Disgusting attitude to larger ladies from A&F Ceo

jc84

Maybe if more clothing companies followed suit it might incentivise weight loss for people who are grossly overweight

KCC

Andy Slow Gang wrote: »

Nonsense, if there XXL isn't fitting you its time to lay of the steroids. I have seen plenty of muscular people wearing there clothes, even the people working in the shop are usually fairly big (in the athletic sense)

.

Sorry, but that's not been my experience. Their clothes are built for teenagers. My husband is 6 foot 3, broad shouldered with not an inch of fat, does not take steroids and he wasn't even able to get the XXL over his head!

thebigredone

discus wrote: »

Give some solid examples of these illnesses, please.

Cushings syndrome, if you’re taking birth control pills, excess hormones for hormone therapy, steroids, beta-blockers for heart disease and blood pressure, anti-seizure meds, breast cancer medications, some treatments for rheumatoid arthritis, some migraine and heartburn medications, hyperthyroidism, depression.....

I'm not arguing the fact that there's lazy overeaters, im saying there's more than just lazy overeaters!

JohnMarston

Disgusting attitude to larger ladies from A&F Ceo

I'm fairly certain A&F's policy of not stocking larger clothes affects both sexes.

ash23

discus wrote: »

Give some solid examples of these illnesses, please.

Any illness that reduces mobility, causes pain or causes fatigue.
Any illness that requires a medication which has a side effect of weight gain or fatigue.
There are more than enough examples on the long term illness board. Take a wander over and educate yourself as to what people are actually dealing with on a day by day basis.

ash23

JohnMarston wrote: »

I'm fairly certain A&F's policy of not stocking larger clothes affects both sexes.

As per OP they stock larger mens sizes.....

thebigredone

lkionm wrote: »

We have high horses for everyone around here

I'd rather be on a high horse than on all fours underneath it!

discus

ash23 wrote: »

Any illness that reduces mobility, causes pain or causes fatigue.
Any illness that requires a medication which has a side effect of weight gain or fatigue.
There are more than enough examples on the long term illness board. Take a wander over and educate yourself as to what people are actually dealing with on a day by day basis.

I'm not talking about people with genuine illnesses.

H3llR4iser

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

It's also worth mentioning that advertising of the ideal is a lot more aggressive here than home. Most women I've met talk about the obessions with the body beautiful here. I've never seen so many "clinicas aestheticas" in one space in all my life. Same goes for men here.

`

Mediterranean culture, it's the same in France, Italy, Greece and so on. It also needs to be said that the amount of too fat/too skinny people you see around may depend greatly on the physical location within the country; I'm not sure about Spain, but for example in Italy it's far easier to find overweight and obese people in the south rather than the north, for a number of concurring social, cultural and logistic reasons.

Therefore, you'd be very likely to see more thin or "too thin" people, especially women, in Milan or even Rome, and heavier or sometimes obese people in Naples or Palermo.

If one thinks about it, it happens even here - in my experience you see more overweight and even downright obese people around in Cork than Dublin, mostly I would expect due to the poorer public transport network and over reliance on cars.

Although I absolutely acknowledge that obesity is an issue, nasty advertising like this is not the way to solve it and could go the other extreme like here.

I could not agree more on this; However, the total lack of such pressure is also a huge problem: almost all of the morbidly overweight people I know here (and they're a handful) simply would do nothing about it unless they get a big medical scare (happened to a workmate). Equally, somebody putting up weight would snap fiercely at a friend or relative pointing it out; Icing on the cake, some Irish people still seem to consider carrying around excess fat to be a sign of health...

JohnMarston

ash23 wrote: »

As per OP they stock larger mens sizes.....

Ah i saw it now.
Was confused when i saw the quote "US clothing brand Abercrombie & Fitch has been accused of sizest attitudes - with claims that it doesn't want plus size people wearing its clothes."

ash23

discus wrote: »

A lady (or girl? woman? your choice!) with MS makes a conscious effort to watch what she eats.

