Irish flag.

Iwasfrozen

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I think that's an opinion that is stuck in 1997.

Voting Sinn Féin hasn't been so politically acceptable since 1926.

They have validated their leadership by subjecting it to election for serious political office here in the Republic. Even where they have been unsuccessful, that can have serious long term vote-getting consequences.

I think anyone who has been watching SF membership would acknowledge that the membership profile has changed dramatically.

There's also something in the blood. They're showing a level of electoral and media savvy that you shouldn't expect from a party this 'young'. Interesting times ahead.

You're fooling yourself if you think SF will ever be in power or anything other then a fringe party in the south.

Cody Pomeray

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You're fooling yourself if you think SF will ever be in power or anything other then a fringe party in the south.

Am I? Fair enough. I don't pretend to be able to read tea leaves.

If you do Christmas parties gimme a shout.

armaghbhoy

Yamanoto wrote: »

You may not recognise their treatment of him as overtly racist, but they were presuming they knew who he was & how he should think & act, based on nothing more than the colour of his skin.

This is quite funny to be honest, The black guy was loving it smiling and talking away, his response was hes there for the money. Which is the same story in most cases. I understand what you're trying to say but its just not the case at all. They were not assuming they knew who he was personally. Its sort of like, they expect all Irish people to share atleast one common belief, which would be a united Ireland. Llike, if they saw an Irish person there, he would be a traitor to them. If they saw a palestinian he would be a traitor. The see them as the same as them, no different. That can't be that hard to understand

This could go on for awhile with the point your trying to get at, so I'm done with it after this but the fact is you can't label someone racist when they are completely against racism. Of course not all black people should think the same, but I do believe they should be united with atleast one common view the same way most other cultures should, and theres nothing racist about that. Its just a belief.

and I think some may also disagree with you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7xlDUmXR8

The thing is though some black people in America or England don't really care about joining the army etc and thats probably what the Irish don't understand because they are more political about it, generally speaking.

Iwasfrozen

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Am I? Fair enough. I don't pretend to be able to read tea leaves.

If you do Christmas parties gimme a shout.

Neither do I. None of us know what will happen in the far future but we can make predictions on the foreseeable based on previous trends.

Crooked Jack

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't get it. What does "peace" (a loose interpretation of the word BTW!) in the six counties ever have to do with our flag?

Our flag

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Our flag

It's not the flag of the majority of your country men.

Crooked Jack

kneemos wrote: »

Depends how you look at it,you could say it stands for conflict.

Only if you were an utter tool ignoring all logic and reason

ONeill2013

Nino Brown wrote: »

I think the green represents Ireland, the Orange represents the North, and the white represents peace between the 2. I would have gone with a dove in between an pint of Guinness and a Flute but I wasn't there when they picked it.

orange doesn't represent the north, it's not just Ulster Scots who live here

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not the flag of the majority of your country men.

It surely is. And lets not play this childish game.

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

It surely is. And lets not play this childish game.

Ok let me rephrase.

It's not the flag of the majority of your country men. And by country men I mean Northern Ireland and/or UK since your location is listed as Armagh.

getzls

Jhcx wrote: »

Why? Tbh I like what the current one stands for.

For a lot of N.I. Unionists that flag stands for/reminds them of the PIRA.

How about a nice red, white and blue one?

Yamanoto

armaghbhoy wrote: »

This is quite funny to be honest, The black guy was loving it smiling and talking away, his response was hes there for the money.

How the chap himself chose to react is moot & doesn't preclude their actions from being reasonably construed as racist.

armaghbhoy wrote: »

Its sort of like, they expect all Irish people to share atleast one common belief, which would be a united Ireland. Llike, if they saw an Irish person there, he would be a traitor to them. If they saw a palestinian he would be a traitor. The see them as the same as them, no different. That can't be that hard to understand

Actually it's unfathomable on a personal level, but the mindset as described above clearly exists among some on this island, unfortunately enough.

armaghbhoy wrote: »

Of course not all black people should think the same, but I do believe they should be united with atleast one common view the same way most other cultures should, and theres nothing racist about that. Its just a belief.

Sorry chief, all a bit nebulous right there.

wintersolstice

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Blue is Ireland's national colour

blue with a golden harp would be lovely.the tricolour we have now is utterly horrible and should be got rid of.i hate seeing it anywhere.its so republican,i associate it with the north.we need a flag that has nothing to do with them.

