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Neighbour etiquette

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    #32
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    Mr.Fred wrote: »
    Which was an unfortunate accident and not really related to this thread. We're talking about parking your car in a drive way not reversing a 20 ton lorry up a narrow lane.

    Perhaps if a bit more attention was paid to driver education at an earlier age we wouldn't have so many careless drivers over here.

    It doesn't matter what age a driver is when they are educated. Many people of all ages are clearly ignorant of the law relating to parking and reversing.


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    #33
    FaganJr
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    It doesn't matter what age a driver is when they are educated. Many people of all ages are clearly ignorant of the law relating to parking and reversing.

    And you sir are clearly ignorant to the FACT that reversing out of your driveway in an estate is in NO Way illegal.

    now go away!


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    #34
    Mr.Fred
    Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Mr.Fred


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    It is illegal. There is a saver if the driver clearly knows it is safe. That can really only happen when there is someone directing the driver from the road. Sitting in a car with your back to the public road and reversing out is not safe other than in very limited circumstances. Those limited circumstance do not amount to a "massive difference".

    It clearly isn't illegal. Jesus you're like a dog with a bone.


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    #35
    Mr.Fred
    Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Mr.Fred


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    It doesn't matter what age a driver is when they are educated. Many people of all ages are clearly ignorant of the law relating to parking and reversing.

    There are also many who have no idea of the laws. You may include yourself in that category. :eek:


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    #36
    Mr.Fred
    Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Mr.Fred


    FaganJr wrote: »
    And you sir are clearly ignorant to the FACT that reversing out of your driveway in an estate is in NO Way illegal.

    now go away!

    +1 :D


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    #37
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    Mr.Fred wrote: »
    +1 :D

    (3) A driver shall not reverse from a place adjacent to a  public  road onto a  public  road

    What part of SHALL NOT do you not understand?
    When a law states SHALL NOT it is mandatory and to do it is an offence.


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    #38
    FaganJr
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    (3) A driver shall not reverse from a place adjacent to a  public  road onto a  public  road

    What part of SHALL NOT do you not understand?
    When a law states SHALL NOT it is mandatory and to do it is an offence.

    A place adjacent still is not and never will be a driveway. If anything a driveway. is perpendicular to its access road. Now for the last time. STOP!


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    #39
    Whatever_fools
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Whatever_fools


    Getting back to the OP, we'd a similar issue. We have a single driveway and 2 cars and our neighbours have a double driveway and at the time had 4 cars! When we moved in they used to park outside our house (because the people who used to live in our house only had one car) which meant that we have to park our second car across the road. My husband popped in and had a quick chat with them and it was all sorted in a flash. Now we only have one car but they still don't park outside our house so we're still happy. An informal chat would be my recommendation and try to stay calm at the same time!


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    #40
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    FaganJr wrote: »
    A place adjacent still is not and never will be a driveway. If anything a driveway. is perpendicular to its access road. Now for the last time. STOP!

    A driveway is adjacent to the public road. The fact that it is perpendicular does not mean it is not adjacent. English is the language of this forum not the language of Euclidean geometry. The driveway touches the road, it is adjacent to it.


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    #41
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    (3) A driver shall not reverse from a place adjacent to a  public  road onto a  public  road

    What part of SHALL NOT do you not understand?
    When a law states SHALL NOT it is mandatory and to do it is an offence.

    Perhaps, had you quoted the entire sentence, and not just the part of it that supports your hypothesis, it would make a lot more sense.

    The road traffic act states:

    Reversing


    12. (1) Before reversing, a driver shall ensure that to so reverse would not endanger other traffic or pedestrians.


    (2) A driver shall not reverse onto a major road from another road.


    (3) A driver shall not reverse from a place adjacent to a public road onto a public road save where it is clear to the driver that to so reverse would not endanger other traffic or pedestrians.


    It most certainly does not state that you cannot reverse from your driveway onto the road in an estate. Even the rules of the road simply says to give way to pedestrians or other traffic (see page 46). Aka- exercise due caution, and don't endanger other traffic or pedestrians- and off you go.

    You are explicitly told not to reverse from a minor road to a major road (quite rightly so, given how dangerous it is).

    From an insurance perspective- if you're involved in an accident while reversing- you are automatically considered to be in the wrong. Legally- its another matter.


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    #42
    Honey-ec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,844 ✭✭✭Honey-ec


    Unless they're physically blocking your drive you've very little recourse, OP. On a public road, they've as much right to park outside your house as you do.

    A friendly chat might achieve the outcome you want, but they're perfectly entitled to tell you to sod off.

