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Tenant won't move after notice given

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    #92
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    djimi wrote: »
    I would love to see a legal interpretation of this. Its seems ridiculous to me that something that is seemingly so basic is such a grey area.

    There own't be a legal interpretation until someone brings a case in Court and a judge rules on it. What landlord is going to fund an expensive case to find out?
    At the moment that is what the adjudicators in the PRTB are saying.


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    #93
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    What is untrue? have you any back up for what you are saying?
    I have seen termination notices ruled as defective because they were issued during a fixed term lease. I don't agree with that interpretation of the Act but the o/p would be an idiot to assume that all is well. It will do a fat lot of good to
    losr an adjudication over this in 6 months time and then run the risk of an appeal with a potential costs order and no certainty of a favourable result.
    The RTA is a badly drafted piece of legislation and has led to ridiculous situations. A landlord has to be very careful to avoid being hit with expensive delays and costs.

    can you link any PRTB adjudications that have shown notice to be defective when served in the proper manner, with the proper timeframe to conclude after the finishing of a lease that have been determined defective by overholding tenants ?

    I've not seen one, and like you say yourself no legal challenge has been taken by either party. So unless you can like something to show otherwise it remains a grey area and your definitive answer is therefore untrue.


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    #94
    Chiorino
    Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Chiorino


    Thanks for all the advice to date folks. Just as an update, having sent the registered letter two weeks ago, I've had no reply from the tenants. They are supposed to be gone by the end of this week but I think its fairly obvious they won't be. What should be my next step?


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    #95
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Chiorino wrote: »
    What should be my next step?
    Send them "notice to quit"
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/local_authority_and_social_housing/notice_to_quit_and_eviction.html

    Then after the time expires, you then goto the court and get an eviction notice.


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    #96
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭whippet


    the_syco wrote: »
    Send them "notice to quit"
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/local_authority_and_social_housing/notice_to_quit_and_eviction.html

    Then after the time expires, you then goto the court and get an eviction notice.

    Incorrect ... the after the notice to quit expires the only legal course of action for the Landlord is to register a dispute with the PRTB for overholding.

    Subject to the determination order from the PRTB (which could take quite a while to get) .. then the Landlord can go down the court route.


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    #97
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    whippet wrote: »
    Incorrect ... the after the notice to quit expires the only legal course of action for the Landlord is to register a dispute with the PRTB for overholding.

    Subject to the determination order from the PRTB (which could take quite a while to get) .. then the Landlord can go down the court route.

    Its only overholding if they continue to pay rent. Are you sure they are ?

    If not there is zero need to go to the PRTB the PRTB are not an official step in the eviction process as far as Im aware and do not have to be engaged in a dispute before going to court.


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    #98
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭whippet


    D3PO wrote: »
    Its only overholding if they continue to pay rent. Are you sure they are ?

    If not there is zero need to go to the PRTB the PRTB are not an official step in the eviction process as far as Im aware and do not have to be engaged in a dispute before going to court.

    The PRTB is the only course of action unfortunately


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    #99
    Sugar Soap
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5 ✭Sugar Soap


    If they are not paying rent a notice of rent srrears has to be given. If the rent remains unpaid an application has to be made to the PRTB for an order for payment.


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    #100
    discodavie
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭discodavie


    Sugar Soap wrote: »
    If they are not paying rent a notice of rent srrears has to be given. If the rent remains unpaid an application has to be made to the PRTB for an order for payment.

    Rubbish.

    If they are not paying rent a 14 day rent arrears notice to be served followed by a 28 day notice if termination if the full amount owed has not been paid.

    If the tenant has been served a valid notice if termination and continues to stay in the dwelling illegally you must apply to the PRTB for resolution on the grounds of over holding.

    Overholding has nothing to do with rent being paid or not just a valid NOT.

    It is also one of the things you can request a priority hearing on.


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    #101
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    D3PO wrote: »
    Its only overholding if they continue to pay rent. Are you sure they are ?

    If not there is zero need to go to the PRTB the PRTB are not an official step in the eviction process as far as Im aware and do not have to be engaged in a dispute before going to court.

    I dont think the courts will listen to any tenancy related cases that havent been through the PRTB first.


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    #102
    discodavie
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭discodavie


    djimi wrote: »
    I dont think the courts will listen to any tenancy related cases that havent been through the PRTB first.

    Correct ,

    The PRTB is the only legal route unless costs are above 60K

    After determination order is sent if tenant continues to stay in the dwelling then you can take it to the district court and get a court order and engage a sheriff if you like but only AFTER going through the PRTB dispute resolution process.


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    #103
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    djimi wrote: »
    I dont think the courts will listen to any tenancy related cases that havent been through the PRTB first.

    wasn't sure this was the case. I still am not I must look into it more tbh.


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    #104
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    D3PO wrote: »
    wasn't sure this was the case. I still am not I must look into it more tbh.

    You might be right; I pretty much going on what I have read on here! It is my understanding that a court will only enforce the PRTB ruling, but I might be wrong.


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    #105
    Sugar Soap
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5 ✭Sugar Soap


    discodavie wrote: »
    Rubbish.

    If they are not paying rent a 14 day rent arrears notice to be served followed by a 28 day notice if termination if the full amount owed has not been paid.

    If the tenant has been served a valid notice if termination and continues to stay in the dwelling illegally you must apply to the PRTB for resolution on the grounds of over holding.

    Overholding has nothing to do with rent being paid or not just a valid NOT.

    It is also one of the things you can request a priority hearing on.

    There is no need for a termination notice if there is one in dispute.
    There is no need to seek to terminate a tenancy for non payment before goin to the PRTB. An order for possession and N order for rent arrears are two different things.


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    #106
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    discodavie wrote: »
    Correct ,

    The PRTB is the only legal route unless costs are above 60K

    After determination order is sent if tenant continues to stay in the dwelling then you can take it to the district court and get a court order and engage a sheriff if you like but only AFTER going through the PRTB dispute resolution process.

    The potential costs are above 60k... this poor man stands to see the sale fall through because his tenants are being assholes. wonder if that's enough to see a court?


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    #107
    discodavie
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭discodavie


    Sugar Soap wrote: »
    There is no need for a termination notice if there is one in dispute.
    There is no need to seek to terminate a tenancy for non payment before goin to the PRTB. An order for possession and N order for rent arrears are two different things.

    1 - I never said anything about a second notice.

    2 - if any of my tenants had gotten so far as to pay so late that I issued a NOT and they didn't leave then I would be going to the PRTB , that's what this thread is about.

    3 - There is only a PRTB determination order (non payment or otherwise) not desperate things like you imply.

    And when it's sent in a case like this it determines the date a tenant MUST leave by.


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    #108
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    miss no stars wrote: »
    The potential costs are above 60k... this poor man stands to see the sale fall through because his tenants are being assholes. wonder if that's enough to see a court?

    I dont believe that would count as a cost in this case, but you have a point and it is something worth looking into further.


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    #109
    discodavie
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭discodavie


    miss no stars wrote: »
    The potential costs are above 60k... this poor man stands to see the sale fall through because his tenants are being assholes. wonder if that's enough to see a court?

    The key word there is potential I'm afraid.

    If rent arrears were +60k then you'd have no problem but the other side could argue that he could always find another buyer.


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