens and on official documents) and 'Southern Ireland' (not used by any citizens, not on any documentation, only used by confused people who don't really understand Ireland), I don't know what more to say.

Another one of the obvious issues with the term 'Southern Ireland' is that the northernmost point of the island of Ireland is in the Republic. It makes no sense. Ireland isn't divided pretty much in half the way Korea is. I've had loads of English people who have looked at a map of Ireland say things like 'hah! Typical silly paddies! Why do they call it Southern Ireland when some of it's in the north? Haha, that's so Irish!' To which I respond, 'we don't call it Southern Ireland. You do.' Their face is always priceless.

sesswhat wrote: »

A collection of states aligning themselves into a political union and calling themselves the United States of America does not exclude other states in North or South America from being called American.

You say Brazilians are angry because "they think they are American too". Are you saying they are not?

Are those in Switzerland no longer European now that a group of other European states call themselves the European Union?

I have no problem with a Brazilian considering themselves American, I do have a bit of an issue with me not being 'allowed' to use 'American' to refer to a citizen of the United States when there's no other adjective which serves that purpose. American as an adjective to describe someone born on that continent is one thing. American as a nationality is another thing. They just happen to be the same word in English. I'm not being politically incorrect or wrong by using 'American' for US citizens because no other recognised term exists.

Your example about Switzerland is silly and not at all comparable. The EU is not an official country with 'European' used as an official adjective for nationality.

Míshásta

I get annoyed with the fact that people get annoyed about other people getting annoyed about British people not using the correct term for referring to our country or the various jurisdictions on the island when we ourselves cannot agree upon the correct terms ourselves.

I'm confused. @#?>!!

If there's no offence intended I don't care.

I can't see how we should be expecting you ordinary Brit to be knowledgeable about the síneadh fada. We don't use foreign letters when using foreign names we just used the nearest standard letter from the English alphabet. If they spell it "Eire" instead of "Éire" it's no big deal. However when I see official signs in Irish spelt incorrectly - well sin scéal eile.

I'm from the People's Republic of Cork but I'd don't get annoyed when people tell me I'm from Ireland

And as for those cheeky cockneys who ask "are you from Cock" ..................

Jimoslimos

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Northern Ireland is also a state on this island.

ROI is only used to differentiate between the two.

Why? There is no need. Northern Ireland already has a name that distinguishes it from Ireland.

One of the newest nations recently formed is South Sudan. I don't think everybody will start referring to Sudan as "North Sudan" to distinguish between the two.

Jimoslimos

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Why? There is no need. Northern Ireland already has a name that distinguishes it from Ireland.

One of the newest nations recently formed is South Sudan. I don't think everybody will start referring to Sudan as "North Sudan" to distinguish between the two.

I agree, but you have to acknowledge the fact that a lot of people from Northern Ireland also call themselves 'Irish' and say they're from 'Ireland'. So I don't find it odd when people ask 'Northern Ireland or the Republic?'

Peregrine

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Why? There is no need. Northern Ireland already has a name that distinguishes it from Ireland.

One of the newest nations recently formed is South Sudan. I don't think everybody will start referring to Sudan as "North Sudan" to distinguish between the two.

Yes but our island is also called "Ireland" and the 6 counties in the North is called "Northern Ireland" so how can the rest call themselves "Ireland"?

How do you distinguish Ireland from Ireland?

Jimoslimos wrote: »

One of the newest nations recently formed is South Sudan. I don't think everybody will start referring to Sudan as "North Sudan" to distinguish between the two.

You don't? Give it a few years

DEFTLEFTHAND

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Why? There is no need. Northern Ireland already has a name that distinguishes it from Ireland.

One of the newest nations recently formed is South Sudan. I don't think everybody will start referring to Sudan as "North Sudan" to distinguish between the two.

There is a need to explain the difference, the rest of the world think that the ROI is part of the UK, I know it's a futile exercise, because they don't really care anyway, put we should try and put them right.

ONeill2013

This reminds me off hearing an English teen ask if Dublin was in Northern Ireland or 'ordinary Ireland'
I always remember my geography teacher tell a story about a friend of his who worked in Belfast, the geography class were going on a field trip to somewhere else in Northern Ireland, the children kept asking 'when do we leave Northern Ireland?' they thought that Belfast was all there was of Northern Ireland.

Seaneh

Éire is the official name of the state.

It's the primary name on our passports, drivers licenses, government documents, official forms, currency, stamps and so on.

It's not really that weird that people would use Éire instead of Ireland.


