Dogs fines to rise. €100 with new fixed penalty catorgies.

time lord

Got notification today for new amendments to Control of Dogs Act. Starting the 1/6/13. Anyone got full list of changes. Didn't get chance to read email as it was large and I had two minutes only at it. Did notice muzzling, on lead mentioned and price hike for not having licence.
I believe it's signed and 'going live' from 1st June.

ABajaninCork

Link?

DBB

I had a brief search for info on this but didn't find it (it was a brief search!), but as if has been signed in recently, I'd imagine there'll be a press release for public consumption pretty soon.
No harm if the increased fine works as a deterrent, but as always, enforcement will be key.

Rigsby

Hope they do something about enforcing the law on picking up after your dog. I have been walking my dog twice daily in the same area for nine years. Never in that time have I encountered a litter warden. The situation in my area has got worse in recent times.

I always pick up after my dog (if there is another dog's dirt near where she goes, I will pick that up too) and it is very frustrating to be wrongly reprimanded by people assuming that the dog dirt outside their gate belongs to my dog.

Recently my dog did do her business outside some one's gate as they were coming out. I quickly took out the poo bag and cleaned up to the best of my ability. There was a very small smudge of dirt that I could not remove. This person proceeded to lambaste me and told me to get some disinfectant and finish the job. I did not want to get into a row, told him I did my best and kept walking, while contemplating the unfairness of it all.


Sorry for the slightly off topic rant.

BillyMitchel

Hopefully this includes control of dogs and morons with no control over their hounds will be fined too.

There is no way any new dog laws will be enforced.

tk123

The problem imo with poo fines is that the people who let their dog poo (well in our area anyays) walk either very early or later in the evenings when there's no warden or onlookers about or their out walking/running and leaving the dog to do their own thing. They should put a fine on the scale for poo bags thrown on the ground too imo - this infuriates me!!!! Our park isn't that big so you're only ever 5 mins from a bin yet people throw their clear untied sandwich bags with poo in them on the ground. The wardens in our park have a giant barrell for poo now too so even if the bins are full and the warden's yard is closed you can still put you hand thru the railings and drop the bag in.

afterglow

tk123 wrote: »

The problem imo with poo fines is that the people who let their dog poo (well in our area anyays) walk either very early or later in the evenings when there's no warden or onlookers about or their out walking/running and leaving the dog to do their own thing. They should put a fine on the scale for poo bags thrown on the ground too imo - this infuriates me!!!! Our park isn't that big so you're only ever 5 mins from a bin yet people throw their clear untied sandwich bags with poo in them on the ground. The wardens in our park have a giant barrell for poo now too so even if the bins are full and the warden's yard is closed you can still put you hand thru the railings and drop the bag in.

Hi all

In my opinion, anything that makes people pick up after their dogs would be welcome. It is infuriating, and has happened to me on a number of ocasions, where I have stepped in dog poop because of not being able to see it. You don't realise you've done it at all until you get into the house and realise it's on shoes then by the oder which is horrible. I think I would be even more angry about people picking up after their dogs now because I do it myself after my guide dog, and if I can manage to do it without sight then surely dog owners with sight can manage to bring a bag and pick up to save others the missfortune of stepping in their dogs mess.
I realise I am lucky that my dog will only poop at most twice a day, and in my apartment complex on a little peace of grass. If however my dog did go on the street for any reason I would of course pick up.
To the poster that rfered to getting an earful from that person while you were cleaning up after your dog, take no notice, people have no clue what they are talking about sometimes.
A tip for making poop easier to pick up is to try restricting the dogs diet to only dry food and try avoid giving scraps from the table and letting the dog pick up stuff from the street etc. not always possible, and I'm not the authority on dogs by any means, but just it might help make picking up a little easier which is always welcome IMO.
Thanks

fatmammycat

afterglow wrote: »

