Bus Eireann strike - services have resumed (Read first post)

devnull

I agree that there is a lot of waste in Bus Eireann and the above highlighted things do need to be cut back, but at the end of the day there still will need to be some kind of contribution from front line staff to make up some of the 5 million.

cdebru

runawaybishop wrote: »

Cuts to lunch money, overtime rate and holidays - these are not totally unreasonable. Im not sayign management shouldnt be involved also, but the cuts suggested by LR were not unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination.

Who the hell gets lunch money from their employer these days anyway.

Cuts to overtime rates and holidays are unreasonable when there is so much money being wasted and it is only focussed on the shift workers. Especially as I understand some overtime is built into shifts so it is effectively compulsary overtime.

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

I agree that there is a lot of waste in Bus Eireann and the above highlighted things do need to be cut back, but at the end of the day there still will need to be some kind of contribution from front line staff to make up some of the 5 million.

Agreed a fair contribution though. Not one that takes just from the shift workers and leaves all the waste in place.

Stheno

cdebru wrote: »

Cuts to overtime rates and holidays are unreasonable when there is so much money being wasted and it is only focussed on the shift workers. Especially as I understand some overtime is built into shifts so it is effectively compulsary overtime.

But aren't the admin/executive staff also facing cuts?

The recommendation from the LRC was for

An increase in the working week for clerical and executive staff from 36 hours to 39 hours
Reduction in premium payments (such as Sunday payments) to be x1.5 payments rather than double payments
Reduction in annual leave entitlement by 3 days for the next three years
Reduction in allowances and expense payments by 20 per cent

So clerical/executive staff are having to work 8% more time for no extra pay and their leave entitlement is also being cut?

Mrs OBumble

LETS BE AVN IT wrote: »

This is some joke I'm stuck in Waterford needing to get to cork by tomorrow for an exam. This is disgraceful it cant go on any longer

Try Twitter ... #liftfairy

end of the road

NobodyImportant wrote: »

@BE staff, you need a reality check. If this were a private business, you would now be out of work.

well it isn't a private business, so get over it, apart from competition, the private sector isn't the problem of drivers working in the public transport companies

NobodyImportant wrote: »

EVERYONE in this country needs to take a hit and work through this mess (without blaming and sidetracking).

well it seems everyone doesn't have to take a hit, how much of a hit are BE, IE, DB, management taking?

NobodyImportant wrote: »

Your cause is not supported by the majority of the country.

have you asked the majority of the country? i suspect you may be right but lets face it, the majority of the country wouldn't support anyone private or public sector who would try keep a certain standard of pay and working conditions.
the truth is much of the general public will sit there and take whatever is thrown at them no matter how much they would have to lose and would look down on those trying to keep what they have.
remember yes to jobs anyone? a reason not to take some of the public seriously in this country

NobodyImportant wrote: »

Dont forget the Unions actions in the 70's & 80's in the UK. They took a successful car industry and ruined it striking.

i'm sure their were a lot more things at play but shur just blame the unions for it all anyway.

end of the road

Problem123456 wrote: »

Give them until Wednesday and if they still don't want to work let them go.

and tax you more to pay for their dole, good idea, its not as if you'l try do anything about it apart from pay up

Agent Mug

The real problem here is the government everything was moving along nicely at meeting between management and unions up until a few weeks back when management walk into the last meeting they had and told unions that they where implementing these new cuts and walk out of the meeting, outside of the meeting room management on the quiet told unions that their hand where tied by the government and these cuts are going ahead whether the unions like it or not, this is not what management in Bus Eireann wanted to happen because talks where moving along in a progressive way.

The sad thing about all of this is this is not just Bus Eireann Drivers that is going to be hit with more cut back but all of us and there will be more to come, it's time now for all the unions in our country to join together and all out, the future of the working class people in our country is been threaten and it time we all stood up to the bully's in government, the cost of living keep going up while the fat cats in government keeps cutting our wages, but they're well look after for all they have to do is do what the other fat cats in government did walk away with their big fat pensions.

Its time we show all the political party that we're not going to suffer anymore cuts for their stupidity and yea I know government of today inherit the problem and now they're only adding to it, wake up people and let put a stop to this madness once and for all, enough is enough.

All Out.

end of the road

devnull wrote: »

I know it's not really that ideal, but have you considered getting two trains?
Waterford to Limerick Junction
and
Limerick Junction to Cork?

