Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Superthread 2013

fergiesfolly

Sirsok wrote: »

Is united much of am allure for top players that have never played in england? With the exception of a slight few veron barthez can united compete with the big mainland europe teams? The likes of rvp and berba all played in england before joinin so i'm sure they could understand and appreciate how big united are domestically but in countries such as germany spain italy are we seen as such a major force? Ronaldinho ozil benzema Snjieder lucas hazard were all top talents we were in for , allegedly, who decided on other clubs. . . Just the whole thiago thing has annoyed me as i just dont think he grasps how big it is to play for us. . .

Its not like he picked some half arsed team over us.
Or do YOU not realize how big it is to play for Bayern Munich?

Red Crow

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Miguel Delaney, Graham Hunter or a friend/uncle saying so apparently.

lol so true. Journalists are only really told what the agents want them to hear.

I think Hunter has some information but the rest are full of rubbish. Delaney jumps on the bandwagon with every story.

How Soon Is Now

See the problem is i really dont think where able to lure in major talent from outside of the English league these days without offering major money all round.

The state of football now means that the young up and coming stars or sometimes established great players are gonna go for the big big money deals which where not in a position to deal with.

This is going to continue and more then likely only get worse as long as the likes of City PSG and now Monaco continue to appear.

I just think its embarrassing more then anything at this stage. I hate the fact as a United fan where one of the biggest clubs in the world yet lets face it the really big names around Europe wont come near us unless they have it set in there mind they want to be a Manchester United player. Its ****ing crazy because we should be able to attract any player anywhere at the level that we are but because of money in the game these days we cant and in most cases we wont.

I really think our best chances at signing top players is if there already playing in the premier league if we catch them before the hype starts or there United fans from day one with nothing but paying football for a top club on there mind.

Other then that everytime where linked with a big player Thiago the latest example it almost gets to the stage where i am waiting for the moment when it turns out some other club came in and offered more money or a deal that suited the players agent better.

kippy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

no doubt what your saying is true, but the midfield problem is bigger and them some.

history and logic will show that if we sign other defenders, then the money simply wont be there to sign the quality we need in midfield. i cant see why people keep expecting us to spend spend spend.

lets not forget that Zaha has already signed, Baines would cost £15million and if we were to sign garay it would take potential spending to around £50million.

can you honestly see us having money to bring in the world class CM we need? i doubt it somehow.

It's not JUST about the money though, is it?
You don't get that do you?

How many "world" class central midfielders (and I wouldnt count Tiago in that bracket btw) would you expect to want to come to a sh1tty city like Manchester?
(Assuming the megabucks of City weren't as big a deal for the player)

kippy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we will sign a CM, i guarantee you that. the problem is, will it be enough?

Who fcuking knows?

United could sign, Schwensteiger, Thiago and Fabregas and it might not work out for many reasons.

They could sign an almost unknown teenage winger for 12 million, who will be berated by the fans for 2 years while he adjusts, then turn out to be one of the best players in the world afterwards.

Who knows?


It's not an exact science........

homerjay2005

kippy wrote: »

It's not JUST about the money though, is it?
You don't get that do you?

not sure what you mean, if we dont have money, we cant sign players.

how is that not clear to you?

kippy wrote: »

They could sign an almost unknown teenage winger for 12 million, who will be berated by the fans for 2 years while he adjusts, then turn out to be one of the best players in the world afterwards.

Who knows?


It's not an exact science........

ah come off it, proven players will do the business if the match up is right for them and the club. look at RVP for example.

or away from United - look at Bayern. already the best team in europe, they then go out and sign Martinez. then then go and sign Thiago. thats the standard we need.

if we went out and signed a player like Martinez or Thiago, we would win the league next year...i have no doubt about that.

kippy

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Its not like he picked some half arsed team over us.
Or do YOU not realize how big it is to play for Bayern Munich?

Exactly.
Almost every person on here is a United fan, obviously its big for them to play for united.
Others may not give a fcuk. Who knows.
Munich are currently the best team in Europe, have a beastly squad, plenty cash, big stadium, will prob dominate in germany and oh yeah, happen to have one of the best managers around (a former manager of said player)

kippy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

not sure what you mean, if we dont have money, we cant sign players.

how is that not clear to you?

the JUST bit was as important as anything else in that sentence, I thought capitalising it may have helped to hammer that home.