ONeill2013

wintersolstice wrote: »

blue with a golden harp would be lovely.the tricolour we have now is utterly horrible and should be got rid of.i hate seeing it anywhere.its so republican,i associate it with the north.we need a flag that has nothing to do with them.

and i associate it with the republic hence why i don't view it as my flag, strange that

RADIUS

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Badge_of_the_House_of_Windsor.svg

I am sure our shinner would love to see the Blue flag and Harp. The symbol of the Lordship of Ireland. (Although the original had boobs)

I think we should go for it. It looks great so the majority of modern Irish will love it, the Unionists would love it, it's undeniably Irish and the Shinners would hate it.

The tricolour represents our differences. I think we should embrace our similarities and opt for the Harp.

Perfect.

mlumley

How about, Green, white, and orange. Green to represent the south, white to represent peace orange to represent....... OMG......seen that somewere befor. I always thought that the irish flag represented all perswasions.

grenache

kneemos wrote: »

Should we change the Irish flag now we have peace in the north,maybe an all green job with a harp?

Change it to suit the wants of a minority?

how about......no

Iwasfrozen

RADIUS wrote: »

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Badge_of_the_House_of_Windsor.svg

I am sure our shinner would love to see the Blue flag and Harp. The symbol of the Lordship of Ireland. (Although the original had boobs)

I think we should go for it. It looks great so the majority of modern Irish will love it, the Unionists would love it, it's undeniably Irish and the Shinners would hate it.

The tricolour represents our differences. I think we should embrace our similarities and opt for the Harp.

Perfect.

The last point is the cream on the cake, I'm in.

grenache

ONeill2013 wrote: »

and i associate it with the republic hence why i don't view it as my flag, strange that

Why? It's the flag of every Irishman on this island, protestant, cathlic or dissenter. Drawing a line on a map doesn't change what it represents.

RADIUS

grenache wrote: »

Why? It's the flag of every Irishman on this island, protestant, cathlic or dissenter. Drawing a line on a map doesn't change what it represents.

I doubt many Irish unionists would agree. Saying it represents every Irish man does not make it true. I feel more represented by the harp as the tricolour reminds me of Irish republicanism and the IRA.

grenache

Nino Brown wrote: »

I think the green represents Ireland, the Orange represents the North, and the white represents peace between the 2. I would have gone with a dove in between an pint of Guinness and a Flute but I wasn't there when they picked it.

I think.....you need to read a good history book.

grenache

RADIUS wrote: »

I doubt many Irish unionists would agree.

Ah yes, but i wouldn't recognise them as Irish, they identify as British. I'm referring to people who actually describe themselves as Irish.

RADIUS

grenache wrote: »

Ah yes, but i wouldn't recognise them as Irish, they identify as British. I'm referring to people who actually describe themselves as Irish.

So to be a true Irish man you need to describe yourself as Irish and see the flag as your symbol?

There are plenty of Unionists that would consider them selves Irish and British. Nothing wrong with that they have as much right to be here as we do.
And what of the southern catholic unionists? Or those of mixed Irish-British descent like myself? Am I less Irish because of that?

ONeill2013

grenache wrote: »

Why? It's the flag of every Irishman on this island, protestant, cathlic or dissenter. Drawing a line on a map doesn't change what it represents.

it doesn't represent peace here though, the colours do but the idea of sticking one on a lamp post isn't for the sake of peace. There are numerous other flags I can identify with to reflect my heritage, e.g. fianna sunburst, ulster, green harp, etc.

dartup

heres one


https://d44ytnim3cfy5.cloudfront.net/assets/5204981/view_large/Old%20Irish%20Pirat%20flag%20s.jpg?1331039431

errlloyd

I'm a protestant who lives in the Republic and I kind of like being in on the flag

The flag was developed for Wolfe Tone's (protestant) rebellion and it is trying to show that Ireland is a nation for both Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants - yeah FYI, there is such a thing.

EDIT: I realise that reads like the whole 1798 rebellion was protestant, it wasn't. Just Wolfe Tone (and some others)

grenache

RADIUS wrote: »

So to be a true Irish man you need to describe yourself as Irish and see the flag as your symbol?

There are plenty of Unionists that would consider them selves Irish and British. Nothing wrong with that they have as much right to be here as we do.
And what of the southern catholic unionists? Or those of mixed Irish-British descent like myself? Am I less Irish because of that?

No, of course not. I just like the Irish flag. I like the meaning behind it. Just because a bunch of Shinners abuse it, doesn't take away from what it really stands for. And i think most Unionists in the North, would identify themselves as 100% British - which i find a little bizarre, but anyways, each to their own.

