Do you have a history?

Wade in the Sea

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'd prefer a more balanced view of the world. At the moment history tends to be very hiberno-centric and focused on the big bad English invading poor defenseless Ireland. It's very black and white and I'd rather they thought more about the root causes of colonialism and it's effects on the wider world scale. Analyze why things happened instead of just saying they did.

Couldn't agree more! Though I think, in fairness, history, and particularly Irish History is being thought in a much less biased way today. That's the beauty of the subject - you can form your own opinion based on the facts - there are few other subject that open a students mind like History to the possibilties of what was, and look at it retrospectively with a modern eye. Yes that is reviisionism but so long as you don't distort the facts you alway have a case. Today, you ask a child "who was the most evil man in history" and they'll tell you Hitler. Evil?.. yeah but a minow compared to Stalin or Mao who killed mulitiples of what the Austrian Corporal managed. That's revisionism.

And then I ask myself, how would a socialist party reveering Moa and Stalin deal with that. Much as Stalin and Moa did. Block Historical teaching!!!!!!!

Cody Pomeray

Skid X wrote: »

There was an After Hours thread recently where someone (too young to remember) said that the Troubles in Northern Ireland, weren't that bad, and there weren't any bombs as bad as the one in Boston recently.

If ever there was evidence that History should be compulsory, that was it.

Unfortunately making it compulsory doesn't really guarantee any effect.


Most of the country had compulsory Irish.

I'd be willing to bet 90% of the population wouldn't be able to order a pint of beer and tell the bargirl to keep the change, trí Ghaeilge.

Wade in the Sea

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You are not learning from the history of this thread. History is not a compulsory subject either on the Junior or Senior cycle. But like geography which is also not compulsory I expect that most schools will teach it. So whatever rat you are smelling is somewhat contrived I think.

As with History - check your facts - before casting an opinon

Skid X

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Unfortunately making it compulsory doesn't really guarantee any effect.


Most of the country had compulsory Irish.

I'd be willing to bet 90% of the population wouldn't be able to order a pint of beer and tell the bargirl to keep the change, trí Ghaeilge.

There are no guarantees, but it's a good start. I wouldn't be a fan of Irish, but most people retain some basic level of knowledge of the subject despite how much they protest.

Legs.Eleven

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

Couldn't agree more! Though I think, in fairness, history, and particularly Irish History is being thought in a much less biased way today. That's the beauty of the subject - you can form your own opinion based on the facts - there are few other subject that open a students mind like History to the possibilties of what was, and look at it retrospectively with a modern eye. Yes that is reviisionism but so long as you don't distort the facts you alway have a case. Today, you ask a child "who was the most evil man in history" and they'll tell you Hitler. Evil?.. yeah but a minow compared to Stalin or Mao who killed mulitiples of what the Austrian Corporal managed. That's revisionism.

And then I ask myself, how would a socialist party reveering Moa and Stalin deal with that. Much as Stalin and Moa did. Block Historical teaching!!!!!!!

Moa!!! Haha!


I'm drunk btw.

Wade in the Sea

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I can't imagine why, my understanding is the course was specifically designed to construct a natural lead-in to third level programmes.

It has a large research component and a big emphasis on critical awareness and making balanced judgement calls.

I presumed everyone was very happy with the syllabus. Not sure how someone would, or should, go about improving it.

Sounds like learned teaching as opposed to intuitive guidance. The difference between a nice pension and a vocation to me!

TheUsual

Labour Party (Democratic Left / O.I.R.A. / Worker's Party) want to stop Irish History being taught.

I agree, it's too difficult to keep up with the changing loyalties of these these Political chameleons.
32 counties ?
26 counties ?
United workers Party.
United British & Irish Labour Party.
United Kingdom and Knighthoods for all the boys !!! Huzzahhh !!!!

Cody Pomeray

Skid X wrote: »

There are no guarantees, but it's a good start. I wouldn't be a fan of Irish, but most people retain some basic level of knowledge of the subject despite how much they protest.

If you stopped 100 people on Grafton Street, how many do you think would be able to say important, basic phrases like "I'm thirsty", "my girlfriend is in labour" and "Can I pay by credit card"?

I'd say you'd be lucky if you got 5.

dxhound2005

Skid X wrote: »

There was an After Hours thread recently where someone (too young to remember) said that the Troubles in Northern Ireland, weren't that bad, and there weren't any bombs as bad as the one in Boston recently.

If ever there was evidence that History should be compulsory, that was it.

I do not regard that as sufficient evidence. People say mad things on the internet all the time. And some of them may even have university degrees.

kilkenny12

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I do not regard that as sufficient evidence. People say mad things on the internet all the time. And some of them may even have university degrees.

Honestly some people haven't a clue about the extent of damage caused by the troubles. And that's very recent history.

dxhound2005

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

As with History - check your facts - before casting an opinon

Are you still saying that History and Irish are currently compulsory subjects on the Junior Certificate?

SparkySpitfire

Is brea liom stair.

Lando Griffin

An awful boring thread title.
Could have got more punters with something like
"Threesome of lessons face axe more sex class please".

Insect Overlord

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

First off - I am not anti Irish/Gaelic. Irish has a use, but better as a 3rd level Arts subject.

Irish is not just a subject. It's a language, a mode of communication and expression and record, one with its own long and ornate history that mirrors and intertwines with the subject (History) you're trying so desperately to defend.

shruikan2553

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Irish is not just a subject. It's a language, a mode of communication and expression and record, one with its own long and ornate history that mirrors and intertwines with the subject (History) you're trying so desperately to defend.

Maybe they should start teaching it more like a language then. Really I see no need for any subjects to be compulsory after the junior cert but history should be done until that point.

Jawgap

Corkfeen wrote: »

I actually only got as far as Junior Cert history, I am currently finishing my history undergrad though.:pac: I have found that many people in my course who had studied Leaving Cert history, struggled with adapting the way in which they analysed it. It tends to be one of the major complaints of history lecturers.

I do some tutoring on an undergrad history course and I've found that it varies. Irish history (and particularly Irish social history) is well grounded but students generally lack the ability to contextualise Irish events into the international 'arena' because generally European, American and especially Asian history are poorly taught / studied.

I've also found that a lot of students lack critical thinking skills - in 1st year anyway. Given they quickly adapt and develop them, it's down to a lack of teaching rather than an absence of ability.

Finally, a lot of students demonstrate decent research abilities except they are - in a lot of instances - too lazy to go beyond Wikipedia! Once they get a good kick in the hole a prod they apply their abilities more constructively.

Zebra3

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

A rather clever Spanish philospher in the 20th Century by the name of Santayana once said ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

The Labour Party are proposing that History be made no longer compulsory for post primary students while the Gaelic Language spoken by a minority in this country remains at the core of Education?

I smell a rat! Socialists are notorious for revisionism, but you wouldn't know unless you've studied history....

So what's more important - speaking a language that belongs in History or knowing that it once existed?

They probably don't want the youth of today finding out about the AIB bailout they supported while in government with FG in the 1980s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_Irish_Banks#Insurance_Corporation_of_Ireland

Or them knowing about James Connolly and his ideals and how much the current Labour leadership are happy to sell out those ideals for power and its trappings.

Hoop66

Thing about history is, it's just one bloody thing after another.

Corkfeen

Jawgap wrote: »

Finally, a lot of students demonstrate decent research abilities except they are - in a lot of instances - too lazy to go beyond Wikipedia! Once they get a good kick in the hole a prod they apply their abilities more constructively.

I remember a person got flagged for plagiarism in first year. They had basically half of a wikipedia article. The mind boggles at such idiocy. :pac: