Dublin-Belfast Rail Passengers "plummet"

BenShermin

catrionanic wrote: »

Im up and down on the enterprise and you'd never guess it, its always rammed (like tonight, there was barely an empty seat on the whole train)

its quite an expensive service to use. twice the price of the bus and only a few mins quicker

To be fair if booked in advance it can work out only being €7.98 dearer than BÉ. It's much better value than the likes of Dublin to Cork imo.

foggy_lad

BenShermin wrote: »

To be fair if booked in advance it can work out only being €7.98 dearer than BÉ. It's much better value than the likes of Dublin to Cork imo.

Is that including the 5% discount for online booking with BE?

Losty Dublin

BenShermin wrote: »

To be fair if booked in advance it can work out only being €7.98 dearer than BÉ. It's much better value than the likes of Dublin to Cork imo.

I was looking online last Wednesday to travel the day after; it was €15.99 per leg.

BenShermin

foggy_lad wrote: »

Is that including the 5% discount for online booking with BE?

You can't get the 5% discount on cross border BÉ services unfortunately. Just looked up Aircoach, they're only €20 return to Belfast if booked on-line, great value there.

foggy_lad

BenShermin wrote: »

You can't get the 5% discount on cross border BÉ services unfortunately. Just looked up Aircoach, they're only €20 return to Belfast if booked on-line, great value there.

I thought you had read the sterling price as the fares page states €24 return but booking online the price comes up at €20 or £16:D

Michael D Not Higgins

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They can buy something else that'll do the job, but they don't need to electrify the entire line at horrendous and unnecessary cost. That would be a vanity project.

if you're going to spend so much upgrading the line and buying new rolling stock, you might as well go with EMUs

Michael D Not Higgins

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

if you're going to spend so much upgrading the line and buying new rolling stock, you might as well go with EMUs

If you have shedloads of extra money to spend, and you're willing to spend it to achieve the same speeds. That's why it's a vanity project.

Or you might as well not.

Michael D Not Higgins

I don't know the numbers but you'd have to do a whole life cost analysis to compare feasibility. I'm not saying electrification is better, just that it could be. There's a reason why Britain are pumping money into electrification at the moment, and it's probably because it pays back in the long run.

That sort of capital investment is a pipe dream for Ireland right now but it's foolish to dismiss an option as a vanity project without all the facts.

Richard

dudara wrote: »

This was middle of the day, lunchtime. Scary thing is that no-one intervened. Seemed all too regular.

Look at the last year of unrest in the city. There is a definite reluctance to go there for recreational purposes, particularly if you're a Southerner. The above article mentions economic crashes, rail bridge collapses, but it doesn't take sectarian factors into account.

I lived in NI for the first 22 years of my life, right through until the late nineties.

I never saw any disturbance of any kind, apart from on the TV.

Obviously if I'd lived in certain areas
my experience would have been radically different, and Belfast still isn't a normal city but its easy to see idiots on the TV and think the whole place is like that. It's not.

Back to the original article and although it's badly written ("Death by 1000 cuts" isn't a correct phrase to use here) it does highlight a problem. The improved roads between Belfast and Dublin are an issue and I think, back then, there was a novelty value of people not having been before.

If they could get a proper high speed line going then that would help, but Irish people (North and South) love their cars and its difficult to change habits.

Captain Chaos

Deleted User wrote: »

They can buy something else that'll do the job, but they don't need to electrify the entire line at horrendous and unnecessary cost. That would be a vanity project.

They need to relay most of the line to get running speeds over 90mph for any sort of large sections. Then you have pathing issues with local services north and south of the boarder.
The current rolling stock could improve times if the track was in better condition or a higher standard and better timetabling of local trains.

There are 25mph speed restrictions around Clongriffin because of a passing loop built 2 years ago and has yet to be commissioned because it would require the line to be closed for a weekend.

At Howth Junction there is a speed restriction there because the points are in a bad way and it will cost alot to replace the junction and closing the line for a week.

They are just an example of the line condition 5 miles from Connolly.

devnull

foggy_lad wrote: »

I thought you had read the sterling price as the fares page states €24 return but booking online the price comes up at €20 or £16:D

The fares page is the on bus fares.

The online fares are £8/€10 single.

Paying in Sterling worked out cheaper after currency exchange when I used it in February.

rainbowdash

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Nah I'd say that honor goes to the M8 .. or the M3 beyond Navan.

