2013 Bord Gais U21Hurling Championship.

Thinkstoomuch

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

Im not sure Sean og to be honest.
He even admitted himself to be more a coach than manager.
And what he said about the small clubs in Cork,he wouldnt go down too well.

Pat Mulchay,Mark Landers,Eddie Murphy should be involved but it is unlikely.
Tonight was awful to watch.

To see Donal O Grady for tg4 made it worse.He should be involved in underage in Cork instead of on tv.He would make a great u21manager.

O'Grady is an absolute genius and i would credit him as much as John Allen for setting Limerick in motion. He is so well respected by players and fellow managers in the game and yet he always struck me as reluctant or caretaker until someone else could take the role the time he was Cork manager? Is he a bit reluctant to dip his toes due to the politics and infighting that goes on in counties, in particular Cork and Limerick given the disputes in the recent past?

Thinkstoomuch

[Deleted User] wrote: »

O'Grady is an absolute genius and i would credit him as much as John Allen for setting Limerick in motion. He is so well respected by players and fellow managers in the game and yet he always struck me as reluctant or caretaker until someone else could take the role the time he was Cork manager? Is he a bit reluctant to dip his toes due to the politics and infighting that goes on in counties, in particular Cork and Limerick given the disputes in the recent past?

He never changes hes mind and said from the outset that he only wanted a two year term with Cork and one year with Limerick.

I posted our intermediate team for friday night just now on the Cork thread.

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there a thing in Cork where the county board are still putting their own men in charge as opposed to the best men?

Donal Og made an interesting comment on the Sunday Game highlights when he said the Cork county board didn't think Allen's face was the right fit for the job?

John Allen has never gotten the credit he deserves in Cork, becasue he's not a mouth piece, keeps he's head down and he's mouth shut and does a very good job. Because of he's background with the Barr's and who was around there at the time, he has always kind of been viewed as a compromise or a second best appointment in Cork, both redicolous virews as he has proved.

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

I had voiced my concerns,last January and a lot the past month and even in the opening post on this thread about this management team.I truly never believed it could be as bad as this.

To be fair you have questioned and slated every managemement team in Cork with the exception of JBM, a stoped clock will be right at least twice a day, perhaps the pool of talent isn't as deep as you assume??

Deleted User wrote: »

Its sort of sad that the likes of Sean Og O'hAilpin or Donal Og Cusack (both very knowledgeable hurling men) will probably never get the chance to manage Cork should they wish to do so because both men would demand so much support out of the County board while they drag them into the 21st century that they would be nearly seen as dissenters.

To be honest I wouldn't let Sean Og over an under 8 team, Donal og I agree would certainly add to any setup and is a very knowledgable guy who has great passion for the game and for Cork in particular.

Thinkstoomuch

premierstone wrote: »

John Allen has never gotten the credit he deserves in Cork, becasue he's not a mouth piece, keeps he's head down and he's mouth shut and does a very good job. Because of he's background with the Barr's and who was around there at the time, he has always kind of been viewed as a compromise or a second best appointment in Cork, both redicolous virews as he has proved.



To be fair you have questioned and slated every managemement team in Cork with the exception of JBM, a stoped clock will be right at least twice a day, perhaps the pool of talent isn't as deep as you assume??



To be honest I wouldn't let Sean Og over an under 8 team, Donal og I agree would certainly add to any setup and is a very knowledgable guy who has great passion for the game and for Cork in particular.

I questioned all those management teams with good reason and based on poor track records.That is a fair question about talent,but no Cork team with the players we had last night,should be beaten by 15 points.Even Tippereary fans said to me ,this was one of the worst Cork displays they saw in a long time.

In fairness,i did not slate the U21 football manager Cleary but praised him.
To say i slated every management team,is far from the truth.

I dont slate them,for the sake of it,i geuinely doubt those guys.

I raised my concerns about the minor manager,in relation to our footballers,as based on hes recent record and the fact their is better managers in Cork than him.
If i raise my concerns after their terms,then it would seem I just jump on the bandwagon.

The fact i question ,our management teams a lot,is the fact we always pick the wrong guys for the jobs most of the times.

