All Blacks Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Swiwi.

I'm taking the bait hook, line and sinker, but of course virtually all poaching is SH => NH in the form of project players. Despite some fans having misgivings, it's not going to change. Which countries provide the players - mainly NZ, South Africa and the Pacific Islands. Which countries benefit - mainly the 6N countries. Which countries hold the voting power at the IRB - essentially the 6N countries. Some fans here are a bit against project players - but if the choice was between a Lions victory or an Irish grand slam in 2017 inspired by a Bundee Aki/Jared Payne midfield, for some fans the end would justify the means. You could probably just about name a competitive Lions side from players with Super Rugby experience. In the professional era, I would probably only count Sitiveni Sivivatu and Malakai Fekitoa as essentially project players (and they weren't NZRFU project players, but rather Wesley College ones). The rest are in the vast majoriy born & bred Kiwis. I still expect the poaching claims to come round again...especially with the RWC nearing...just not from British media sources this time.

errlloyd

The (unfair) reason New Zealand get more stick is because there is a perception that the best Pacific islanders leave to be All Blacks, in the northern hemisphere the majority of project players are rejects from tier one nations. Jared Payne, Jake Heenan, Richardt Strauss and CJ Stander were never going to play for ABs or springboks, but anyone who plays for the All Blacks would definitely have made their own national team.

I'm not saying that perception is correct. It's just the one people have.

sydthebeat

I think it's hypocritical for Irish people to be demeaning the choice of someone to move to a foreign country to better themselves.

Tox56

sydthebeat wrote: »

I think it's hypocritical for Irish people to be demeaning the choice of someone to move to a foreign country to better themselves.

Do people ever actually demean the players themselves

sydthebeat

I said demeaning the choice. It's always a choice.

Personally I would prefer to be selecting a player who lived in the country for over six years, over a player who was flown in because of a 'granny rule'.

What i don't like is bundee aki saying "id love to represent Ireland" before he's a wet week here and hasn't even had a pint of Guinness. That smacks of forced repatriation.

Swiwi.

errlloyd wrote: »

The (unfair) reason New Zealand get more stick is because there is a perception that the best Pacific islanders leave to be All Blacks, in the northern hemisphere the majority of project players are rejects from tier one nations. Jared Payne, Jake Heenan, Richardt Strauss and CJ Stander were never going to play for ABs or springboks, but anyone who plays for the All Blacks would definitely have made their own national team.

I'm not saying that perception is correct. It's just the one people have.

The reality is that NZers born & bred in NZ but with Pacific heritage choose mostly (but not always) to represent NZ rather than the country their grandparents or parents emigrated from.

Now of course playing for NZ is an attractive proposition, not least because it brings a certain status which makes the player more marketable if they eventually look for a career in Japan or Europe, but also the ABs get to generally play a better standard of opposition than the Pacific Nations and so on.

sweetthing

errlloyd wrote: »

The (unfair) reason New Zealand get more stick is because there is a perception that the best Pacific islanders leave to be All Blacks, in the northern hemisphere the majority of project players are rejects from tier one nations. Jared Payne, Jake Heenan, Richardt Strauss and CJ Stander were never going to play for ABs or springboks, but anyone who plays for the All Blacks would definitely have made their own national team.

I'm not saying that perception is correct. It's just the one people have.

Payne and stander definitely were in the reckoning for their respective national sides before moving over...sure wasn't stander included in an extended springboks training squad right before he signed with Munster.

total former

sweetthing wrote: »

Payne and stander definitely were in the reckoning for their respective national sides before moving over...sure wasn't stander included in an extended springboks training squad right before he signed with Munster.

No, I don't think either of them were realistic candidates for inclusion. Payne was 26 when he arrived here, his chance was gone. Stander could have stuck it out alright and might have earned a shot but he wasn't in the frame at the time of his departure.

