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Solar Install; the on-going saga
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So I left the motor alone long enough to get some fridge data.
Average temp 20°C night,
25°C > 29°C Day
DSC = days since (100%) Charged.
I ran the test on a live system.
All batteries were fully charged to specific gravity 1.275 (4 years old and testing as new
...didja hear that li-ion fanciers?! 
)
Float current = + 0.1A
Running (parasitic) Load = 0.15A
(0.1 + 0.15) x 24hours = 6Ah system self-consumption.
19.3Ah - 6Ah = 13.3Ah per day to run my fridge (and condensor fans) in August
Moral of the story, get rid of those stoopid absorption lemons and insulate yer fridges.
There's no excuse for cooling beers with dino-juice!0 -
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I'm not a proponent of inverters in installations you can touch opposite walls simultaneously. However they have their uses.
This is a proper job inverter!
This is not the story of a proper job inverter. This is a story about fit to task inverters....
Behold the world's only (that I know of) low frequency solid state true sine inverter.
220Vac 50hz 300VA (600VA Surge - 15 mins)
with auto-sleep load detection
Editable LVD & HVD thresholds (not easy)
I like low frequency inverters because you can neutalise them and then use earth leakage protective switchgear, this to my understanding is safer than the other muck switched earth or CTE high frequency flimsy el-cheapos...
Wellrr the SureSine's sure stable.
You can tell a good inverter by the resolution of the peaks.
Suresine (no load)
Studer (no load)
>10yo design I might add...newer is not better!0 -
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Why do I want an inverter?
Well obviously I got it second-hand, half price & ....
It's for the neighbours....I don't need one, but I don't like listening to gensets more.
I've installed a 16A 230Vac socket beside the jump leads I've never used to start my own vehicle and the flex fits nicely under the door gap so I don't have to worry about adding a switch and mounting it externally.
All onboard 13A sockets with the exception of those serving the fridge mains outlet and battery charger are on an automatic changeover.
My motor's now a 300VA double conversion UPS. :cool:
I soldered/crimped a bodge wire to neutralise the inverter internally (black probe shown here on phase...same reading on neutral when unpowered)
This enables the correct operation of earth leakage protective devices.
How many other inverter manufacturers recommend a PE conductor ≥ the gauge of the DC cables?
If they don't they are missguided!
I added a remote switch because I prefer this to enabling auto-sleep. I like things to stay off when they are off.
Here's the distortion @ full load (4" angle grinder under load one hand, camera in thuther)0 -
This is the unit it is replacing.
It's a 600VA MSW trinket I got in Maplins back in the day and have given it light duty service powering a boat anchor while underway and not much else.
Once upon a time I took a disliking to the LVD Buzzer and removed it with extreme prejudice.
That's some top of the class modification alright...:rolleyes:
Sine is not the correct term at all.
Here's my test rig. I'm using the 24-ish volt isolation transformer in my soldering iron station, that I terminated to panel mount BNC, as an isolated 10X reduced O-scope probe.
Waste not, want not...I built a Mobile 600VA Unit with it for well..you name it...it ain't fancy but tis better than burnin' dinosaurs.
600VA Inverting Square Wave
230Vac 50hz, 1.5kVA Surge- 2 x USB Outlets (2.1A Combined)
- 3 x 13A Outlets
- 12Vdc WW LED Strip switched panel light (redundancy)
- 2 x GU10 7W LED luminaires
- Voltmeter
- 2 x Switched Inline 10A connectors (for ancilliary lighting)
- 100A ANL Fuse with see-through holder.
- Janky Croc Clips in flexible Conduit.
- 7W Solar Panel Superseal Connector (offset voltmeter)
- CTE, Double Insulated (except for inverter casing).
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MSW backed up by 60-ish Ah starting battery.
First up. 2kW Grinder.
The impossible task.
Starts, Brown Outs, OLP reset.
No Surprise...
Next!
710W 20yo Bosch Angle Grinder
Brushed Motor
Runs grand.