I would not be keen on Sean Og either on he's own.

I have questiond a few of JBMS decisions also but i do feel him and the management team are the best men for the job and have records to prove that.

The problem is they have to build Cork up from rock bottom,and are hindered by a severe lack of underage success.

And based on last nights results we could loose more hurlers to the footballers.

Jamie Wall,and Mark Sugrue are the main ones with Michael Cahalane down the line.

Mountainlad

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

Jamie Wall,and Mark Sugrue are the main ones with Michael Cahalane down the line.

Dunno what ye make of him, and I don't watn to be too harsh on one guy who I've not seen a lot of, but he got a beautfiul low ball played into him in the first half and even though he got in front his first touch took the ball about 15 yards out in front of him. Suggests they were a poorly coached side I think.

For that last Clare point we didnt even need hawkeye to see it was wide. What were the umpires thinking? Clare just about deserve to be in front so far though

Scrappy game that ref is in danger of losing control of.

Fireball07

Not around for the game tonight, but Tipp were seriously impressive last night. Cork weren't great but the skill levels and movement of the Tipp attack were top class. Their ruthlessness in front of goal was like watching KK at their peak and their defence were very good too, the half-back line totally dominated.

Clareman

I only caught the last 5 minutes of this, but it seems to me that Waterford look more interested in hitting/injuring the Clare players than going for the ball and the ref is making some very strange decisions, what was the sending off for?

Clareman

Hurley into the neck, can't be much complaints about that sending off.

Clareman

Clareman wrote: »

I only caught the last 5 minutes of this, but it seems to me that Waterford look more interested in hitting/injuring the Clare players than going for the ball and the ref is making some very strange decisions, what was the sending off for?

Popped out for a second and missed the sending off so dunno but id say it swung the game in ye're favour. So Tipp v Clare in Thurles...will be interesting. Winner plays Galway then and more than likely Wexford in the All Ireland final barring a huge huge upset.

Id imagine Clare/Galway v Wexford would be pencilled in for Portlaoise or Thurles but a Tipp v Wexford final would probably take place in Nowlan Park. Is it neutral this year or is there this bizarre agreement still in place to play it in Thurles whether we get there or not?

Hidalgo

Deleted User wrote: »

Popped out for a second and missed the sending off so dunno but id say it swung the game in ye're favour. So Tipp v Clare in Thurles...will be interesting. Winner plays Galway then and more than likely Wexford in the All Ireland final barring a huge huge upset.

Id imagine Clare/Galway v Wexford would be pencilled in for Portlaoise or Thurles but a Tipp v Wexford final would probably take place in Nowlan Park. Is it neutral this year or is there this bizarre agreement still in place to play it in Thurles whether we get there or not?

Ya the sending off helped swing it in Clare's favour, we were playing fairly fractured hurling for the most part till then. Giving away a lot of silly frees.
2nd goal put it to bed.

Should be an 'interesting' final. Tipp with home advantage. Clare will get very little chance to train together with seniors involved for another 10 days at least.
4th time the sides have met in finals at this grade since 08 I think, Tipp up 2-1 in that time period

Hidalgo

Hidalgo wrote: »

Ya the sending off helped swing it in Clare's favour, we were playing fairly fractured hurling for the most part till then. Giving away a lot of silly frees.
2nd goal put it to bed.

Should be an 'interesting' final. Tipp with home advantage. Clare will get very little chance to train together with seniors involved for another 10 days at least.
4th time the sides have met in finals at this grade since 08 I think, Tipp up 2-1 in that time period

To be fair though we got more than a slice of fortune in 2008. Yes by the letter of the law the goalie was outside the line but it didnt give Clare any advantage. Ye would have in all likelihood have won possession anyway and scored that point even if the goalie was inside the line. On top of that there was huge inconsistency with enforcing that rule. It would seem the umpire that night done it perhaps to prove a point to the goalkeeper if there was an exchange of views at some stage.

Mountainlad

Clareman wrote: »

I only caught the last 5 minutes of this, but it seems to me that Waterford look more interested in hitting/injuring the Clare players than going for the ball and the ref is making some very strange decisions, what was the sending off for?