I'd say the Gort bypass motorway will give them a run for their money.

Back on topic it seems the railways are behind the motorway bus or car options.

To get back to being competitive railways will need huge investment and long stretches of 100mph+ running, along with the interconnector and a few other expensive things.

There is no way money will be spent on this given the short distances between the cities and the obvious financial predicament of the country.

dowlingm

catrionanic wrote: »

Im up and down on the enterprise and you'd never guess it, its always rammed (like tonight, there was barely an empty seat on the whole train)

its quite an expensive service to use. twice the price of the bus and only a few mins quicker

What was your reason for using this service rather than buses then?

Grandeeod

rainbowdash wrote: »

I'd say the Gort bypass motorway will give them a run for their money.

Back on topic it seems the railways are behind the motorway bus or car options.

To get back to being competitive railways will need huge investment and long stretches of 100mph+ running, along with the interconnector and a few other expensive things.

There is no way money will be spent on this given the short distances between the cities and the obvious financial predicament of the country.

Your post is at least 15 years behind the times and this has been articulated before. When IE got the green light for investment, they muddled it, pure and simple. The motorways were well flagged. The interconnector/DART Underground was on the deck since 2001 at least. A combo of CIE inertia and Government crap stalled any real commitment. A blind man could see the motorways coming. There is very little to excuse the current position.

Richard Logue

Grandeeod wrote: »

Your post is at least 15 years behind the times and this has been articulated before. When IE got the green light for investment, they muddled it, pure and simple. The motorways were well flagged. The interconnector/DART Underground was on the deck since 2001 at least. A combo of CIE inertia and Government crap stalled any real commitment. A blind man could see the motorways coming. There is very little to excuse the current position.

The Interconnector was akways going to be an extraordinarily expensive project, by the time the Railway Order was made the money had disappeared, though of all the projects I still think that it is the most worthwhile, if we ever get the chance of having it built.

As to your muddled comment, could you develop that further? Where do you think IE muddled the investment opportunities?

bk

Richard Logue wrote: »

As to your muddled comment, could you develop that further? Where do you think IE muddled the investment opportunities?

They spent a great deal of money on upgrading the track and signalling to improve safety, but when doing this work they didn't spend a little bit of extra money to also make the necessary changes to improve speed and journey times.

And all of this during the Celtic Tiger when lots of money was available!

Instead Irish Rail management seemed to think the money would continue to flow for ever and they could just do the speed upgrade work at a future point.

Likewise not buying 125mph capable locomotive power for the Mark4's or speccing the 22k's to 100mph only.

All seems incredibly short sighted now.

Losty Dublin

bk wrote: »

They spent a great deal of money on upgrading the track and signalling to improve safety, but when doing this work they didn't spend a little bit of extra money to also make the necessary changes to improve speed and journey times.

And all of this during the Celtic Tiger when lots of money was available!

Instead Irish Rail management seemed to think the money would continue to flow for ever and they could just do the speed upgrade work at a future point.

Likewise not buying 125mph capable locomotive power for the Mark4's or speccing the 22k's to 100mph only.

All seems incredibly short sighted now.

Irish Rail can only carry out the investment projects that their shareholders* allow them to. Similarly, they can only spend the cash granted to them for same. You should ask their shareholders* why they don't want to provide Irish Rail with the resources and freedom to be able to operate faster services and not the other way around.

*That's the Minister of Transport, by the way.

Grandeeod

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Irish Rail can only carry out the investment projects that their shareholders* allow them to. Similarly, they can only spend the cash granted to them for same. You should ask their shareholders* why they don't want to provide Irish Rail with the resources and freedom to be able to operate faster services and not the other way around.

*That's the Minister of Transport, by the way.

No transport minister is solely responsible for this and we are talking about the period 1999 - 2007 which is accepted as the period of unprecedented investment.

If I was to ask the shareholder now, he would tell me what I already know.

No money.

If you can provide evidence that Irish Rail requested investment to upgrade the network to a standard that was safe, modern and faster than previously, I'd love to see it. We got safer and modern. We did not get faster. During a period of wealth, why did Irish Rail not request investment that would also include a speed up of line speeds? If they did, then show me the evidence.