I'd much rather they call it Éire than "The Republic of Ireland" or "The Irish Republic", which are often used and are not the name of the country.

Miss Lockhart

Seaneh wrote: »

Éire is the official name of the state.

It's the primary name on our passports, drivers licenses, government documents, official forms, currency, stamps and so on.

It's not really that weird that people would use Éire instead of Ireland.
.

Yes it is. These people don't talk about their honeymoon in Espana or their trip to Deutschland. Unless they're pompous posers.

Solair

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Yes it is. These people don't talk about their honeymoon in Espana or their trip to Deutschland. Unless they're pompous posers.

Even worse : people who pronounce France as Froaahnce in English and who aren't French-speakers!

Richard

The other names are used to distinguish between the state and the island. That's why the name "Republic of Ireland" is used in UK law. If the government based in Dublin had chosen another name for the part of Ireland which they govern, then the issue wouldn't have arisen.

An Coilean

kneemos wrote: »

Always thought Eire meant the republic.

Nope, 'eire' actually means burden, 'Éire' on the other hand means Ireland.

Fadas are important

The difference between 'caca milis' and 'cáca milis' is the difirence between sweet cake and sweet shít.

sesswhat

An Coilean wrote: »

Nope, 'eire' actually means burden, 'Éire' on the other hand means Ireland.

Fadas are important

The difference between 'caca milis' and 'cáca milis' is the difirence between sweet cake and sweet shít.

Fs are important too

Richard

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Why? There is no need. Northern Ireland already has a name that distinguishes it from Ireland.

One of the newest nations recently formed is South Sudan. I don't think everybody will start referring to Sudan as "North Sudan" to distinguish between the two.

The difference there is that there isn't an island called Sudan containing two states, one of which is called Sudan.

mathepac

Richard wrote: »

... If the government based in Dublin had chosen another name for the part of Ireland which they govern, then the issue wouldn't have arisen.

If Lloyd George & Co hadn't imposed partition on us as their parting shot we wouldn't have the problem either.

BTW, it's news to me that one state can arbitrarily decide what to call another. We have the name of our state enshrined in our written constitution; it's unchangeable unless we the people vote for constitutional change.

Richard

mathepac wrote: »

If Lloyd George & Co hadn't imposed partition on us as their parting shot we wouldn't have the problem either.

It wasn't a parting shot, it was designed (however imperfectly) to address the varying allegiances within Ireland.

BTW, it's news to me that one state can arbitrarily decide what to call another. We have the name of our state enshrined in our written constitution; it's unchangeable unless we the people vote for constitutional change.

It happens all the time. Consider "Cote D'Ivoire" or Macedonia (Former Yugoslav Republic Of).

As for whether the name is "Republic of Ireland" or not, it isn't exactly clear in the constitution.

An analogous situation would be if Northern Ireland has been renamed "Ulster" as was proposed in 1949 iirc.

The_Hustler

It's probably been said but Southern Ireland is the description that annoys me. It suggests the island is split 50/50. There are 26 counties in a lot of different compass directions

mathepac

Richard wrote: »

It wasn't a parting shot, it was designed (however imperfectly) to address the varying allegiances within Ireland...

Not at all. He wanted to retain the northern ports and ship-building capability for HM Gov.

Richard wrote: »

... As for whether the name is "Republic of Ireland" or not, it isn't exactly clear in the constitution...

It's crystal clear. Article 4 is unequivocal. "The name of the State is Eire, or, in the English language, Ireland" That is all Article 4 has to say.

I read it out to Shep, who is not the cleverest of gold-fish, but he nodded in agreement as to clarity, unequivocation and simplicity.

Check here for yourself if you need to. Shep trusts me.

ted1

The_Hustler wrote: »

It's probably been said but Southern Ireland is the description that annoys me. It suggests the island is split 50/50. There are 26 counties in a lot of different compass directions

I always what happens the eastern and western counties and then there is poor Donegal and Leitrim in the north

Solair

I remember I got a package which had been sent from an American publisher who had gotten my address from a British retailer.

Mr ..... .......
.... ...... .....
Dawbin
Aero
United Kingdom

Thankfully it was tracked down and got to me when the courier in England who was trying to figure it out called my phone number to figure out what the address was supposed to be.

Just shows how things can get lost in translation in the same language sometimes.

Richard

mathepac wrote: »

Not at all. He wanted to retain the northern ports and ship-building capability for HM Gov.
It's crystal clear.

If it was just the ports they would have retained those as elsewhere. A million Unionists was a more pressing concern.