See many transfers of the past as examples of that, most recently RVP.

Mikeyt086

Headshot

I dont blame him for picking Bayern, you look at both clubs and its not a hard decision why he picked Bayern

tinofapples

So Thiago is gone elsewhere, who is a realistic midfield target that would have an immediate impact next season. Fellaini ? Surely United are in pole position if we are genuinely interested, given the Moyes factor ala Pep & Thiago ?? Is Modric available in similar fashion as Sneijder and Van Der Vaart were when Real realised they wanted more changes ? Would Modric please ye ?

Quandary

On th whole thiago thing - as far as I'm concerned as long as Utd did everything possible to sign him then I'm just disappointed he chose Bayern. But, if it was a case of Utd trying to penny pinch over the alleged tax thing then I would be utterly disgusted. A player of Thiagos age abd ability at less than 25m is an opportunity that rarely presents itself.

Also, the fact that pep is willing to bring in Thiago into that top class Bayern midfield and give him the game time he wants just goes to show how incredible a player he is becoming.

I'm more disappointed about this deal falling through than any other

homerjay2005

Quandary wrote: »

But, if it was a case of Utd trying to penny pinch over the alleged tax thing then I would be utterly disgusted.

i asked this a couple of days ago, but got no answers.

surely THIS is tabloid nonsense? if this is true (which i dont believe) and played part in him not signing for us, the entire board should be sacked.

i guess we will never know now unless the player himself says something like "United just didnt show they wanted me enough".

but in all seriousness, it cannot be true.

DM_7

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Bebe was an abnormality, but I don't get what your problem with Jones and Young, and 15m for Baines, are. That's how much young/decent English players cost, especially to clubs like United. We have to buy English players, we don't have a choice there. And they were, at the time, great potential talents, so of course were going to demand higher fees. How much do you think Young and Jones should have gone for? And keep it relative to similiar talents going to similiar size clubs.

Bayern get praise for spending the money it takes to get the players they want, especially the players playing in Germany. Apparently United should do that as well.

once its not one of the best young defenders in the league or and one of the top 5 wingers in the league and cetainly not the best attacking left back in the league.

tinofapples

Quandary wrote: »

On th whole thiago thing - as far as I'm concerned as long as Utd did everything possible to sign him then I'm just disappointed he chose Bayern. But, if it was a case of Utd trying to penny pinch over the alleged tax thing then I would be uttered disgusted. A player of Thiagos age abd ability at less than 25m is an opportunity that rarely presents itself.

Also, the fact that pep is willing to bring in Thiago into that top class Bayern midfield and give him the game time he wants just goes to show how incredible a player he is becoming.

I'm more disappointed about this deal falling through than any other

You might not be more disappointed bout this one bud, it's just that it's the latest one and thus the freshest in your mind !!

besty

Anything to be said for another...Modric?

Headshot

If we had a proven manager like Pep at the club im convinced we would of gotten Thiago and possibly easier to get other players

Will I Amnt

Headshot wrote: »

If we had a proven manager like Pep at the club im convinced we would of gotten Thiago and possibly easier to get other players

I'd say if we had Pep. Not someone like him.

kippy

Headshot wrote: »

If we had a proven manager like Pep at the club im convinced we would of gotten Thiago and possibly easier to get other players

Most likely would have gotten Thiago, yeah. I suspect his relationship with Pep was a major factor but again who knows.

But you don't have a proven manager at the club.
Thems the breaks.

homerjay2005

StarshipPooper wrote: »

And all it took was north of a billion quid of outside investment. The likes of City, Chelsea, Barca, Real and PSG do not operate in the same reality as us. If Utd attempted to copy their wage structure and transfer policy the club would go bankrupt.

we turnover £300+ million a year and are making record profits. the club could float another 10% tomorrow and raise £60-70million in the space of a few days but they dont even need to

how on earth would signing one or two marquee players a year, bankrupt the club?

Headshot

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I'd say if we had Pep. Not someone like him.

idk Klopp would get alot of players excited to work with him

kippy wrote: »

Most likely would have gotten Thiago, yeah. I suspect his relationship with Pep was a major factor but again who knows.