Like when?

I notice the Sliothar has a real bounce these days.

Which is the more defining factor contributing to this? Is it the fact the ground is so hard or the fact the sliothar has a rubber core? or both?

Hidalgo

Deleted User wrote: »

I notice the Sliothar has a real bounce these days.

Which is the more defining factor contributing to this? Is it the fact the ground is so hard or the fact the sliothar has a rubber core? or both?

At times in tonight's game, there was a few occasions when lads went to catch a bouncing ball it nearly bounced over their heads. I'd say the ground was rock hard.

Hidalgo

Hidalgo wrote: »

At times in tonight's game, there was a few occasions when lads went to catch a bouncing ball it nearly bounced over their heads. I'd say the ground was rock hard.

I reckon its more the ground myself but that said the core of the sliothar is more rubber based these times so with hard ground you'd really see a difference. Not so much soft ground.

Hidalgo

Deleted User wrote: »

I reckon its more the ground myself but that said the core of the sliothar is more rubber based these times so with hard ground you'd really see a difference. Not so much soft ground.

The ball does really move nowadays, in relation to last night I was talking to a friend who walked across the pitch afterwards and said it was like a tennis court.

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

Popped out for a second and missed the sending off so dunno but id say it swung the game in ye're favour. So Tipp v Clare in Thurles...will be interesting. Winner plays Galway then and more than likely Wexford in the All Ireland final barring a huge huge upset.

Id imagine Clare/Galway v Wexford would be pencilled in for Portlaoise or Thurles but a Tipp v Wexford final would probably take place in Nowlan Park. Is it neutral this year or is there this bizarre agreement still in place to play it in Thurles whether we get there or not?

U21 AI will be in Thurles regardless of who is in it. If Tipp were to make it to the AI they would play 4 out of their 5 games in the stadium, a pretty significant advantage that hopefully the lads can take full advantage of.

Mr Tibbs

Clareman wrote: »

I only caught the last 5 minutes of this, but it seems to me that Waterford look more interested in hitting/injuring the Clare players than going for the ball and the ref is making some very strange decisions, what was the sending off for?

You only caught the last five minutes and you post that comment. Well I was in Walsh Park for the whole game and both sides weren't shy. Clare deserved their win and the best of luck to them.

Martin567

premierstone wrote: »

U21 AI will be in Thurles regardless of who is in it. If Tipp were to make it to the AI they would play 4 out of their 5 games in the stadium, a pretty significant advantage that hopefully the lads can take full advantage of.

How long is that rule going to be allowed to continue? I know Kilkenny will be expecting to have home advantage the next time we play Tipp in an U21 Final. It doesn't matter this year but it will happen again in the future.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

U21 AI will be in Thurles regardless of who is in it. If Tipp were to make it to the AI they would play 4 out of their 5 games in the stadium, a pretty significant advantage that hopefully the lads can take full advantage of.

I was just thinking this morning there that they probably will host it in Thurles given that they are going for a 7pm throw in these times and Semple is the only big ground other than Croker that has floodlights. Huge advantage tbf if we get there that is

premierstone

Martin567 wrote: »

How long is that rule going to be allowed to continue? I know Kilkenny will be expecting to have home advantage the next time we play Tipp in an U21 Final. It doesn't matter this year but it will happen again in the future.

It was passed in congress in 2009, with full support, including Galway who then decided they were completely opposed to it when they were paired against Tipp 10 months later!

I have no idea Martin if there is any time limit on it but I doubt it, surely if was to be reviewed it would have been done by now?

Martin567

Martin567 wrote: »

How long is that rule going to be allowed to continue? I know Kilkenny will be expecting to have home advantage the next time we play Tipp in an U21 Final. It doesn't matter this year but it will happen again in the future.

Tbh i would prefer to play it at a neutral ground too. Bit unfair on one team giving a few hours travelling on a bus while the others are within a stone throw away of the ground.

That said though Galway were a bit ridiculous complaining the way they did that time. Firstly it was made clear to them and other counties in April 2010 what the scenario is, secondly they have a huge advantage themselves given that they only play two games to win an u21 title and thirdly they were beaten by 25 points. A small margin i could understand but they never looked in danger of even putting some sort of respectability on the margin.