Then on the other hand, there are people who don't have illnesses and hospital visits to deal with, and they balloon up through sheer laziness and no self respect.

discus wrote: »

I'm not talking about people with genuine illnesses.

But looking at me you and your ilk see a fat bird. Ye don't really care that I have MS or need steroids. I watch what I eat for my health because I don't want to balloon and reduce my mobility further.
I don't do it so I can fit into an A&F hoodie.

The point is that looking at a fat person and thinking "lazy lard arse who eats lots of cake" is doing a great disservice to the many people who fight it every single day. And from looking at someone, you can't tell which is which.

So when I get comments of "fatso" from w*nkers in pubs who are showing off to their mates, I don't feel like having to justify myself, my illness or my weight to them.

1ZRed

JohnMarston wrote: »

I'm fairly certain A&F's policy of not stocking larger clothes affects both sexes.

ash23 wrote: »

As per OP they stock larger mens sizes.....

A&F also have all their clothing geared towards muscular men. It's in all their ad campaigns. They also have larger sizes but are fitted for athletic and muscular men, not very overweight men which would not fit them properly.

Do you hear us men causing a storm with these unrealistic images of very muscular men with crazy low body fat counts in the media?

ash23

1ZRed wrote: »

A&F also have all their clothing geared towards muscular men. It's in all their ad campaigns. They also have larger sizes but are fitted for athletic and muscular men, not very overweight men which would not fit them properly.

Do you hear us men causing a storm with these unrealistic images of very muscular men with crazy low body fat counts in the media?

And women can't be muscular or athletic?
Point being, not every man who needs a larger size is a muscle bound hunk. And not every woman who needs a larger size is fat.
Ergo, double standards.

Legs.Eleven

jc84 wrote: »

Maybe if more clothing companies followed suit it might incentivise weight loss for people who are grossly overweight

Yes because people are only large because they can find clothes in that size.

Legs.Eleven

1ZRed wrote: »

A&F also have all their clothing geared towards muscular men. It's in all their ad campaigns. They also have larger sizes but are fitted for athletic and muscular men, not very overweight men which would not fit them properly.

Do you hear us men causing a storm with these unrealistic images of very muscular men with crazy low body fat counts in the media?

I do yeah. And so they should

Penny Dreadful

Zebra3 wrote: »

And how many obese women do you see for each anorexic one?

^^ this. The fear of a teenage girl becoming anorexic sends panic through so many people and yet there is a far greater problem with obesity. After all the WHO, medical professionals, even shops that stock school uniforms are all telling us that we are in the middle of an obesity epidemic NOT an anorexia epidemic.

Legs.Eleven

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I do yeah. And so they should

I have never heard men complain about such things in person or in the media, and rightly so.

Legs.Eleven

Mediterranean culture, it's the same in France, Italy, Greece and so on. It also needs to be said that the amount of too fat/too skinny people you see around may depend greatly on the physical location within the country; I'm not sure about Spain, but for example in Italy it's far easier to find overweight and obese people in the south rather than the north, for a number of concurring social, cultural and logistic reasons.

Yes I agree. I did mention Madrid specifically in my first post though, not Spain as it's where I live.

I could not agree more on this; However, the total lack of such pressure is also a huge problem: almost all of the morbidly overweight people I know here (and they're a handful) simply would do nothing about it unless they get a big medical scare (happened to a workmate). Equally, somebody putting up weight would snap fiercely at a friend or relative pointing it out; Icing on the cake, some Irish people still seem to consider carrying around excess fat to be a sign of health..

I see what you're saying but I don't think your man's comments are the way to go about it and I don't think it'll have any impact. It seems to have pissed people off instead. I'm not overweight but I can imagine if I was, I'd be peed off more than anything to be yet again treated like I've no feelings or am something to be ridiculed for the millionth time. It's horrible treatment of anyone and completely undeserving.

Legs.Eleven

Andy Slow Gang wrote: »

I have never heard men complain about such things in person or in the media, and rightly so.