Hits OverLoad Protection when tool is duressed.
Peak Load.
710W RipSaw (more like 450W under load :rolleyes:)
Works ok.
Have you noticed yet; it's more common for manufacturers to lie about ratings than not?0 -
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Can a 300VA from a reputable manufacturer hold a candle to a generic low quality 600VA? :pac:
In terms of electical safety low frequency is hands down winner, as far as I understand.
Oh but, but, but high frequency has lower surge capability and it's light-weight...:rolleyes:
Following readings: Meter zero-d out 50W running load (lighting, O-Scope & inverter self-consumption)
2kW grinder?
...instant OLP
No Bosch, no how. Instant OLP
OLP if duressed...she'll cut mustard with patience.
Jigsaw?
Too easy!...0 -
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Huzzah! Another meter!
I've been sitting on this since September.
Mostly because it's self-calibrating and I wanted to give it a chance to prove itself.
The verdict? It's pretty good. Easy install, self-calibrating.
Accuracy...hehe
Voltmeter: dead nuts on.
SOC: It's conservative, but it's only ever 0 > 10% below reality.
It dives from 100% SOC to 90% SOC, overshoots on discharge and holds low until it syncs and starts tracking again.
The TriMetric is still on the money moreso than any other but that did take me a year to calibrate. I calibrated the BMV to the TriMetric but I only use it as a volt-ammeter for all the previously stated grievances.
It has programmable relays but I don't use them and an alarm feature I've set the low to 11.8V so it disappears and won't talk to me when I abuse my battery (display turns off to save energy).
I bought it used and reset it on commissioning, after the 4 months it's generally only reading ~5% low of actual up from 10% on install.
So mostly it's reaffirmed that my TriMetric is the best you can do and my cal is pretty darn good.
Having said that for most people that don't wire their shunts properly (soldered sense terminals, twisted pair, zero disparity between sense conductors, realistic capacity assessment (-10%) and efficiency (99% @ < 95% SOC, 50 - 60% to 100% SOC).
I'd probably recommend it for the non-power users.
I now have a very informative combinational cluster.
(infering 44W going to running loads)
All of which I can read without leaving my seat :cool:
Didja hear that Schlictron, Studer, ApprenticeVolt, Xantrex, BEP?...it's a great feature I think...having a monitor you can monitor without glasses...simple inexpensive thing to do, yet most > €150 offerings on the market don't seem to think so..:rolleyes:
In other news my MorningStar Controller meter is tuned. :mad:
It's programmed to lie in certain ocassions (not uncommon...you know like battery chargers that tell you your battery is charged because they don't fancy finishing the job, I've a great example of this on the way Victron).
As soon as it drops below 12.0v it adopts a 100mV under-reading.
This is not the first time I've seen this craic from MS either...
Oh well small price to pay for the greatest charge controllers on the planet.
In any case I documented the SOC readings over a course of a week with large cycle depth, high current fast charging, extended microcycling and inclement weather (cold temp derating) and here are the results.
(Attached pdf has written values, worth a look for anyone still thinking a voltmeter is good enough)
You can take it that the Trimetric is correct, I verified it with measured replaced energy.
Another take away I find hilarious is this extract from SmartGauge FAQ:Gibbo, SmartGauge wrote:Why doesn't SmartGauge ever reach 100% charge status?
This is a very common problem. And the answer is very simple. It isn't SmartGauge that is at fault. It is the charging system. SmartGauge isn't reaching 100% charge status because your batteries aren't reaching 100% charge status. The solution is to sort out your charging system.
As you can see below The Smartgauge reads 100% charged when my battery is 85% Charged....:pac:......outtov 120%..:eek:
Just how bad are standard systems (rhetorical Q..)
Anna nuther thing Gibbo...Gibbo, RE: Ah counters wrote:However, they are useless for the purpose of monitoring the state of charge of batteries and a SmartGauge does a far better job, more reliably and is simpler to understand.
Not true..or yer talking through yer hat!