But you don't have a proven manager at the club.
Thems the breaks.

you look at both clubs and Bayern have a proven winner and what do utd have? I hate to be harsh but we have a manager who has done **** all (sorry for being blunt too). Didnt RVP say somthing along the lines of wanting to work with saf. A proven manager goes along way in helping players to decide I think

Timmyctc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we turnover £300+ million a year and are making record profits. the club could float another 10% tomorrow and raise £60-70million in the space of a few days but they dont even need to

how on earth would signing one or two marquee players a year, bankrupt the club?

I dont understand how you're saying we have all this money but at the same time saying spending 15m on a defender would mean we wont be able to make many marquee signings?

homerjay2005

Headshot wrote: »

If we had a proven manager like Pep at the club im convinced we would of gotten Thiago and possibly easier to get other players

hmmm, dont think this has anything to do with Moyes. we have struggled for years even under Fergie to close deals.

same thing would have happened if Fergie was there.

homerjay2005

Timmyctc wrote: »

I dont understand how you're saying we have all this money but at the same time saying spending 15m on a defender would mean we wont be able to make many marquee signings?

ive already clearly explained this.

kippy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we turnover £300+ million a year and are making record profits. the club could float another 10% tomorrow and raise £60-70million in the space of a few days but they dont even need to

how on earth would signing one or two marquee players a year, bankrupt the club?

1. The knock on effect on the wagebill and the wages of other players.
2. The possibilty of these Marquee players not actually being as effective as their price tag/wages would justify, and the knock on effect this would have on the squad, finishing positions, etc etc.
3. Outside of finances, the availability of said players.
4. Outside of finances, the motivation and reasoning behind players said desire to play for united.

2 Marquee players a year = 10 in 5 years, you dont think that would have a major impact on finances, especially if they dont work out.

Personally, I'd rather see United spend on youth, take the chances, develop the players, purchase players who want to play there.

But there are plenty fans out there, not specificilly on here, who don't tend to want to give anyone the time to develop and assume a 40 million pound player is by default and answer to all problems.

Timmyctc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ive already clearly explained this.

you said earlier that

can you honestly see us having money to bring in the world class CM we need? i doubt it somehow.

but also that we could raise 70m in a couple of days?
EDIT: Just to clarify this above point was RE: initially spending on Defenders rather than CMs yeah?

Lord TSC

DM-ICE wrote: »

Bayern get praise for spending the money it takes to get the players they want, especially the players playing in Germany. Apparently United should do that as well.

once its not one of the best young defenders in the league or and one of the top 5 wingers in the league and cetainly not the best attacking left back in the league.

There's a lot of contradictions in recent times in here.

Twitter isn't to be trusted...until it says something negative, in which case its the bible.

United should be keeping transfer dealings quite so others don't nip in and steal them....but at the same time, communicating all details on every inquiry to the public.

United can't afford 15m on a defender because it will stop us buying a midfielder...but we could sign two or more marquee signings no problem cause we have plenty of money.

kippy

Headshot wrote: »

idk Klopp would get alot of players excited to work with him



you look at both clubs and Bayern have a proven winner and what do utd have? I hate to be harsh but we have a manager who has done **** all (sorry for being blunt too). Didnt RVP say somthing along the lines of wanting to work with saf. A proven manager goes along way in helping players to decide I think

Thiago worked with Pep in the past, thats a major factor.
Bayern just won the cl, thats probably a major factor.
Who actually knows........
A "proven" manager doesn't always get what he wants.
See SAF for the past two+ decades.

homerjay2005

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

United can't afford 15m on a defender because it will stop us buying a midfielder...but we could sign two or more marquee signings no problem cause we have plenty of money.

you are completely twisting everything. have a read again and stop posting things that were not said.

to clarify for you, 17million spend on garay (plus Zaha and Baines) takes away our spending power to sign the world class player we need.

do you honestly disagree with that?

we can afford to spend 50-60 million a year..when that is already spend on players we dont need, then its not f*cking rocket science is it?

GSPfan

Jesus, lads. Chill out.

As was said its gas how other clubs get praised for getting the players they want at any price yet United are over paying. Ha ha. That is a bit mad when you think about it.

