Irish flag.

Defiler Of The Coffin

I don't think the flags needs changing at the moment but if we absolutely had to change the flag then I think we should go for a design with the crests of the four provinces. The harp and the red-hand should keep most people on this little island happy!

dodderangler

OCorcrainn wrote: »

So just because some ape goes on a stupid rant about a flag you must assume he is in Sinn Féin? So by your logic Willie Frazer and the 'fleg' protestors or your stereotypical chest thumping American are shinners?

You are daft.

So I'm an ape because I take pride in a symbol for my country?

Are you also assuming I'm a supporter of sinn fein because I take pride in my country?
And to the other idiot don't address me as a shinner
Sinn fein supporter if you want but a shinner
That's just being a yuppie retard thinking your high and mighty

Chucken

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

I don't think the flags needs changing at the moment but if we absolutely had to change the flag then I think we should go for a design with the crests of the four provinces. The harp and the red-hand should keep most people on this little island happy!

Like this one?
http://www.irishnation.com/images/fourprovincesofirelandflag.gif

Defiler Of The Coffin

Chucken wrote: »

Like this one?
http://www.irishnation.com/images/fourprovincesofirelandflag.gif

Something like that one, but a little more artistic and not looking like someone just copied and pasted all the provincial flags into one image!

kneemos

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

I don't think the flags needs changing at the moment but if we absolutely had to change the flag then I think we should go for a design with the crests of the four provinces. The harp and the red-hand should keep most people on this little island happy!

I thought of that but it may be too complicated,flags generally are a very simple design.

Defiler Of The Coffin

kneemos wrote: »

I thought of that but it may be too complicated,flags generally are a very simple design.

I know, it's hard to get the balance right. Colonel Gadaffi had the right idea when he made the Libyan flag all green!

Peregrine

siltirocker wrote: »

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/i/ie_pres.gif

I like our original pre tricolour flag.

That's used as Ireland's coat of arms and the Presidential Standard.

I think it's flown at Áras an Uachtaráin.

Also, a harp on green is the flag of Leinster.

smash

you can't change the flag... think about all the knackers that'll need new tattoos!

Dyr

smash wrote: »

you can't change the flag... think about all the knackers that'll need new tattoos!

harps make great tattoos, plus it would be a boost to the industry

smash

Bambi wrote: »

harps make great tattoos, plus it would be a boost to the industry

And we could lace the ink with some chemical to make them sterile! It's genius!

paddy147

kneemos wrote: »

Should we change the Irish flag now we have peace in the north,maybe an all green job with a harp?

Im sure Mr Alan Shatter will do it for you.

Seen as he took away the millitary gaurd of honour from the 1916 commemoration mass in Arbour Hill yesterday.:eek::mad:

Andrew_Doran

siltirocker wrote: »

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/i/ie_pres.gif

I like our original pre tricolour flag.

The pre-tricolour flag was St. Patrick's Saltire I thought. Often used up north as a more neutral symbol for Ireland and still to be found flying in various forms in the south.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/St_Patrick%27s_saltire.svg/250px-St_Patrick%27s_saltire.svg.png

armaghbhoy wrote: »

So why would you want to change the flag because of peace in the north when the flag stands for peace already?

To those of the unionist tradition the tricolour may be strongly associated with the republican movement and republican terrorism going back 100 years and beyond, whereas to us down south it's simply the flag of the nation.

We would do well to follow the example of the peace process and try to put ourselves in the "other side"'s boots from time to time to understand how they see things.

LordSutch

Obviously the Tricolour will never fly with the Unionist community, same goes for the Union flag with Nationalist Ireland, so how about a compromise between the two flags? Take the the Tricolour [Green White Orange] and insert the St Patrick Cross into the White third of the flag, therby inserting the Unionist "Irish" part of the Union flag into the Tricolour, ergo everbodys represented, and everybodys happy )

Sounds good to me.

LOOKS GOOD TOO.

