Bus Eireann strike - services have resumed (Read first post)

schemingbohemia

kildarecommuter wrote: »

Not connected with Bus Eireann but I would imagine senior management and why do the 3 CIE group company's all need their own PR team surely they could share !

That's not going to save €5m a year.

Leverarchfile

Patser wrote: »

I'd assume it's more that McGinley's who share some services with BE up there are working. Their owner was on the news yesterday saying they'd a few extra buses available to help cover a few extra services than normal.

No the ones shown on the the BE site are BE not private coaches

ixoy

Patser wrote: »

IMO - and I stress this is my opinion alone - cuts should be made to core wages across the board to variable degrees. The current proposed cuts to allowances affect only drivers' and mechanics wages and to different levels.

Happy to see that you're willing to actually take a step back and realise that there's cuts/changes needed but that maybe in a different manner.

Do you know though if others who are striking are willing to be so pragmatic? I get the sense from the news that some think they can get away without any changes which, as unfortunate as it may be, has to be done. What's the common consensus on what to do?

kildarecommuter

schemingbohemia wrote: »

That's not going to save €5m a year.

Correct but workers may be willing to take some pain if they see it's spread throughout the company.
I'm guessing there's fat at the top of all CIE that could be trimmed

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

godtabh

godtabh wrote: »

Sack them all. Fold BE. Tender a private operator to replace them ala the RPA/Luas and interview new drivers/drivers who will accept a sustainable wage and conditions.

Isnt it gas though how a private operator such as J.J Kavanagh can run so efficiently for near 100 years and yet constant nonsense with the publicly funded operators like Dublin bus, Bus Eireann, etc. Im guessing there is an element of cynicism about it all between the unions and the bosses. Alot of back scratching and pay rises for the boys at the end of the day and if truth be known the unions and state sponsored bosses are all cronies.

whitebriar

Its a Public Service,Publically owned bus company,so why aren't the government increasing the subvention by the measley 5 million it's currently losing and freezing all wages at current levels,Pegging future fare rises/falls to what happens from this day out to all other costs,and following that with a discussion on profit sharing with the employee's?

It seems to me ,we have a strike here arising out of dogged dogma.

kildarecommuter

kildarecommuter wrote: »

Correct but workers may be willing to take some pain if they see it's spread throughout the company.
I'm guessing there's fat at the top of all CIE that could be trimmed

Surely we could have maintained the pre 1987 model and kept them all under the CIE umbrella instead of unnecessary companies because if we are all being honest they havent been run any better but more boys of course have benefited from more jobs

Victor

godtabh wrote: »

Sack them all. Fold BE. Tender a private operator to replace them ala the RPA/Luas and interview new drivers/drivers who will accept a sustainable wage and conditions.

Can we avoid inflammatory posts?

Bus Eireann drivers now the scape goats for the goverments fk up.

IMF calling the shots.. and forcing the hand.

In reality i do believe any figures that this govt issues - they have no creditibility and whats more they massage the figures to suit their agenda.

Fair play to NBRU for taking a stance. I wish them well.

All in all we should have a national bus service that is supplemented by the state.

Going down the road of privatisation again and squeezing every last drip of blood from workers all in the name of profit.

Good luck to all involved and they have my support.

On topic please.

The following are not on topic:
* The government, past or present
* IMF / The Troika
* The Banks
* NAMA
* Croke Park 2
* Privatisation

Moderator

---

end of the road wrote: »

our state operators will not be replaced with a luas style operation as state run operators are vital to make sure places private operators don't wish to serve have some access to public transport

You do realise that private operators can be paid a subsidy to do this? http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/ma-coaches-ballyragget-wins-contract-for-new-publicly-funded-bus-route/

BenShermin wrote: »

Whatever about Expressway being privatised, I think all parties concerned should be very careful about privatising the PSO service. In my experience I've only ever seen the London model to work. It would be awful to see cities like Cork and Limerick to be without services after 7pm.

