Bus Eireann strike - services have resumed (Read first post)

dublinman1990

For those of you who live in The North West; it appears local services in that area are running as normal today.

http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=1296&month=May

The services are between Dunagloe & Donegal, Dooagh & Westport and Strokestown & Carrick-On-Shannon. Also Translink services from Belfast, Derry with Ex Dublin running from Custom House Quay. GOBE Services are expected to run normally as well.

At least it is better than nothing, Even though it is not much.

Mrs OBumble

Kumsheen wrote: »

I think the negotiations have gone on long enough and it's impossible to be resolved between BE and the unions themselves. It's probably better just to bring this to a head once and for all and be done with it..

With a labour court ruling, perhaps?

Kumsheen wrote: »

Anybody else have any predictions on the final outcome?

BÉ call an EGM because of their financial situation.

They decide to split into three different companies. The NTA implements emergency route-licensing procedures to allow these new companies to operate from the middle of next week - and also an emergency order making the subsidy for the public-service routes available to one of them.

All striking staff are indefinitely locked out from their existing company - which will never run bus services again - it exists only to lease buses and buildings to the new companies. Some staff are offered jobs with the new companies.




How's that for a prediction?

LeftBlank

kravmaga wrote: »

CEO lives in Dubai apparently. That says it all.

Important distinction but it's the Chairman of the board who lives in Dubai. A chairman wouldn't be involved in the day to day running of the business. Bit of a non-story really.

CreepingDeath

Ah feck... they're trying to drag Dublin Bus in on this too...

NBRU spokesman John Maloney said that staff at Iarnród Éireann and Dublin Bus want to become involved.

Irish Examiner Link

kravmaga

LeftBlank wrote: »

Important distinction but it's the Chairman of the board who lives in Dubai. A chairman wouldn't be involved in the day to day running of the business. Bit of a non-story really.

Touchy touchy..... are you a bus driver?

devnull

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

With a labour court ruling, perhaps?

They've already rejected one of them.

schemingbohemia

kravmaga wrote: »

Touchy touchy..... are you a bus driver?

I don't know if s/he is but it's hardly toucy touchy it's stating a fact, something that you mis-represented. You do understand the difference between a CEO and a Chairman? Plus the fact that the Chairman paid for his own travel expenses, just another non-story from the Irish Independent.

devnull

He's only paid about 10,000 a year anyway as he's a non executive Chairman, it's not like he's earning anywhere near what the executive directors and the CEO must be.

Mrs OBumble

LeinsterDub wrote: »

What are Equalisation allowance and Outbased Allowance ?

In general, equalisation applies when you're forced to move from one job to one that pays less. You still get paid the same amount, but it's made up of the pay from the lower-paid job, and an equalisation allowance that makes up the difference.

As times goes by, any payrises you get decrease the amount of equaliation allowance that is paid.

And sometimes it's timebound, ie the EA only applied for X years.

Victor

kravmaga wrote: »

Touchy touchy..... are you a bus driver?

None of your business.

Moderator

Victor

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

it exists only to lease ... buildings to the new companies.

CIÉ, not the subsidiaries, own 99% of all the land and buildings.

The only thing Irish Rail owns is it's Belfast office.

devnull

Latest:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/union-warns-bus-strike-will-continue-unless-labour-court-intervenes-29262286.html

We haven’t had a word from anybody. Nobody contacted us and we won’t be contacting them I’ve never known a trade union to look for a meeting, and neither would I expect them to knock on the door. One third-party or another invites somebody to talks. Who’s preventing that from happening?

Nothing will happen until somebody, the Labour Court or Labour Relations Commission, invite the parties to talks. If that doesn’t happen, we’ll be in the same position a week from now.

What is the point in going to the Labour Court, considering it's authority has now been undermined since they've already requested the Labour Court to look at it once, and they didn't like the outcome so they decided to ignore it and go out on strike anyway.

Don't tell me, they'll go back, if the court doesn't rule in their favour they'll carry on the strike. Or if they do rule in their favour they'll say that BE have to accept it because it is a recommendation made, despite the fact they ignored it when it didn't suit them.