I have.

1ZRed

ash23 wrote: »

And women can't be muscular or athletic?
Point being, not every man who needs a larger size is a muscle bound hunk. And not every woman who needs a larger size is fat.
Ergo, double standards.

What double standards? If anything women are saying they can't get bigger sizes while men sizes do go up, but they are a muscular fit which is tight, so in reality the larger sizes for men aren't all that large in reality either.
They're talking about media wanting women to be thin while we are supposed to be very muscular and fit. I don't see the double standard there, maybe it's just men that care less about it.

The A&F sizes go up to size 14 isn't it? That sounds quite reasonable to me. What would yo like, up to size 20? That isn't what the brand wants, and to be perfectly honest it is overweight.
I know it's a delicate subject, understandably so, but if A&F don't want that then it's their choice, as said before there's plenty other brand that will accommodate those sizes. I just don't like this growing mentality that obesity or being overweight sizes should always be accommodated. That just normalises it and doesn't press people to lose weight and be healthier.

EazyD

He looks like Barbies Ken, only microwaved on full blast, hence the melty face.

cson

Didn't he say this years ago?

Fwiw; (a) Nobody forces you to buy their clothes (b) I can't understand how the same stigma that is attached to say alcoholism isn't attached to obesity; they're both a result of substance abusing when you break it down.

1ZRed

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I do yeah. And so they should

Why? Should we all hang around being lazy and overweight?

I think we should be geared towards being more healthy and getting good exercise. I think expecting every lad to need a body like that is unrealistic but if you work to at being healthier and you're more on that side of things than the opposite which is being overweight, then how is that a bad thing?

Legs.Eleven

1ZRed wrote: »

Why? Should we all hang around being lazy and overweight?

I think we should be geared towards being more healthy and getting good exercise. I think expecting every lad to need a body like that is unrealistic but if you work to at being healthier and you're more on that side of things than the opposite which is being overweight, then how is that a bad thing?

Course we shouldn't but those of us who are healthy shouldn't be made feel like we're not for being less than perfect (because this is the reality). Not everyone is as confident as you and I. The ideal they set is unattainable and false.


These tactics do not work. Show me evidence it does and see if I can be convinced.

hatrickpatrick

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I do yeah. And so they should

I'll cause a bit of controversy here and say that instead of resenting images of bodybuilder lads as the kind of lads girls go nuts for, I just take inspiration from it and aim to get there myself through my own bodybuilding regime.

Now of course, the two obviously aren't comparable because there aren't any real health problems associated with getting too muscular, but there obviously are health problems associated with getting too skinny. So it's not really a problem for me that I see girls cooing over pics of lads with six packs and biceps since that's an attainable goal for any guy with a bit of resolve and enough spare time to lift, and there are comparably minuscule negative effects of aiming for that goal, with the possible exception of overtraining or pulling muscles from trying to lift too heavy, which I'll admit has happened to me occasionally but I've since learned my lesson big time, the pain of doing your back in from benching too heavy is a far more acute and immediate kick up the ass than the effects of malnourishment which take a while to kick you

Point is, I honestly don't think lads have quite as much to object to, since the mainstream's idea of an "ideal" muscularity for lads generally isn't all that ridiculous and crucially, trying to achieve it won't bring on health risks like trying to become a stick insect will. The other aspect is that lads are only sold the idea of being ripped in the context of being attractive to girls - whereas, as this A&F thins illustrates, girls are sold the idea of being skinny as being all important in every social context. Lads aren't told "if you're not ripped, you have no hope in life", just "if you get ripped you'll have an easier time with the ladies". So I don't think one can really say they're the same thing. The really moronic thing about all this is that anecdotally from Facebook and elsewhere, the majority of girls do indeed seem to actually go in for lads who are fairly ripped or at the very least defined, while it's becoming obvious that most lads don't actually go in for the uber skinny at all. I for one don't find it the least bit attractive, nothing is a bigger turnoff than a xylophone! So I do find it bizarre that the media's image of an attractive guy seems to generally match reality in terms of what girls find hot, but the media's image of an attractive girl is way, way off. I can't think of a single guy I know who finds that whole skin and bones look appealing. So where the hell does the media get its standards from?

ash23

1ZRed wrote: »

What double standards? If anything women are saying they can't get bigger sizes while men sizes do go up, but they are a muscular fit which is tight, so in reality the larger sizes for men aren't all that large in reality either.
They're talking about media wanting women to be thin while we are supposed to be very muscular and fit. I don't see the double standard there, maybe it's just men that care less about it.