There is absolutely no question that over the years successive Governments have neglected railways, but something unprecedented occurred during the above period and I really don't think we got the best from it. A railcar order for units capable of only 100mph clearly demonstrates the long term thinking within Irish Rail. That order was well before the bottom fell out of the economy. However I'd be happy enough if the 100mph mark could be hit a lot more.

Losty Dublin

The Strategic Rail Review of 2003 set out three investment options along with reasonable ball park figures at the time. In the main, Irish Rail were granted the middle option from same, which was referred to as "Staying In the Game" in the report and had led us to what we have today. Included in it was all the realistic proposals and figures for improvements and expansion that you could shake a stick at. Many of these ideas mirror those from reports over the last 50 years; ideas that are gathering dust in government file storage companies.

Irish Rail and CIE know what they would like to do to better things, given the money and permission from Cabinet. You are playing dumb suggesting that they can do otherwise.

Grandeeod wrote: »

No transport minister is solely responsible for this and we are talking about the period 1999 - 2007 which is accepted as the period of unprecedented investment.

If I was to ask the shareholder now, he would tell me what I already know.

No money.

If you can provide evidence that Irish Rail requested investment to upgrade the network to a standard that was safe, modern and faster than previously, I'd love to see it. We got safer and modern. We did not get faster. During a period of wealth, why did Irish Rail not request investment that would also include a speed up of line speeds? If they did, then show me the evidence.

There is absolutely no question that over the years successive Governments have neglected railways, but something unprecedented occurred during the above period and I really don't think we got the best from it. A railcar order for units capable of only 100mph clearly demonstrates the long term thinking within Irish Rail. That order was well before the bottom fell out of the economy. However I'd be happy enough if the 100mph mark could be hit a lot more.

Ernest

A much simpler issue influencing Dublin-Belfast railway travel: Car Parking at Connolly Station is now almost impossible to find. This was not the case a few years ago. Now there seems to be very few parking places available at the back of the station and most to the available space seems to be taken up with Irish Rail staff and operations vehicles.
It certainly stopped me from considering rail travel to Belfast a few times in the past year.

Con Logue

And presumably discouraged you from using the bus as well as there is no cheaper all day parking than that at Heuston or Connolly.

My usual thing is to park at Heuston and get the tram over if I'm going for the 0735 for tutorials in Belfast.

Grandeeod

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The Strategic Rail Review of 2003 set out three investment options along with reasonable ball park figures at the time. In the main, Irish Rail were granted the middle option from same, which was referred to as "Staying In the Game" in the report and had led us to what we have today. Included in it was all the realistic proposals and figures for improvements and expansion that you could shake a stick at. Many of these ideas mirror those from reports over the last 50 years; ideas that are gathering dust in government file storage companies.

Irish Rail and CIE know what they would like to do to better things, given the money and permission from Cabinet. You are playing dumb suggesting that they can do otherwise.

The SRR is by no means responsible for where we are at in relation to the issue we are discussing. Much of the reviews recommended investment strategy was implemented. It was a mix of staying in the game and going for growth. By the time it was published €600 million over 5 years had already been invested in the network bringing it up to a safe standard. The second phase of investment ran through to around 2009 and this phase was to concentrate on service - "improving the product and quality of experience" (Pat Mangan 2005) At one point €400 million per annum was being spent. It is here that I believe Irish Rail failed to address the line speed issue. Considering they claim that €175 million will now deliver a lot more 160kph running on the Galway and Cork routes and refer to it as modest, why did they not plan this as part of the second phase of investment between 2003 and 2008/9. The country was awash with money.

Im sure Irish rail know what they want to do to better things, but did they know about the obvious effect an IU motorway system would have when selecting what required investment during the second tranche of funding? I wonder did Dick Fearn know - "the issues came to a head when there was money to invest". Surely competitive line speeds were an issue. Furthermore, how many times over the last 10 years have I heard Barry Kenny promising faster trains once the works were completed? A lot.

Im not playing dumb, but neither do I accept bland excuses that just blame the Government.