(but yes, he did train with the Boks)

total former

Re: Fekitoa - he's a young guy from a poor country that is as close to the middle of nowhere as you can get. He gets an opportunity for a potentially lucrative career in a developed nation; why would he not take it?? And how could anyone give out about that?

total former

In actual news:

http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-news/all-blacks-skipper-richie-mccaw-i-ll-probably-retire-after-world-cup-6238532

Richie McCaw wrote:

Honestly, I haven't made any final decisions, but probably the likelihood is I am not going to be playing next year. But I don't want to be getting carried away now, talking about those sorts of things when I am focusing on playing.

I am not looking overseas and nothing has changed there.

Yeah_Right

sweetthing wrote: »

Payne and stander definitely were in the reckoning for their respective national sides before moving over...sure wasn't stander included in an extended springboks training squad right before he signed with Munster.

You are right about Payne. He was plaing some fantastic rugby for the Blues and Northland. There was a lot of talk about him being in the 2011 RWC squad as a centre. The issue was Conrad Smith, Nonu, SBW and Richard Kahui all ahead of him. Payne was only a couple of injuries away from being an AB.

Swiwi.

This thread takes a break from AB news to congratulate Ireland on retaining their 6N title.

Normal service will resume in due course.

Wang King

Swiwi. wrote: »

This thread takes a break from AB news to congratulate Ireland on retaining their 6N title.

Normal service will resume in due course.

Service is a euphemism for gloating?

Swiwi.

Swiwi. wrote: »

2015: Tony Woodcock, Tom Taylor, Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Liam Messam, Sam Cane, Luke Whitelock, Keven Mealamu, Ben Franks, Wyatt Crockett, Ben Afeaki:(, Brodie Retallick, Jeremy Thrush, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Colin Slade, Ma'a Nonu, Francis Saili, Julian Savea, Charles Piutau, Conrad Smith, Victor Vito, Ryan Crotty

2016: Aaron Smith, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Jeffrey Toomaga-Allen, Dominic Bird, Matt Todd, Dane Coles, Luke Romano, SBW, Patrick Tuipolotou

2017: Kieran Read, Owen Franks, Israel Dagg, Sam Whitelock, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith, Cory Jane, Charlie Faumauina, Steven Luatua, Malakai Fekitoa

2018: Jerome Kaino

Even if I'm only posting to myself (quite likely...), time to bump this thread and update this list.

Munster fans will get zero compassion from me if they complain about losing JJH...

It is expected Savea & Retallick have signed 4 year contracts worth about NZ$800,000 per year (approx €500,000), which if true is another amazing effort by the NZRFU, how they keep such players in NZ is beyond me. Sam Cane is also supposed to have put pen to paper. Woodcock, McCaw and Mealamu are supposed to be retiring. Which probably leaves Vito & Crotty as the most likely to possibly move off-shore, Messam is thought to be targetting the Olympic 7s. Both would be good signings. We will see.

stl.ire

Swiwi. wrote: »

It is expected Savea & Retallick have signed 4 year contracts worth about NZ$800,000 per year (approx €500,000), which if true is another amazing effort by the NZRFU, how they keep such players in NZ is beyond me. Sam Cane is also supposed to have put pen to paper. Woodcock, McCaw and Mealamu are supposed to be retiring. Which probably leaves Vito & Crotty as the most likely to possibly move off-shore, Messam is thought to be targetting the Olympic 7s. Both would be good signings. We will see.

They've confirmed Savea and Retallick now - amazing work, particularly as both should have another world cup in them, retallick probably 2. Cane signing imo would be even more important long term.

Vito and Crotty are realistically on the AB fringes and though they might become starters after the world cup exodus that's unlikely to last for 4 years. They're quality players, so if they go it will be a big loss to NZ rugby but the All Blacks should be fine enough. Can't see any Irish team being in for them - Vito would be a dream signing for Ulster but they've no space for another overseas player and I doubt he'd want a delayed Piutau styled contract (to wait for that ridiculous Nick Williams contract to expire) seeing how that's gone.

