Nazism after World War 2

leonidas83

Just a quick question, do ye think nazism would have lived on long after Hitler died if Germany had won the war. He was in poor health up until the end of the war & its rumoured he wouldnt have lived long even if Germany had won the war. Would the empire have just broken up or do you do you think we'd all be speaking German today

Bill The Butcher

IMO i definitely think the empire would have survived Hitlers death.

boomchicawawa

If Germany had won the war then they would have seen off the two major post 40s superpowers. Can't see how this would have been achieved especially with America having the Atom bomb but if we take that as a given, then I would say that National Socialism would have thrived as the German people would have been well satisfied with this result. I'm sure the top dogs would have fought it out as to who would succeed himself. It would probably have been a bloody affair. A bit like the 'night of the long knives' I suspect with people being bumped off. I would think that Himmler would have come out on top in this event. He had the most sinister crew working for him after all. They would have seen off Goering and co no problem with some conspiracy plot. Fascism survived in Spain and South America well after WW2 so with Germany on a victory high it would have def gone on in my humble opinion. Thank God for the remaining Jewish populations and the enslaved peoples of Europe this did not happen :cool:

DazMarz

I reckon it would have. But where is the point of divergence from history that would have seen the Third Reich survive? Depending on the major event(s) that happened differently, the aftermath of the war and the aftermath of Hitler's death could have taken so many different paths.

Had Nazi Germany prevailed at Stalingrad (quite possibly the most decisive battle in the whole War) and driven on to capture the Asian oil fields, their war machine would have been nigh on unstoppable, even in the face of the huge numbers of Soviet forces. Add in had the Nazis captured Moscow (at points during the War, the spires of St. Basil's Cathedral in Moscow were visible through the binoculars of Nazi officers).

Another possible point of divergence could possibly have been a Nazi victory at the beaches of Northern France. Had the Nazis successfully repelled the Allied invasions on D-Day, it would have meant that the Western Front was never opened, or would have been opened much later. This could have given the Nazis breathing space to concentrate on repelling the Soviets in the East and the Allies pushing up from Italy.

There are so many "what if's" in the Second World War where had the Nazis emerged victorious, the effects on the War could have been absolutely huge.

But in short, I would think that had the Nazis prevailed in the Second World War, it would have left a landscape similar to that seen in Robert Harris's Fatherland (a brilliant read for anyone who has an interest in World War II or Nazism). The Nazis would control Western Europe and vast swathes of the East; the Americans and the Nazis would be the two superpowers and locked in a bitter Cold War; the Nazis would be embroiled in an endless forever war against Soviet guerilla forces on the Eastern Front. Something like that.

Following Hitler, I would think that Heinrich Himmler would be the most likely candidate to assume power. He was always seen as the heir-apparent throughout the reign of Hitler (it was only in the final days of the war when he "betrayed" Hitler by trying to broker peace with the Americans and British that he lost his special position with Hitler). He also controlled the SS and a lot of other Nazi organisations and would have been best placed to assume control in the circumstances. Other candidates (Goebbels, Goering, von Ribbentrop, Bormann, Speer, Keitel, etc.) would not have been as well placed with both strength of arms and politically as Himmler would have been.

While the Reich may not have lasted the thousand years Hitler envisioned, I reckon it would most certainly have outlasted him for many years beyond. Quite possibly under Der Fuhrer Heinrich Himmler.

Tony EH

Germany would never have won the war...any war.

Presuming the best set of events and Hitler's plans go the way he wished and the war was contained to the East only (ie without the West getting themselves involved), Germany, at best, could hope for an uneasy peace with Russia. In such a scenario, Europe probably would have ended up in a situation much like Korea, whereby there would have been a border that was static but watched very carefully by either side.

With Hitler's death, which would have happened quite soon after 1945 in real life, the system of government would have carried on, but maybe in a different manner. I think Germany would have made better efforts to deal with the West and the West would be more willing to deal with Germany too, given the general distrust of Russia that was prevalent throughout the ruling classes of most nations.