MRPRO03

Here is a mess flag I created:

Iwasfrozen

MRPRO03 wrote: »

Here is a mess flag I created:

Actually not bad.

jill_valentine

errlloyd wrote: »

I'm a protestant who lives in the Republic and I kind of like being in on the flag

The flag was developed for Wolfe Tone's (protestant) rebellion and it is trying to show that Ireland is a nation for both Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants - yeah FYI, there is such a thing.

EDIT: I realise that reads like the whole 1798 rebellion was protestant, it wasn't. Just Wolfe Tone (and some others)

I'm grand with the colours, but stand by my previous statement that it would be absolutely brilliant to have a flag featuring a diddies motif of some description.

Because, we've all got our quirks, differences and identities, and that's wonderful. But I ask you this; Who among us - who among us - doesn't giggle at seeing the word "diddies" in text? What creed or colour or caste of Irishman or Irishwoman doesn't take joy in that? And if they exist, would you truly want to call them comrade anyway?

Isn't that a flag you'd want to wave? Isn't that a word you'd want to hear in anthems and poems? Don't you want to see football teams and foreign dignitaries stand beneath such a banner, head bowed in respect?

What could we look to, to guide us through these dark times we face?

Diddies, ladies and gentlemen. Diddies.

errlloyd

I am cool with a flag designed purely to make people laugh, but if that's the case can't we use the guy slipping on ice on RTE or that youtube video of fat people falling off stuff. Everyone laughs at them.

tdv123

getzls wrote: »

For a lot of N.I. Unionists that flag stands for/reminds them of the PIRA.

How about a nice red, white and blue one?

And I'm sure for a lot of N.I. Nationalists the Ulster flag reminds them of the UDA/UVF. Still be ridiculous to change it tho.

Crooked Jack

tdv123 wrote: »

And I'm sure for a lot of N.I. Nationalists the Ulster flag reminds them of the UDA/UVF. Still be ridiculous to change it tho.

Obviously I cant speak for all nationalist/republicans but personally the Ulster flag reminds me of Ulster, the Irish flag reminds me of Ireland. if anyone else is reading anything else into them because of the actions of others, well, that's really their issue.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ok let me rephrase.

It's not the flag of the majority of your country men. And by country men I mean Northern Ireland and/or UK since your location is listed as Armagh.

see my previous response to your last childish message.

donegal_road

MRPRO03 wrote: »

Here is a mess flag I created:

I like this.
It is similar to the flag of Cyprus.

OCorcrainn

dodderangler wrote: »

So I'm an ape because I take pride in a symbol for my country?

Are you also assuming I'm a supporter of sinn fein because I take pride in my country?
And to the other idiot don't address me as a shinner
Sinn fein supporter if you want but a shinner
That's just being a yuppie retard thinking your high and mighty

I am a 'shinner' and a member of Sinn Féin but I don't go around insulting and ranting at people just because I disagree with them, you came across as being very intolerant and irrationally hostile, hence I called you that. But I do apologize.

OCorcrainn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ah now to be fair you have to accept SF attracts more then it's fair share of the nutters.

Yeah, like that Pearse Doherty or Eoin Ó Broin, they are real nutters aren't they? :rolleyes:

asdfg!

The tricolour was a mistake like so many things about this country. Orange does not represent all protestants. Not all protestants are Orangemen no more than all Catholics are Republicans. In fact Orangemen are a particularly bitterly anti Catholic, anti Irish group of people. Having them represented on our flag is both ironic and stupid.

No our true flag is the green one with the harp on it and it was generally accepted by both sides. So it's never going to be as divisive as the tricolour which is now tainted by it's association with violence and terror.

Not that they'll ever change the flag. Like most things in this country. We will continue to pretend it has some meaning, like we pretend we really want a united Ireland. We really are a deluded race.:mad:

LordSutch

asdfg! wrote: »

The tricolour was a mistake like so many things about this country. Orange does not represent all protestants. Not all protestants are Orangemen no more than all Catholics are Republicans. In fact Orangemen are a particularly bitterly anti Catholic, anti Irish group of people. Having them represented on our flag is both ironic and stupid.

Not that they'll ever change the flag. Like most things in this country. We will continue to pretend it has some meaning, like we pretend we really want a united Ireland. We really are a deluded race.:mad:

^One of the best posts I have ever seen re the flag!

Curious asdfg!, what do you think of my flag suggestion in post#64.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ah now to be fair you have to accept SF attracts more then it's fair share of the nutters. But that's a phenomenon associated with fringe parties in general.