The A&F sizes go up to size 14 isn't it? That sounds quite reasonable to me. What would yo like, up to size 20? That isn't what the brand wants, and to be perfectly honest it is overweight.
I know it's a delicate subject, understandably so, but if A&F don't want that then it's their choice, as said before there's plenty other brand that will accommodate those sizes. I just don't like this growing mentality that obesity or being overweight sizes should always be accommodated. That just normalises it and doesn't press people to lose weight and be healthier.

Womens size L is smaller than a mans L.
So why will they do a size XXL in a mans hoodie but not in a womans?

A fat bloke could wear an XXL hoodie from A&F as easily as a fit muscle bound guy.
A woman who is tall and athletic or a body builder can't shop there.

They will provide an XXL for a man because he might be all muscle. But they are assuming a woman who is bigger than a size L is fat.

If they were only doing up to an L in mens and womens, fine (bearing in mind womens sizes are smaller anyway so it's relative). But it's the assumption that larger women = fat women but larger men = athletic men that grates on me.

Remmy

fatties gonna fat

EazyD

Big Bottom wrote: »

'Acceptable'? I'm size 14 and I accept myself for who I am rather than comparing myself to twig creatures.

Twig creatures? Can you not see the tremendous level of hypocrisy in your posts? Works both ways

reach for the stars

Hesitant to add here but as i see it society has alot of double standards ,why is ok for a shop to proudly say we specialise in clothes for the larger lady and not a word about it ,but when its the reverse all hell breaks loose should it not be live and let live.

Obviously the clothes aren't aimed at fat people therefore fat people shouldn't go there. Go somewhere else.

Simple.

It's like complaining that you can't get meat at a vegetarian restaurant.

1ZRed

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Course we shouldn't but those of us who are healthy shouldn't be made feel like we're not for being less than perfect (because this is the reality). Not everyone is as confident as you and I. The ideal they set is unattainable and false.


These tactics do not work. Show me evidence it does and see if I can be convinced.

So what is healthy and not being able to fit into their sizes? You could be fairly healthy and a size 20 but that weight still isn't healthy whatever way you look at it.

I'd love to know how lowering the standard to say anyone of any size obese or not is somehow magically better. It's only normalising obesity and being overweight.

The amount of lads I've met who thought average weight for a 5'10 man is 14 stone (196lbs) is crazy. It's obese. I'm 6ft, 183lbs and decently muscular (no abercrombie model) so you get a comparison.
Do you think it's better that they think that unhealthy weight is average weight?

I fail to see how these standards unattainable. They did it? Just sounds like laziness to me. It's extremely easy to laze around eating and becoming overweight but it is very difficult to stay fit and to get up and do it. Why should the standard drop just because some people are unwilling to look after themselves and then moan that the media are projecting unrealistic images.

Those targets are high but not everyone is expecting to hit them. I think you should get inspiration and motivation from these images to better yourself, if you feel you need to or if it's what you want. Think positively about them.

Even if you're moving forward and making progress in that direction I think that's a great thing and should be very happy in yourself for doing it. You may never get a body like those models but what do you care of you're working towards it, you're still going to reap the benefits of it and feel far better in yourself for it. I think that's fantastic thing to achieve.

There's no point crying about wanting a body like that yet being unwilling to actually do anything to make that happen. I think that's happening more and more these days. People complaining about these images reminding them they're doing nothing so instead of tackling the problem they'd rather block it out.