Any PSO obligation is likely to state a minimum level of service, just like the NTA contracts with the existing PSO operators.

Going Forward wrote: »

Not sure about any real cost saving plans.

http://www.busandcoach.com/newspage.aspx?id=6600&categoryid=0

A bust "company" in a bust country spending like theres no tomorrow.
We've all seen them, the shiny new ones going into the most rural areas with about 10 OAPs on FT aboard..................................

This does not make any sense. No business manager in a private enterprise could condone such spending on new toys.

Has management and directors of the sinking ship taken any significant cuts?

Sensationalist headline - they didn't spend €30m on Wi-Fi, they spent it on 88 buses.

Additionally, if they want to compete in the current market, they need to keep their product current. Quality buses and Wi-Fi are part of that.

Going Forward wrote: »

Someone needs to take a long hard look at just exactly what BE is supposed to be- a flash government funded competitor to private companies on the viable commercial routes or a more PSO focused organisation which would legitimately be funded from the tax pot.

There is no reason why it can't provide both commercial and PSO services.

devnull

whitebriar wrote: »

Its a Public Service,Publically owned bus company,so why aren't the government increasing the subvention by the measley 5 million

Because it sends a signal out that every time a part of the state loses money, rather than address internal issues they will just get handed more money and that is money that the country does not have at the moment and simply cannot afford.

Then next time the company will lose money they will ask for even more, then the next year more after that, other sectors will do the same, thinking, hey why should I work hard when even if we do perform poorly we will be bailed out.

We are spending more than we are taking in and your answer is to spend more money? Seriously

whitebriar

devnull wrote: »

Because it sends a signal out that every time a part of the state loses money, rather than address internal issues they will just get handed more money and that is money that the country does not have at the moment and simply cannot afford.

Then next time the company will lose money they will ask for even more, then the next year more after that, other sectors will do the same, thinking, hey why should I work hard when even if we do perform poorly we will be bailed out.

We are spending more than we are taking in and your answer is to spend more money? Seriously

But if you want public services,you have to pay for them,is your answer to only run commercially viable services publically and let everyone else hitch hike?

devnull

whitebriar wrote: »

But if you want public services,you have to pay for them,is your answer to only run commercially viable services publically and let everyone else hitch hike?

No, I want efficiently run public services.

There is no incentive for a company to be well run if they know however badly and inefficiently run they are they will be bailed out by the taxpayer, which has no more money to give.

Interesting example Victor, as M&A coaches that run that subsidised service don't accept free travel passes. They only offer a reduced fare for pass holders. If that option was made available to all Public transport there'd be no issue here.

That is because of the fact that no new licenses are allowed to join the free travel pass scheme - so even if they took the passes they would not get paid at all by the state for them - they have no choice in this.

kingshankly

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No the trains are driving themselves !!

whitebriar

devnull wrote: »

No, I want efficiently run public services.

There is no incentive for a company to be well run if they know however badly and inefficiently run they are they will be bailed out by the taxpayer, which has no more money to give.

By cutting bus drivers wages? Who aren't exactly millionaire's.
There's probably savings to be made in other areas if you let the forensic accountants in,but not enough by a long shot to run non viable services.
So if you want the loss making ones to continue,your choice is sub vent or sub vent.

That's the elephant in the room with a lot more than bus eireann.

Problem123456

Jesus during exam week...c unts

Leverarchfile

devnull wrote: »

There is no incentive for a company to be well run if they know however badly and inefficiently run they are they will be bailed out by the taxpayer, which has no more money to give.

You mean like the wonderful private sector banks, developers and bondholders ?

There's endless money for them.

Also why is 2 billion of taxpayers money being given in legal fees to a few private legal firms in Dublin for SCAMA ? Yet the wages of a few bus drivers is a massive problem ?

Time to look at the real picture of what's going on in Ireland, and how all ordinary employees and taxpayers, in both the public and private sector are being shafted.