Hi all

In my opinion, anything that makes people pick up after their dogs would be welcome. It is infuriating, and has happened to me on a number of ocasions, where I have stepped in dog poop because of not being able to see it. You don't realise you've done it at all until you get into the house and realise it's on shoes then by the oder which is horrible. I think I would be even more angry about people picking up after their dogs now because I do it myself after my guide dog, and if I can manage to do it without sight then surely dog owners with sight can manage to bring a bag and pick up to save others the missfortune of stepping in their dogs mess.
I realise I am lucky that my dog will only poop at most twice a day, and in my apartment complex on a little peace of grass. If however my dog did go on the street for any reason I would of course pick up.
To the poster that rfered to getting an earful from that person while you were cleaning up after your dog, take no notice, people have no clue what they are talking about sometimes.
A tip for making poop easier to pick up is to try restricting the dogs diet to only dry food and try avoid giving scraps from the table and letting the dog pick up stuff from the street etc. not always possible, and I'm not the authority on dogs by any means, but just it might help make picking up a little easier which is always welcome IMO.
Thanks

When my dog ate dry food his poos where disgusting and frequent. On a raw food diet, however, they're small, dry and once a day.

afterglow

fatmammycat wrote: »

When my dog ate dry food his poos where disgusting and frequent. On a raw food diet, however, they're small, dry and once a day.

Hi. What do you mean by a raw food diet? My dog is on royal canine adult food and they are just dry little nuggets

BillyMitchel

afterglow wrote: »

Hi. What do you mean by a raw food diet? My dog is on royal canine adult food and they are just dry little nuggets

Have to agree with with this. People can say what they want about RC but one thing is certain, his poo is 100%. If there's such a thing!

fatmammycat

afterglow wrote: »

Hi. What do you mean by a raw food diet? My dog is on royal canine adult food and they are just dry little nuggets

Raw food- raw chicken/beef/fish/organs/eggs, no commercial dog food at all. I had my fellow on RC GSD food and it ran right through him. Now he poops once a day, firm stools and pretty much odourless in comparison with before.

tk123

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Have to agree with with this. People can say what they want about RC but one thing is certain, his poo is 100%. If there's such a thing!

Funny I bagged a poo for somebody the other day (they were sitting down after been floored by 2 pups :pac:) anyhoos the pup is guide dog so fed RC - OMG it was terrible lol - sticky and smelly and looked like a joke shop poo! Brought me back to when my guy was on RC and his would be like that every other day - goes to show one dogs meat is another dogs poison lol!

paultf

time lord wrote: »

Got notification today for new amendments to Control of Dogs Act. Starting the 1/6/13. Anyone got full list of changes. Didn't get chance to read email as it was large and I had two minutes only at it. Did notice muzzling, on lead mentioned and price hike for not having licence.
I believe it's signed and 'going live' from 1st June.

I don't think this is going to make a difference if they are not enforcing it properly.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been mocked or laughed at for picking up dog poo. Ages range from young children to teenagers to adults. A while ago I remember a young child in my estate came over to pet my dog. He went for a poo so I proceeded to pick it up, the child said: "Ooooohhh, what are you doing that for?" His Mum was near him and told him it was the right thing to do.

The dog warden and his team blitzed my estate a few weeks ago. First time in 12 years. Told me I hadn't paid my dog license as I wasn't on the system. I produced 4 dog licenses - all in date. I pay online but supposedly it is not co-ordinated yet with the An Post system. So if there is a mis-spelling of a name everything is out of synch. He said the county had the lowest return in the country at 15%. In my estate he said not many people had licences. I asked would they be getting a fine - no he said we are giving them a second chance. I don't understand that myself - I mean I have been paying a license every year since I got my first dog 10 years ago. Maybe I shouldn't have bothered if everyone else is a getting a second chance - no one told me about that before. (I think the blitz was to do with the fact the county manager was moving to a new job.)

I think the only way it is going to change is by getting into the classrooms and educating the children about dog ownership. Hopefully then this information can be filtered back up to the adults in the family. I hope it doesn't but down the line if some young child picks up a disease from handling dog poo....

BillyMitchel

tk123 wrote: »

Funny I bagged a poo for somebody the other day (they were sitting down after been floored by 2 pups :pac:) anyhoos the pup is guide dog so fed RC - OMG it was terrible lol - sticky and smelly and looked like a joke shop poo! Brought me back to when my guy was on RC and his would be like that every other day - goes to show one dogs meat is another dogs poison lol!