In the long run, Germany would have probably ended up resembling Franco's post war Spain, or war would have kicked off again over some border dispute. I think the former is more likely.

Elmer Blooker

leonidas83 wrote: »

Just a quick question, do ye think nazism would have lived on long after Hitler died if Germany had won the war. He was in poor health up until the end of the war & its rumoured he wouldnt have lived long even if Germany had won the war. Would the empire have just broken up or do you do you think we'd all be speaking German today

Germany could never have won the war, from 1933 when Hitler came to power there was only one outcome - the destruction of Germany.
German poet Heinrich Heine, (1797-1856) Jewish by birth, prophesied in 1823

......Where they burn books they will also burn people.....



May 10th 1933

tac foley

Another TWO good reads are 'SS-GB' by Len Deighton, and 'Dominion' by C J Sansom.

tac

claypigeon777

The only way Nazi Germany could have won the war is if they had not been delayed by the crucial weeks wasted capturing the Balkans and ejecting the British from Greece and Crete, if Hitler's armies had reached Moscow before December 1941 and he had not declared war on the United States after Pearl Harbor. Stalin would have been forced to abandon Moscow which might have cost him the leadership of the Soviet Union. The Soviets would have squabbled among themselves and cut a peace deal with the Nazis.
The pressure would have been piled on Churchill to make a deal with the Soviets out of the game while the Japs were gobbling up Asia and the Germans could concentrate on beating the British in North Africa. If the British had made peace with the Nazis the Americans would probably not have got involved in Europe without Britain made available as giant aircraft carrier and a jump off point for an invasion of Western Europe. Without the Soviet Union in the war the Western allies would have been unable to conquer France and push the Germans back to the Rhine.
The Americans would have focused on defeating the Japanese but without a Soviet invasion of Manchuria or a British presence in Burma it is very possible Japan could have drawn with the Americans in the Pacific.
Hitler's raison d'etre was as a war leader.
Post war he would probably have been overthrown by an assassination or coup by either the SS or the German Army.
If the Third Reich were to survive the best bet would have been on a German Army dictator and perhaps the return of the Hohenzollern monarch which had been the dream of Paul Hindenburg.
The outcome of the war would have been a Europe dominated by German from the Bay of Biscay to the Russian steppes from Scandinavia to North Africa with France under their hegemony.
Britain would have lost control of India and Pakistan but struggled to hold on Africa but eventually become a puppet of the Germans.
Japan might have ended up in control of China.
America would have grabbed the Middle East for itself.
The Soviets would be internationally isolated and weak and might have continued a guerrilla struggle against the Germans with America supplying them arms.
Germany would have had superior jet aircraft, missiles and space rocket technology than the United States and would probably have reached the Moon by the late 1960s by which time there would be moves toward detante between the Nazis and the U.S.

Manach

On the main thread, Nazism after WWII - there is an interesting counterfactual novel by Harry Turtledove on how a future Nazi Empire evolved - "In the Presence of Mine Enemies". In short it goes down a path similar to Russia's to the era of Yeltsein.
On the side thread - from my readings, yes Germany could have won WWII given a differing set of events occurring - but - as per a recent book I read on Field Marshal Von Manstein, they had on uphill battle to climb to overcome their strategic problem of fighting wars on multiple fronts and that their industrial base performed below par for several years into the war.

claypigeon777

Manach wrote: »

On the main thread, Nazism after WWII - there is an interesting counterfactual novel by Harry Turtledove on how a future Nazi Empire evolved - "In the Presence of Mine Enemies". In short it goes down a path similar to Russia's to the era of Yeltsein.
On the side thread - from my readings, yes Germany could have won WWII given a differing set of events occurring - but - as per a recent book I read on Field Marshal Von Manstein, they had on uphill battle to climb to overcome their strategic problem of fighting wars on multiple fronts and that their industrial base performed below par for several years into the war.

Once the U.S. and Soviet war industries got going the war was effectively over. The Nazis had a narrow window of time to win. Force Britain to the negotiation table and capture Moscow. Once those chances were missed then the game was up.