    No-one has an automatic right to park outside their house unless they legally own the road outside, which is very rarely the case in most urban/suburban areas.

    My brother lives in a managed estate and doesn't even own his driveway.


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    #43
    Whatever_fools
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Whatever_fools


    I think its more about doing the decent thing as opposed to whether they are 'entitled' to or not. People are 'entitled' to do a lot of things and thank god they don't always do them!


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    #44
    Honey-ec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,844 ✭✭✭Honey-ec


    Whatever_fools wrote: »
    I think its more about doing the decent thing as opposed to whether they are 'entitled' to or not. People are 'entitled' to do a lot of things and thank god they don't always do them!

    I know that, I'm just saying the OP shouldn't be surprised if they tell her to feck off. In my experience, nothing sours neighbourly relations quicker than car-parking issues.


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    #45
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    On the driveway/reversing thing - my driving instructor at the time explained it to me as ok to reverse from a driveway within a housing estate but if your house was off a public road (ie one used by traffic other than residents), then it was illegal to reverse out. Still I drive down the Navan Road almost every day (N3) and see cars reversing from driveways into heavy traffic.


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    #46
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Perhaps, had you quoted the entire sentence, and not just the part of it that supports your hypothesis, it would make a lot more sense.

    The road traffic act states:

    Reversing


    12. (1) Before reversing, a driver shall ensure that to so reverse would not endanger other traffic or pedestrians.


    (2) A driver shall not reverse onto a major road from another road.


    (3) A driver shall not reverse from a place adjacent to a public road onto a public road save where it is clear to the driver that to so reverse would not endanger other traffic or pedestrians.


    It most certainly does not state that you cannot reverse from your driveway onto the road in an estate. Even the rules of the road simply says to give way to pedestrians or other traffic (see page 46). Aka- exercise due caution, and don't endanger other traffic or pedestrians- and off you go.

    You are explicitly told not to reverse from a minor road to a major road (quite rightly so, given how dangerous it is).

    You are expressly told not to reverse from a place adjacent to a public road onto a public road. What do you think a driveway is? Something on another planet!


    The Firearms and Offensive Weapons ACt has similar type provisions.
    9.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.

    (2) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.


    There is an offence of carrying a sharply pointed knife in a public place. people are frequently convicted of it. There is a defence to show that there is a good reason.
    In general it is illegal to carry a carpet knife around the streets. A person doing so may be able to avail of a defence but the starting point is that it is illegal.
    Similarly with reversing from a driveway. With regard to reversing from a driveway the driver will only know it is safe in a very small number of cases usually where he is assisted by a person outside the car.


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    #47
    Honey-ec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,844 ✭✭✭Honey-ec


    athtrasna wrote: »
    On the driveway/reversing thing - my driving instructor at the time explained it to me as ok to reverse from a driveway within a housing estate but if your house was off a public road (ie one used by traffic other than residents), then it was illegal to reverse out. Still I drive down the Navan Road almost every day (N3) and see cars reversing from driveways into heavy traffic.

    Regardless of the legalities in housing estates, the fact of the matter is that it's just good practice to reverse into any parking space that isn't a slant one.


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    #48
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    Honey-ec wrote: »
    Regardless of the legalities in housing estates, the fact of the matter is that it's just good practice to reverse into any parking space that isn't a slant one.

    The housing estates issue is concerned with public roads. Some housing estate have management companies and the road is not a public road. The vast majority of houses adjoin a public road whether in a housing estate or not.


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    #49
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Well, while not exactly examplary etiquette it's not exactly the crime of the century is it? So your husband can't pull out in a straight line, doesn't sound like a life or death situation to me.


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    #50
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    MrsLimerick wrote: »
    My husband , 11month old son and I moved into our rented house in October 2012 and we have never had any problems with our neighbours until the last week .

    We live at the end of a cul-de-sac and we have one car and only room for one car in our driveway.
    The house across the way have two spaces in there drive way for there two cars yet they insist on parking both there cars outside there driveway roughly 10 inches away from there drive and at an angle .

    My husband drives into our drive when he comes home and reverses out in the morning going to work , lately its been very awkward for him to reverse he has to make more of an effort insted of going straight back like he used to.

    The new neighbours moved in just over a week ago and everything was fine they were parking in there own drive way but then one day they just stopped and i wouldn't mind if they were doing work in there lawn or driveway and it was only temporary but there not they seem to be just doing it out of ignorance. they have no consideration for any of the other neighbours who have to turn at the bottom of the cul-de-sac or us.