I'm not sure if the times suit, but it's an option.

beat me to it

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Agent Mug wrote: »

The real problem here is the government everything was moving along nicely at meeting between management and unions up until a few weeks back when management walk into the last meeting they had and told unions that they where implementing these new cuts and walk out of the meeting, outside of the meeting room management on the quiet told unions that their hand where tied by the government and these cuts are going ahead whether the unions like it or not, this is not what management in Bus Eireann wanted to happen because talks where moving along in a progressive way.

The sad thing about all of this is this is not just Bus Eireann Drivers that is going to be hit with more cut back but all of us and there will be more to come, it's time now for all the unions in our country to join together and all out, the future of the working class people in our country is been threaten and it time we all stood up to the bully's in government, the cost of living keep going up while the fat cats in government keeps cutting our wages, but they're well look after for all they have to do is do what the other fat cats in government did walk away with their big fat pensions.

Its time we show all the political party that we're not going to suffer anymore cuts for their stupidity and yea I know government of today inherit the problem and now they're only adding to it, wake up people and let put a stop to this madness once and for all, enough is enough.

All Out.

Off topic but can you provide a legitimate source for this information?

I think its extremely unfair that management aren't taking any cuts while the front line are bearing the brunt. I think the LRCs recommendations are mostly ok, but it was foolish of management to not impose some sort of cut on themselves. I mean surely they saw this type of response coming? How could they not?

miller50841

runawaybishop wrote: »

Did you even look at the recommendations? They seem completely reasonable.

Yes I did and noticed a lot of the stuff been put out there and all the rumours that drivers are on such high inflated wages is a joke.
Even talking about longer hours where that is for clerical staff working 36 up to 39hours.

There are a lot of areas to save money as in start interlinking with the trains and bring fares down so to get more to travel.
The tax rebate on fuel was scrapped.
Cut down the number of journey's off peak that aren't carrying.
Overall the complete system needs an overhaul as it's set back in the 60s-70s.
Including the payment system set up for paying for free travel which is under estimated.
Try and get the bus times/timetables to run smoother or give better running time.

I could keep going on.

Kumsheen

cdebru wrote: »

What ? those on shifts take all the cuts while management grades that don't work overtime or shifts don't lose a penny.

Yeah very reasonable for those well paid managers.

Actually IMO the company should be completely reorganised and some severe cuts in the number of managers and middle management. I would look at why a company supposedly in danger of going out of business is sponsoring events like the womens football league, Feile, a track cyclist, Christmas on ICE, why they have corporate boxes at Croke Park and the Aviva, why the CEO is paid more than government ministers,
In fact google BE and sponsors and you will see all the sponsorship they have been up to at a time when the company have been racking up losses. Does it add anything to the business how many people get the bus because they sponsor Keira in voice of Ireland ?
I would look at all that and I'm sure there is massive waste in BE address that manage the company properly and then go back to the drivers if you still have a problem.

Is there anybody familiar with with these kind of things able to put a ballpark estimate on the marketing/corporate/sponsorship/PR spend talked about here?
Are we talking millions?
Do they use expensive PR firms and consultants to advise them etc?

ressem

Cynthia Victorious Puppeteer wrote: »

Off topic but can you provide a legitimate source for this information?

I think its extremely unfair that management aren't taking any cuts while the front line are bearing the brunt. I think the LRCs recommendations are mostly ok, but it was foolish of management to not impose some sort of cut on themselves. I mean surely they saw this type of response coming? How could they not?

Is that true, or just distraction and fingerpointing.

http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/labcourtweb.nsf/185190278967d05380256a01005bb35e/80256a770034a2ab80257b0900428efa?OpenDocument

The drivers core pay is not cut, the clerical/executive core pay is not cut.

Sickies reduced by the same amount for both exec / clerical/ drivers.
Overtime decreased by the same percentages for both.
Double pay on public holidays going to One and a quarter.
Premium payments reduced by the same for both.
Allowances cut 20% for both.
Annual leave cut for both. 3 days p/a for 3 years.

Increase in working week for Clerical / exec staff of 3 hours.
Decrease in shift payments from 1/6th to 1/7th for drivers, to be re-instated if things improve (more passengers, cheaper fuel, savings elsewhere).

Yeah, the management work less Sundays and nights so currently do not achieve these payments above core pay.

devnull

But the fact is the average wage in Bus Eireann is around €50k and that includes around 500 part time school bus drivers, if you take them out of it the average will be much higher. That is not my opinion - that is in the audited accounts.

