Students breaking a lease

JohnnyBoii

Hi,

We are six students living in south dublin. We rented a 3 bedroom apartment and we are all sharing rooms. The rent is quite pricey and in fact more expensive then all the other apartments in the same street who are owned by the same person. We moved in September, signed an eleven month lease because it was late august and we had no where else close to college to rent a place. However, we can't afford to pay for the remainder two months, June and July.

I was wondering what could we do? We emailed our agent, giving him 30 day notice and explained the situation but he said we cannot break the lease because there is no break clause and we are obliged to pay the rest of the rent. We would be willing to let him keep the one month deposit we paid if we could break the lease and leave. We simply cannot pay the extra month.

What would happen if we just decided not to pay the remaining months rent? We also had to get guarantors to sign the lease. Would they be contacted immediately? The monthly rent comes to about 2900 so if we don't pay the last two months (1 month if he keeps the deposit), would he be able to take us to Smalls Claim court or the Civil court?


Thanks,
Johnny.

Twoandahalfmen

JohnnyBoii wrote: »

Hi,

We are six students living in south dublin. We rented a 3 bedroom apartment and we are all sharing rooms. The rent is quite pricey and in fact more expensive then all the other apartments in the same street who are owned by the same person. We moved in September, signed an eleven month lease because it was late august and we had no where else close to college to rent a place. However, we can't afford to pay for the remainder two months, June and July.

I was wondering what could we do? We emailed our agent, giving him 30 day notice and explained the situation but he said we cannot break the lease because there is no break clause and we are obliged to pay the rest of the rent. We would be willing to let him keep the one month deposit we paid if we could break the lease and leave. We simply cannot pay the extra month.

What would happen if we just decided not to pay the remaining months rent? We also had to get guarantors to sign the lease. Would they be contacted immediately? The monthly rent comes to about 2900 so if we don't pay the last two months (1 month if he keeps the deposit), would he be able to take us to Smalls Claim court or the Civil court?


Thanks,
Johnny.

Small claims court only deal with issues where compensation is a Max €2000

partyatmygaff

He could technically take you to court but the cost of court and fact he probably might not be able to actually get any money out of you might mean he could leave it.

bhamsteve

Raise the money and pay the rent, it is 2 months and you will get one month back unless you have trashed the place. You will be putting the guarantors in a tricky position if you don't pay it and I'm sure they won't be backing you up the next year if you leave them with debts. Welcome to the adult world with real responsibilities.

JohnnyBoii

Twoandahalfmen wrote: »

Small claims court only deal with issues where compensation is a Max €2000

Ok thank you. Does civil court cost any fees?Do you represent yourself?How long does the whole process take do you know

JohnnyBoii

partyatmygaff wrote: »

He could technically take you to court but the cost of court and fact he probably might not be able to actually get any money out of you might mean he could leave it.

Would he be able to try get the money out of our guarantors then?Would they be involved in the court case IF it came to it

Corkbah

he can get judgements against you in the Civil Court which would result in lots of future problems....if you are looking for loans or trying to travel to USA etc in the future

legally you have a contract - if you break a contract you are basically asking him or daring him to sue you and also seek damages !! (so you could all end out paying a LOT more than the two months rent)

Twoandahalfmen

JohnnyBoii wrote: »

Ok thank you. Does civil court cost any fees?Do you represent yourself?How long does the whole process take do you know

Small claims court costs €15.
You represent yourself
Here us a link http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

Look at the rules there a bit about rent.

But TBH you signed the lease and agreed to pay the rent. As high as it is you signed a lease- you could if live elsewhere if you couldnt afford it.

Its tennants like you and your mates who decide not too pay rent when your leaving that give all tenants the same reputation.

You will have a bad refernece when you leave and dont expect the guarantors to sign next year.

So suck it up and pay it

the world wonders

JohnnyBoii wrote: »

would he be able to take us to Smalls Claim court or the Civil court?

No, he cannot, because under the Residential Tenancies Act all landlord-tenant disputes are handled by the Private Residential Tenancies Board.

If he was unable to find a new tenant for the two months remaining in the lease he could potentially claim against you for his losses via the PRTB but in the current rental market this is unlikely (and even when the rental market was slow I've never heard of this happening). Realistically your losses are limited to your deposit.

Your best bet is to find another tenant to assign your lease to -- if you can do this you are legally entitled to your full deposit back and you have no worries about the remaining two months in the lease.