But yes its something that needs to be addressed in a fair manner. It sort of takes the gloss off a win if we manage to do it.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

It was passed in congress in 2009, with full support, including Galway who then decided they were completely opposed to it when they were paired against Tipp 10 months later!

I have no idea Martin if there is any time limit on it but I doubt it, surely if was to be reviewed it would have been done by now?

Yep I recall that too and I can't ever imagine anything as big and crucial as that was ran on anyone without getting the full majority vote. I think Thurles certainly makes more sense then Croker did for an u21 final. That was an unbelievably daft notion.

Galway funnily had no objection in 2007 and even went on and put 7 goals past Dublin.

There is this daft notion that home advantage is only if the ground is owned by the opposition county board but its more then that. Simple geography really. Hours on a bus for the travelling team vs Minutes for the local lads, More fans being able to get there for the local team without having to worry about travel consuming their whole day while the 'away' fans have all these logistics like time and money to worry about.

Hidalgo

Deleted User wrote: »

I was just thinking this morning there that they probably will host it in Thurles given that they are going for a 7pm throw in these times and Semple is the only big ground other than Croker that has floodlights. Huge advantage tbf if we get there that is

Gaelic Grounds would be another option, depending on what teams involved. Has lights and ideally located for a Galway V Tipp final.

Does Portlaoise or O' Connor Park in Tullamore not have lights? Either of those would probably be better located than Limerick for a final.

Hidalgo

Hidalgo wrote: »

Gaelic Grounds would be another option, depending on what teams involved. Has lights and ideally located for a Galway V Tipp final.

Does Portlaoise or O' Connor Park in Tullamore not have lights? Either of those would probably be better located than Limerick for a final.

For 2013, Galway and Tipp/Clare wont contest the final as Munster play Connacht in the semi but id imagine it could be used in the event of a semi alright. Portlaoise has lights alright but im not sure about O'Connor park tbh.

Come to think of it with Leinster v Ulster and Munster v Connacht i would reckon Tullamore will get the semis which will probably be played of a Saturday.

Mountainlad

Hidalgo wrote: »

Gaelic Grounds would be another option, depending on what teams involved. Has lights and ideally located for a Galway V Tipp final.

Does Portlaoise or O' Connor Park in Tullamore not have lights? Either of those would probably be better located than Limerick for a final.

I'd be opposed to the Gaelic grounds as it is a dire pitch. Would take from the enjoyment of the game.

Thinkstoomuch

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

You are on the ball.Congratualtions on the win,and i do not want to take from Tipp but no way with the talent available should we be beaten like that.
Im sick in my stomach after that.

The CCB are the same old story.
Just look at who was appointed as minor football manager last night,and not even a n interview process with other applicants took place.The same guy was a selector,for four unsuccesful years before.

I had voiced my concerns,last January and a lot the past month and even in the opening post on this thread about this management team.I truly never believed it could be as bad as this.

I may sound and honestly do not mean to be like a broken record and have no agenda against Ger Fitz,but like many Cork fans who cry out for underage success,know he is not a good manager.
He was and always will be to me a great player.But not a manager.
This was the worst team performance in the whole championship so far.

We have the same problem with our minor hurlers,and their is every chance both Pat Kenneally and Ger Fitzgerald will still be involved next year.

I watched the game again on tg4 player last night and i noticed when Cork played a shorter game they caused us some real problems. They practically walked their first goal into the net when the game was in the melting pot and Sugrue caused us no end of problems. Surprised though that for the majority of the game Cork played it long and direct when it was set up for them to play it short because Tipp were loose enough

Thinkstoomuch

Antrim V Derry Ulster Final Tonight Casement Park.

Antrim 5-18 Derry 0-6

Antrim v Wexford all ireland semifinal.

Fireball07

Tipp-Clare tomorrow night...on performances so far, I'd expect Tipp to win even though Clare have a nice few seniors playing in an All-Ireland semi-final.

Tipp look like a very slick, very organised outfit with some very talented players.