Will I Amnt

Headshot wrote: »

idk Klopp would get alot of players excited to work with him



you look at both clubs and Bayern have a proven winner and what do utd have? I hate to be harsh but we have a manager who has done **** all (sorry for being blunt too). Didnt RVP say somthing along the lines of wanting to work with saf. A proven manager goes along way in helping players to decide I think

I still think it would have made no difference given their previous involvement and his categoric statement of intent on signing him.

Just on your other point, I think people give too much attention to the role of manager where transfers are involved.
If Moyes were to take over Madrid could you really see them struggle to attract players. The club name itself is enough for most. There are of course exceptions.

homerjay2005

DM-ICE wrote: »

Bayern get praise for spending the money it takes to get the players they want, especially the players playing in Germany. Apparently United should do that as well.

once its not one of the best young defenders in the league or and one of the top 5 wingers in the league and cetainly not the best attacking left back in the league.

Bayern Munich would not sign Young, Jones or Baines.

DM_7

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Bayern Munich would not sign Young, Jones or Baines.

And Manchester United wouldn't have bougth Mandzukic, Dante or Mario Gomes.

kryogen

DM-ICE wrote: »

And Manchester United wouldn't have bougth Mandzukic, Dante or Mario Gomes.

Besides Gomez (who does have his good points) those are some pretty good players

Regarding the question of the club's ability to attract and sign top players from more exotic locales, I think something important is being overlooked;- Manchester unfortunately is a tip, especially when compared to London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona and my own personal favourite...Munich.

It is easy for us here (the majority of whom I imagine are not pro-footballers and/or not currently multi- millionaires) to say or think that 'For £X0,000 per week I would relocate to Chernobyl', or as MUFC supporters - "I'd play for Utd for less than the dole!', but apparently most of today's footballers would like to have their cake and eat it too, which is fine by me otherwise what is the point in having a cake in the first place??

But I'm not about to throw all toys from the pram, shíte on the clubs ambition, blame the new manager and write off our EPL chances just because a 22 year old who never kicked a ball in England decided to join up with his former mentor/friend/peer/agent's brother at the rising force in European football, in one of the world's most vibrant cities. Yes I would have loved if the club had landed him, he's a fantastic footballer, but we will solve those CM problems soon. Moyes himself has noted the area as being short on players, in the same interview he was quoted as saying he has no budget and can buy as he sees fit.

As long as Bale remains at Spurs, Ronaldo remains at Madrid without an improved contract, and the transfer window is still very much under halfway done, I will not go into meltdown mode just yet. Although it seems mental if it is the case that Utd didn't throw everything they had at Thiago to lure him to Manchester, especially with Moyes acutely aware that the CM area needs strengthening, time could show a method to such madness.

I strongly believe, unfortunately without Miguel Delaney or Graham Hunter to back me up, that by this time next month this thread will be a much happier place. If not, I won't be around here to find out:pac:

Lord TSC

homerjay2005 wrote: »

to clarify for you, 17million spend on garay (plus Zaha and Baines) takes away our spending power to sign the world class player we need.

do you honestly disagree with that?

I disagree on the grounds that you and I are ignorant on the matter of how much spending power it takes away from us.

If Moyes has the typical 50m, and whatever Rooney goes for, then he still has more than enough cash left to buy midfielders. That's also ignoring the fact he might, as a new manager, have bigger money than usual as a show of support, AND the fact all teams have more cash is summer due to TV rights. You are basing your entire argument on the belief that we don't have much money to spend. Me? I don't know. Hence I neither agree nor disagree. I simply am remaining patient until we see what's happening, rather than getting hyper over a plan I know nothing about.

Realistically though, who are these world class players we not only need but can get? Who is a realistic, world class signing that we can get without any competition from the bigger, more financially powerful teams? Who do you think United will miss out on for financial reasons?

Timmyctc

kryogen wrote: »

Besides Gomez (who does have his good points) those are some pretty good players

Besides Young ( who does have HIS good points) the players listed before are some pretty good players :P

adox

For those saying the city is a big negative against players deciding to move, while it may have a small amount of validity, City seem too have little trouble persuading top players to move to Manchester.