I think we all agree that the front line staff is not the only place where their needs to be cost saving made, but at the same time it's not realistic to suggest that front line staff should take no hit whatsoever it simply isn't viable.

Even if you hit management with say 6k each and there are 100 of them, that still only raises €600,000 out of €5,000,000

currins_02

I think a key problem as an observer is that BE staff (and indeed other CIE staff) for many years have acted like and been treated like full state employees which we are now being told they are not (as CIE/BE is "semi state"). We are being told in sound bites that they do not enjoy the protection and security enjoyed by public servants. Can anyone document how many BE staff have been sacked in the last year or 5 years even for misconduct of any sort? How does that figure compare to industry norms? These numbers must exist 9 even if it is a zero.

The effects of this move out into various things, such as the wanton abuse of DSP passes on BE services. A colleague of mine had to leave his previous employer of 7 years who was a BE "hacker" as he was banned from being used on BE work (that operators core business) after an inspector identified a person on board who's pass was invalid (they had a person with them who was not covered by the companion clause - don't want to get into nitty gritty of it as it wasn't me but that was the basis), how many BE staff have suffered sanction or any form of suspension for such? When there's no sanction such a problem is bound to exist. Such practises are endemic in what I can see. This all affects the cost base, which all affects the bottom line which is part of why we're where we're at.

That's not to say there are some excellent, conscientious, loyal BE drivers who diligently police passes day in day out in a dignified customer centred way, but I stress "SOME". My own mother travelled on 2 connecting expressway services recently across the country to visit a sick relative and on getting where she was going she realised she had taken my fathers pass and card (card and pass in same pouch as most people do). She had been checked by 2 drivers and a station inspector en route! She rang me and asked what would she do for returning and I said chance your arm, if there's a problem explain the case (and she had the number of, expiry date, a phone photo etc of her own pass) and worst case pay for it. Checked by 2 drivers on return leg and not a bother. When I say "checked" I mean she flashed the pass the driver/inspector nodded and on she went. Completely genuine case but if she could do that, how many more who haven't their own pass are abusing the system in worse ways? On some of the privates they actually take down the number and details of every pass, I beleive when using an NI pass on a BE cross border service the number is noted so why aren't they at least noted on express way and commuter services, maybe not city services for practical reasons, that is bound to save a considerable sum (and provide statistical information for lobbying for greater payments for pass passengers in future).

Some of the above slightly off topic but I think tenuosly relavant, apologies if viewed as that not being the case. If there was cohesive system, cohesive disciplinary systems (and based on a staff of 2,500 statistically there should have been dismissals in the last 5 years - it wouldn't be possible to employ 2,500 angels who are completely company centred) then my logic would tell me the cost base would be alot tighter and we wouldn't be needing to cut front line staff to the degree proposed. Twisted logic maybe?

BenShermin

Just watching RTÉ News there. Disgusting scenes in Cork this afternoon when NBRU picketers left Bus Éireann property to block a GoBÉ service on the middle of a busy city centre street. The GoBÉ service had already started it's journey to Dublin and the picketers surrounded the drivers cab and told him that he wouldn't be allowed to proceed until he emptied his bus of passengers. Passengers were later shown left on the side of the footpath and some were in obvious distress at the situation. (I'm not too sure, but I think this incident happened on McCurtain Street??, correct me if I'm wrong)

These thugs should have been arrested by Gardaí for breach of the peace imo. After this incident I don't think GoBÉ can survive anymore, especially if this strike escalates and the Bus Éireann brand becomes more poisonous. Go Bus is a well known and trusted brand, Go Bus should be able to go it alone on this route.

ixoy

cdebru wrote: »

Agreed a fair contribution though. Not one that takes just from the shift workers and leaves all the waste in place.

Would you be in favour of tiered core salary cuts instead, across the board rising the further you go up? That way management would take a higher cut and overtime premiums would be better protected.
That alongside savings in other areas, such as route amalgamation, etc.

Agent Mug

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Off topic but can you provide a legitimate source for this information?

I think its extremely unfair that management aren't taking any cuts while the front line are bearing the brunt. I think the LRCs recommendations are mostly ok, but it was foolish of management to not impose some sort of cut on themselves. I mean surely they saw this type of response coming? How could they not?

