6 years for killing one and almost killing another!!

newsunglasses

If you say so. I'd be inclined to go along with people who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to incarceration and justice though... and the countless studies which show that the worse an inmate is treated, the worse they'll subsequently treat others and the less unlikely they'll be to actually give something back to society.

The bottom line is we need more prisons and less lenient sentences. Maybe then we wouldn't need to dream up all sorts of rough justice fantasies.

Rough justice fantasies???Cods wallop,who wants to be a victim of crime tell me?



Justice should be harsh as a cause for deterrent,nothing more..And prisons should be profitable,WHY THE HELL NOT??

At least it won't be a heavy expensive burden on the government,if they are self sufficient and not only that PROFITBLE.


You say there are countless case studies...Point them out,show some links.


I Can tell you case and point,the rate of japanese re offenders is so low its negligible,that is down to the harsh treatment doled out to offenders in japanese prisons,even if they have a short stint in prison,they remember it,and not to go back either.

They dont have central heating in the cold winter months,and have to work for their keep in these prisons.They are beaten if they are perceived to be too loud or boisterous or cheeky.

Japanese prisons are very conservative,and would percieve a lot of things as loud and brash as they are a very conservative kind of people.

DarkJager

My name is URL wrote: »

If you say so. I'd be inclined to go along with people who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to incarceration and justice though... and the countless studies which show that the worse an inmate is treated, the worse they'll subsequently treat others and the less unlikely they'll be to actually give something back to society.

The bottom line is we need more prisons and less lenient sentences. Maybe then we wouldn't need to dream up all sorts of rough justice fantasies.

What is a fantasy about wanting to see proper harsh punishment for violent crime? I don't care how badly they are treated, the punishment should fit the severity of the crime.

I've said it previously and ill say it again, if people want to act the **** when they leave prison again there should be a 3 strike rule and none of this "400 previous convictions and roaming the streets" crap we read about every week. 3 chances to reform and if you come back for a 4th, you're snuffed out.

KamiKazeKitten

newsunglasses wrote: »

You have interpeted it wrongly thats your problem tbh - your obviously doing it to get an argument.That is plain to see.

I have no issue with what i said,im not taking any of it back either.


Maybe your issue with me ,is that we differ in opinion,i would like to see harsher punishments for criminals,especially those who don't respect my human rights..

My argument is why should we respect the human rights of these people,if they clearly don't respect ours?

Didnt ask you to take back the point, this is a discussion board, questioning posts is not simply looking for a row.
I have no issue with you, just your opinion.

Much as I'd like to see serious criminals punished hard, I'd prefer for them to have a lower chance of reoffending - so that means rehabilitation, according to research.

BattleCorp

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Currently running at 17 years.



You are perfectly entitled to defend your home with what ever force you deem reasonably necessary.

The above is only true if the judge or jury thinks it was reasonably necessary (justifiable force).

newsunglasses

DarkJager wrote: »

What is a fantasy about wanting to see proper harsh punishment for violent crime? I don't care how badly they are treated, the punishment should fit the severity of the crime.

I've said it previously and ill say it again, if people want to act the **** when they leave prison again there should be a 3 strike rule and none of this "400 previous convictions and roaming the streets" crap we read about every week. 3 chances to reform and if you come back for a 4th, you're snuffed out.

For me its not about hang em high or anything like that either,its about justice,an actual deterrent.

Where the punishment is so fitting they even think twice before comitting the crime itself.

Where they come out of prison and say to themselves ''i dont want to go back there again'..

I worked with some homeless people in 2006 - 2008 and the lot of them saying they would do anything to get back ''inside''(in prison!?).

Prison should be so bad it even puts homeless people off,i know of one case where a guy was held hostage in his car,the guy who did it got pissing time of a sentence for his crimes,and he comitted other crimes too.

Prisons have good ameneties and are not profitable,we need to get prisons working and pay them peanuts for it, a person working in an indian sweatshop is worked more and payed less than these guys,it shoudnt be the case.

It costs the government to put them in jail and feed them,why not turn prison into a working enteprise,like free labour,make prisons pay for their own keep.

It shouldnt be at the cost of the tax payer.Why should the victim pay for the prisoners upkeep?

newsunglasses

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

Didnt ask you to take back the point, this is a discussion board, questioning posts is not simply looking for a row.
I have no issue with you, just your opinion.

Much as I'd like to see serious criminals punished hard, I'd prefer for them to have a lower chance of reoffending - so that means rehabilitation, according to research.

You should see the re offence rate of japanese prisons,and they are harsh..

It is so low it is almost negligible.


Where is your research that rehabilitation ,and recreational time ,all the prison ameneties etc,do much good.