I get bombarded just as much as women do about my body needing to look a certain way but I take motivation from that instead of complaining about it. Give yourself a target and be happy with the progress you make in working towards it. Realistically, you mightn't quite get there but still it's a fantastic effort to undertake. That's the way I choose to look at it and to put a positive spin on it.

Shenshen

reach for the stars wrote: »

Hesitant to add here but as i see it society has alot of double standards ,why is ok for a shop to proudly say we specialise in clothes for the larger lady and not a word about it ,but when its the reverse all hell breaks loose should it not be live and let live.

I think it's not so much the fact that this particular brand doesn't do sizes over 14 - I do believe a lot of fashion brands actually do that.

I think the outrage comes in when the CEO declares that they don't want to see "large people" in their shops, but only "beautiful people".


Imagine the outcry if Evans announce tomorrow they don't want to see any annorexic stick people in their shop... it would be quite similar, and rightly so.
No shop has to cater to people they don't want to cater for, but it's another thing altogether to publicly insult them.

reach for the stars

Shenshen wrote: »

I think it's not so much the fact that this particular brand doesn't do sizes over 14 - I do believe a lot of fashion brands actually do that.

I think the outrage comes in when the CEO declares that they don't want to see "large people" in their shops, but only "beautiful people".


Imagine the outcry if Evans announce tomorrow they don't want to see any annorexic stick people in their shop... it would be quite similar, and rightly so.
No shop has to cater to people they don't want to cater for, but it's another thing altogether to publicly insult them.

Ok i get it now ,Bit over the top alright,

1ZRed

ash23 wrote: »

Womens size L is smaller than a mans L.
So why will they do a size XXL in a mans hoodie but not in a womans?

A fat bloke could wear an XXL hoodie from A&F as easily as a fit muscle bound guy.
A woman who is tall and athletic or a body builder can't shop there.

They will provide an XXL for a man because he might be all muscle. But they are assuming a woman who is bigger than a size L is fat.

If they were only doing up to an L in mens and womens, fine (bearing in mind womens sizes are smaller anyway so it's relative). But it's the assumption that larger women = fat women but larger men = athletic men that grates on me.

Men's sizing go up that large because their brand caters towards muscular men. Men can also be very tall and broad and could easily be very muscular and 6'4 or far taller. So if they sell a hoodie that can fit a big muscular man who's 6'6, of course it's going to fit an obese man who's 6ft.

It's not actually abercrombie looking out for overweight/obese men it's actually them trying to accommodate larger muscular men -that's their target audience. It's only by coincidence that more overweight men can get larger sizes to fit them.

Women by far do not get as tall and as broad and they don't have the same extreme height variation that men do to get these larger sizes.

If you are a woman and are a bodybuilder, A&F won't facilitate you. There's nothing wrong with that, it's a far more niche area for a woman than a man so they mightn't want to do it. That's perfectly fine, there are plenty of other brands that would.

They are about their image. They want their particular look and if they feel certain sizes with compromise the value of their brand image then they won't do it. There's nothing wrong with that either, it's their brand.

smash

Shenshen wrote: »

I think the outrage comes in when the CEO declares that they don't want to see "large people" in their shops, but only "beautiful people".

I don't see the issue here. You wouldn't see playboy doing an obese issue!

thebigredone

He also said they target 'cool', and 'beautiful' people, and want to deliberately exclude others! Which isn't very nice at all!

Eoin

Shenshen wrote: »

Imagine the outcry if Evans announce tomorrow they don't want to see any annorexic stick people in their shop... it would be quite similar, and rightly so.

No, I think there would be the complete opposite reaction. They'd be congratulated for catering for "real" and "curvy" women. It seems that it's not as big a no-no to say that being too skinny is unhealthy.

opinion guy

Thread about store only for attractive people???

***paging EdenHazard, paging EdenHazard***

Shenshen

smash wrote: »

I don't see the issue here. You wouldn't see playboy doing an obese issue!