Management and Unions have always works very well together within the CIE groups but there is more than one Union there, this is just another dirty trick been play by the Government to force workers to take another pay cut, they're starting with Bus Eireann next will be Dublin Bus then the Trains, the public sector workers the Nurses the Teachers and whoever else come within the Government groups of employment, but I do agree with you Management have to take a share of the cuts but so to have the TD to take a very big share of the cuts, so where is it all going to end.

All Unions need to come together and All Out other wise the dirty tricks been play by the Government will just continue, there is no other way we all know these are tough time that we,re living in but why is it just the working class people that is always been hit, these actions taking by unions was force upon them by the Government not by the Management of Bus Eireann.

the_syco

miller50841 wrote: »

Including the payment system set up for paying for free travel which is under estimated.

I'd wonder if they'd make much savings/cut many route times if you limited the "free travel" to certain times? IE; cut times that would only be used by those with free passes.

devnull wrote: »

That is not my opinion - that is in the audited accounts.

Link please to such accounts, please?

BenShermin wrote: »

Just watching RTÉ News there. Disgusting scenes in Cork this afternoon when NBRU picketers left Bus Éireann property to block a GoBÉ service on the middle of a busy city centre street. The GoBÉ service had already started it's journey to Dublin and the picketers surrounded the drivers cab and told him that he wouldn't be allowed to proceed until he emptied his bus of passengers.

They're nothing short of bullies. I won't condone violence, but I hope they stop a bus full of those that will :pac:

miller50841

Where has any violence been used.

I never said anything about restricting time there are plenty of people using fake/forged passes and bringing their friends along for free when they only have the pass for themselves.
Also the pass for younger people with nothing wrong with them should be restricted that it's only used for important journey's obviously impossible to implement but you should get what I am tyring to say.

devnull

the_syco wrote: »

Link please to such accounts, please?

You can buy a copy of them at CRO.ie if you want the real accounts as they were submitted o the companies registration office, but there are some websites where you can get the basic details without paying.

Check it out here:
https://www.duedil.com/company/IE119570/bus-eireann-irish-bus/financials

If you can't see that, just sign up for an account (it's free).

You get the wages total and the staff, divide wages by staff and that should give you average pay.

cdebru

ixoy wrote: »

Would you be in favour of tiered core salary cuts instead, across the board rising the further you go up? That way management would take a higher cut and overtime premiums would be better protected.
That alongside savings in other areas, such as route amalgamation, etc.

I don't work for BE but the protecting core earnings that BE trots out effectively means shift workers take pay cuts while non shift keep all their current earnings.
If you have to do shift and work sundays and bank holidays and have overtime built into your roster then those payments are part of your core pay.

devnull

But as I've said before, overtime being built into rosters that people are working on a weekly basis is a sign of bad scheduling on behalf of the party who is doing so, because that is not what overtime is supposed to be for.

Overtime should be to cover events, high levels of sickness, unexpected high demand, disruption to service, that kind of thing, it shouldn't be something that is scheduled as happening every week of the year in any well managed company.

The fact is that this is not really overtime in the truest sense of the word, it's staff who are working regular scheduled hours every week who would rather have some of it classified as over-time rather than regular hours because it pays more.

By your own definition overtime is part of their normal pay, so if it's normal, and these hours as overtime are being counted as normal and regular, then the definition of overtime cannot apply since overtime is defined as "time someone works beyond normal working hours"

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

But the fact is the average wage in Bus Eireann is around €50k and that includes around 500 part time school bus drivers, if you take them out of it the average will be much higher. That is not my opinion - that is in the audited accounts.

I think we all agree that the front line staff is not the only place where their needs to be cost saving made, but at the same time it's not realistic to suggest that front line staff should take no hit whatsoever it simply isn't viable.

Even if you hit management with say 6k each and there are 100 of them, that still only raises €600,000 out of €5,000,000

BE spokesperson said on Newstalk on Sunday morning average drivers pay is 45k, that is average full time driver, part time school bus drivers are not included in that figure. If the average wage is 50K as you say and average full time driver is 45K mechanics would be similar I would guess then as you say 500 part time drivers and that is the vast majority of staff, there must be big wages in those remaining grades dragging that average up to 50k

devnull

cdebru wrote: »

BE spokesperson said on Newstalk on Sunday morning average drivers pay is 45k, that is average full time driver, part time school bus drivers are not included in that figure. If the average wage is 50K as you say and average full time driver is 45K mechanics would be similar I would guess then as you say 500 part time drivers and that is the vast majority of staff, there must be big wages in those remaining grades dragging that average up to 50k

But as I said, if some drivers are earning on AVERAGE 45k, there has to be some drivers earning more than that as well as a few of them under that, else the maths simply don't add up seeing as average is just that. There will be some higher and lower.