In the end what i see is it 1. costs the tax payer more
2. they cant wait to get back into prison again,so commit another crime,i know this by the horses mouth,homeless people used to brag about re offending just to get back into prison.

Prison should be so bad,that it puts a person off wanting to go back in,there is something radically wrong in our first world society if ex cons want to go back 'inside'.

Gatling

Funny thing he will get out and go straight on jobseeker's and get social housing.
On some stupid human rights grounds ,that of be deported and walk back in 2 weeks later

jim-mcdee

he should be extradited to poland and serve his sentence there. why should we pay twice?

LowKeyReturn

BattleCorp wrote: »

The above is only true if the judge or jury thinks it was reasonably necessary (justifiable force).

Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Act 2011

2.— (1) Notwithstanding the generality of any other enactment or rule of law and subject to subsections (2) and (3), it shall not be an offence for a person who is in his or her dwelling, or for a person who is a lawful occupant in a dwelling, to use force against another person or the property of another person where—

(a) he or she believes the other person has entered or is entering the dwelling as a trespasser for the purpose of committing a criminal act, and

(b) the force used is only such as is reasonable in the circumstances as he or she believes them to be—

(i) to protect himself or herself or another person present in the dwelling from injury, assault, detention or death caused by a criminal act,

(ii) to protect his or her property or the property of another person from appropriation, destruction or damage caused by a criminal act, or

(iii) to prevent the commission of a crime or to effect, or assist in effecting, a lawful arrest.

Prior to this we saw the attitude of juries in DPP v Nally. In most cases it would be the decision of the jury as to whether YOU believed the force was necessary.

LowKeyReturn

newsunglasses wrote: »

You should see the re offence rate of japanese prisons,and they are harsh..

It is so low it is almost negligible.


Where is your research that rehabilitation ,and recreational time ,all the prison ameneties etc,do much good.

In the end what i see is it 1. costs the tax payer more
2. they cant wait to get back into prison again,so commit another crime,i know this by the horses mouth,homeless people used to brag about re offending just to get back into prison.

Prison should be so bad,that it puts a person off wanting to go back in,there is something radically wrong in our first world society if ex cons want to go back 'inside'.

You actually don't know what you are talking about here. Youth recidivism in Japanese prisons as been as high as 40% compared to 24% in some Nordic countries.

While Amnesty international do have a problem with the Japanese prison system and Japan does employ PFI in a very limited number of its low security prisons its not the profit making hell hole you are making it out to be. Japanese culture has a lot to do with their crime stats as does the fact that they have better aftercare for people released from prison.

BattleCorp

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Act 2011

2.— (1) Notwithstanding the generality of any other enactment or rule of law and subject to subsections (2) and (3), it shall not be an offence for a person who is in his or her dwelling, or for a person who is a lawful occupant in a dwelling, to use force against another person or the property of another person where—

(a) he or she believes the other person has entered or is entering the dwelling as a trespasser for the purpose of committing a criminal act, and

(b) the force used is only such as is reasonable in the circumstances as he or she believes them to be—

(i) to protect himself or herself or another person present in the dwelling from injury, assault, detention or death caused by a criminal act,

(ii) to protect his or her property or the property of another person from appropriation, destruction or damage caused by a criminal act, or

(iii) to prevent the commission of a crime or to effect, or assist in effecting, a lawful arrest.

Prior to this we saw the attitude of juries in DPP v Nally. In most cases it would be the decision of the jury as to whether YOU believed the force was necessary.

Agreed. You are allowed to use reasonable force to protect yourself and your property. What wouldn't be reasonable force is to batter someone to death with a lead pipe because they were robbing apples from your garden.

It's not quite as black and white as it sounds.

LowKeyReturn

BattleCorp wrote: »

Agreed. You are allowed to use reasonable force to protect yourself and your property. What wouldn't be reasonable force is to batter someone to death with a lead pipe because they were robbing apples from your garden.

It's not quite as black and white as it sounds.

It's not a test of reasonable force - its a test of what someone in that situation believed to be reasonable. If I smack someone over the head with a hurley in my livingroom, believing they where armed (with a knife), and kill them I will not get the book thrown at me.

pragmatic1

There's no law and order in this country anymore. Irish judges have to be the softest judges in the world. It's crazy what people get away with.

newsunglasses

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

You actually don't know what you are talking about here. Youth recidivism in Japanese prisons as been as high as 40% compared to 24% in some Nordic countries.

While Amnesty international do have a problem with the Japanese prison system and Japan does employ PFI in a very limited number of its low security prisons its not the profit making hell hole you are making it out to be. Japanese culture has a lot to do with their crime stats as does the fact that they have better aftercare for people released from prison.