Grandpa Hassan

Twoandahalfmen wrote: »

Its tennants like you and your mates who decide not too pay rent when your leaving that give all tenants the same reputation.

^^This.

You have to live somewhere. Is the difference between what you are paying now and what you will pay somewhere for the next two months worth risking your guarantors being hit, and not getting a reference?

murphaph

Is it just a coincidence that the college year is coming to an end soon that you guys suddenly (all 6 of you together at the same time?) can't pay the rent for the remaining months? Your guarantors should cough up the money you owe this guy if you can't. The LL will certainly be sending letters to them looking for what they guaranteed.

endacl

Why did you only reply to the advice you liked the sound of OP?

Why not just ask 'who has an easy way to get out of a tenancy agreement so that I can get off the hook with no hassle, and save the few quid that I owe?'.

Your LL signed an agreement in good faith. Pay what you owe. A three-bed between six people. How much could it be?

I understand why people are reluctant to rent to students, and I say that as a tenant. I've always played fair with LL's, and to date haven't had a single issue, big or small, that wasn't resolved with a quick chat. Including getting out of a lease early. And by early, I mean less than halfway through the lease. Deposit returned, minus a small fee to cover the cost of a clean, which the place didn't need, but hey, I was happy to see it had been professionally cleaned before I moved in. OP, people are generally decent, if they're dealt with decently.

D3PO

if you think anybody on here buys your cock and bull story your mistaken. Convenient how you suddenly cant pay the rent when the college year ends...

you signed a lease grown up and realize you signed a legal document.

PaurGasm

You probably should have thought of the consequences of signing an 11month lease before you signed it...

I doubt theres much you can do tbh

Twoandahalfmen

murphaph wrote: »

Is it just a coincidence that the college year is coming to an end soon that you guys suddenly (all 6 of you together at the same time?) can't pay the rent for the remaining months? Your guarantors should cough up the money you owe this guy if you can't. The LL will certainly be sending letters to them looking for what they guaranteed.

Agreed, its a sham. Wonder how much they have for an end of term session.

StillWaters

Your LL will almost certainly go after your Guarantors through the PRTB, and the LL will win. This is a cut and dried case.

JohnnyBoii

endacl wrote: »

Why did you only reply to the advice you liked the sound of OP?

Why not just ask 'who has an easy way to get out of a tenancy agreement so that I can get off the hook with no hassle, and save the few quid that I owe?'.

Your LL signed an agreement in good faith. Pay what you owe. A three-bed between six people. How much could it be?

I understand why people are reluctant to rent to students, and I say that as a tenant. I've always played fair with LL's, and to date haven't had a single issue, big or small, that wasn't resolved with a quick chat. Including getting out of a lease early. And by early, I mean less than halfway through the lease. Deposit returned, minus a small fee to cover the cost of a clean, which the place didn't need, but hey, I was happy to see it had been professionally cleaned before I moved in. OP, people are generally decent, if they're dealt with decently.

How can you talk like that when you don't know our circumstances? I didn't ask people to give lessons on morals and whatnot I simply asked what the consequences may be. Hence the reason I only replied to "advice I liked". If you don't have something helpful to say why bother posting at all?

Corkbah

JohnnyBoii wrote: »

How can you talk like that when you don't know our circumstances? I didn't ask people to give lessons on morals and whatnot I simply asked what the consequences may be. Hence the reason I only replied to "advice I liked". If you don't have something helpful to say why bother posting at all?

you only reply to advice that you like simply means you are choosing to ignore possible correct answers.

heres the way things could play out as I see it:

its unlikely the landlord will come after you if you choose to leave the place....BUT in the event that he does take legal action you do not have a defence to the action and could face having a civil court conviction and judgement against you.

endacl

JohnnyBoii wrote: »

How can you talk like that when you don't know our circumstances? I didn't ask people to give lessons on morals and whatnot I simply asked what the consequences may be. Hence the reason I only replied to "advice I liked". If you don't have something helpful to say why bother posting at all?

You owe the money, and signed a document agreeing to pay. The consequences would be that you or your guarantors could be pursued for the money owed.

The easiest way out would be to sublet, and rent the place yourselves to somebody else if the LL is agreeable to this. They could then sign a new lease with the LL once yours has expired. You'll still be liable to make up any shortfall in the rent though, and your tenants will be living there on your deposit.