If BE don't implement they'll say what a disgrace it is that they don't go with what has been recommended, despite the fact they also ignored the recommendation the first time around which makes them complete hypocrites.

It seems these days the court is a waste of time because people are happy to go to it, but if the result doesn't go in their favour they just disregard it.

the_syco

devnull wrote: »

But that is why they are paid PSO subsidy and have state paid for vehicles on such routes.

Oh, I agree with you, but the bullsh|t of "...if this was a private company...". If it were a private company it would have stopped with the tender.

bk wrote: »

Will this end up breaking the contract between GoBus and BE? Maybe GoBus will switch to operating from these stops permanently.

I'd say GoBus will be looking for compensation over loss of earnings due to the strikes.

devnull wrote: »

They've already rejected one of them.

They've rejected a recommendation or a ruling? I thought it was a recommendation that they rejected "as it was only a recommendation".

Kumsheen wrote: »

Anybody else have any predictions on the final outcome?

A fight breaks out between strikers and the general public that are trying to get to college for exams, and the strikers get out of the way of the 3rd party operators.

=-=

If Dublin Bus and Irish Rail also on strike, I'd wonder how much backing the rest of the public sector will give them if it goes on for too long?

miller50841

It's about time workers fight back and stand up for what was better conditions to the absolutley terrible ones they had previously.
Don't give back what was near impossible to get in the 1st place.
Been a bus driver is no easy job or a truck driver. I understand physically not hard as in no heavy work or so on but mentally tiring and stressful also among other things.

I find some of the posts funny and saw a small bit of the midday show on tv3 they were talking such rubbish they didn't have a clue.

The next thing to happen will be Dublin Bus and Irish Rail to walk off the job in support and also to fight for their conditions which are under threat.

I can't believe what I hear some saying that let the driver's go there are plenty that would love that job well why didn't anyone want them job's back 4 or 5 years ago, answer because if you were in that job you were looked down upon as being someone that wasn't educated or it was a rubbish job.

Best of luck to all the lads and lasies fighting for whats right.
Hopefully it will be resolved soon as most will understand they are not getting paid while out

bureau2009

My Bus Eireann annual ticket cost me about 2,000 euros!

Will I get a refund for the period I am unable to use it due to strike action? I've already had to fork out for a weekly ticket on a private bus.

miller50841

bureau2009 wrote: »

My Bus Eireann annual ticket cost me about 2,000 euros!

Will I get a refund for the period I am unable to use it due to strike action? I've already had to fork out for a weekly ticket on a private bus.

No don't see how you would.
Unless it goes on for months but by that stage the company will be gone so then ticket will be worthless.

Tarabuses

markpb wrote: »

I thought that was illegal?

Yes, but it has happened before.

ixoy

miller50841 wrote: »

.Best of luck to all the lads and lasies fighting for whats right.
Hopefully it will be resolved soon as most will understand they are not getting paid while out

Putting aside the dubious notion of "what's right" in a recession, what do you actually think can be done if there's not enough money? Where can it come from to plug the gap in the finances? Because it can't keep growing so somehow, somewhere the money needs to be brought in or costs elsewhere reduced. Not addressing this key point is getting people (literally) nowhere.

runawaybishop

miller50841 wrote: »

It's about time workers fight back and stand up for what was better conditions to the absolutley terrible ones they had previously.
Don't give back what was near impossible to get in the 1st place.
Been a bus driver is no easy job or a truck driver. I understand physically not hard as in no heavy work or so on but mentally tiring and stressful also among other things.

I find some of the posts funny and saw a small bit of the midday show on tv3 they were talking such rubbish they didn't have a clue.

The next thing to happen will be Dublin Bus and Irish Rail to walk off the job in support and also to fight for their conditions which are under threat.

I can't believe what I hear some saying that let the driver's go there are plenty that would love that job well why didn't anyone want them job's back 4 or 5 years ago, answer because if you were in that job you were looked down upon as being someone that wasn't educated or it was a rubbish job.

Best of luck to all the lads and lasies fighting for whats right.
Hopefully it will be resolved soon as most will understand they are not getting paid while out

Did you even look at the recommendations? They seem completely reasonable.

doubletrouble?

the_syco wrote: »

=-=

If Dublin Bus and Irish Rail also on strike, I'd wonder how much backing the rest of the public sector will give them if it goes on for too long?