Mountainlad

Fireball07 wrote: »

Tipp-Clare tomorrow night...on performances so far, I'd expect Tipp to win even though Clare have a nice few seniors playing in an All-Ireland semi-final.

Tipp look like a very slick, very organised outfit with some very talented players.

Tipp have had two games in Thurles an no dobut that will help them, the pitch suits them anyway. But at the same time it will also suit Clare's style, a lot better than Walsh Park did and Waterford played a containment game that day. The loss of Tony Kelly has to have been significant in that game and also Clare's better players (much like Waterford's) would have been tire from their exploits the previous Saturday night.

With the benefit of a game they will be in better stead. Tipp have been comfortable in both games, and they work well together as a unit. Clare have the better team on paper but home advantage is certainly important. Should be a very close game.

Akrasia

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tipp have had two games in Thurles an no dobut that will help them, the pitch suits them anyway. But at the same time it will also suit Clare's style, a lot better than Walsh Park did and Waterford played a containment game that day. The loss of Tony Kelly has to have been significant in that game and also Clare's better players (much like Waterford's) would have been tire from their exploits the previous Saturday night.

With the benefit of a game they will be in better stead. Tipp have been comfortable in both games, and they work well together as a unit. Clare have the better team on paper but home advantage is certainly important. Should be a very close game.

They're showing this on Tg4 tomorrow at 7.15pm for those who can't make it to the game.

Should be a cracker

Thinkstoomuch

Ken Hogan has named an unchanged team for Wednesday night’s (August 7th) Munster under-21 hurling final clash with defending champions Clare at Semple Stadium, Thurles (throw-in 7.30pm).


At the semi-final stage of the campaign Tipperary saw off Cork on a 5-19 to 2-13 scoreline. Indeed, the quality of that display impressed many keen observers of the game and none more so than manager Ken Hogan. For the Lorrha man showing pride in your work and how you go about your business is a significant issue; an issue which features in his assessment of players.

“We don’t give any orations, but we would be very conscious of it,” Ken Hogan explained.

“We would talk to players individually about it. The key thing is that the players themselves want that more than anybody else. They have shown that pride in the way that they have worked. They have pride in what they are doing. We try to develop the players as much as we can, but a lot of it must come from the players within themselves.”

At the quarter-final stage Tipperary beat Limerick 2-18 to 2-11 and then Cork in a high-scoring semi-final 5-19 to 2-13. Both games, however, featured lapses in concentration and significant dips in performance.

“We discussed that,” Ken Hogan added.

“In both games we had lapses (of concentration), but if we have lapses like that against a team with the quality of Clare we would pay dearly for it. All those little things that we needed to work on we have worked on.

“This is it now - no holds barred. It’s time to go at it and see what we can bring to the game.”

Admission to the game is by cash at stiles - €15 for adults, €10 for students/OAP’s and under-16s are free of charge. Both stands will be open and patrons are asked to be at the ground in plenty of time to ensure entry before the throw in. Seating is unreserved.

Tipperary: Darragh Mooney (Éire Óg Annacarty), Cathal Barrett (Holycross-Ballycahill), Michael Breen (Ballina), Andrew Ryan (Toomevara), Joe O’Dwyer (Killenaule), Tomás Hamill (Killea), Seamus Kennedy (St Mary’s Clonmel), Justin Cahill (Kilruane MacDonagh’s), Brian Stapleton (Templederry Kenyons), Tommy Heffernan (Nenagh Éire Óg), Jason Forde (Silvermines), Niall O’Meara (Kilruane MacDonagh’s, captain), Aidan McCormack (Thurles Sarsfields), Bill Walsh (Carrick Swan), Liam McGrath (Loughmore-Castleiney).

Clareman

Clare update from Facebook

Clare under 21 management have made 1 change in personnel to their side for tomorrow nights Munster final against Tipperary in Semple Stadium.

Eire Og's Davy O'Halloran comes in at corner forward in place of Daire Keane.

There are also 2 positional switches, Aaron Cunningham moves to full forward and Shane O'Donnell to the right wing.

Clare Joint manager Gerry O'Connor says his side look forward to the challenge in Thurles:

Meanwhile,

The Tipperary team to face Clare is unchanged .