An tAthair MacSuibhne

LordSutch wrote: »

Obviously the Tricolour will never fly with the Unionist community, same goes for the Union flag with Nationalist Ireland, so how about a compromise between the two flags? Take the the Tricolour [Green White Orange] and insert the St Patrick Cross into the White third of the flag, therby inserting the Unionist "Irish" part of the Union flag into the Tricolour, ergo everbodys represented, and everybodys happy )

Sounds good to me.

LOOKS GOOD TOO.

What need is there to compromise? Unionists brought the troubles onto themselves. I can't see why we should apologise for that yet alone alter our national flag.

Pug160

kneemos wrote: »

Should we change the Irish flag now we have peace in the north,maybe an all green job with a harp?

Right now, no. But further down the line when there's a possibility of unity it would probably be a wise thing to do in order to accommodate a fresh start for everybody.

It's not really something that needs to be discussed right now though.

castletownman

As a few equally observant posters before me mentioned earlier, the national colour is actually blue, as featured in a particularly interesting episode of QI which I saw on Dave the other night:

The national colour of Ireland is St. Patrick's blue. The coat of arms of Ireland has a shield depicting an Irish harp on a St. Patrick's blue background, and the Irish Guards have a St. Patrick's blue patch on their bearskin helmets. The idea of green being the national colour comes from a rebellion in 1798. It became the colour associated with Irish nationalism and began to take over from St. Patrick's blue.

But then the COYBIB abbreviation doesn't seem as right

kneemos

castletownman wrote: »

As a few equally observant posters before me mentioned earlier, the national colour is actually blue, as featured in a particularly interesting episode of QI which I saw on Dave the other night:

The national colour of Ireland is St. Patrick's blue. The coat of arms of Ireland has a shield depicting an Irish harp on a St. Patrick's blue background, and the Irish Guards have a St. Patrick's blue patch on their bearskin helmets. The idea of green being the national colour comes from a rebellion in 1798. It became the colour associated with Irish nationalism and began to take over from St. Patrick's blue.

But then the COYBIB abbreviation doesn't seem as right

Often wondered about the blue carpet in The Dail.

enda1

An tAthair MacSuibhne wrote: »

What need is there to compromise? Unionists brought the troubles onto themselves. I can't see why we should apologise for that yet alone alter our national flag.

Here we go again...

LordSutch

An tAthair MacSuibhne wrote: »

What need is there to compromise?

So you seriously think that Unionists should just accept the Tricolour as their own flag? I think not.

Realistically the flag would have to change if you wanted a Unified, United Ireland with Unionist input, which
is why I think that my suggestion in post#64 is a real candidate as a Unifying flag for Unionists & Nationalists.

jill_valentine

Bambi wrote: »

We'd probably be the only country with diddies on the national flag. Make this happen

If we can get the word "diddies" onto official documentation, encyclopedias, wikis, CIA handbooks... my God, it would be totally worth it.

Nodin

paddy147 wrote: »

Im sure Mr Alan Shatter will do it for you.

Seen as he took away the millitary gaurd of honour from the 1916 commemoration mass in Arbour Hill yesterday.:eek::mad:

The military will still be at the ceremony though, they just be acting as an honour guard for the church. Which is fine by me, tbh.

mattjack

jill_valentine wrote: »

If we can get the word "diddies" onto official documentation, encyclopedias, wikis, CIA handbooks... my God, it would be totally worth it.

Has anyone actually read this post ?

Truly brilliant , Ma'am I tip my hat to you .

boynesider

Flags don't matter, and if you allow them to matter to you then you are simply confused.

A modern rationalistic society should move beyond the petty, small minded ideas of nationalism and tribalism which have afflicted human civilization since its beginning. All nationalism does, even in its ostensibly benign forms, is separate humans from each other and promote difference based on superficial reasons.

Religion has begun dying out in the modern world in the 20th century, and I think it would be a good thing for everyone if nationalism went the same way in the 21st.

Therefore I think we shouldn't just change the Irish flag, we should take a truly revolutionary and visionary step and get rid of it!

mattjack

boynesider wrote: »

Flags don't matter, and if you allow them to matter to you then you are simply confused.