In other news the curse may have stuck again. Colin Slade apparently has a worse injury than thought, there was a report that he might be out for a while. So the 10 picture has no cruden, the currently injured Barrett and Slade, an off form and often played out of position Carter and then the Crusaders 3rd 10 Tom Taylor. It's a good thing Lima Sopoaga and Damien McKensie are having great seasons! They are not far from a plane ticket at all.

Swiwi.

stl.ire wrote: »

They've confirmed Savea and Retallick now - amazing work, particularly as both should have another world cup in them, retallick probably 2. Cane signing imo would be even more important long term.

Vito and Crotty are realistically on the AB fringes and though they might become starters after the world cup exodus that's unlikely to last for 4 years. They're quality players, so if they go it will be a big loss to NZ rugby but the All Blacks should be fine enough. Can't see any Irish team being in for them - Vito would be a dream signing for Ulster but they've no space for another overseas player and I doubt he'd want a delayed Piutau styled contract (to wait for that ridiculous Nick Williams contract to expire) seeing how that's gone.

In other news the curse may have stuck again. Colin Slade apparently has a worse injury than thought, there was a report that he might be out for a while. So the 10 picture has no cruden, the currently injured Barrett and Slade, an off form and often played out of position Carter and then the Crusaders 3rd 10 Tom Taylor. It's a good thing Lima Sopoaga and Damien McKensie are having great seasons! They are not far from a plane ticket at all.

We follow a simple recipe: grow decent flyhalves on trees, knowing that birds, frostbite, hungry kids etc will account for about half the stock. Maybe Jimmy Gopperth in line for a shock call up...

I would be very happy if the Saders sign Otere Black and Damian McKenzie (would have to break his Chiefs contract, so unlikely). The recruitment has been pretty woeful in recent times, with a whole lot of solid journeyman-type players.

irishbucsfan

I've heard Niall O'Connor was spotted looking in the window of a Christchurch estate agent earlier this week.

Wang King

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I've heard Niall O'Connor was spotted looking in the window of a Christchurch estate agent earlier this week.

They do job bridge over there too?!

sydneybound

Dan Coles signed a four year deal to play through to the 2019 WC. Surely a massive lure for these players is to take part in the 2017 Lions tour given NZ players only play in them every 12 years and the next tour will be the biggest yet.

MikeSD

RIP Jerry Collins.

sydthebeat

That's tragic news

postitnote

RIP Jerry. So sad to hear.

TheBigGreen

RIP Jerry!

Remember him out and about drinking pints in The Establishment and Mollys.

Hardy man!

Wang King

sydneybound wrote: »

Dan Coles signed a four year deal to play through to the 2019 WC. Surely a massive lure for these players is to take part in the 2017 Lions tour given NZ players only play in them every 12 years and the next tour will be the biggest yet.

I wouldn't think a lions tour would be in any AB's thinking when signing a new contract

A-Train

That is terrible news, very sad to hear, RIP to him and his wife.

Noopti

Absolutely tragic news. RIP.

vienne86

Just heard about the tragic news from France - RIP great rugby man and his wife.

eagle eye

Horrible news RIP

Buer

Just to give a nice anecdote about the bloke and the sort of man he was, I'm sure most of us recall his involvement with Barnstaple RFC after the 2007 RWC:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/2324673/All-Black-gives-Barnstaple-second-XV-the-edge.html

He had his difficulties but he came across as someone who had his heart very much in the right place.

ItsChecoTime

Sad news RIP to Jerry and his wife. Hope their daughter can pull through

dub_skav

Dreadful news, fabulous player and as per Buer's post - always seemed like a nice bloke too.

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Just to give a nice anecdote about the bloke and the sort of man he was, I'm sure most of us recall his involvement with Barnstaple RFC after the 2007 RWC:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/2324673/All-Black-gives-Barnstaple-second-XV-the-edge.html

He had his difficulties but he came across as someone who had his heart very much in the right place.

Collins seemed to have turned a corner at Narbonne, after some troubles in Japan. He arrived in France as a medical joker in January and was crucial in keeping Narbonne in ProD2.