Patser

ixoy wrote: »

Happy to see that you're willing to actually take a step back and realise that there's cuts/changes needed but that maybe in a different manner.

Do you know though if others who are striking are willing to be so pragmatic? I get the sense from the news that some think they can get away without any changes which, as unfortunate as it may be, has to be done. What's the common consensus on what to do?

As I said in the post you're commenting on I'm not rostered on Sunday's, so I'm not in today - picket or otherwise - so I am a bit out of the loop as to what drivers are thinking/talking about today. That said during the week I'd say that most were pragmatic and new there's be cuts one way or another, some didn't believe it would ever get to strike and that there's be an 11th hour re-entry to negotiation and there were a few, very vocal about not giving up anything.

To summarise drivers' complaints as I see - and again it is my opinion, not fact and not any Union's position - there's 3 issues here:

1. The actual cuts - surprisingly not the main source of concern. We knew there'd be cuts to pay and conditions of some sort coming down the line when the negotiations began. We are a bit concerned that BE was the 1st targeted as Dublin Bus and Iarnroid Eireann both had higher losses over the last few years. There is a feeling we were targeted as we could be dealt with easier and that Varadkar is longing for privitisation.

2. The fairness of the cuts - this is probably the main one, and one that I've commented on before. The fact that different people are being hit in vastly different ways almost dependent on a lottery of what position who hold and what roster you do within that role. My last big posts mentioned this and offered possible solutions.

3. The fact the cuts are being imposed - this is very much my own feeling but I think this is why the Unions are being so Gung Ho here. Up until this point all the cuts, changes in terms etc have been agreed to after a period of negotiation. These cuts have not and back when 1st proposed in December had not even gone through any Labour Court or LRC process, they were just being imposed. If management start to impose whatever they feel is needed regardless of the Unions, and the unions do nothing, then what use are the Unions. If the Unions are seen to be powerless, then why would members stay part of them. As I said this is my opinion but I feel the Unions almost see this strike (maybe not strike but at least being seen to be very strong to the point that we now have a strike) as their only way of surviving, if they are to be ignored/powerless then everyone would simply leave.

Also in another way Unions are being pressured by the Govt and Management ibto 'offering alternatives'. This was the mantra Minister Varadkar and BE management held to yesterday - 'offer us alternatives'. Again I said this earlier in the thread, Unions cannot do this. Their sole role is to represent their members, the employees. If they were ever to start proposing cuts it goes completely contrary to that role and places them side by side with management. It's up to Unions to say if things are acceptable or what level might be acceptable, it's up to management to offer alternatives, look into options and actually manage.

So you have a situation whereby staff are unhappy with the cuts and very unhappy about how they're being introduced, coupled with Unions that feel under serious threat for their position versus a Management that are refusing to budge on what they want and almost certainly have political backing on this, as both Management and Minister Varadkar have been parroting the exact same line all week. As I've said there's a willingness for staff to negotiate but it feels a bit like Union Chiefs and Management have dug themselves into trenches and are refusing to budge.

Leverarchfile

Patser wrote: »

This was the mantra Minister Varadkar and BE management held to yesterday - 'offer us alternatives'.

Instead of attacking ordinary bus drivers wages, to give just one example, how about they take a look at the € 2 billion in legal fees being paid to a few select private legal firms in Dublin for SCAMA ?

devnull

Leverarchfile wrote: »

You mean like the wonderful private sector banks, developers and bondholders ?

You do realise how a bank works don't you?

People deposit their money into a bank account which a bank lends out to other people be that through mortgages, loans and things like that. This is where most of a banks funds come from, but of course there will be charges and fees on top of that to bring in extra cash.

Now some of these banks clearly recklessly lended large sums to people they should not have done, be that developers, individuals or businesses. I think we all agree that was wrong, but the lack of regulation and the lack of pro-active actions in this country from the government of the time allowed them to get away with it, because FF were add fuel to the property boom rather than stopping it before it got out of control. The property boom and the banking crisis were heavily linked to each other.