Article 4 is unequivocal. "The name of the State is Eire, or, in the English language, Ireland" That is all Article 4 has to say.

Exactly. "The name of the state is Eire". It doesn't say it's "Eire" in Irish. It does make it clear that "Ireland" is English for "Eire". At least that's one interpretation. Hence, it's open to interpretation.

I suspect the lack of clarity is deliberate, given that the government desired a united Ireland.

I read it out to Shep, who is not the cleverest of gold-fish, but he nodded in agreement as to clarity, unequivocation and simplicity.

If you're talking constitutional politics to your goldfish it says more about you than me.

mathepac

Richard wrote: »

... Exactly. "The name of the state is Eire". It doesn't say it's "Eire" in Irish. It does make it clear that "Ireland" is English for "Eire". ,,.

But the official first language of the State is Gaeilge (Irish) which trumps the English translation anyhow. I posted the English translation of Article 4 here in defference to those who might not have the "cupla focail". So the name of the State is Eire or Ireland in English. Shep is bilingual BTW.

Beefy78

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I don't get annoyed but I think the people who do it are morons. I file them along with the pretentious idiots who brag about their weekend in "Paree".

It's not about being morons or being pretentious. I suspect that most usage of the name is a mis-placed attempt to not offend Irish people by people of a certain age (mid 30s to mid 40s).

For a time 'Eire'(sp) was often used as a name for the country of Ireland in the British media, especially the BBC. I certainly remember frequent use of that name during the 1990 World Cup and that's where I first heard it. At the time there were lots of stories about people over here being pissed off with the use of the name 'Republic of Ireland' (and I've read on threads on here stories of letters from Britain addressed to 'Republic of Ireland' not being delivered although this may have been a couple of decades earlier) so a name was wanted to differentiate between the North and the Republic.

I really doubt that it is intended to offend.

asdfg!

When I was a kid I proudly wrote Eire with or without a fada in my schoolbooks and when I sent away to England for something I gave my address as Eire.

Meanwhile it's all over the stamps, the passport and every official document issued by the government. But now I'm supposed to be offended if someone referred to this country as Eire and call them morons?

Who is the moron here?

Look lets get over it, we're the only people who give a damm about it. Really if we spent less time on BS like, looking to be offended by innocent Brits who are trying not to offend us most of the time by referring to this country by it's official name and spent more time sorting out the shambles that this country is in. We would be all better off. We're a nothing island off the west coast of Europe. Get some perspective for heaven's sake.

I get annoyed by people getting annoyed by this nonsense.

Jimoslimos

Not sure if it has been mentioned but another reason for the reticence on the part of the British for using the term "Ireland" was because of this country's constitutional claim to the 6 counties up north (since removed after the GFA). The use of "Ireland" to describe the republic could be seen as tacit acknowledgement of that claim.

dr gonzo

Only time I've heard it said to me was from an English fella. I'd normally have no problem with it (its our own word after all) but it jarred when this particular guy said it because I know he'd be extremely conservative and therefore I got the impression that he didnt say it to be quirky.

daheff

what annoys me more is the way people (Especially on sky news) say Iland instead of IRE-land

Damn it -we're and Island full of IRE....not just and I-land :mad:

LowKeyReturn

It moved into semi-common parlance in the UK because the UK did not recognise Ireland as the name for what was previously the Irish Free State. At least Èire is the name of the state in one language where as the Republic or Ireland is a football team. Similarly Southern Ireland also has, historically, negative connotations.

So long as people don't stand there referring to the UK as the mainland I can't say as it bothers me much personally.

You be suprised the amnount of Brits that don;t even know its a separate country so Èire is doing well! :pac:

Richard

daheff wrote: »

what annoys me more is the way people (Especially on sky news) say Iland instead of IRE-land

Damn it -we're and Island full of IRE....not just and I-land :mad:

But most English people's accents don't pronounce the r sound when it occurs at the end of a syllabul, so that is normal.

RossyG

nicholasn7322 wrote: »

I always taught the problem with British people using Eire is because they are using a language that they actively tried to destroy.

No living British person has tried any such thing.

When I was a kid in Britain - so late 70's/80's - it was quite common for the ROI to be referred to as Eire. It was done primarily to differentiate it from Northern Ireland. It wasn't condescending or insulting; it's what people thought the country was called by its own citizens.

The term seems to have largely died out now. You're more likely to hear just "Ireland", "Southern Ireland", "the Republic of Ireland" "the Irish Republic" or even "proper Ireland".