It's really really sad. I really hope their baby daughter can pull through.

Quint2010

Tragic news. RIP Jerry.

Wanderer78

rip

Larbre34

Proper shocked when I heard on the sports news earlier, RIP both.

thebaz

class class player - tough as nails - like most humans who live a life he had a few difficulties - But what a player - big loss to everyone who loves the game . R.I.P.

crisco10

Classy guy too. First thing I thought of was this story..Link

After the disappointment of the world cup, all he wanted to do was play rugby with the lads and by all accounts seemed a true gent.

Grid.

R.I.P Jerry......such sad news!:(

stephen_n

Very very sad for the families. RIP

Yeah_Right

Very sad news about JC.

A couple of stories I read about him that seemed to show the sort of bloke he was. He bought a nice new house in Wellington shortly after making the ABs. Moved his parents into it and then he went and lived in the council house where he grew up. He wanted to be a role model to the kids from his local community. If he ever caught any of them cutting school he would escort them back to school or call their parents.
When he was rehabbing after breaking his leg, he joined his cousin on the local rubbish truck crew for a couple of months. He reckoned running behind the truck throwing garbage bags was the best way to test his leg. He always shouted the boys a couple of crates of beer at the end of the week.

Yeah_Right

I almost forgot about the time he took a quick leak on the field before a Bledisloe Cup match ��

DDC1990

RIP Jerry. An iconic player, and the biggest arms that I have every seen on a rugby player.

EDIT: RIP to his wife also, and I hope their 3 month old pulls through. Horrifying stuff.

GiftofGab

Terrible news - never thought something like a car could stop Jerry Collins.

R.I.P. He seemed like a true gent.

penybont exile

Met Jerry in the hotel lift on the eve of the 2nd Lions test in Wellington 2005.

There were three of us and him. One of the boys said let's crock him or something like that .......

Jerry laughed ..... "Who's first then boys ....."

RIP boyo.

bmwguy

I loved Jerry as a player, part of what I consider the best teams I have ever seen, the mid 2000s all blacks and he was central to it. The first thing that popped into my head when I heard it was a bus that hit him was the irony as I imagine being hit by Jerry out on the pitch would be like the old proverb of feeling like you were hit by a bus! Not trying to make light of it and I know some people do not like that kind of humour but I'm sure Jerry would appreciate the irony if he is looking down on us along with his wife. I met the man twice, once in Trevor Brennans pub and once in Fr Ted's in Auckland, both quiet occasions during the day so I got to talk to him, very genuine decent bloke very willing to talk rugby and interested in asking about my own very humble rugby career as an amateur player in Ireland and talking about his own only when asked. We are the exact same age as each other so had a lot in common. I hope his little daughter pulls through and finds out what a great her father was and a hero to so many of us.

sydneybound

Sam Cane resigns till 2017, many will be delighted with that news. I would have preferred to get him on a four deal till the end of 2019.

sydthebeat

5 debutants called into the AB extended squad.
Milner skudder, naholo and sopoaga Probably fully expected.
Codie taylor the saders hooker and broadhurst the canes lock.
Taylor is a bit of a surprise, especially if compared to what Liam Coltman has been doing all season for the Highlanders.

A mention too to casey laulalas little bro nepo who's named as injury cover for charlie famuaina,

sydthebeat

a handy stat if the "all blacks poach pacific islands" argument come up again.


Dating back to 1884, only 32 of the 1133 All Black players were born in the islands.

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

a handy stat if the "all blacks poach pacific islands" argument come up again.


Dating back to 1884, only 32 of the 1133 All Black players were born in the islands.

2.8% if you're that way inclined. So next time someone raises that chestnut the response should be nothing more than 2.8%.

total former

sydthebeat wrote: »

a handy stat if the "all blacks poach pacific islands" argument come up again.


Dating back to 1884, only 32 of the 1133 All Black players were born in the islands.

An interesting stat but not really relevant to the current situation.