So we now have a situation where the banks have lent more money than they can afford and they don't have enough liquidity in the bank to actually trade normally. Hundreds of thousands of other people have their accounts with this bank and the total balances will be very high. Say for example the bank has 5bn in cash but it's customers have balances that total 20bn

If the bank has nowhere near the amount of cash that customers have deposited in the account, sooner or later, Paddy goes to the bank to withdraw money from his account with 1,000 euro in it, but he cannot withdraw any. Why? Because the bank have no money left since the 5bn that they had has been withdrawn by other customers and the bank is out of money and does not have the funds to allow the other 15bn to be drawn out. The bank fails and everyone loses everything they haven't withdrawn.

Of course the alternative is to do what was discussed in Cyrpus, which is to simply write off a percentage of a customers bank account balance so the money owed to customers by the bank (their account balance), in total, is nearer the total of cash that the bank has to hand.

Leverarchfile

devnull wrote: »

You do realise how a bank works don't you?

People deposit their money into a bank account which a bank lends out to other people be that through mortgages, loans and things like that. This is where most of a banks funds come from, but of course there will be charges and fees on top of that to bring in extra cash.

Now some of these banks clearly recklessly lended large sums to people they should not have done, be that developers, individuals or businesses. I think we all agree that was wrong, but the lack of regulation and the lack of pro-active actions in this country from the government of the time allowed them to get away with it, because FF were add fuel to the property boom rather than stopping it before it got out of control. The property boom and the banking crisis were heavily linked to each other.

So we now have a situation where the banks have lent more money than they can afford and they don't have enough liquidity in the bank to actually trade normally. Hundreds of thousands of other people have their accounts with this bank and the total balances will be very high. Say for example the bank has 5bn in cash but it's customers have balances that total 20bn

If the bank has nowhere near the amount of cash that customers have deposited in the account, sooner or later, Paddy goes to the bank to withdraw money from his account with 1,000 euro in it, but he cannot withdraw any. Why? Because the bank have no money left since the 5bn that they had has been withdrawn by other customers and the bank is out of money and does not have the funds to allow the other 15bn to be drawn out. The bank fails and everyone loses everything they haven't withdrawn.

Of course the alternative is to do what was discussed in Cyrpus, which is to simply write off a percentage of a customers bank account balance so the money owed to customers by the bank (their account balance), in total, is nearer the total of cash that the bank has to hand.

Yaah, busdrivers wages, they are REAL problem . . :rolleyes:

Champ

I think it's important to state that most people don't have a problem with BE receiving a subvention for PSO services on unprofitable routes.

However given the PSO amount (wasn't it €36 million last year so with the cuts it's ~€28 - €30 million this year?) the broke taxpayer is weary with the prospect of putting up additional cash to bail out the company because unless there are serious reforms made then it's merely buying time in the short term with repeated and increasingly costly bailouts likely to occur in the future.

The blame game can go around and around in circles but the financial crisis merely brought to the fore the inherent problems in BE's structure and is forcing it to be addressed now as opposed to merely whipping out the public purse and doing the ostrich effect which the country is in no position to do any longer.

I think a lot of drivers actually realise how much they have to loose from this (i.e. their jobs if BE goes down under) and are willing to compromise as opposed to the "Absolutely no cuts" (and no alternative proposals) stance from the unions but are under peer pressure to keep a united front with their uncompromising colleagues.

bk

Unfortunately given that wages make up over 60% of Bus Eireanns operating expenses, then yes the only real option is to cut wages.

Of course, other areas should also be looked at like the marketing budget, buying new coaches, management wages, etc.

However even if you cut all of these, you would still have to cut drivers and mechanics wages due to the fact that they make up by far the largest expense at the company.