It's obvious that management are overpaid, I think we can both agree on that, but realistically, how much can those part time staff be earning? They'd have to be somewhere quite a way south of 45k, so once you take out those people then the average wage would go even higher than 50k since you are taking people who are dragging it down out.

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

But as I've said before, overtime being built into rosters that people are working on a weekly basis is a sign of bad scheduling on behalf of the party who is doing so, because that is not what overtime is supposed to be for.

Overtime should be to cover events, high levels of sickness, unexpected high demand, disruption to service, that kind of thing, it shouldn't be something that is scheduled as happening every week of the year in any well managed company.

The fact is that this is not really overtime in the truest sense of the word, it's staff who are working regular scheduled hours every week who would rather have some of it classified as over-time rather than regular hours because it pays more.

By your own definition overtime is part of their normal pay, so if it's normal, and these hours as overtime are being counted as normal and regular, then the definition of overtime cannot apply since overtime is defined as "time someone works beyond normal working hours"

It is rostered overtime, it is time they have to work over the normal 40 hour week. I don't know much about BE but I would imagine if a driver has to drive to Kerry or Donegal he is unlikely to get there and back in the normal 8 hour shift, so they roster overtime otherwise the bus would be abandoned somewhere around Ardee.

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

But as I said, if some drivers are earning on AVERAGE 45k, there has to be some drivers earning quite a bit more than that as well as quite a few of them under that, else the maths simply don't add up.

It's obvious that management are overpaid, I think we can both agree on that, but realistically, how much can those part time staff be earning? They'd have to be somewhere quite a way south of 45k, so once you take out those people then the average wage would go even higher than 50k since you are taking people who are dragging it down out.

Actually I would imagine most of the drivers these days are earning pretty much in or around the average, he said very few would be earning the core 33K as they have to work Sundays, Bank holidays, rostered overtime, shifts etc, with the advent of the 48 hour week drivers can no longer work as much overtime as they like.
It is all very restricted now with minimum rest periods etc etc, I would imagine there is not much deviation from the average.

As I said that 45 average just applied to full time drivers, part time drivers are separate. But if the over all average is 50 as you say then a small number of people are dragging it up. interesting

mrsoundie

Is it my imagination, but are there some people on this thread who would prefer that the BE staff who are on strike be locked out and bring in the scabs?

On the frontline a few weeks ago, there was a business man who quite clearly said that if you want to make savings in any business, go to the workers on the front line.

Does anyone think that BE management has done this? I would say no.

devnull

I'm not sure how CIE accounts work as such or if there are any other things such as pension schemes that are included in the overall figures for employee salaries/costs as I know some companies will include them in that section, but I'm not sure how much that would add to the figures or if that is even happening here, I suspect you'll need to see the full accounts for that.

AS for what is happening with GoBus well that wasn't a very bright move in my book for anyone who started it since the employees that are operating that service from everything I've read since that service operated are not employees of Bus Eireann and therefore shouldn't be dragged into this dispute. Yes that company has some link to Bus Eireann but the action taken were not acceptable in my view.

You'd wonder if something similar could happen with Translink or McGeehan coaches should the dispute go on for a few more days, since they are operating services in co-operation with Bus Eireann on routes through the strike also - lets hope not since that will do little to generate public goodwill and is just handing passengers to the true competition who have no link to BE at all.

Peppa Pig wrote: »

It will eliminate fraud for sure and is a joke that in 2013 it is only being rolled out. But is it going to increase BE revenue, though? If BE get a set amount per pass then their sub will not change. There will just be less people on the buses so you may actually see less routes.

Hopefully if fraud is stamped out it means certain people will start paying for their journeys rather than borrowing his mate from down the pubs pass to travel, it'll either be that or no travel.

Victor

hoodwinked wrote: »

if it is a financial issue what i could never understand is why there isn't more in/on bus advertising? they have so much space to sell if they need the cash that badly...

There is a recession on and advertising income is weak.