Losty Dublin

Grandeeod wrote: »

The SRR is by no means responsible for where we are at in relation to the issue we are discussing. Much of the reviews recommended investment strategy was implemented. It was a mix of staying in the game and going for growth. By the time it was published €600 million over 5 years had already been invested in the network bringing it up to a safe standard. The second phase of investment ran through to around 2009 and this phase was to concentrate on service - "improving the product and quality of experience" (Pat Mangan 2005) At one point €400 million per annum was being spent. It is here that I believe Irish Rail failed to address the line speed issue. Considering they claim that €175 million will now deliver a lot more 160kph running on the Galway and Cork routes and refer to it as modest, why did they not plan this as part of the second phase of investment between 2003 and 2008/9. The country was awash with money.

Im sure Irish rail know what they want to do to better things, but did they know about the obvious effect an IU motorway system would have when selecting what required investment during the second tranche of funding? I wonder did Dick Fearn know - "the issues came to a head when there was money to invest". Surely competitive line speeds were an issue. Furthermore, how many times over the last 10 years have I heard Barry Kenny promising faster trains once the works were completed? A lot.

Im not playing dumb, but neither do I accept bland excuses that just blame the Government.

It is grossly misleading to say that most of the SRR investment plan was implemented as it accounted for 3 basic levels of eventuality and scenarios, not just one. In short, few elements of "going for growth" were adopted by cabinet with the overall course of action being for stability. They alone are responsible for deciding to go with this option, not Irish Rail.

eejoynt

The TGV? too expensive?, From 19 June the SNCF has launched a new cheap offer to fill its trains on Saturday or Sunday for the two summer months.

from todays Le Monde via Google translate

Tazz T

It would help if there was a through-train to Derry or at least the timetables linked up a bit better.

Everyone that needs to go to Derry gets the bus.

You can't even buy a ticket online to Derry. You have to get it at the station, whereas you buy from the NI side, you get a online choice (at a markedly cheaper rate than buying at Connolly).

Irish Rail are ignoring a big part of their market.

Richard Logue

Tazz, I do travel from Dublin to Derry by train, although I do admit I am in a minority on that... There is a five minute connection at Central from the Enterprise and I must have made that connection nine times out of ten, though it is very annoying to miss!

Of course it's possible to travel directly to Coleraine, Portrush and Castlerock as well, and therefore the Causeway Coast. Maybe a tourist promotion with car hire deals is needed, especially if the British Open returns to Portrush. Some of the best scenery in Ireland is there and all accessible by train, using Coleraine as a starting point.

At present the journey time is 4.5 hours by train, compared to 3.5/4 hours by bus depending on the traffic so I would expect most people would prefer to take the bus to be honest.

However when line speeds improve in 2015 maybe there would be an opportunity for Irish Rail and Translink to market the link between Dublin and Derry, but as I say the speeds need to improve first.

Con Logue

Richard Logue wrote: »

Tazz, I do travel from Dublin to Derry by train, although I do admit I am in a minority on that... There is a five minute connection at Central from the Enterprise and I must have made that connection nine times out of ten, though it is very annoying to miss!

Of course it's possible to travel directly to Coleraine, Portrush and Castlerock as well, and therefore the Causeway Coast. Maybe a tourist promotion with car hire deals is needed, especially if the British Open returns to Portrush. Some of the best scenery in Ireland is there and all accessible by train, using Coleraine as a starting point.

At present the journey time is 4.5 hours by train, compared to 3.5/4 hours by bus depending on the traffic so I would expect most people would prefer to take the bus to be honest.

However when line speeds improve in 2015 maybe there would be an opportunity for Irish Rail and Translink to market the link between Dublin and Derry, but as I say the speeds need to improve first.

The Derry line has tended to have two distinct markets, Derry to Coleraine and Portrush on one side and Befast to Coleraine and Portrush. I am told that some southern students in the University of Ulster at Coleraine do use the Derry train/Enterprise option.

The run between Castlerock and Derry, in particular where the railway meets the coast at Downhill, is noted well as one of the best railway journeys in these islands and after thirty years of doing the run at least once a year it never fails to inspire.

Grandeeod

Losty Dublin wrote: »

It is grossly misleading to say that most of the SRR investment plan was implemented as it accounted for 3 basic levels of eventuality and scenarios, not just one. In short, few elements of "going for growth" were adopted by cabinet with the overall course of action being for stability. They alone are responsible for deciding to go with this option, not Irish Rail.

Its not misleading at all. The Recommended Investment Strategy included staying in the game and aspects of Going for growth. Take out the Interconnector, which was never going to happen anyway and its close to the wire. The SRR excuse is pointless. Investment was flowing before it and the review acknowledges that.