Geog1234

Leverarchfile wrote: »

For some reason Co. Donegal seems to be the only place drivers are not going on strike yet. Maybe the news has not reached them up there.

This can be explained by the fact that a few routes within Co. Donegal and the Donegal Town-Cavan-Dublin route are jointly operated between McGeehan Coaches and Bus Éireann. So the journeys that McGeehans Coaches normally operate seem to be runing as normal.

The company that was on the news/interviewed in recent days is McGinleys - a separate company that doesn't route share with Bus Éireann and as far as I know doesn't operate on hire to Bus Éireann.

mrmac

Does anyone know how long the stike is expected to last?
Desperately trying to work out alternative transport to Dublin Airport, for a dawn flight Tuesday morning!

Victor

Patser wrote: »

Lets get one thing out in the open here - from listening to a few of our Union reps there is a catch 22 situation here. The company is asking them to come up with alternatives but strictly speaking Union rules prevent them from. Unions are there to represent their members, if they were ever to start suggesting what cuts should be made then they no longer really are, they've drifted in 'managing'.

Then the staff and unions need to work 'smarter'. There is a limited pot of money and a specified requirement for savings. As additional income is difficult to obtain, those savings can come from pay related items or they can come from other things. The staff and unions need to identify other savings if they don't want pay to be cut. It may not be the staff and unions' fault, but it is their problem.

For example, with the new ticket machines with the thermal printers, a Bus Éireann ticket is twice the size of Dublin Bus ticket. Changing the spacing on the ticket would cut the paper cost in two.

When I was in Cork a few weeks ago, I was on two trips where the "driver's mate" scenario was delaying services. That needs to be knocked on the head - it is unsafe (driver is distracted and can't see out left doors / mirrors properly) and annoys passengers, driving them to other transport options.

At Busáras, drivers at Gate 14 (Luas stop) refuse to pull all they way to the front, making pulling-in difficult for other drivers also delaying services.

Patser wrote: »

Interesting example Victor, as M&A coaches that run that subsidised service don't accept free travel passes. They only offer a reduced fare for pass holders. If that option was made available to all Public transport there'd be no issue here.

Edit: Just to add link to their fares

http://www.mandacoaches.com/Routes.html

The public service obligation amount paid by the National Transport Authority (ultimately from the Department of Transport) isn't linked to the amount paid from the Department of Social Protection for the Free Travel Pass.

whitebriar wrote: »

Its a Public Service,Publically owned bus company,so why aren't the government increasing the subvention by the measley 5 million it's currently losing

Because if you want he government to fund that €5million, it has to come off something else - health, education, etc.

monument

Victor wrote: »

avoid inflammatory posts

Everybody please take note of the above and that it's not really a request!

Some people are going to be annoyed because the strike is a major disruption and, for others here, you're talking about their livelihoods. We're not asking for everybody to agree with one side or the other but to keep it civil.

As usually please do not reply to this post.

devnull

mrmac wrote: »

Does anyone know how long the stike is expected to last?
Desperately trying to work out alternative transport to Dublin Airport, for a dawn flight Tuesday morning!

Where are you coming from?

Leverarchfile

Victor wrote: »

those savings can come from pay related items or they can come from other things. The staff and unions need to identify other savings if they don't want pay to be cut. It may not be the staff and unions' fault, but it is their problem. .

Management is a unions problem ? lol only in Ireland where Irish management cannot even manage a cat.

So instead of cutting ordinary bus drivers wages, how about cutting banker wages and the € 2 billion euro in fees being paid to a few private legal firms in Dublin for SCAMA ? How about also cutting management's wages in BE for a change ? Hmmmm ?

mrmac

devnull wrote: »

Where are you coming from?

Coming from Letterkenny.
Looks like I may have to go by Ulsterbus from Derry to Belfast, and from there to Dublin. Means nearly 6 hours on a bus, and then another 4 hours waiting at the airport - but only option I can see, if the strike continues for a few days.

gbob

Leverarchfile wrote: »

Management is a unions problem ? lol only in Ireland where Irish management cannot even manage a cat.