CAN probably gets a fixed fee from the advertisers. http://www.cie.ie/our_services/can.asp

Stinicker

BenShermin wrote: »

Just watching RTÉ News there. Disgusting scenes in Cork this afternoon when NBRU picketers left Bus Éireann property to block a GoBÉ service on the middle of a busy city centre street. The GoBÉ service had already started it's journey to Dublin and the picketers surrounded the drivers cab and told him that he wouldn't be allowed to proceed until he emptied his bus of passengers. Passengers were later shown left on the side of the footpath and some were in obvious distress at the situation. (I'm not too sure, but I think this incident happened on McCurtain Street??, correct me if I'm wrong)

These thugs should have been arrested by Gardaí for breach of the peace imo. After this incident I don't think GoBÉ can survive anymore, especially if this strike escalates and the Bus Éireann brand becomes more poisonous. Go Bus is a well known and trusted brand, Go Bus should be able to go it alone on this route.

Striking workers should be told to report to work tomorrow morning or they will have their employment terminated with immediate effect. Earning in excess of €800 a week to drive a bus is a sick joke and I'd gladly drive buses for half that and so would plenty of the other half a million people on the dole. The Government should start the privatization of Bus Eireann immediately after this, their fares are far too high to begin with and with their drivers earning nearly a grand a week then there is plenty space for a private company to cut the fat, lower fares and offer a competitive choice. It is meant to be a public transport service not an old boys club like it currently exists.

tayto lover

Stinicker wrote: »

Striking workers should be told to report to work tomorrow morning or they will have their employment terminated with immediate effect. Earning in excess of €800 a week to drive a bus is a sick joke and I'd gladly drive buses for half that and so would plenty of the other half a million people on the dole. The Government should start the privatization of Bus Eireann immediately after this, their fares are far too high to begin with and with their drivers earning nearly a grand a week then there is plenty space for a private company to cut the fat, lower fares and offer a competitive choice. It is meant to be a public transport service not an old boys club like it currently exists.

If BE were to cease to exist tomorrow can you guess what a private company would do with fares?
Don't be so gullible.

miller50841

Stinicker wrote: »

Striking workers should be told to report to work tomorrow morning or they will have their employment terminated with immediate effect. Earning in excess of €800 a week to drive a bus is a sick joke and I'd gladly drive buses for half that and so would plenty of the other half a million people on the dole. The Government should start the privatization of Bus Eireann immediately after this, their fares are far too high to begin with and with their drivers earning nearly a grand a week then there is plenty space for a private company to cut the fat, lower fares and offer a competitive choice. It is meant to be a public transport service not an old boys club like it currently exists.

The only way any driver would be on that money is if they are doing a hell of a lot of overtime.
You shouldn't believe everything the reporters tell you.

As I said before no one wanted them jobs 4 to 5 years ago so I find these types of posts very funny.

Stinicker

tayto lover wrote: »

If BE were to cease to exist tomorrow can you guess what a private company would do with fares?
Don't be so gullible.

It is the people who believe this that are gullible, we have a state owned company here who have been ripping off the country for years, CIE exists less as a public transport company and more as a company run entirely for the benefit of its overpaid workers. They charge a fortune yet still make huge losses, it doesn't take a genius to work out that some is very wrong in that scenario. Irish Rail are the exact same situation, yet you can have a private company like GoBus or Aircoach who charge a fraction of the fare and can turn a profit.

How dare the unions hold the traveling public to ransom when they earn so much as it is, Management should bring in drivers from the UK and Eastern Europe to drive the buses at lower costs if the Irish drivers are unwilling to get real with the wage levels. It is the exact same situation as the Taxi drivers before.

Problem123456

miller50841 wrote: »

The only way any driver would be on that money is if they are doing a hell of a lot of overtime.
You shouldn't believe everything the reporters tell you.

As I said before no one wanted them jobs 4 to 5 years ago so I find these types of posts very funny.

Yeah but is today and today we are in a recession, there are lots of unemployed people who would love the job!!
Everyone is taking cuts so why should BE be any different??

tayto lover

Stinicker wrote: »

It is the people who believe this that are gullible, we have a state owned company here who have been ripping off the country for years, CIE exists less as a public transport company and more as a company run entirely for the benefit of its overpaid workers. They charge a fortune yet still make huge losses, it doesn't take a genius to work out that some is very wrong in that scenario. Irish Rail are the exact same situation, yet you can have a private company like GoBus or Aircoach who charge a fraction of the fare and can turn a profit.