To put it quite eimply.
The strike would be over in a matter of days rather than weeks. No doubt the public sector are backning the drivers. After all they're all in the same boat. All being hit with wage cuts.

Kumsheen

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

BÉ call an EGM because of their financial situation.

They decide to split into three different companies. The NTA implements emergency route-licensing procedures to allow these new companies to operate from the middle of next week - and also an emergency order making the subsidy for the public-service routes available to one of them.

All striking staff are indefinitely locked out from their existing company - which will never run bus services again - it exists only to lease buses and buildings to the new companies. Some staff are offered jobs with the new companies.



How's that for a prediction?

Interesting. Do you think the govt have the balls to do something this radical? I just can't think of a previous example.

BTW, the opposition parties seem to be very quiet on this dispute so far.

BenShermin

I see GoBÉ have cancelled the rest of their service from Cork to Dublin today.

From Dublin to Cork it looks like the 1800 ex airport 1830 ex Dublin will be the last bus of the evening with anything after that cancelled.

GoBÉ are citing safety reasons for the cancelations.

Luap

BenShermin wrote: »

I see GoBÉ have cancelled the rest of their service from Cork to Dublin today.

From Dublin to Cork it looks like the 1800 ex airport 1830 ex Dublin will be the last bus of the evening with anything after that cancelled.

GoBÉ are citing safety reasons for the cancelations.

Why doesnt someone call the Gardai to sort out the unruly bus drivers.

Sierra Oscar

Luap wrote: »

Why doesnt someone call the Gardai to sort out the unruly bus drivers.

The Gardai were called and arrived on the scene, and left shorty afterwards.

Bus Eireann strike escalates in Cork

There has been an escalation of the Bus Eireann workers' dispute in Cork.

Members of the National Bus and Rail Workers Union are blocking a scheduled "GoBus" service from departing.

The Gardaí were called to the scene, but have since left.

dublinstevie

Luap wrote: »

Why doesnt someone call the Gardai to sort out the unruly bus drivers.

Fanny

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

Latest:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/union-warns-bus-strike-will-continue-unless-labour-court-intervenes-29262286.html



What is the point in going to the Labour Court, considering it's authority has now been undermined since they've already requested the Labour Court to look at it once, and they didn't like the outcome so they decided to ignore it and go out on strike anyway.

Don't tell me, they'll go back, if the court doesn't rule in their favour they'll carry on the strike. Or if they do rule in their favour they'll say that BE have to accept it because it is a recommendation made, despite the fact they ignored it when it didn't suit them.

If BE don't implement they'll say what a disgrace it is that they don't go with what has been recommended, despite the fact they also ignored the recommendation the first time around which makes them complete hypocrites.

It seems these days the court is a waste of time because people are happy to go to it, but if the result doesn't go in their favour they just disregard it.

It is non binding, you could argue the exact same thing with CPA2 but Kevin Mulvey is working away trying to get an agreement with the unions that rejected the labour court proposals. It happens all the time.

devnull

RE: cdebru
But my point is if it was the other way around and BE refused to implement the recommendation and the unions wanted it, then the unions would not be happy with and would not be shy to make their feelings known about that.

If they do get their wish and go back to the court then what does it achieve if it's not binding, BE could just stonewall the recommendation, just like the union did to the previous one.

RE: GoBus
That is quite disgusting what is going on there nobody should be intimidated whether that is passengers or staff, if that is what is going on. These staff don't even work for Bus Eireann so they are not even involved in the dispute at the end of the day. Such behaviour is not acceptable in my view and nobody whoever they are should feel their safety is at risk.