Simplest solution would be to just pay. A six way split shouldn't be all that much. Your problem here might be to get the others to honour it. If, as others have suggested, you only intended staying until the end of term, and I'm not saying this is the case, why didn't you say this to the LL at the time?

I think people (myself included) may have been a little hard on you all right, but you opening post did have the ring of 'students-colliding-with-the-real-world'. Apologies for that. Lesson learned?

Scortho

StillWaters wrote: »

Your LL will almost certainly go after your Guarantors through the PRTB, and the LL will win. This is a cut and dried case.

I thought that he could only go after former tenants for loss of income only after making reasonable effort to get new tenants in.
I've never heard of a guarantor before when it comes to rentals? Is this enforceable? I know it is with mortgages but with residential tenacies?
And if so, at a max he can only go after the guarantors for the outstanding 2 months rent, the same rent they'd have to pay anyway.

Corkbah

endacl wrote: »

If, as others have suggested, you only intended staying until the end of term, and I'm not saying this is the case, why didn't you say this to the LL at the time?

from reading between the lines I would guess they all wanted a place near the college and were willing to tell the landlord they would pay the full 11month contract so they could secure the place....and now they are trying to find out what the possible ramifications of "doing a bunk" are ?

they have been ignoring advice saying pay up - you agreed to a contract etc etc.... honour the contract ...or advice telling them the landlord can take them to court (which is most likely given they previously contacted the landlord asking if they can get out of their contract)

Corkbah

Scortho wrote: »

I thought that he could only go after former tenants for loss of income only after making reasonable effort to get new tenants in.
I've never heard of a guarantor before when it comes to rentals? Is this enforceable? I know it is with mortgages but with residential tenacies?
And if so, at a max he can only go after the guarantors for the outstanding 2 months rent, the same rent they'd have to pay anyway.

if they had guarantors for their contract then in default of the contract the guarantors are liable to pay, which is the whole point of guarantors in a contract.

if they did not have guarantors, the named people on the contract can be persued in the courts....and given the information available to us, the landlord would be successful and would also be entitled to compensation.

so the amount owed by the guarantors or students would be:
- outstanding rent
- legal fees
- compensation
which would be a hell of a lot more than paying up the two months rent, legal fees against 6 students would be substantial as each case could be dealt with separately before the courts.

paddydriver

LL getting €2900 P/M for a 3 bed appt... and own's a few other places on the street too. Sounds like an experienced LL that possibly has the appt's for some time and therefore possibly making a healthy profit on the college rentals.

Possible here that he knows the process and will go after the money, but may not pursue it to full extent. Will probably try some scare tactics etc on you but that said at best you lose your deposit, but worst he gets you for full lot + costs.

All the rights are on the tenants side these days and this kind of thing is happening every day of the week.

Your call OP but think you may hear more on this.

Scortho

Corkbah wrote: »

if they had guarantors for their contract then in default of the contract the guarantors are liable to pay, which is the whole point of guarantors in a contract.

if they did not have guarantors, the named people on the contract can be persued in the courts....and given the information available to us, the landlord would be successful and would also be entitled to compensation.

so the amount owed by the guarantors or students would be:
- outstanding rent
- legal fees
- compensation
which would be a hell of a lot more than paying up the two months rent, legal fees against 6 students would be substantial as each case could be dealt with separately before the courts.

The only way he can go after it is through opening a case with he prtb is it not?

Grandpa Hassan

JohnnyBoii wrote: »

How can you talk like that when you don't know our circumstances? I didn't ask people to give lessons on morals and whatnot I simply asked what the consequences may be. Hence the reason I only replied to "advice I liked". If you don't have something helpful to say why bother posting at all?

Are you surprised at the response when the information you've provided just points toward you trying to pull a fast one on your landlord?

StillWaters

Scortho wrote: »

I thought that he could only go after former tenants for loss of income only after making reasonable effort to get new tenants in.
I've never heard of a guarantor before when it comes to rentals? Is this enforceable? I know it is with mortgages but with residential tenacies?
And if so, at a max he can only go after the guarantors for the outstanding 2 months rent, the same rent they'd have to pay anyway.