How dare the unions hold the traveling public to ransom when they earn so much as it is, Management should bring in drivers from the UK and Eastern Europe to drive the buses at lower costs if the Irish drivers are unwilling to get real with the wage levels. It is the exact same situation as the Taxi drivers before.

My point still stands.
The private companies would make even more profits if BE didn't exist.
I don't like to see the public transport system being disrupted but if the workers don't stand up for themselves then the Govt will flex their muscles with other sectors.

Victor

On topic please. Read the first post.

dublinstevie wrote: »

Fanny

No insults please. Banned for repeated behaviour

the_syco wrote: »

They're nothing short of bullies. I won't condone violence, but I hope they stop a bus full of those that will :pac:

Constructive posts only please

Moderator

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the_syco wrote: »

Link please to such accounts, please?

http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=310

cdebru wrote: »

It is rostered overtime, it is time they have to work over the normal 40 hour week.

But is the 'normal working week' - and the point where overtime starts - 40 hours or 36 hours?

I don't know much about BE but I would imagine if a driver has to drive to Kerry or Donegal he is unlikely to get there and back in the normal 8 hour shift, so they roster overtime otherwise the bus would be abandoned somewhere around Ardee.

Drivers tend to stay in their own region. No driver would do anything like Dublin-Kerry - there would be a driver change at Limerick at least. The longest journeys without a driver change are probably Cork-Dublin.

cdebru wrote: »

BE spokesperson said on Newstalk on Sunday morning average drivers pay is 45k, that is average full time driver, part time school bus drivers are not included in that figure. If the average wage is 50K as you say and average full time driver is 45K mechanics would be similar I would guess then as you say 500 part time drivers and that is the vast majority of staff, there must be big wages in those remaining grades dragging that average up to 50k

The €45,000 increases to the €51,000 when you include PRSI and pensions - they are the 'same' number.

mrsoundie wrote: »

Is it my imagination, but are there some people on this thread who would prefer that the BE staff who are on strike be locked out and bring in the scabs?

There are people at both extremes - some want to drag all sorts of extraneous issues in and use the strikers as cannon fodder.

On the frontline a few weeks ago, there was a business man who quite clearly said that if you want to make savings in any business, go to the workers on the front line.

Reducing staff incomes by €1,000 will save a business a lot more than reducing management incomes by €5,000.

Does anyone think that BE management has done this? I would say no.

Surely they have?

Peppa Pig wrote: »

It will eliminate fraud for sure and is a joke that in 2013 it is only being rolled out. But is it going to increase BE revenue, though? If BE get a set amount per pass then their sub will not change. There will just be less people on the buses so you may actually see less routes.

Again, off-topic, but those that are currently acting fraudulently would have to pay for their travel, so it would improve the bottom line.

devnull

That is very helpful Victor - thanks!

Okay so those reports show that under staffing costs that also includes pension and social welfare costs so that means the total for wages is a little bit lower than it would first seem as I didn't realise that was being counted in the overall figures.

So now it's approx €43,000 for average salary excluding pension and Social Welfare and excluding directors remuneration, which is a little more realistic - apologies for trotting out the 50k figure previously, but all other documents I'd looked at showed the figure inclusive of all staff related costs under the item "Salaries/Wages"

It seems that 502 of the 2,605 staff are part time school bus driver figures, so it seems that at least those figures that are mentioned on here are correct. It really would be nice if someone new what the wage for such people is, since if we could strip them out of it, we'd be able to get a better figure for the average salary for a full time member of staff in the company.

I'd say that with it being €43,000 including part time school drivers, it would be just over €50,000 rather than almost €60,000 we first thought once you take them out at a guess, but it's impossible to be sure unless we roughly know how much they are paid since they have to drag the average down quite a few grand.

KCAccidental

BenShermin wrote: »

Just watching RTÉ News there. Disgusting scenes in Cork this afternoon when NBRU picketers left Bus Éireann property to block a GoBÉ service on the middle of a busy city centre street. The GoBÉ service had already started it's journey to Dublin and the picketers surrounded the drivers cab and told him that he wouldn't be allowed to proceed until he emptied his bus of passengers. Passengers were later shown left on the side of the footpath and some were in obvious distress at the situation. (I'm not too sure, but I think this incident happened on McCurtain Street??, correct me if I'm wrong)

These thugs should have been arrested by Gardaí for breach of the peace imo. After this incident I don't think GoBÉ can survive anymore, especially if this strike escalates and the Bus Éireann brand becomes more poisonous. Go Bus is a well known and trusted brand, Go Bus should be able to go it alone on this route.

from what I have seen, which is from pictures only. GoBE were using Bus Eireann stops on Merchant's Quay to collect passengers. I think the fact that a BE marked stop is being used is where the problem stems from rather than roaming gangs of Bus Drivers.

