Match Thread: Ulster Rugby v Llanelli Scarlets, Rabo SF, Friday 10th May 2013 19:45

gameoverdude

.ak wrote: »

C'mon, more Leinster fans are defending him here. But fine, see it your way... Keep your Trimbles!

Also a Leinster fan and I believe he has been hard done by with regards to the Ireland squad. Great season and I hope to see him a bit more in an Green jersey if he keeps up this form.

DDC1990

After looking at the laws my opinion was wrong.

I didn't realise that they don't put certain offences into Red and Yellow card categories.

Its totally down to the Referee to decide if an act of foul play is serious enough to warrant Red Card or just a Yellow card.

As the punches weren't serious, the yellow card is the right call.

sydthebeat

DDC1990 wrote: »

After looking at the laws my opinion was wrong.

I didn't realise that they don't put certain offences into Red and Yellow card categories.

Its totally down to the Referee to decide if an act of foul play is serious enough to warrant Red Card or just a Yellow card.

As the punches weren't serious, the yellow card is the right call.

the citing commissioner might have a different viewpoint.

Sinbad_NI

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think the game died in the last 30 minutes but I think that was because of more ten minutes in breaks between two inuries at 47 and 49 minutes

Bit of both probably... Game won and long break for injuries is sure to kill the momentum.

irishbucsfan

bilston wrote: »

You think Trimble should be banned? Ive never taken you for a WUM before IBF.

He struck someone in the face, for me that's a ban every time.

Edit: I love Trimble btw, nothing to do with him or Ulster.

rrpc

.ak wrote: »

I still think Rolland had a decent game. It's easy for us to say 'OH he should've seen that' when we have the benefit of 1,000 camera angles and super-slo-mo footage. It's not like he admitted to seeing certain things and then made the wrong call, ala Owens in Thomond Park. Good warm up game for the big one next week I think. Rolland still has the best feel for the game out of the top tier refs imo.

Rolland wasn't at fault there, it was the AR as Rolland was a good bit behind the action whereas the AR was right beside it.

Anyway George Hook was the one having a go at Rolland and since it's George Hook, it's obviously wrong.

trouttrout

Ya Trimble struck him in the face and should have gotten red. Williams did much worse in his retaliation though and should be looking at a longer ban

Worth noting that Williams initially started the niggle at a ruck a few minutes before hand doing his usual hardman act.

bilston

.ak wrote: »

C'mon, more Leinster fans are defending him here. But fine, see it your way... Keep your Trimbles!

I'm only mucking. Just you guys worry about the Weeg first and then we can start the banter ahead of the final!

Artful_Badger

I thought Trimble just shoved him, you see arms and hands being shoved into faces all the time at rucks and if you gave a red for it you'd be left with a 7's game. Williams on the other hand threw 3/4 punches to a players face on the ground and connected.

awec

I thought Trimble just shoved him too, if I remember right Trimble had a constant hold of his shirt. If that was a punch then it was a fairly crap attempt.

But I'd need to see the replay again I think.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

I thought Trimble just shoved him too, if I remember right Trimble had a constant hold of his shirt. If that was a punch then it was a fairly crap attempt.

But I'd need to see the replay again I think.

It's on the previous page. He picked him up and drove him across the other side of the ruck and then struck out at his face twice.

trouttrout

By looking at it I think Trimble tries to cover off a punch by grabbing his shirt first. I think he knew what he was doing tbh. Pretty silly really because he could have easily been sent off

Best policy with guys like Williams is to just ignore them

sweetthing

jesus lads, some people are going a bit overboard with the trimble incident. Handbags is all it was. I thought Rolland made a fair call. Over-reaction by the scarlets lad, but i can understand why. If you're on your back and getting struck by someone, lashing out is an instinctive reaction. 10 minutes in the bin for the lads to cool down was proper order. I'm sure they shook hands after and will have a laugh about it someday.

Talk about bans is absolutely ridiculous. Would hate to see rugby go in that direction. pre-meditated strikes, a la manu luilaigi are a completely different affair and need to be sanctioned. BUt the odd dig is inevetible in matches of high-intensity.

irishbucsfan

I don't mind digs at all and I don't mind them getting away with them. But that is how I think the law is supposed to be interpretend and there is no doubt that both these guys hit the other in the face. I'm not going to be upset if Trimble gets away with it because he's in great form and deserves to be playing in the final based on that.

trouttrout

sweetthing wrote: »

jesus lads, some people are going a bit overboard with the trimble incident. Handbags is all it was. I thought Rolland made a fair call. Over-reaction by the scarlets lad, but i can understand why. If you're on your back and getting struck by someone, lashing out is an instinctive reaction. 10 minutes in the bin for the lads to cool down was proper order. I'm sure they shook hands after and will have a laugh about it someday.

Talk about bans is absolutely ridiculous. Would hate to see rugby go in that direction. pre-meditated strikes, a la manu luilaigi are a completely different affair and need to be sanctioned. BUt the odd dig is inevetible in matches of high-intensity.