So instead of cutting ordinary bus drivers wages, how about cutting banker wages and the € 2 billion euro in fees being paid to a few private legal firms in Dublin for SCAMA ? How about also cutting management's wages in BE for a change ? Hmmmm ?

As I've said, BE is under orders to cut 5 million from payroll, and no doubt some senior manager is in for a nice bonus if and when that happens.

candy19

mrmac wrote: »

Coming from Letterkenny.
Looks like I may have to go by Ulsterbus from Derry to Belfast, and from there to Dublin. Means nearly 6 hours on a bus, and then another 4 hours waiting at the airport - but only option I can see, if the strike continues for a few days.

Can you not get mc ginleys bus from mr chippys??

devnull

Have you looked at here if the times suit?
http://www.johnmcginley.com/docs/timetable_09.pdf

Note that Dublin to Belfast will have reduced service as well as the route is run both by Bus Eireann and Ulsterbus staff, around half of the departures are operated by each so this has curtailed the service by around 50%.

The following services from Belfast to Dublin are not running:
0300 / 0500 / 1000 / 1100 /1200 /1300/ 1800 / 1900/ 2000/ 2100

You should consider Aircoach non-stop from Belfast to Dublin Airport who are running 22 times daily if the above causes you problems.
http://www.aircoach.ie/media/Belfast%20120612.pdf

Victor

Leverarchfile wrote: »

Management is a unions problem ? lol only in Ireland where Irish management cannot even manage a cat.

So instead of cutting ordinary bus drivers wages, how about cutting banker wages and the € 2 billion euro in fees being paid to a few private legal firms in Dublin for SCAMA ? How about also cutting management's wages in BE for a change ? Hmmmm ?

I'm not allowing you to derail the thread. It does a disservice to all.

Moderator

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

Because it sends a signal out that every time a part of the state loses money, rather than address internal issues they will just get handed more money and that is money that the country does not have at the moment and simply cannot afford.

Then next time the company will lose money they will ask for even more, then the next year more after that, other sectors will do the same, thinking, hey why should I work hard when even if we do perform poorly we will be bailed out.

We are spending more than we are taking in and your answer is to spend more money? Seriously

But it is not losing money, if it had the SAME money it received the previous year from state for the PSO it would be ok. It is not about asking for more it is actually asking for just the same amount despite the rise in costs of fuel etc.

The issues are that the state wants to pay less for the same service and the company want the shift workers to carry the can for it.

If you want to talk about rewarding failure that is exactly what this state has done to you know who to the tune of billions and expect bus drivers to pay for it. is what is happening here.

Trampas

Is this strike going to run everyday until it is resolved or are drivers going to work tomorrow and strike again another day?

mrmac

Thanks folks, for the suggestions, but the only alternative that gets me there in time is using Ulster Bus (via Belfast). Takes ages, but seems my only choice; that is if the strike continues???

cdebru

Victor wrote: »

Then the staff and unions need to work 'smarter'. There is a limited pot of money and a specified requirement for savings. As additional income is difficult to obtain, those savings can come from pay related items or they can come from other things. The staff and unions need to identify other savings if they don't want pay to be cut. It may not be the staff and unions' fault, but it is their problem.

For example, with the new ticket machines with the thermal printers, a Bus Éireann ticket is twice the size of Dublin Bus ticket. Changing the spacing on the ticket would cut the paper cost in two.

When I was in Cork a few weeks ago, I was on two trips where the "driver's mate" scenario was delaying services. That needs to be knocked on the head - it is unsafe (driver is distracted and can't see out left doors / mirrors properly) and annoys passengers, driving them to other transport options.

At Busáras, drivers at Gate 14 (Luas stop) refuse to pull all they way to the front, making pulling-in difficult for other drivers also delaying services.