Happyman42

tayto lover wrote: »

My point still stands.
The private companies would make even more profits if BE didn't exist.
I don't like to see the public transport system being disrupted but if the workers don't stand up for themselves then the Govt will flex their muscles with other sectors.

The government could control the fares, they control the price of cigarettes and they are private companies, why not fares?
Our local private service has never stuck the arm in despite having a monopoly. Private companies don't tend to kill laying hens, if they did they wouldn't last.

tayto lover

Happyman42 wrote: »

The government could control the fares, they control the price of cigarettes and they are private companies, why not fares?
Our local private service has never stuck the arm in despite having a monopoly. Private companies don't tend to kill laying hens, if they did they wouldn't last.

My local company raised their return Dundalk/ Dublin fares from 9 euro to 12 euro and now 14 euro when BE cut their services. Of course they put it down to fuel price rises.

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Either do I, if Irish Rail staff want to keep there current wages and not be subject to such cuts as BE staff are then they will stay working as IE position was worse last year and something like this won't help it and staff know this. But then if all CIE operators want job cuts then why not walk off. It will be one way of getting the numbers employed down.

There will be jobs cuts at BE over this and employees and the NBRU need to wake up and unerstand it.

They already accepted worse cuts when it was put to them last year. No expenses, no overtime payments, Sunday part of the working week just to name a few.

miller50841

If they were to accept more cut's whats to stop management enforcing more in a few months or a year down the road.

BenShermin

KCAccidental wrote: »

from what I have seen, which is from pictures only. GoBE were using Bus Eireann stops on Merchant's Quay to collect passengers. I think the fact that a BE marked stop is being used is where the problem stems from rather than roaming gangs of Bus Drivers.

Ive seen the online pictures on Merchant's Quay. However, on the RTÉ news the bus was illigally blocked nowhere near a BÉ stop by a gang of drivers, it definitely looked like the Bridge Street/McCurtain street area.

Regardless, the carry on in Cork today was irresponsible and downright thuggish. Why did they have to act like that, after all the Dublin picket is allowing Ulsterbus to operate.

Peppa Pig

Does anyone know why the services in Donegal appear to be running? Is it a separate union or something?

foggy_lad

miller50841 wrote: »

If they were to accept more cut's whats to stop management enforcing more in a few months or a year down the road.

A Labour Court recommendation like the one that the union ignored/rejected to allow this strike to go ahead. Although the company might ignore any recommendation not in their favour next time around.

foggy_lad

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Does anyone know why the services in Donegal appear to be running? Is it a separate union or something?

Only some services are running, those which are operated exclusively by McGeehans Coaches between Dublin-Donegal and Dungloe Killybegs, Glencolumbkille and west Donegal as well as their services from Letterkenny to west Donegal.

LeftBlank

Happyman42 wrote: »

The government could control the fares, they control the price of cigarettes and they are private companies, why not fares?
Our local private service has never stuck the arm in despite having a monopoly. Private companies don't tend to kill laying hens, if they did they wouldn't last.

The government don't control the cost of cigarettes. They do put a lot of tax/excise on them but they don't control the price.

P_1

BenShermin wrote: »

Ive seen the online pictures on Merchant's Quay. However, on the RTÉ news the bus was illigally blocked nowhere near a BÉ stop by a gang of drivers, it definitely looked like the Bridge Street/McCurtain street area.

Regardless, the carry on in Cork today was irresponsible and downright thuggish. Why did they have to act like that, after all the Dublin picket is allowing Ulsterbus to operate.

Things like that would turn the public against the strikers very quickly. A lot of people are not used to industrial action impacting on their day to day lives and I'd imagine a prolonged period of industrial action could turn out rather badly for the NBRU

Happyman42

tayto lover wrote: »

My local company raised their return Dundalk/ Dublin fares from 9 euro to 12 euro and now 14 euro when BE cut their services. Of course they put it down to fuel price rises.

BE never winced when they wanted to raise fares. Fuel prices have risen and 14 euros Dundalk/Dublin return doesn't seem extortinate to me.