Handbags are handbags, but you can't just punch someone 3 or 4 times into the face as Williams did without repercussions, even if he didn't throw the first punch

They both acted stupidly but I have far more sympathy for Trimble given the fact that he threw a punch that wasn't as malicious as the ones Williams followed up with and the fact that Williams has a track record of thuggery and started the niggle between the two at a previous ruck

awec

On reviewing it, yea it's definitely a punch by Trimble.

trouttrout

Williams was shipped off at 50min. Wonder was he injured or was Easterby worried about him losing his cool

ulster_Beef

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't mind digs at all and I don't mind them getting away with them. But that is how I think the law is supposed to be interpretend and there is no doubt that both these guys hit the other in the face. I'm not going to be upset if Trimble gets away with it because he's in great form and deserves to be playing in the final based on that.

Someone with a bit of sense. Its rugby, fights happen. Do you want them turning into football players

trouttrout

I don't buy the "It's rugby" excuse. I mean in rugby two guys can get thick and shove each other around and common sense will prevail, and rightly so. But punching is a completely different matter altogether and has no place in the game imo

irishbucsfan

trouttrout wrote: »

I don't buy the "It's rugby" excuse. I mean in rugby two guys can get thick and shove each other around and common sense will prevail, and rightly so. But punching is a completely different matter altogether and has no place in the game imo

Ah punching has a place in the game. It's place is in the grey area of illegality within the game rather than something like gouging or spearing which have no place in the game.

Artful_Badger

trouttrout wrote: »

I don't buy the "It's rugby" excuse. I mean in rugby two guys can get thick and shove each other around and common sense will prevail, and rightly so. But punching is a completely different matter altogether and has no place in the game imo

10 minutes in the bin for what Trimble did though was adequate to discipline him imo. He didnt get away with it, he threw a dig which wasnt much of anything really and got a black eye and 10 minutes in the bin for his troubles. I'd buy the "its rugby" excuse to some degree, its a physical game and tempers will flare. Handbags and scuffles are always going to be part of some games. I'd agree punches shouldnt be tolerated but I dont see the odd dig as a scourge on the game that can be eradicated.

There is a difference in what Trimble and Williams did though. Williams completely lost it and attacked Trimble. That cant be tolerated and he should have gotten a red card.

irishbucsfan

Haha there's no way you can say one should have gotten a red while the other shouldn't. Trimble instigated the thing and punched Williams in the face more than once. Williams punched him in the face more than once.

Either both should have gotten a red (my opinion) or neither should.

Artful_Badger

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Haha there's no way you can say one should have gotten a red while the other shouldn't. Trimble instigated the thing and punched Williams in the face more than once. Williams punched him in the face more than once.

Either both should have gotten a red (my opinion) or neither should.

Course you can. Instigated it or not Williams went overboard in any context. A punch in a scuffle is one thing, landing on top of another player and throwing repeated punches to the face is a different level. Its an odd dig vs that McRae fella pummelling the face off ROG type thing.

19543261

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ah punching has a place in the game.

What.

19543261

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Course you can. Instigated it or not Williams went overboard in any context. A punch in a scuffle is one thing, landing on top of another player and throwing repeated punches to the face is a different level. Its an odd dig vs that McRae fella pummelling the face off ROG type thing.

Do have a look again at the replay if you havent, its difficult to tell because Trimble doesnt throw in blatant swings, but Williams head definitely does jerk back quite a bit from the smack. Both deserve citings, for different reasons.

I cant see how anyone would suggest carry on like that is okay. What do you think would happen if everyone reacted in the same way as Williams? Or smacks to the faces in rucks were common? Because "ah sure tempers are high, its only natural!"?

irishbucsfan

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Course you can. Instigated it or not Williams went overboard in any context. A punch in a scuffle is one thing, landing on top of another player and throwing repeated punches to the face is a different level. Its an odd dig vs that McRae fella pummelling the face off ROG type thing.

Trimble landed on top of Williams and punched HIM repeatedly.

Artful_Badger

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Trimble landed on top of Williams and punched HIM repeatedly.

Trimble landed beside him and punched him once lol. Williams got on top of Trimble who was on his knees and threw at least 3/4 punches to the face.

Artful_Badger

19543261 wrote: »

Do have a look again at the replay if you havent, its difficult to tell because Trimble doesnt throw in blatant swings, but Williams head definitely does jerk back quite a bit from the smack. Both deserve citings, for different reasons.

I cant see how anyone would suggest carry on like that is okay. What do you think would happen if everyone reacted in the same way as Williams? Or smacks to the faces in rucks were common? Because "ah sure tempers are high, its only natural!"?

I've looked at. Trimble does make contact but from his position it was more of fist pushed than a fist thrown. It was a dig but nothing too bad, I think a yellow was enough.

irishbucsfan

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Trimble landed beside him and punched him once lol. Williams got on top of Trimble who was on his knees and threw at least 3/4 punches to the face.