A modern rationalistic society should move beyond the petty, small minded ideas of nationalism and tribalism which have afflicted human civilization since its beginning. All nationalism does, even in its ostensibly benign forms, is separate humans from each other and promote difference based on superficial reasons.

Religion has begun dying out in the modern world in the 20th century, and I think it would be a good thing for everyone if nationalism went the same way in the 21st.

Therefore I think we shouldn't just change the Irish flag, we should take a truly revolutionary and visionary step and get rid of it!

And just have a flag pole , painted green, white and orange.

armaghbhoy

boynesider wrote: »

Flags don't matter, and if you allow them to matter to you then you are simply confused.

A modern rationalistic society should move beyond the petty, small minded ideas of nationalism and tribalism which have afflicted human civilization since its beginning. All nationalism does, even in its ostensibly benign forms, is separate humans from each other and promote difference based on superficial reasons.

Religion has begun dying out in the modern world in the 20th century, and I think it would be a good thing for everyone if nationalism went the same way in the 21st.

Therefore I think we shouldn't just change the Irish flag, we should take a truly revolutionary and visionary step and get rid of it!

This is not the case with Irish nationialism though. They promote equality among everyone and welcome everyone to the country. They even accept gay marriage and are strongly anti racist.

latenia

armaghbhoy wrote: »

This is not the case with Irish nationialism though. They promote equality among everyone and welcome everyone to the country. They even accept gay marriage and are strongly anti racist.

The official Sinn Féin line as promoted by the party leadership but when it comes to their rank and file supporters there is a massive disparity in their worldview. I would make an educated guess that supporting Sinn Féin correlates with racist and homophobic outlook.

boynesider

armaghbhoy wrote: »

This is not the case with Irish nationialism though. They promote equality among everyone and welcome everyone to the country. They even accept gay marriage and are strongly anti racist.

I wasn't specifying Irish nationalism. I mean all ideas about national identity. I think that all these do is allow us to convince ourselves that some people are inherently different and therefore less valuable than us for the simple, arbitrary reason of geographical location.

I know these opinions are wildly against the grain of most peoples, but that is honestly what I believe.

armaghbhoy

latenia wrote: »

The official Sinn Féin line as promoted by the party leadership but when it comes to their rank and file supporters there is a massive disparity in their worldview. I would make an educated guess that supporting Sinn Féin correlates with racist and homophobic outlook.

As you said, thats a ''guess', but its clearly wrong. Its actually way off lol..Any people who have that outlook would most likely be outted if they were a member, or else discredited by supporters as I have seen it happen before. Plus I live in the heart of all of this. There are also various facts and historical things I could post as proof such as the civil rights march being inspired by Martin Luther King, Numerous Murals against racism etc..but don't want to get into it...I seen a website one time, some guy tried to set up a new party saying it was nationalist, but most of the views he had were racist etc. Needless to say, the party didn't get anywhere, had 0 supporters and was ridiculed by the few republicans that did come across it.

Nodin

latenia wrote: »

The official Sinn Féin line as promoted by the party leadership but when it comes to their rank and file supporters there is a massive disparity in their worldview. I would make an educated guess that supporting Sinn Féin correlates with racist and homophobic outlook.

Ye'd be wrong there.

mattjack

armaghbhoy wrote: »

As you said, thats a ''guess', but its clearly wrong. Its actually way off lol..Any people who have that outlook would most likely be outted if they were a member, or else discredited by supporters as I have seen it happen before. Plus I live in the heart of all of this. There are also various facts and historical things I could post as proof such as the civil rights march being inspired by Martin Luther King, Numerous Murals against racism etc..but don't want to get into it...I seen a website one time, some guy tried to set up a new party saying it was nationalist, but most of the views he had were racist etc. Needless to say, the party didn't get anywhere, had 0 supporters and was ridiculed by the few republicans that did come across it.

A member of what ?
When you say being "discredited or outed" , what do you mean , are they asked to leave their communities , do you mean they become outcasts ?
Hardly some drumhead court martial or some quasi kangaroo style court ?

armaghbhoy

mattjack wrote: »

A member of what ?
When you say being "discredited or outed" , what do you mean , are they asked to leave their communities , do you mean they become outcasts ?
Hardly some drumhead court martial or some quasi kangaroo style court ?