The public service obligation amount paid by the National Transport Authority (ultimately from the Department of Transport) isn't linked to the amount paid from the Department of Social Protection for the Free Travel Pass.

Because if you want he government to fund that €5million, it has to come off something else - health, education, etc.

Surely it is up to management to find an acceptable and fair way to implement any changes, it is not the function of a union to manage the company for them.


BTW

Why whenever a top banker is revealed to be earning absurd amount of money some government minister is wheeled out to say it is his contract can't be changed shrugs shoulders " nothing we can do" unfortunately. Yet bus drivers in BE also have a contract but apparently BE can change said contract whenever they choose without any agreement?

Eh someone is lying either contracts can be changed without agreement or they can't which is it?

wotausername

are city/town services affected by the strike aswell?

Victor

wotausername wrote: »

are city/town services affected by the strike aswell?

Those operated by Bus Éireann, yes.

whitebriar

bk wrote: »

Unfortunately given that wages make up over 60% of Bus Eireanns operating expenses, then yes the only real option is to cut wages.

Of course, other areas should also be looked at like the marketing budget, buying new coaches, management wages, etc.

However even if you cut all of these, you would still have to cut drivers and mechanics wages due to the fact that they make up by far the largest expense at the company.

Do you continue to cut wages though to compensate for the rise in other costs,which if you've cut wages are obviously going to be the loss maker culprit going forward.

That won't work either.

Something will give in the other direction too,incentive to work being one.
That's the flip side of the question 'where do we stop Putting the money in.

The way I see it hard questions need solving.
We the taxpayer either set a level of service we won't go below,a fair wage for this and freeze it.
We either want these bus routes or we don't.

I'm not party to any discussions but both sides and especially the government aren't managing.Time to be thinking outside of the box before we have a bigger bill at BE.

devnull

We the taxpayer either set a level of service we won't go below,a fair wage for this and freeze it.
We either want these bus routes or we don't.

If it was a fair wage though and people were badly paid with terrible terms and conditions I think most people would agree, but the facts are that the terms and conditions that the striking staff get many people lost a long time ago or in a lot of case some never had because their companies, who are not funded by the state simply could not afford to carry them on anymore.

Taxpayers are not happy about paying for some people to have terms and condition in the public sector that are not sustainable in the current climate. Stuff like having paid meal allowances should not exist, overtime should not be being used constantly as that is not what over-time is supposed to be for and a lot of the allowances that are paid are way out of whack to what is going on elsewhere.

I keep hearing that the terms and conditions would not be fair, but the staff in Bus Eireann, Irish rail and Dublin Bus are paid a good percentage more than people doing the same jobs in the private sector and in comparison to other countries where the same jobs are carried out.

And you know that angers the workers who lost all of the terms and conditions years ago or never had that you guys are trying to hold on to? Not only do you want to keep those when everyone else has lost them, you want more of the taxpayers money ploughed into the company just to rub it in, the money from the people who have it far less better than you.

As said before I have sympathy with staff to some degree as I do indeed believe that management can do more to put less of the burden on the front line staff and that is a problem, but the front line staff cannot go on thinking they are not going to make aby contribution because quite simply they have to, if they don't realise that then my sympathy will run out.

Benny_Cake

This may sound like a stupid question but I just want to rule it out - are other transport providers (Irish Rail, private bus operators) accepting Bus Eireann annual Taxsaver tickets? I'm guessing the answer is no.

devnull

Latest statement from the NBRU General Secretary is saying that they are concerned at the Minister for Transports comments that the union should look for alternative cost saving measures and has said that is never going to happen. This is in addition to saying a couple of days ago that there was no way they would accept any cuts. It seems they just wish to carry on as is.