If I wasn't in work right now, I think I might well be able to prove you wrong there :P

thebigredone

Shenshen wrote: »

If I wasn't in work right now, I think I might well be able to prove you wrong there :P

Was only a matter of time!!!

Shenshen

Eoin wrote: »

No, I think there would be the complete opposite reaction. They'd be congratulated for catering for "real" and "curvy" women. It seems that it's not as big a no-no to say that being too skinny is unhealthy.

I never thought it was a big no-no to tell obese people how unhealthy they are.

Plenty of people have done so in this thread, and I've been told this on the street by complete strangers, at home by my father ("fat bitch" I think were the words employed there), at school by teachers who would use me as an example to the class, in the gym by other members complaining to each other about how awful it was to have to see fat people working out.

There is no shortage of helpful individuals who will happily go out of their way to brighten up a fat person's day by telling them how unhealthy they are, how they should if possible not inflict their sight on anyone, how they are nothing but lazy and uncontrolled eating machines.

And I personally would complain about and to Evans if they ever dared declaring people of any size at all "not beautiful" enough to be allowed in their shops.

smash

Shenshen wrote: »

If I wasn't in work right now, I think I might well be able to prove you wrong there :P

Do not want link...

Cliona99

This thread has actually been quite thought-provoking. (not what I'd expect from AH to be honest)

If I could have any body in the world it'd be Robyn Lawley's. Worth a google. She's a size 16, so now I'm wondering if it's because I've been conditioned to find fat people normal, not to mention sexy.

But when I see a picture like this
http://4futuremodels.blogspot.ie/2011/07/plus-size-models-new-face-of-modelling.html
which disturbingly popped up under 'plus size models' it makes me feel a bit sick and sorry for her.

So I don't even know what to think any more.

smash

Cliona99 wrote: »

If I could have any body in the world it'd be Robyn Lawley's. Worth a google. She's a size 16, so now I'm wondering if it's because I've been conditioned to find fat people normal, not to mention sexy.

If you're looking for curves would you not want someone like Kelly Brooke who has curves, but is toned?

Leftist

if you're fat then try to exercise and diet, you'll never chance people's opinion on your excess weight just by asking them to be nice.

I, for one, will now make an effort to shop at A&F. Fat should not be encouraged.

GalwayGuy2

I, for one, will now make an effort to shop at A&F. Fat should not be encouraged.

Bit masochistic? :pac:

But, tbh, they're encouraging exclusion, not having a healthy lifestyle.

darkhorse

gctest50 wrote: »

Dunno ? i wouldn't throw Erika Elfwencrona out of bed for nibbling on biscuits ?

Mmmmmmm, Erica. .

Todd Gack

Cliona99 wrote: »

If I could have any body in the world it'd be Robyn Lawley's. Worth a google. She's a size 16, so now I'm wondering if it's because I've been conditioned to find fat people normal, not to mention sexy

She's also 6'2" so not exactly an average size 16

1ZRed

Leftist wrote: »

if you're fat then try to exercise and diet, you'll never chance people's opinion on your excess weight just by asking them to be nice.

I, for one, will now make an effort to shop at A&F. Fat should not be encouraged.

That's a pretty harsh way to see the situation tbh. I don't think being overweight should be encouraged, neither do l think being underweight should be either, I think they best route is to push healthy eating, healthy body images and plenty of exercise on people. That means having curves and being toned healthy, not overweight and "curvy".

I think many overweight people like to hind behind their right to be overweight and how everyone should accommodate them with open arms, which isn't right, when we should actually be trying to push an overall healthier lifestyle on people in a positive way, otherwise we'll get nowhere.

Leftist

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Bit masochistic? :pac:

But, tbh, they're encouraging exclusion, not having a healthy lifestyle.

masochistic? I thought the mither was over the CEO being rude about fat people?

My comments certainly were not gender specific.

Thing is, most fat people are not fat because of a disability. It's not on a par with race, gender, religious or age discrimination. It's fat due to laziness and greed.