Right, I think you're clearly only seeing what you want to see if you think he only hit him once! He clearly hit him twice in the face and he would have landed more if he could.

Who was it who threw the first punch? Trimble. Williams certainly reacted and hit him more times and more aggressively but he is no more guilty in my book.

yimrsg

William's actions were an order of magnitude more severe than Trimble's, it should have been a yellow for Trimble and red for Williams.

Artful_Badger

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Right, I think you're clearly only seeing what you want to see if you think he only hit him once! He clearly hit him twice in the face and he would have landed more if he could.

Who was it who threw the first punch? Trimble. Williams certainly reacted and hit him more times and more aggressively but he is no more guilty in my book.

Its not about what I want to see, there is video footage of Trimble striking Williams once while holding his jersey. Still a dig but more in handbag fashion than anything. Trimble did instigate the punches though but still thats no excuse for Williams to do what he did. I'd differentiate between harmless digs and over tp top attacking. Digs will always be part of the game and a yellow to calm a player down is fine for those. What Williams did though was more and there really is no place in the game for players assaulting others like that.

irishbucsfan

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Its not about what I want to see, there is video footage of Trimble striking Williams once while holding his jersey. Still a dig but more in handbag fashion than anything. Trimble did instigate the punches though but still thats no excuse for Williams to do what he did. I'd differentiate between harmless digs and over tp top attacking. Digs will always be part of the game and a yellow to calm a player down is fine for those. What Williams did though was more and there really is no place in the game for players assaulting others like that.

Haha right I can see there ill be no balance here. Very easy to see he hit him twice in the video. And he was the instigator. To say one player should see red for punching three times and another who started the thing should see yellow for two bunches is just double standards.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Haha right I can see there ill be no balance here. Very easy to see he hit him twice in the video. And he was the instigator. To say one player should see red for punching three times and another who started the thing should see yellow for two bunches is just double standards.

I think there difference here is between punching and "hitting"/striking. There is one clear punch from Trimble and a second slap/shove which is borderline whether it's a punch or not

19543261

If this happened while both of them were standing it's hard to imagine they'd have only gotten yellows.

it would have been a boxing match on a rugby pitch.

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

I think there difference here is between punching and "hitting"/striking. There is one clear punch from Trimble and a second slap/shove which is borderline whether it's a punch or not

True. There is no difference in the laws though.

bilston

Lads we're not going to make much progress here!

Anyway I'd be surprised if Trimnle missed the final because of that.

I'm more concerned by Diack's half hearted attempt to trip a Scarlets player. It may just have been instinct and in the end he didnt get close to the player but I hate tripping, no matter who is responsible.

Artful_Badger

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Haha right I can see there ill be no balance here. Very easy to see he hit him twice in the video. And he was the instigator. To say one player should see red for punching three times and another who started the thing should see yellow for two bunches is just double standards.

Please look at the clip again, Trimble only hits him once. There is no double standards just a differentiation between a handbag dig and over the top repeated punching. One is a scuffle the other is assault.

sweetthing

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Please look at the clip again, Trimble only hits him once. There is no double standards just a differentiation between a handbag dig and over the top repeated punching. One is a scuffle the other is assault.

assault? good god. this is exactly the type of hyperbole I'm on about...seriously, if you are on the ground and a guy is digging you, how likely are you to keep your cool? purely reactionary, even if it was an over-reaction.

shuffol

The inconsistency in Rollands refereeing annoyed me, he obviously saw Trimble strike Williams first but didnt blow for a penalty, held his arm out for advantage to Ulster for slowing the ball down. Then after the flashpoint he gives the penalty to Scarlets for Trimble acting first. If he had've penalised Trimble initially the whole melee wouldnt have kicked off.

Artful_Badger

sweetthing wrote: »

assault? good god. this is exactly the type of hyperbole I'm on about...seriously, if you are on the ground and a guy is digging you, how likely are you to keep your cool? purely reactionary, even if it was an over-reaction.

Well thats what it was, he took it beyond a scuffle. I'm not trying to over inflate the thing, perhaps assault is a poorly chosen word. I'm just trying to verbalise the fact that I think Williams reaction was not acceptable even in that context. I've seen plenty of players lose their cool in situations like that and very few jump on an opponent and starts throwing fast repeated punches like Williams did. Its not acceptable reaction to what was handbags.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ah punching has a place in the game. It's place is in the grey area of illegality within the game rather than something like gouging or spearing which have no place in the game.

I actually agree with this. IT's a physical game, blood boils over, for the most part considering what happens at ruck time players keep a very cool head. The odd fisty cuffs are inevitable. I've often been on the receiving end of it and had a laugh with the guy afterwards.

If somebody gouged me however.... That's disgusting, completely different thing all together. It's exactly the type of thing that you reserve the phrase 'Has no place in rugby' for.