Don't under estimate the lure of money to a person, no matter how much they already have.

adox

adox wrote: »

For those saying the city is a big negative against players deciding to move, while it may have a small amount of validity, City seem too have little trouble persuading top players to move to Manchester.

Don't under estimate the lure of money to a person, no matter how much they already have.

Forgot to mention that in my post adox, there is Plan B, a.k.a. the 'City Plan'; where you throw that much money at a player that their own family won't even talk to them if they refuse!

I am proud to say that United are not that kind of club.

DM_7

kryogen wrote: »

Besides Gomez (who does have his good points) those are some pretty good players

That were playing in Germany, which was the point.

United bought players from English sides.

If Baines or Jones were playing in Germany for clubs Bayern would be all over them. If they needed a third winger and Young was playing for Hoffenhiem they would certainly have been going for him.

The league they were playing in was a big part of why United and Bayern bought those players.

adox

stankratz wrote: »

Forgot to mention that in my post adox, there is Plan B, a.k.a. the 'City Plan'; where you throw that much money at a player that their own family won't even talk to them if they refuse!

I am proud to say that United are not that kind of club.

Yeah but my point was that players will move to a club if they want to and the city it's in isn't as a big a deciding factor as is being made out on here IMO.

jebus84

im lost for words....what should I respond to my friend who says im naive to think utd were ever in for thiago and that im stupid for believing every thing I read?

adox

jebus84 wrote: »

im lost for words....what should I respond to my friend who says im naive to think utd were ever in for thiago and that im stupid for believing every thing I read?

Tell him to **** off.

kippy

adox wrote: »

Yeah but my point was that players will move to a club if they want to and the city it's in isn't as a big a deciding factor as is being made out on here IMO.

It's one of a multitude of factors. Most of which, some here either cannot fathom or dont want to comprehend.
Others are:
1. Money. This is much more complex than just the transfer fee and the wages. There's the image rights, the taxation situation, bonus', contractual tie ins, payments to agents, possible future increases, percentage of future transfer fees, accomodation etc etc.
2. Family. Does the player have family, is family even important to that player.
3. Language. Is it important to him - does he care to even learn a new one.
4. City/culture/weather/food. Varying degrees of importance. However Manchester is a sh1thole as a c1ty and the weather is usually not great. So that's not a great starting position and little the club can do about it.
5. The club itself, where they are at, where they are going, facilities, current staff and players, chance of silverware.......
6. Possibility of becoming a key player for the club, inhancing reputation etc etc
7. Perhaps any one of many more personal preferences that the player may have, who knows. Different players will have differing "rankings" on each of the above etc etc

But the city is starting from a **** position relative to London, Barcelona, Madrid, Munich, Paris etc etc

-This shouldnt have to be pointed out.

Rubber_Soul

jebus84 wrote: »

im lost for words....what should I respond to my friend who says im naive to think utd were ever in for thiago and that im stupid for believing every thing I read?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvllQl5t4Ww

How Soon Is Now

So no interest in Christian Eriksen then ?? Seeing as Liverpool seem to be in for him...

Rubber_Soul

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we turnover £300+ million a year and are making record profits. the club could float another 10% tomorrow and raise £60-70million in the space of a few days but they dont even need to

how on earth would signing one or two marquee players a year, bankrupt the club?

If transfer fees were the only variable then the club could easily afford it, they're not though. More competition for marquee players makes fees go up. More competition for those marquee players signature forces wages up. Obviously not going in to depth on the figures at midnight on Sunday but add another ~15-20 million to the wage bill every year on top of the 30-60 mil outlay in fees + everything else that goes along with signings and see how long those record profits last you.

Will I Amnt

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

So no interest in Christian Eriksen then ?? Seeing as Liverpool seem to be in for him...

Don't think he's as good as being made out imo. Not what we need anyway.
Also, Liverpool being in for him is no reason we should be. Their transfer policy is not one I'd be trying to emulate

wadacrack

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

So no interest in Christian Eriksen then ?? Seeing as Liverpool seem to be in for him...

We have Kagawa for that role

Whatsisname

I must be the only person who doesn't consider Manchester a ****hole, I think its a lovely city and I fell in love with it almost instantly?