You have not addressed any of my other points. With €400 million being spent per annum, where are the line speed improvements? Even the SRR recognised that after the initial €600 million investment, line speeds were still behind those that existed before its implementation. It was an issue. Please show me the evidence that during the period of massive investment in rail, Irish Rail considered improving line speeds to compete with the IU motorways.

Irish Rail made the business case for investment before money was released. I put it to you that there was no business case put forward for improving line speeds to compete with motorways.

Richard Logue

Grandeeod wrote: »

Its not misleading at all. The Recommended Investment Strategy included staying in the game and aspects of Going for growth. Take out the Interconnector, which was never going to happen anyway and its close to the wire. The SRR excuse is pointless. Investment was flowing before it and the review acknowledges that.

You have not addressed any of my other points. With €400 million being spent per annum, where are the line speed improvements? Even the SRR recognised that after the initial €600 million investment, line speeds were still behind those that existed before its implementation. It was an issue. Please show me the evidence that during the period of massive investment in rail, Irish Rail considered improving line speeds to compete with the IU motorways.

Irish Rail made the business case for investment before money was released. I put it to you that there was no business case put forward for improving line speeds to compete with motorways.

You can't just take out the interconnector and then simply claim that it wasn't going to happen. The Interconnector was at the heart of Irish Rail's Dublin Commuter long term plans for 35 years since the publication of the Dublin Rapid Transit proposals. The Kildare Route Project was the start of a strategy to electrify the South Western line to Hazelhatch and fundamentally reorganise the Dart so Hazelhatch would have been the terminus for services to Howth and Maynooth would have been the terminus for services to Bray.

Even Varadkar thinks the Interconnector will happen once the money to build it is found. So in my opinion the intention to build the Interconnector is still there at ministerial level. Of course we would still need to find the money and even an optimist like me would regard that as extraordinarily difficult in the short or medium term.

bk

But the interconnector has little or no impact on intercity investment *, it is mostly about expanded DART services.

* Well other then a very fanciful long term dream of a fully electrified intercity network so that intercity trains could run across the city in the interconnector and out to the airport. Very unlikely to happen in any of other life times.

Michael D Not Higgins

bk wrote: »

But the interconnector has little or no impact on intercity investment *, it is mostly about expanded DART services.

* Well other then a very fanciful long term dream of a fully electrified intercity network so that intercity trains could run across the city in the interconnector and out to the airport. Very unlikely to happen in any of other life times.

Where did you get that idea from? The interconnector was for DARTs (or rather new EMU stock compatible with the DART) to run across the city and for Metro North to go to the airport.

Any intercity electrification would most likely be at much higher voltage a.c. rather than the 1500V d.c. DART system.

cgcsb

bk wrote: »

A 25% decline in passenger numbers from 10 years ago is very concerning.

Specially when you consider that terrorism up North was a much bigger concern back then, travelling to the North should be much higher today then it was 10 years ago.

I'd love to see figures of modal share percentages on the route today, versus 10 years ago. I'm guessing the situation would look much worse.

I expect the Cork route will end up looking the same, with similar upgrade costs needed in order to keep it competitive.

The Cork Route is improving, the Belfast route has recently faced competition from Aircoach that offers a direct Dublin Belfast service for £8/€10

IÉ needs to bring journey times down to 1h50 asap.

cgcsb

Kumsheen wrote: »

I think the motorway is the biggest factor in the decline, it's just a doddle to drive to Belfast these days and not tiring at all. You can easily drive and still be fresh for whatever business you have to do, that is the key factor.

I can't see an upgrade in speed making much of a difference, the cities are just too close together and a large chunk of the trip is through the congested north Dublin commuter line.

I think IR should focus on this more lucrative commuter business and try and make improvements to keep it competitive with the improving alternatives available.

improvements to the state of track north of the border need to be made. Following on from that a journey time of 1h50 can easily beat bus operators. I wonder have NIR ever considered bypassing Portadown with a new stretch of track to the East, it would provide a more geographically direct route, and improve times.

Richard Logue

cgcsb wrote: »

improvements to the state of track north of the border need to be made. Following on from that a journey time of 1h50 can easily beat bus operators. I wonder have NIR ever considered bypassing Portadown with a new stretch of track to the East, it would provide a more geographically direct route, and improve times.