It's a really short sighted move, do they really think that it is going to help their cause? All that will happen now is they will have annoyed a lot of passengers on such service who will now have a poor image of BE and they will go right over the road and use Aircoach and may never come back. How does the benefit their company?

end of the road

miller50841 wrote: »

The next thing to happen will be Dublin Bus and Irish Rail to walk off the job in support and also to fight for their conditions which are under threat.

i don't think they will to be honest

miller50841 wrote: »

I can't believe what I hear some saying that let the driver's go there are plenty that would love that job

its a tactic used to try inflame public sector workers and their supporters, used by those who have a hatred of them, truth is those of that opinion wouldn't be good enough to be a bus or train driver.

miller50841 wrote: »

well why didn't anyone want them job's back 4 or 5 years ago, answer because if you were in that job you were looked down upon as being someone that wasn't educated or it was a rubbish job.

exactly, so they don't deserve them now

bk

So I went down to the Quays to see what was happening.

2pm there were two Aircoach coaches there, the first was filled to 95%, so no need for the second coach. The second coach was then used for 3pm and was also about 95% full. Aircoach had two staff there all the time, helping people out, answering questions, etc.

Pretty excellent customer service.

Saw the 11am ex-Dublin Aircoach arrive, about 40 on board.

Citylink 2:15 was about 75% full and the Citylink that arrived from Limerick looked equally busy.

Was surprised to not see the 2:30 GoBE arrive on the quays. Now I see that all the GoBE services for today have been cancelled!!

I did see a GoBE circle around the bus station around the time, so it most have been called off last minute.

Disgraceful carry on, that BE drivers are putting the lively hood of other private drivers in jeopardy, drivers who are on much lower wages and conditions then the BE drivers would be on even after the cuts.

3 BE staff strolled by the quays with their placards by the Aircoach/Citylink stops, but didn't interfere and didn't stick around.

I wonder who made the decision on the GoBe service. Was it on instructions from the Gardai, or did BE pull out a clause in their contract or did GoBus just decide they didn't want the hassle?

Anyway it looks like Citylink and Aircoach are doing very well from all of this and might be gaining many new regular customers.

runawaybishop

end of the road wrote: »

its a tactic used to try inflame public sector workers and their supporters, used by those who have a hatred of them, truth is those of that opinion wouldn't be good enough to be a bus or train driver.

"Hatred" is a bit of an exaggeration. You aren't doing yourself any favours with your responses.

The cuts seems reasonable, the unions seem to have no interest in resolving issues that are required for anyone to have jobs in the future and now BE staff are interfering with private operators. Talk about self sabotage.

cdebru

To the BE staff posting here, have you asked your union reps why they did not seek legal recourse when BE announced that they would unilaterally change the terms of your contract ?

Would it not have been better to engage a barrister and apply for an injunction preventing BE from breaching the contract they have with you? If your union is unwilling to do so and unable to offer any reasonable explanation as to why they went to the gate instead of the courts would you not consider bypassing your union and collectively engaging a barrister to apply for an injunction?

For what it is worth I think you are being stitched up here, Siptu have not even balloted you on industrial action, the NBRU may or may not have given the required notice. And neither off them have apparently sought to clarify your rights before the courts when an unilateral change was made to your contracts.
Both sides claim to be available for talks but oddly the LRC nor the Labour court have offered to mediate this is really strange.

IMO you guys are being led up the garden path here, They will leave you outside the gate and you will agree to a slightly modified deal after a week or two without any money. 17.5% accepted the deal already available they are gambling that 33% more will soften their cough after a week or 2 of no money.

runawaybishop

cdebru wrote: »

To the BE staff posting here, have you asked your union reps why they did not seek legal recourse when BE announced that they would unilaterally change the terms of your contract ?

Would it not have been better to engage a barrister and apply for an injunction preventing BE from breaching the contract they have with you? If your union is unwilling to do so and unable to offer any reasonable explanation as to why they went to the gate instead of the courts would you not consider bypassing your union and collectively engaging a barrister to apply for an injunction?

For what it is worth I think you are being stitched up here, Siptu have not even balloted you on industrial action, the NBRU may or may not have given the required notice. And neither off them have apparently sought to clarify your rights before the courts when an unilateral change was made to your contracts.
Both sides claim to be available for talks but oddly the LRC nor the Labour court have offered to mediate this is really strange.

IMO you guys are being led up the garden path here, They will leave you outside the gate and you will agree to a slightly modified deal after a week or two without any money. 17.5% accepted the deal already available they are gambling that 33% more will soften their cough after a week or 2 of no money.