You can become a member of one of the political parties..so a member of Sinn Fein. They wouldn't be asked to leave the communities unless they were doing something like say...a racist attack, but I've honestly never seen that happen. They definatley wouldn't be accepted in the community though. I mean, if this was a republican forum for example, they would probably be banned and discredited.

tdv123

jjbrien wrote: »

Believe it or not that flag is the coat of arms for the goverment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coat_of_arms_of_Ireland.svg

Whoever said the starry plough should be used obviously didn't release that the INLA used that flag for their logo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_National_Liberation_Army

Id just keep our current flag but maybe change the national anthem instead to something more welcoming to both sides of the flag.

I'm pretty sure INLA didn't have a "logo". That's like saying the Provisional IRa logo was the tricolor, even though they dragged it around with them everywhere that didn't make it their logo.

latenia

armaghbhoy wrote: »

As you said, thats a ''guess', but its clearly wrong. Its actually way off lol..Any people who have that outlook would most likely be outted if they were a member, or else discredited by supporters as I have seen it happen before.

Nodin wrote: »

Ye'd be wrong there.

Ok, maybe not amongst party members themselves but definitely amongst their voters-that's the disparity I'm referring to. If I see some ould bollix ranting about foreigners in the pub tonight it's far more likely that he'd be a Sinn Féin suporter rather than any other party.

Iwasfrozen

tdv123 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure INLA didn't have a "logo". That's like saying the Provisional IRa logo was the tricolor, even though they dragged it around with them everywhere that didn't make it their logo.

The Provo's logo was the phoenix....

batistuta9

latenia wrote: »

Ok, maybe not amongst party members themselves but definitely amongst their voters-that's the disparity I'm referring to. If I see some ould bollix ranting about foreigners in the pub tonight it's far more likely that he'd be a Sinn Féin suporter rather than any other party.

that's nonsense

Pug160

A lot of people don't have a clue about politics and just vote for a party for one main reason.

armaghbhoy

latenia wrote: »

Ok, maybe not amongst party members themselves but definitely amongst their voters-that's the disparity I'm referring to. If I see some ould bollix ranting about foreigners in the pub tonight it's far more likely that he'd be a Sinn Féin suporter rather than any other party.

Have been in many bars, including what some would call a ''Sinn Fein'' bar where most of their supporters would drink basically, and never heard what your describing in my life. If there is an idiot out there like that though, then hes clearly supporting the wrong party and if he went into a bar like I have described he would soon see no one agrees with him. So I do have to say that its nonsense lol

Iwasfrozen

batistuta9 wrote: »

that's nonsense

It really isn't. SF attracts the loonys.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It really isn't. SF attracts the loonys.

Does it now. Aren't you the little stereotyper.

latenia wrote:

Ok, maybe not amongst party members themselves but definitely
amongst their voters-that's the disparity I'm referring to. If I see some ould
bollix ranting about foreigners in the pub tonight it's far more likely that
he'd be a Sinn Féin suporter rather than any other party.

I've been voting SF at every opportunity for 25 years, and I'm fairly sure that I don't rant about "foreigners"...
Your skill at garnering the voting preferences of the "oul bollix" ranters could well be marketable.

armaghbhoy

anyone that I've seen complaining about immigrants, which is one person to be exact, he actually doesn't vote and is not a republican.

and most people who don't know much about politics also don't vote but I've honestly never heard anything like that from them either.

I remember one time years ago the british army were patrolling through my area, and there was a black lad among them. There was a crowd of about 40 fellas standing, I can't remember what was going on exactly..but they were busy shouting over to the black guy, ''yo, what are you doing with them?'' saying they respect him and a few other things, basically saying he shouldn't be there.

Iwasfrozen

Nodin wrote: »

Does it now. Aren't you the little stereotyper.