Premier boss Ken Hogan has held faith with the starting 15 that overcame Cork in the semi final.

Fireball07

I dunno if Clare are actually a better team on paper, just because they have more players at senior level doesn't actually mean they are better.


The likes of Breen, Hamill, Cahill, O'Meara, Forde, Walsh are all top players, and are likely to play senior in the future.

Thinkstoomuch

Fireball07 wrote: »

I dunno if Clare are actually a better team on paper, just because they have more players at senior level doesn't actually mean they are better.


The likes of Breen, Hamill, Cahill, O'Meara, Forde, Walsh are all top players, and are likely to play senior in the future.

Thats a very good tipp team alright.I hope tonight is a classic.This has been their only focus compared to clare.

Tippereary will go for a good start like they got in their last two games.

Akrasia

its very scrappy so far. a lot of silly frees. the ref is gonna wear out his whistle.

Red Crow

Referee is rubbish. He blew his whistle there after he fell.

Mountainlad

Hate to be really going on about it, but the ref is annoying me with the amount of frees he's blowing for. Should be a bout 5 minutes added time, but knowing the GAA there'll be one.

doz

Poor game in truth, scrappy and littered with frees. Clare may regret not being further ahead if Tipp get going as they simply haven't turned up thus far.

marco_polo

Jesus that was a terrible call by the umpire

Martin567

marco_polo wrote: »

Jesus that was a terrible call by the umpire

It was two feet inside the post. I have no idea what Tipp were arguing about. Umpires have made terrible decisions recently but not this one.

Fireball07

Don't know what's wrong with Tipp, simply haven't shown up at all. Haven't scored from play yet? Really haven't got into the game at all.


And Clare haven't been that great, their backs have been well on top, but they've been sloppy and have been messing around a bit too much. The goal was well-taken but I don't know what the keeper was doing. It's given them a bit of a cushion but Tipp are still within touching distance if they decide to play.

Seadhna Morey is very lucky to still be on the field imo, whatever about Pat Horgan's one, that one was a straight slap down on the top of the helmet, nowhere near the ball.

marco_polo

Martin567 wrote: »

It was two feet inside the post. I have no idea what Tipp were arguing about. Umpires have made terrible decisions recently but not this one.

Was it? I could have swore it was outside even on the replay. I'll take your word for it though and make an appointment with specsavers

Mountainlad

Fireball07 wrote: »

Don't know what's wrong with Tipp, simply haven't shown up at all. Haven't scored from play yet? Really haven't got into the game at all.


And Clare haven't been that great, their backs have been well on top, but they've been sloppy and have been messing around a bit too much. The goal was well-taken but I don't know what the keeper was doing. It's given them a bit of a cushion but Tipp are still within touching distance if they decide to play.

Seadhna Morey is very lucky to still be on the field imo, whatever about Pat Horgan's one, that one was a straight slap down on the top of the helmet, nowhere near the ball.

Ah I dunno, he caught him on the downswing which suggests it was unintentional to me. Like hurley was horizontal, its like striking a ball and hitting a man with the follow through. Think it would seem more deliberate to me if the hurley was vertical, was just a case of mistiming it I think anyway.

Just showed the replay the point was wide. But Hogan would want to get over himself, Tipp are luck to only be 6 behind.

Alpha Dog 1

Tipp struggling big time with a lack of pace in defense.
Forwards like the senior team are clueless and using the old hit and hope tactics.

Will take some individual brilliance to win this one for Tipp.

Very much individuals against a team.

Alpha Dog 1

Martin567 wrote: »

It was two feet inside the post. I have no idea what Tipp were arguing about. Umpires have made terrible decisions recently but not this one.

The ball was clearly a point.

marco_polo

Yipee I've got my sight back

Kristopherus

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

The ball was clearly wide.

You must have been looking at it with Blue & Gold glasses.:D:D:D Clearly a point.

Mountainlad

Kristopherus wrote: »

You must have been looking at it with Blue & Gold glasses.:D:D:D Clearly a point.

I'm from Waterford, Pat Fleury is from Offaly and Micheal O Domhnaill is from Galway and we all say it was wide.