So, no deal is made and BE continue to make a massive loss resulting in closure and loss of all jobs. A great outcome for all involved.

rainbowdash

Kumsheen wrote: »

I think the negotiations have gone on long enough and it's impossible to be resolved between BE and the unions themselves. It's probably better just to bring this to a head once and for all and be done with it..

It's really now down to either increased funding or cuts, and the ball is really in the government's court rather than with BE management.

The union is gambling on government intervention to resolve this. My prediction is that the govt will partially give in and we will see some watered down version of cuts eventually agreed.
But the long term effects of this dispute will probably see the govt expedite the opening up more and more bus licenses to private operators, and gradually shrink BE more and more.

Anybody else have any predictions on the final outcome?

I think the ball is not in the governments court, as its a commercial organisation which can be allowed fail.

By the sounds of things, Bus Eireann could easily be let go to the wall, and new privately run bus companies established quite easily, with grants for services in whichever areas need buses.

Deep down I bet the government are delighted that the pan public services front put the bus drivers into bat first, as they can be kept at arms length and allowed to collapse if necessary, and that might calm the rest of the public sector workers.

cdebru

runawaybishop wrote: »

So, no deal is made and BE continue to make a massive loss resulting in closure and loss of all jobs. A great outcome for all involved.

No the company re enter the negotiations they withdrew from 2 weeks ago, and they secure a deal acceptable to all parties. They might start by management taking a hit on their wages as a show of good faith.

rainbowdash

runawaybishop wrote: »

So, no deal is made and BE continue to make a massive loss resulting in closure and loss of all jobs. A great outcome for all involved.

Very few jobs would be lost. Private operators would run all the services probably better, and for less taxpayer funding, employing broadly as many people as bus eireann employ now.

cdebru

rainbowdash wrote: »

I think the ball is not in the governments court, as its a commercial organisation which can be allowed fail.

By the sounds of things, Bus Eireann could easily be let go to the wall, and new privately run bus companies established quite easily, with grants for services in whichever areas need buses.

Deep down I bet the government are delighted that the pan public services front put the bus drivers into bat first, as they can be kept at arms length and allowed to collapse if necessary, and that might calm the rest of the public sector workers.

I have a feeling that it is not just the government that are delighted at how things are progressing, bus drivers heading back to work after a few weeks with no pay and a barely changed deal, would be nice for the leadership of those unions whose members defied them by rejecting CPA2. It might convince some to accept the new slightly improved CPA2.

runawaybishop

cdebru wrote: »

No the company re enter the negotiations they withdrew from 2 weeks ago, and they secure a deal acceptable to all parties. They might start by management taking a hit on their wages as a show of good faith.

Why don't they cut out the bollocks and get straight to this then.

rainbowdash wrote: »

Very few jobs would be lost. Private operators would run all the services probably better, and for less taxpayer funding, employing broadly as many people as bus eireann employ now.

Sounds like a winner for the public tbh, not for the BE employee.

rainbowdash

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why don't they cut out the bollocks and get straight to this then.



Sounds like a winner for the public tbh, not for the BE employee.

That's upto himself really, he could accept the job he has with some reduction in pay and conditions, or maybe look for a new job in a private operator where he would almost definitely be paid a lot less.

He is working in a loss making company and his job is no longer viable, people seem to forget that once state employees of Aer Lingus eventually ended up with "green field" employment, where all the benefits were stripped away and their pay reduced greatly.

As commercial operations Aer Lingus and Bus Eireann are not a million miles apart.

cdebru

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why don't they cut out the bollocks and get straight to this then.



.

Why indeed, maybe because they think the drivers will accept a less favourable deal after a few weeks with no pay and they are setting an example for the other CIE companies.

NobodyImportant

@BE staff, you need a reality check. If this were a private business, you would now be out of work. EVERYONE in this country needs to take a hit and work through this mess (without blaming and sidetracking).

Your cause is not supported by the majority of the country.

Dont forget the Unions actions in the 70's & 80's in the UK. They took a successful car industry and ruined it striking.