Haha, 400,000 votes in 2011. Jesus, that's some fringe. That's a fringe of Willie Frazer proportions

OCorcrainn

LordSutch wrote: »

Curious asdfg!, what do you think of my flag suggestion in post#64.

The tricolour represented the aspiration of peace and brotherhood between orangeman and Catholic.

In a united Ireland the meaning behind the symbolism of the Irish Tricolour would be rendered obsolete in the context that peace and the unification of the communities from a symbolic perspective would have been achieved, hence you can argue for a new flag for the new unified Irish nation.

I would support these alternative flags in order:

The Four Provinces Flag
Harp with a blue background
Harp with a green background
Starry Plough
Sunburst Flag

Jimoslimos

All these calls for a harp on our national flag smells suspiciously like a covert marketing operation for Guinness...

LordSutch

OCorcrainn wrote: »

I would support these alternative flags in order:

The Four Provinces Flag
Harp with a blue background
Harp with a green background
Starry Plough
Sunburst Flag

But where's the Unionist identity?

At least in my version the Green White & Orange are still intect, with the addition of a Unionist symbol.

Sound of Silence

Just like that brilliant scene in Arrested Development where Jason Bateman's character opens the fridge to discover a paper bag with the words "Dead Bird Inside" scribbled hastily on the front in black marker, I honestly don't know why I would be shocked by what I discovered when I opened in this thread - a dead bird, or to be more specific, just more of the usual duplicity which I've come to expect.

It's actually fascinating how some of the very same Unionists posters who declared the removal of the Union flag at Belfast City hall to be part of some vile and dastardly plan by Republicans conspiring to remove all semblance of the Unionist identity in the North, are now the very same people to declare their willingness to create a new flag which will represent the views and beliefs of everybody living on this Island (Provided that the flag is not flown up North).

I had gotten so used to being told that I just simply had to accept the fact that the Union Flag was the prevalent symbol of the State I happen to live in, and that all viewpoints contrary to this were immediately rendered invalid because of the current political consensus on the point, so to see it work any other way is a bit surprising. For that reason, I can't tell if I'm shocked by the sudden display of cultural consciousness by some of the posters here, or I've just grown complacent over the last few months.

So what's next, a dancing Shamrock on the Union flag?

Hunterbiker

LordSutch wrote: »

Obviously the Tricolour will never fly with the Unionist community

I saw what you did there

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

But where's the Unionist identity?

At least in my version the Green White & Orange are still intect, with the addition of a Unionist symbol.

We could have somebody with a sulky face in the background....?

Hunterbiker

Nodin wrote: »

We could have somebody with a sulky face in the background....?

Or a sulky race

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

see my previous response to your last childish message.

Well Jesus, I'm sorry if I'm not mature enough for ya Jack.

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Yeah, like that Pearse Doherty or Eoin Ó Broin, they are real nutters aren't they? :rolleyes:

No, neither of them, I'm talking more about the grass roots supporters not the party elite.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Haha, 400,000 votes in 2011. Jesus, that's some fringe. That's a fringe of Willie Frazer proportions

8.4% is fringe.

MajorMax

There is an urban myth that the Green represents catholics and the Orange represents Protestants with the white reresenting peace between them. This myth is even propogated by the Irish Government.
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/The%20National%20Flag.pdf

Rubbish! :mad:

The original tricolour flag was presented as a gift in 1848 to Waterford man Thomas Francis Meagher from a small group of French women sympathetic to the Irish cause during his visit to France as an Irish Confederation revolutionary and member of the young Irelanders.

The design used in original 1848 flag was similar to the present flag, except that orange was placed next to the staff (like the flag of the Ivory Coast), and the red hand of Ulster decorated the middle of the white field

These french women chose a tricolour as ricolours had gianed popularity in europe during the revolutionary upheavels of 1848 and the french tricolour was the original revolutionary flag. A revolutionary wave spread across europe like herpes at a dundalk nightclub. Even the Italian flag (kingdom of Sardinia) and the modern black red and gold flag of Germany were born then

Having said all that I like our flag and it should stay as it is. I don't like the way this discussion has degenerated to the vocal lunatic fringe of Unionists versus Sinn Fein, neither of these groups can claim to speak for the majority of their respective societys and I have always resented the way that Sinn Fein hijacked the Tricolour, which was incongruous due to their stated contempt for the Republic of Ireland and Unionists love to wrap themselves in the Union flag and beat their breasts

Nodin

Hunterbiker wrote: »

Or a sulky race

...only lead to fights over who won.