It all depends on the installer.
And of course if your AH counter reads >100% charged (only TriMetric does of all the meters in all the planet) then you can compensate imperically per cycle..
Having said that after a week, any inaccuracies in your Ah counter setup will have compounded to a rather large discrepancy where the Smartgauge will not suffer from this. ...it'll only be a consistent ~5% too low instead..
If it does sync up even better in the coming months I will update.0 -
Yes, you need them. No, internal or controller mounted ones are not good enough!
Any manufacturer who says otherwise is a charlatan!
Especially those who only take a one time reading before the charger/charge controller heats them up making them bloomin' redundant...
Ctek, Victron, Steca....
...to name but a few
14°C disparity. Would ya like the charge profile that's correct for your battery type or the one that's 400mV too low?0 -
Running the fridge is easy peasy...falling asleep with the laptop on all night...well that's a challenge.
My lecky fridge uses 2% the energy my lemon did. I'm on my second gas bottle since I installed it. €75 saved so far and probably another €100 in unspoilt food. :cool:
I got me one of these to put to the test...
£50 Spares, repairs: Reported Fault; never finishes charging.
Rumour has it it's not a great unit compared to a simple cable upgrade.
I've asked politely for data from the Sterling and they have declined to produce any. Engineering Company you say?!?
Can it beat my Albright magnetic latching contactor over 35mm²?
Producing:
I lashed together a test rig...
Low and behold..
Now why you would want a battery to battery charger to float I don't know because it takes days to charge a FLA battery and I usually don't drive that long.
Not to worry though it does float prematurely just like the rest of the market offerings for peace of mind.0 -
Okay, as you follow please keep in mind this is a £500 unit RRP.
I'm really struggling to see where the money went...must be all the Youtube promotional videoing and editing..:rolleyes:
Build quality is low...as you can get I suppose...she's not here for long time.
As I received the unit one of the El Cheapo, super noisy fans had sheared a conductor leaving one heat sink passively cooled.
Thuther failed in my hand as I prodded it.
The manual does state if the fan dies just replace it...
...what they didn't mention is in the 120A unit you need to do a visual inspection because there's two fans so you won't hear it when the first one cr@ps out.
nor do they advise you do it promptly before the heat saturation breaks down the insulation on the main ~130A power input.
This unit came with a pre-installed rattle from the factory so I was forced to cut my way in there to investigate. Turned out to be a piece of loose E-poxy.
As you can see from the photo profit margins are too slim to use quality industry recognised assembly materials. No silastic...hot snot instead. No loctite....super glued FETs, generic off-brand relay.
TK Electrolytics, reputably bad, renown for failures.
I put the insulation on the toasted conductor. Automotive loom tape, HT, petrochemical resistant, water shedding..great stuff 'tis.
While the caps were hot glued together I can't say they did it very well.
Every application this device has is hi-vibration.
Zero cable stress relief....hope yer crimps don't fail....it's only 120A, don't be a moaning Mary...0 -
What the eff is this?
Unit Main Ground.
It's a 50A Maxi Blade fuse on the ground on 4mm² cable?
That's 40A cable!...okay 105°C rated er...ah I'll give ya 60A on a cold morning.
Whadya using it as a potential divider onna common grounded system? It's just ...not.... sigh!...
A final look at the krust. Marvel at the high current capable plumber style soldered brass studs and lugs
(and yer ProNautic ProCharge Ultra...is just as lacking...least it was back in 2015 :rolleyes:...it was the best performing off the shelf charger I've seen ever though....that one time I used it...factory refurbed unit...ie. resurrected)
Hey look Charles...this is what cable stress relief looks like...for the suggestion box like...I ferruled yer janky fans too!
The black aluminum tape is a duct for cooling. I tossed the lid so I wasn't promoting the product and also to save a few mm for shoe-horning into the lecky dept.0 -
In keeping with the spirit of the design engineering, I decided the most appropriate installation, considering all the mounting options, was to just throw it on the floor. That way when if fails I can remove it quickly and easily for servicing or binning. It's already waterproof and I won't get upset after drilling mounting or access holes that'll be redundant soon as it does fail.