Yes, but how is he meant to get someone to rent it for 2 months, the remainder of the lease? It is reasonable for him to argue it would be difficult to do this, and as it's student accommodation or he rents to students I imagine his leases normally start in September. I have heard of guarantors in cases of students renting, it is security for the LL in cases like this.
Like I said, cut and dried.OP has no option but to pay up unless she wants her guarantors dragged into it.

JustAThought

JohnnyBoii wrote: »

We emailed our agent, giving him 30 day notice and explained the situation but he said we cannot break the lease because there is no break clause and we are obliged to pay the rest of the rent. We would be willing to let him keep the one month deposit we paid if we could break the lease and leave. We simply cannot pay the extra month.

What would happen if we just decided not to pay the remaining months rent? We also had to get guarantors to sign the lease. Would they be contacted immediately? The monthly rent comes to about 2900 so if we don't pay the last two months (1 month if he keeps the deposit), would he be able to take us to Smalls Claim court or the Civil court?


Thanks,
Johnny.

Dear Johnny ,

You need to honour your obligation and the legal contract in place. You have involved another persons finances in this -your guarantor -who no doubt trusted you and was prepared to believe in your honesty to put their name, money & time on the legal document as a guarantor . To loose this among of money to pay someone else's rent because they want to go home/on holidays/don't want to anymore is a horrific thing to do to them.

Pay your rent, honour your legal contract.
Otherwise you can be GUARANTEED that the landlord will IMMEDIATELY go after both you AND your guarantor.

To look at it selfishly -it will cause a financial disaster for your guarantor . You will also loose your deposit . You will also have no reference for next year.

Next year you will also have no guarantor & never will again.

If you have gone through the PTRB you will have either a cut & dry judgement against your name there too.

if you have outstanding bills, or damage your landlord will most likely ALSO chase both you AND your guarantor for those costs also which will mean you could spend your summer in the small claims court AND have a legal judgement made against you -not to mention your guarantor who may well not be able to pay.

Most likely all your parents will become involved too.

The fate your guarantor dosn't really seem to be a big issue for you; so let me phrase it this way. Anyone with a judgement made against them for this type of thing WILL have it registered in the legal system, where it will follow you WHEN reference or standard credit checks are done for car loans, future UPC connections, future jobs checks (essential with banks , insurance etc ),car loans, store Cards, credit card applications etc.

You will also have to declare it for employees who may request it & will not employ you if you are a debt cheat or have court judgements made against you for debt & unpaid bills ( increasing
common) with employees especially multinationals who employ reference checker companies to do this for them . And of course Australia And America visa require you to declare judgements, debt orders or prosecutions made against you , or ones that are underway , and can and will refuse your visa application based on this.

Check your contract -typically breech of termS involves loosing your deposit. If you break it you will also loose this. I hope your guarantor didn't give this to you too?


Pay your way, pay your rent, don't shaft yourself, your future & most of all your guarantor . Like it or not, you have signed a legally binding document ; these people don't give a hoot about you - they WILL prosecute and it will have serious long term consequences for you .

Zamboni

Johnny, you're a man now. Don't play the "poor student" card.
The Landlord and your guarantor treated you with respect and entered into agreements with you as a man.
Be a man and deliver your side of the agreement.

On another note - €2,900 for a 3 bed apt in SCD???
That is either sheer lunacy or the place must be like something off MTV Cribs.

djimi

Ignoring the lynch mob for a second, your legal way out of this situation is to look to reassign the remainder of the lease. This means that you go and find someone to take over the remainder of your lease (someone who is acceptable to the landlord), you pay all costs involved and are responsible for any shortfall in rent that the landlord may incur.

Granted it might not be all that easy to reassign the remaining two months of a lease, but given that it is coming into the summer months you may well find someone who is looking for a short term letting who would be willing to agree to what would effectively be a two month lease. The cost of the rental may be an issue for you, but it cant hurt to give it a try.

maisiedaisy

Is the landlord registered with the PRTB? Give them a ring to find out, as far as I know s/he needs to be registered in order to pursue a disagreement.

Kosseegan

StillWaters wrote: »

Your LL will almost certainly go after your Guarantors through the PRTB, and the LL will win. This is a cut and dried case.

Guarantors are not pursued through the PRTB. The guarantee is outside the PRTB dispute resolution procedure. That is the reason landlords now insist on a guarantee. They can make a demand for the rent and if it is not paid they can sue on the guarantee in the courts. Unless the tenants raise a dispute with the PRTB saying they do not owe the rent the guarantors will be on hook.