The onus is definitely on NIR to upgrade the track on their side. The train travels at a good speed north of Malahide and south of Dundalk, and slows down noticeably north of the border.

dowlingm

Running intercity trains through the interconnector would be no bother. Just flash some cash to Bombardier for some of the 100mph AGC series DEMUs they sold to the French. If 25kV was too far in the future the B81500 would do, if not the B82500 would.

But IE bought 22000s instead.

dowlingm

Richard Logue wrote: »

The onus is definitely on NIR to upgrade the track on their side. The train travels at a good speed north of Malahide and south of Dundalk, and slows down noticeably north of the border.

Assembly's only giving out enough money to do one thing at the time. At the moment it's the Derry line. To be fair they have spent a fair bit recently on Adelaide Depot and the C4Ks.

Losty Dublin

dowlingm wrote: »

Running intercity trains through the interconnector would be no bother. Just flash some cash to Bombardier for some of the 100mph AGC series DEMUs they sold to the French. If 25kV was too far in the future the B81500 would do, if not the B82500 would.

But IE bought 22000s instead.

They bought diesel because buying electric stock means electrifying every line in Ireland and massive costs.

Ernest

Con Logue wrote: »

And presumably discouraged you from using the bus as well as there is no cheaper all day parking than that at Heuston or Connolly.

My usual thing is to park at Heuston and get the tram over if I'm going for the 0735 for tutorials in Belfast.

I was complaining of there being a shortage of parking spaces at Connolly - not the cost of parking there.
Perhaps the relatively low cost of this parking is encouraging non-passengers to use the Connolly station car park as an alternative to the the commercial off-street car parks.

dowlingm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

They bought diesel because buying electric stock means electrifying every line in Ireland and massive costs.

They didn't have to buy all 22s though Losty. Saying every line in Ireland would have to be electrified is a massive oversimplification. Basically IE bought a square peg and rammed it into every shaped hole they could find. For the square holes it's great.

Con Logue

Ernest wrote: »

I was complaining of there being a shortage of parking spaces at Connolly - not the cost of parking there.
Perhaps the relatively low cost of this parking is encouraging non-passengers to use the Connolly station car park as an alternative to the the commercial off-street car parks.

Yes, I know what you were saying. No need to bold your points as I'm familiar with the situation at Connolly. Was merely pointing out Heuston as a possible alternative to park at as cheaply all day.

Captain Chaos

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They need to relay most of the line to get running speeds over 90mph for any sort of large sections. Then you have pathing issues with local services north and south of the boarder.
The current rolling stock could improve times if the track was in better condition or a higher standard and better timetabling of local trains.

There are 25mph speed restrictions around Clongriffin because of a passing loop built 2 years ago and has yet to be commissioned because it would require the line to be closed for a weekend.

At Howth Junction there is a speed restriction there because the points are in a bad way and it will cost alot to replace the junction and closing the line for a week.

They are just an example of the line condition 5 miles from Connolly.

Yes, and that does not mean you have to electrify. It is an option, and an expensive one. It is a racing certainty that if you added in electrification to the complex project already involved it would end up significantly increasing the cost - with negligible additional benefit.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

IÉ needs to bring journey times down to 1h50 asap.

That requires an average journey speed (including time stopped at platforms) of almost 145 km/h. That's 90 m.p.h. in old money. Not gonna happen.

comradestalin

There were Belfast-Dublin services timetabled for 1hr55 in the early 2000s immediately after the Central->Central Junction section in Belfast was relaid. It might have omitted one or two stops. I seem to recall a couple of services that only stopped at Lisburn and Portadown.

Since then things have gone downhill, we now seem to be a full 20 minutes slower.

comradestalin

Hmm, I notice on another thread the route length is quoted as 112.5 miles. To cover that in two hours (as opposed to the current 2h15) you need to be doing an average of 60mph plus change surely ?

Waaaaay back in the 1990s when the big cross border upgrade was in progress they talked about 90mph running throughout and the eventual delivery of a 1h30 service.

Judgement Day

The new improved Belfast service was first trumpeted way back in the 1980s!!!

Irish Times Editorial here from 14/1/1980



and below a miniscule piece from the launch of the new, improved service - nice consistent coverage from the 'paper of record'. :rolleyes:

comradestalin

Thank you for posting that up - I didn't know this fantasy talk stretched back that far!