    Its impossible to try and talk to them as they don't stay long outside for you to talk to them eg they were home one day and the postman went to the door and rang the doorbell and knocked on the door and they wouldn't answer it.

    I get awfully stressed as i don't understand how people can be so ignorant and just cant be neighbourly and polite it would make life so much easier.
    Has anyone had similar issues as mine and how did you deal with them?


    I had something similar before so I just parked like they were parking outside their house. Didnt have to do it long. All sorted no words exchanged.


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    #51
    Duiske
    Registered Users Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭Duiske


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    (3) A driver shall not reverse from a place adjacent to a  public  road onto a  public  road

    What part of SHALL NOT do you not understand?
    When a law states SHALL NOT it is mandatory and to do it is an offence.

    Here's the full sentence.
    (3) A driver shall not reverse from a place adjacent to a  public  road onto a  public  road, save where it is clear to the driver that to so reverse would not endanger other traffic or pedestrians.

    Why did you leave the bolded part out ? Could it be because it invalidates your argument and makes it clear that reversing from a driveway onto a road, in a safe manner that does not endanger other traffic or pedestrians, is NOT ILLEGAL ?


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    #52
    mari2222
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭mari2222


    athtrasna wrote: »
    On the driveway/reversing thing - my driving instructor at the time explained it to me as ok to reverse from a driveway within a housing estate but if your house was off a public road (ie one used by traffic other than residents), then it was illegal to reverse out. Still I drive down the Navan Road almost every day (N3) and see cars reversing from driveways into heavy traffic.

    You see, they are conditioned by NAVAN being the same in reverse.!


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    #53
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    mari2222 wrote: »
    You see, they are conditioned by NAVAN being the same in reverse.!

    Haha.....
    Lets move on.
    Kosseegan has their opinion and has shared it.
    I can keep this thread open if there is any good reason to do so.


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    #54
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    Duiske wrote: »
    Here's the full sentence.



    Why did you leave the bolded part out ? Could it be because it invalidates your argument and makes it clear that reversing from a driveway onto a road, in a safe manner that does not endanger other traffic or pedestrians, is NOT ILLEGAL ?

    Dis you post that because you hadn't read the preceding posts? It most certainly is illegal. In the vast majority of situations reversing out of a domestic driveway cannot be done legally. It might be possible from a large open area adjacent to the road such as a garage forecourt where the driver has a full view. In the case of a driveway from a private house the driver will have a very limited field of view.
    Just because an exception is provided for some situations does not mean all situations are treated likewise.
    Q. Is it illegal to walk around a shopping centre with a sharp 30cm long carpet knife?


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    #55
    FaganJr
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    Dis you post that because you hadn't read the preceding posts? It most certainly is illegal. In the vast majority of situations reversing out of a domestic driveway cannot be done legally. It might be possible from a large open area adjacent to the road such as a garage forecourt where the driver has a full view. In the case of a driveway from a private house the driver will have a very limited field of view.
    Just because an exception is provided for some situations does not mean all situations are treated likewise.
    Q. Is it illegal to walk around a shopping centre with a sharp 30cm long carpet knife?

    Your Still WORNG WRONG WRONG!

    W_______R_______O________N______G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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    #56
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,411 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    FaganJr wrote: »
    And you sir are clearly ignorant to the FACT that reversing out of your driveway in an estate is in NO Way illegal.

    now go away!
    Lose the attitude

    Moderator


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    #57
    FaganJr
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    Victor wrote: »
    Lose the attitude

    Moderator

    No Attitude Just FACT! :rolleyes:


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    #58
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    FaganJr wrote: »
    No Attitude Just FACT! :rolleyes:

    Fine. Now lets move on.


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    #59
    MrsLimerick
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭MrsLimerick


    i just want to thank everyone for there helpful posts ( not the ones who were bickering and going off point ) I really appreciate it, all is fine now and some that do reply to posts need to read the post properly i didn't say they were parking outside my driveway , they were parking outside there driveway which is straight across from my house at the end of a cul de sac making it awkward to reverse out .


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    #60
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    MrsLimerick wrote: »
    i just want to thank everyone for there helpful posts ( not the ones who were bickering and going off point ) I really appreciate it, all is fine now and some that do reply to posts need to read the post properly i didn't say they were parking outside my driveway , they were parking outside there driveway which is straight across from my house at the end of a cul de sac making it awkward to reverse out .

    Now you know you shouldn't be reversing out, so problem solved!


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    #61
    FaganJr
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    Now you know you shouldn't be reversing out, so problem solved!

    Glad it's all sorted, but the bickering as you call it was genuine people trying to advise you not to listen to idiotic advice.


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