Needless to say it looks like this could drag on a while yet unfortunately

Del2005

whitebriar wrote: »

Its a Public Service,Publically owned bus company,so why aren't the government increasing the subvention by the measley 5 million it's currently losing and freezing all wages at current levels,Pegging future fare rises/falls to what happens from this day out to all other costs,and following that with a discussion on profit sharing with the employee's?

cdebru wrote: »

But it is not losing money, if it had the SAME money it received the previous year from state for the PSO it would be ok. It is not about asking for more it is actually asking for just the same amount despite the rise in costs of fuel etc.

The issues are that the state wants to pay less for the same service and the company want the shift workers to carry the can for it.

If you want to talk about rewarding failure that is exactly what this state has done to you know who to the tune of billions and expect bus drivers to pay for it. is what is happening here.

The country doesn't have the €5 million to give. The total tax take for Ireland it ~€30bn and we spend ~€50, how is that sustainable?

cdebru wrote: »

Surely it is up to management to find an acceptable and fair way to implement any changes, it is not the function of a union to manage the company for them.

The unions where happy enough to agree with management when money was being thrown at them through social partnership. Now they have to prove their worth and try and save their members jobs as that's what's on the line here, lower working conditions or no work when the company goes bust.

It's no good saying no we won't accept pay and allowance cuts unless they offer an alternative that'll save a similar amount without affecting pay and conditions. The problem is that there's nothing that save that much.

the_syco

mrmac wrote: »

Does anyone know how long the stike is expected to last?
Desperately trying to work out alternative transport to Dublin Airport, for a dawn flight Tuesday morning!

Check the trains?
http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4820&ci=6&p=116&n=131

Iarnród Éireann Irish Rail has advised customers that train services are operating normally, and are not affected by industrial action at Bus Éireann.

Iarnród Éireann is not a party to this dispute.

Check the route using translink.co.uk (random day), on the off chance that the bus companies depend on BE drivers?

=-=

€60 to fly from Donegal at 17:10 to Dublin 18:00 on Monday (found it on skyscanner.ie).

mrmac

the_syco wrote: »

Check the trains?
http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4820&ci=6&p=116&n=131

Check the route using translink.co.uk (random day), on the off chance that the bus companies depend on BE drivers?

=-=

€60 to fly from Donegal at 17:10 to Dublin 18:00 on Monday (found it on skyscanner.ie).

Trains???
Means I'd still have to get to either Sligo or Belfast, but either way, won't get me there in time.

Translink / Goldline, this is the all night trek that I will probably have to take. 2 hours to Belfast, 2 hour wait, 2 hours to Airport, 3 hour wait - but looks like only choice.

Getting the plane is a no-no, as my college exam isn't over until 5.30pm, and I reckon I'm going to need every second!

Thanks anyway!

BTW - I've posted a "longshot" in the Donegal forum, in case anyone has a spare seat going to the airport Tuesday morning - no harmin asking .....

sofireland

Benny_Cake wrote: »

This may sound like a stupid question but I just want to rule it out - are other transport providers (Irish Rail, private bus operators) accepting Bus Eireann annual Taxsaver tickets? I'm guessing the answer is no.

Was thinking the same myself. Nothing mentioned on any of the other CIE sites.
Myself and the missus now have to drive to M3 parkway to get the train in for as long as this goes on.
Considering we both shell out 2.5k for our Tax Saver passes would we be able to claim money back from BE?

schemingbohemia

sofireland wrote: »

Was thinking the same myself. Nothing mentioned on any of the other CIE sites.
Myself and the missus now have to drive to M3 parkway to get the train in for as long as this goes on.
Considering we both shell out 2.5k for our Tax Saver passes would we be able to claim money back from BE?

Claim the money back from the NBRU!

Sierra Oscar

The General Secretary of the NBRU has signalled that he expects that the strike will spread throughout CIÉ if it is allowed continue. That would shut down Iarnród Éireann, Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann.

Victor

sofireland wrote: »

Considering we both shell out 2.5k for our Tax Saver passes would we be able to claim money back from BE?

You should be entitled to a refund calculated on a daily basis from whoever supplied the ticket.