I opted for the ignition +12V switched control method so I can do a direct and instantaneous comparison of it's boost over my Albright and it really wasn't worth tapping the auto-electrics for.
I'm expecting a ~10A increase across the SOC range, if I get it I reckon that'll be £500 well spent!0 -
Sir Liamalot wrote: »
I'm expecting a ~10A increase across the SOC range, if I get it I reckon that'll be £500 well spent!
Looks like an ejector seat switch.0 -
Looks like an ejector seat switch.
Let's hope not. If it does descend into a conflagration I'll let yee know.
Ever try destructively testing 150A fuses? They do a fair bittov destruction before the rupture!
When you get to programming any Ah counter I know of there's a very major oversight in that they're set to sync to a the tail current and absorption voltage of the system charger.
Who's to say the charger is competent except the manufacturer? :rolleyes:
The specific gravity I would say!
Now I've tested my Schlictron charger to my satisfaction to ascertain that it says done at SG 1.26p/c
I'm testing a Ctek against my EcoPulse and so far I've determined that the EcoPulse can take an eight year old highly abused heavily neglected battery to 1.275 albeit it after a month of persistance and moderately heavy water usage (set to 14.8V + temp. comp. absorption).
The experiment has been curtailed because the test subject has been commandeered for subjugation to further abuse and neglect so Ctek hasn't had a proper chance to swing the bat at it. However it's still serviceable with reduced capacity.
Trying to get this all in one shot is a little unclear.
Suffice to say I'm running a Victron alleged charger concurrently with a MorningStar EcoPulse proper job.
The two main reasons for this is I want the Schlictron to load compensate for my 12V Manshed Supply and it's fully sealed so my penchant for angle grinding won't upset it....not that I'd really lament it's demise anywhoo.
Meanwhile I want the EcoPulse to actually charge my battery and protect my 1125Ah AGM investment.
Here's a typical scenario what happens most days.
As you can see the Schlictron is resting assured it has completed the task of charging to it's satisfaction and is in a low float (storage), load compensation state @ 13.2V.
It's advertised as a 15A charger but I've derated it accordingly. It will push 15A for about 3 seconds then it throttles down to 12.5A to protect itself from internal heat.
Meanwhile my MorningStar is pushing bulk (not absorption) as hard as it can given limited input from a 110Wp Solar panel on a grey Winter's day.
MorningStar products conversely can push 100% duty 100% of the time.
80% SOC you say EcoPulse....well how would you know the truth with a sealed battery.
Schlicktron are not the only company that make better pdf presentations than power electronics...I just like to pick on them because their pricepoint, ubiquity and marketing seem to inspire some sortov brand confidence.
Much like Pewter Power Products' & Apprenticevolt's reassuringly expensive marketing strategy.0 -
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Much as I give out about the major players being pants I don't even waste my breath on Zig, Calira, Schaudt, ArSilicii, Reich, Nordelettronica, Sargent, Toptron and that ilk are complete lemons and actually harmful not just negligent.
They don't claim to be better than they are so I don't antagonise them so much. But they are ridiculously overpriced lemons.
I suppose the tank level sensors and appliance wiring can stay. You'd be doing yerself a favour to skip any stock chargers, meters, charge conductors, split charge relays etc...
You should see the boxes of stuff I have that didn't make the cut, and they're head and shoulders better than factory fitment any day.
If you really insisted on keeping them I'd advise disconnecting anything charge or metering related.
The simple reason being that a split charge cable protected by a 20A fuse that never blows with a 10A downstream fridge ought to raise an eyebrow and those charge indicators are worse than useless because orange means your battery is shagged/getting damaged and red means extinct.
For an off the shelf friendly setup I'd say.
Battery Monitor(s)
Trimetric (depending on whether an ammeter/wattmeter is worth an extra €100 for you), 5 wire install
or Smartgauge; 3 wire install
if you have to cheap out then this voltmeter is not the worst.