Ah now to be fair you have to accept SF attracts more then it's fair share of the nutters. But that's a phenomenon associated with fringe parties in general.

Pug160

armaghbhoy wrote: »

anyone that I've seen complaining about immigrants, which is one person to be exact, he actually doesn't vote and is not a republican.

and most people who don't know much about politics also don't vote but I've honestly never heard anything like that from them either.

I remember one time years ago the british army were patrolling through my area, and there was a black lad among them. There was a crowd of about 40 fellas standing, I can't remember what was going on exactly..but they were busy shouting over to the black guy, ''yo, what are you doing with them?'' saying they respect him and a few other things, basically saying he shouldn't be there.

I've personally encountered quite a few people complaining about immigrants. Every one of them respectable, educated people. You probably haven't heard people mention it often because a lot of people like to keep that sort of thing behind closed doors as it can be (in some cases) social or political suicide.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ah now to be fair you have to accept SF attracts more then it's fair share of the nutters. .

No, actually, I don't.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

But that's a phenomenon associated with fringe parties in general.

The "fringe" days are a thing of the past.

Yamanoto

armaghbhoy wrote: »

I remember one time years ago the british army were patrolling through my area, and there was a black lad among them. There was a crowd of about 40 fellas standing, I can't remember what was going on exactly..but they were busy shouting over to the black guy, ''yo, what are you doing with them?'' saying they respect him and a few other things, basically saying he shouldn't be there.

They respected him / viewed him differently solely because he was black?

Smacks of the noble savage to me.

armaghbhoy

Yamanoto wrote: »

They respected him / viewed him differently solely because he was black?

Smacks of the noble savage to me.

They just viewed their struggle the same as theirs, and seen him as part of an occupying force, meaning they saw him as supposed to be on their side, not differently but the same as them. they would feel the same if they saw an Irish person there, its no different. They would have asked him what he was doing there and felt betrayed in a sense. So its not like you said.

mattjack

armaghbhoy wrote: »

You can become a member of one of the political parties..so a member of Sinn Fein. They wouldn't be asked to leave the communities unless they were doing something like say...a racist attack, but I've honestly never seen that happen. They definatley wouldn't be accepted in the community though. I mean, if this was a republican forum for example, they would probably be banned and discredited.

What's interesting is that you're suggesting that some sort of justice may be delivered or administered separate from the judicial process of the state.

So instead of involving police/legal procedure , individuals or a group take it upon themselves to administer justice. Hardly modern mainstream nationalist policy.

Iwasfrozen

Nodin wrote: »

No, actually, I don't.



The "fringe" days are a thing of the past.

Then I suppose it has to do with perspective...

8.4% of the seats in the Dáil is fringe.

Storm 10

The green flag with the Harp is already taken, the Irish Naval Service use it, Its the Naval Service Jack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Naval_Jack_of_Ireland.svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Irish_Naval_jack.JPG

1946-present, Naval Jack of Ireland, A silver stringed gold harp on a green field. The emblem of the Naval Service of Ireland

Cody Pomeray

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ah now to be fair you have to accept SF attracts more then it's fair share of the nutters. But that's a phenomenon associated with fringe parties in general.

I think that's an opinion that is stuck in 1997.

Voting Sinn Féin hasn't been so politically acceptable since 1926.

They have validated their leadership by subjecting it to election for serious political office here in the Republic. Even where they have been unsuccessful, that can have serious long term vote-getting consequences.

I think anyone who has been watching SF membership would acknowledge that the membership profile has changed dramatically.

There's also something in the blood. They're showing a level of electoral and media savvy that you shouldn't expect from a party this 'young'. Interesting times ahead.

Yamanoto

armaghbhoy wrote: »

They just viewed their struggle the same as theirs, and seen him as part of an occupying force, meaning they saw him as supposed to be on their side, not differently but the same as them. they would feel the same if they saw an Irish person there, its no different. They would have asked him what he was doing there and felt betrayed in a sense. So its not like you said.

You may not recognise their treatment of him as overtly racist, but they were presuming they knew who he was & how he should think & act, based on nothing more than the colour of his skin.