Problem123456

NobodyImportant wrote: »

@BE staff, you need a reality check. If this were a private business, you would now be out of work. EVERYONE in this country needs to take a hit and work through this mess (without blaming and sidetracking).

Your cause is not supported by the majority of the country.

Dont forget the Unions actions in the 70's & 80's in the UK. They took a successful car industry and ruined it striking.

I agree^^
Give them until Wednesday and if they still don't want to work let them go.

runawaybishop

cdebru wrote: »

Why indeed, maybe because they think the drivers will accept a less favourable deal after a few weeks with no pay and they are setting an example for the other CIE companies.

Isn't the deal offered pretty reasonable though

Jamie2k9

i don't think they will to be honest

Either do I, if Irish Rail staff want to keep there current wages and not be subject to such cuts as BE staff are then they will stay working as IE position was worse last year and something like this won't help it and staff know this. But then if all CIE operators want job cuts then why not walk off. It will be one way of getting the numbers employed down.

There will be jobs cuts at BE over this and employees and the NBRU need to wake up and unerstand it.

devnull

Apparently they have been invited to the LRC for talks this evening.

If the unions get something in their favour expect them to try and make out that it should be almost binding on the company

If they don't get them in their favour expect them to just ignore whatever happens.

LETS BE AVN IT

This is some joke I'm stuck in Waterford needing to get to cork by tomorrow for an exam. This is disgraceful it cant go on any longer

devnull

LETS BE AVN IT wrote: »

This is some joke I'm stuck in Waterford needing to get to cork by tomorrow for an exam. This is disgraceful it cant go on any longer

I know it's not really that ideal, but have you considered getting two trains?
Waterford to Limerick Junction
and
Limerick Junction to Cork?

I'm not sure if the times suit, but it's an option.

Peppa Pig

LETS BE AVN IT wrote: »

This is some joke I'm stuck in Waterford needing to get to cork by tomorrow for an exam. This is disgraceful it cant go on any longer

Not sure if its any help but there is an early morning car share here.
Getthere.ie

cdebru

runawaybishop wrote: »

Isn't the deal offered pretty reasonable though

What ? those on shifts take all the cuts while management grades that don't work overtime or shifts don't lose a penny.

Yeah very reasonable for those well paid managers.

Actually IMO the company should be completely reorganised and some severe cuts in the number of managers and middle management. I would look at why a company supposedly in danger of going out of business is sponsoring events like the womens football league, Feile, a track cyclist, Christmas on ICE, why they have corporate boxes at Croke Park and the Aviva, why the CEO is paid more than government ministers,
In fact google BE and sponsors and you will see all the sponsorship they have been up to at a time when the company have been racking up losses. Does it add anything to the business how many people get the bus because they sponsor Keira in voice of Ireland ?
I would look at all that and I'm sure there is massive waste in BE address that manage the company properly and then go back to the drivers if you still have a problem.

hoodwinked

if it is a financial issue what i could never understand is why there isn't more in/on bus advertising? they have so much space to sell if they need the cash that badly...

if it isn't then why are they cutting the wages?

either way i hope this gets resolved soon and those drivers don't end up losing their jobs, they have some fantastic drivers in BE from my experience with them...

runawaybishop

cdebru wrote: »

What ? those on shifts take all the cuts while management grades that don't work overtime or shifts don't lose a penny.

Yeah very reasonable for those well paid managers.

Actually IMO the company should be completely reorganised and some severe cuts in the number of managers and middle management. I would look at why a company supposedly in danger of going out of business is sponsoring events like the womens football league, Feile, a track cyclist, Christmas on ICE, why they have corporate boxes at Croke Park and the Aviva, why the CEO is paid more than government ministers,
In fact google BE and sponsors and you will see all the sponsorship they have been up to at a time when the company have been racking up losses. Does it add anything to the business how many people get the bus because they sponsor Keira in voice of Ireland ?
I would look at all that and I'm sure there is massive waste in BE address that manage the company properly and then go back to the drivers if you still have a problem.

Cuts to lunch money, overtime rate and holidays - these are not totally unreasonable. Im not sayign management shouldnt be involved also, but the cuts suggested by LR were not unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination.

Who the hell gets lunch money from their employer these days anyway.