Battery
Halfords batteries 2 x 12v. They're nowhere near as good as golf cart batteries but the no quibble warranty can't be beat.
Cable Upgrade
10mm² > 35mm² Alternator or Starter Battery to Service Battery (via split charge)
Split Charge Contactor
Albright SW80
If the vehicle has a regen braking alternator then a Redarc BCDC1250D Battery to Battery Charger
maybe a Ctek job if you want a 16A ish yolk (derates with heat)
Fuses
As much as practically possible have only one fuse type onboard I'd recommend blade fuses and carry spares. Install a fuseblock (with a ground bus) with at least 4 more than you need (at the time of installation) at your distribution area, a master catastrophic ~100A fuse at the battery (AKA poor man's isolator) + cable tie a spare to it.
Add a 4 way sense fuse block here too.
Mains Charger
I'm gonna say Ctek ≥7A for now but reserve the right to rescind the recommendation pending completion of my current unit under test.
Or a ProNautic......it's the Unit Sterling copied but with cheaper gubbins for their ProCharge Ultra 10A or 20A
Inverter
A used Yellow Xantrex 1kVA, what pop up on Ebay all the time from NHS ambulances.
Or a MorningStar Suresine
Or a small Studer
Solar panel
≥ 80W Rigid Frame, Monocrystalline Vmp ≥ 16V
flexible panels derate in heat faster, cost twice as much and only last about 3-7 years.
Solar Panel Controller
Sunsaver Duo 25A PWM (I have one for sale, pm for details, can ship with custom profile of your choice preloaded)
Or a ProStar with onboard meter.
Compressor Fridge
Or the Redarc Manager 30 if you want it all in one box.
Sizing:
Battery to last 1 week at minimun standard discharge rate.
Solar panel 100W per 25Ah daily demand
Alternator power as much as she'll suffer (if you water them)... 20A (if you won't)
Mains Charger: max load compensation capable with 5% > 30% battery capacity overhead.0 -
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Sir Liamalot wrote: »I reckon my 100A Alt to B2 Maxi Blade fuse will hold....
If it doesn't I'll see alternator voltage disappear from B2Sense before I unload B1.
....so that happened...
:rolleyes:
Dash battery light came on and I had the dawning realisation that a flick of a switch would result in another tindernator...
See these janky underwired maxi-wossit holders you get in motor factors....
get them, find a tool like a channel locks before install, take the fuse out and give the lucars a good squeeze....the up to 100A fuse you then insert afterwards ought to not rattle or be easy to remove...
A better solution is splash out on a proper piece of high current DC protective switchgear with screw terminals...
Wiring circuits live...
....don't!0 -
..let me take you back to a time in my youth, the time I was wiring a live circuit...semi-live, and blew up a 120A battery to battery charger...oh I remember it like twas thuther day...
No solace was found in the thought; I, such an expert in my field, has learned to identify the distinguishable difference in smell between plasma and fried semi-conductor...
As I was inserting my B2B lovingly on the floor,
forever more,
with a live input 12v,
a floating ground (not connected),
didn't I spot weld my shunt with the B1 output,
ina fearsome conductor wrangle...
..convince I did I "ya can't smell magic smoke from an IP68 appliance,
sher twas just probably plasma!"
...crack on I did I..
...but while lights indicated
current wasn't moving
...no charger can be this bad
Well're there's nay'er fer it but sniff autopsy...
And low..
Fet 11 stood; a pool his own entrails...
left this world so violent
his buddy beside,
poor blighter,
is plastered,
in his gubbins,
galore!
...sigh..0 -
97A FET...woo-wee...yurp 700A instantaneous ought do it....:rolleyes:
I best get a bag....
An throw in another bag of these please..
The Meastro looks fit...
Hopefully, the trace survived too..
TBC...
...I may have contaminated the field test results....:o
Don't wire circuits live kids!0 -
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