If they have after care that would encourage re offending ,some criminals are homeless and end up committing a crime so they have some where to kip.

Prison may not seem like a bad choice to spending a few nights on the streets in the cold winter months..

I have worked with homeless people,and some have even openly bragged about re offending just to get a stay in prison.

LowKeyReturn

newsunglasses wrote: »

I have worked with homeless people,and some have even openly bragged about re offending just to get a stay in prison.

It would be a tough decision to stay on the streets or even in somewhere like the joy. If you think it's a picnic though I'd suggest some volunteer work in there. People have a very weird view of what Irish prisons are like based on stories out of the Midlands prision and what, I suspect at least, was corruption/incompetence on the part of prison officers.

mattjack

jim-mcdee wrote: »

he should be extradited to poland and serve his sentence there. why should we pay twice?

Read the first post carefully ..... the convicted man is from ?

LowKeyReturn

mattjack wrote: »

Read the first post carefully ..... the convicted man is from ?

LOL aye but how long before we start outsourcing?

mattjack

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

LOL aye but how long before we start outsourcing?

Poland , Lithuania , Russia... all the same right ?

LowKeyReturn

Anyways sorry to be a see you next Tuesday but it sticks in my craw when people just assume its an easy fix. Everyone's heart is in the right place - lower crime - unfortunately harsher prisons aren't the answer and longer sentences aren't economically possible.

Very rare for me to question a sentence, these guys know what they are doing - but I think human error has creeped in on this one.

Death and Taxes

techdiver wrote: »

Full article:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0513/391971-six-year-sentence-for-fatal-nenagh-stabbing/

A few points:

1. How is it manslaughter considering he left the scene of the original altercation, went home to get a weapon and returned to kill the two men.
2. WTF is it with Ireland and concurrent sentences! It ridiculous!

Also:


My arse he did!



I also heard mentioned on the news that foreign nationals receive special dispensation when it comes to prison terms! Once again what the hell is that about??

You did in your hole, valid link or GTFO

newsunglasses

Everyone's heart is in the right place - lower crime - unfortunately harsher prisons aren't the answer and longer sentences aren't economically possible.

So let me get this straight,what youre saying is shorter sentences and nicey nicey time in prison.Where is the lesson for them.?

You have to admit,we are in a bad state as a first world society,if people are of the mindset that reoffending will get them a nice place to kip..

mattjack

WileyCoyote wrote: »

You did in your hole, valid link or GTFO

:pac::pac: its true , sure if you post it here , its got to gospel....

JustAThought

Prisoners should NOT be allowed to
Draw the dole While in prison. Released
From a 3 year sentence with 30,000 +
In the bank " saved" -
And no bills; gas, TV, LX, food, medical, dental etc to pay or contribute Towards while serving For Crimes.

And pensioners, victims & taxpayers go short on services & are
Hit with crucifying living costs & taxes.

GTFO of it.

mattjack

JustAThought wrote: »

Prisoners should NOT be allowed to
Draw the dole While in prison. Released
From a 3 year sentence with 30,000 +
In the bank " saved" -
And no bills; gas, TV, LX, food, medical, dental etc to pay or contribute Towards while serving For Crimes.

And pensioners, victims & taxpayers go short on services & are
Hit with crucifying living costs & taxes.

GTFO of it.

Do you make this stuff up yourself , they can't draw the dole in prison.

LowKeyReturn

newsunglasses wrote: »

So let me get this straight,what youre saying is shorter sentences and nicey nicey time in prison.Where is the lesson for them.?

You have to admit,we are in a bad state as a first world society,if people are of the mindset that reoffending will get them a nice place to kip..

The approach needs to be holistic as it is in Northern Europe. You were on the right track with Japan, carry on with your research as to where has lower crime and recidivism. The only caveat - when you find it take a look at their tax levels.

techdiver

WileyCoyote wrote: »

You did in your hole, valid link or GTFO

It was stated on the news report on the 6 one news by Paul Reynolds.

.... and leniency for foreign prisioners here

If you had taken the time to view the video on the link I originally attached you would have seen it too.

IvySlayer

Stabbing someone seven times should not be considered manslaughter.

techdiver

mattjack wrote: »

:pac::pac: its true , sure if you post it here , its got to gospel....

I'll also refer you to my reply to WileyCoyote!

Check the video tab on the link I originally attached.

techdiver

@WileyCoyote and @mattjack this is the link again in case you missed it the first time!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0513/391971-six-year-sentence-for-fatal-nenagh-stabbing/

mattjack

techdiver wrote: »

@WileyCoyote and @mattjack this is the link again in case you missed it the first time!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0513/391971-six-year-sentence-for-fatal-nenagh-stabbing/

I can't hear you , I'm wearing a towel.