My dog is not even 1 and 100lb+ and RC has been a god sent for poo's! One wk he wasn't fed it and it was a nightmare picking it up. Now his poo's are like mountains and if they were all soft and mushy I don't know what I'd do!!

time lord

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS.
S.I. No. of 2013
————————
CONTROL OF DOGS (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS, 2013



Alt/Section 27(1)(f)




Allowing a dog that is required to be leashed in a public place to be unleashed in a public place, contrary to article 5 of the Control of Dogs Regulations, 1998


Alt/Section 27(1)(f)


Allowing a dog that is required to be led in a public place by a person over the age of sixteen years who is capable of controlling the dog to be otherwise led in a public place, contrary to article 5 of the Control of Dogs Regulations, 1998

Alt/Section 27(1)(f)



Allowing a dog that is required to be muzzled in a public place to be unmuzzled in a public place, contrary to article 5 of the Control of Dogs Regulations, 1998


Alt/Section 27(1)(f)

These are the new ' on the spots' I believe.

Kukey

A man I meet in the park has a Malinois and he was told to put a muzzle on his dog or he will be fined or dog will be seized.They must be really clamping down now as I have seen the Warden around a lot lately in our area.

BillyMitchel

time lord wrote: »

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS.
S.I. No. of 2013
————————
CONTROL OF DOGS (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS, 2013



Alt/Section 27(1)(f)




Allowing a dog that is required to be leashed in a public place to be unleashed in a public place, contrary to article 5 of the Control of Dogs Regulations, 1998


Alt/Section 27(1)(f)


Allowing a dog that is required to be led in a public place by a person over the age of sixteen years who is capable of controlling the dog to be otherwise led in a public place, contrary to article 5 of the Control of Dogs Regulations, 1998

Alt/Section 27(1)(f)



Allowing a dog that is required to be muzzled in a public place to be unmuzzled in a public place, contrary to article 5 of the Control of Dogs Regulations, 1998


Alt/Section 27(1)(f)

These are the new ' on the spots' I believe.

So am I right in saying its just an updated version of laws regarding RB?

What happens if a dog warden gets the breed wrong and they start handing out fines to innocent people? Appeal?

Then again it's rarely enforced in the first place.

Kukey

I would say that if the owner was to appeal they would have to have proof that the dog is not RB,and would have to get DNA done.

andreac

Kukey wrote: »

A man I meet in the park has a Malinois and he was told to put a muzzle on his dog or he will be fined or dog will be seized.They must be really clamping down now as I have seen the Warden around a lot lately in our area.

But Belgian shepherds aren't on the rb list so they don't need to be muzzled??

Kukey

They are a "type" of Shepherd so must be muzzled.He got in touch with Dublin Co Council and Dept of Environment and they both said the same thing to him.They are a "type" and must be muzzled in public.He now has a muzzle for his dog.

DBB

Kukey wrote: »

They are a "type" of Shepherd so must be muzzled.He got in touch with Dublin Co Council and Dept of Environment and they both said the same thing to him.They are a "type" and must be muzzled in public.He now has a muzzle for his dog.

He was misinformed. Utterly misinformed. There are no provisions in Irish law for "type"(there is under UK law). The Irish law is clear on this: if the dog is not on the list of 11, nor a mix or strain of these 11, then the RB legislation does not apply.
Once a breed is a breed, it is no longer a "strain". So, in the case of the Belgian Shepherd, it is neither a strain of the GSD (it predates the GSD), but it is a categorical breed, a breed which is not on the list of 11 in any shape or form.
Dublin Co.Co. do seem to be mixed up on this one, but other councils, my own included, most certainly are not. If I was given an on the spot fine for walking a Belgian Shepherd unmuzzled, I would look forward to my day in court.

DBB

BillyMitchel wrote: »

So am I right in saying its just an updated version of laws regarding RB?

What happens if a dog warden gets the breed wrong and they start handing out fines to innocent people? Appeal?

Then again it's rarely enforced in the first place.

It's simply making the existing laws relating to RBs subject to a fixed penalty notice (on the spot fine... Which have not literally to be paid on the spot!). No change to the actual laws though.
There is always leave to either accept a fixed penalty notice, or not accept it and allow it to go to court, the appeal of the fine being that you avoid a potentially bigger fine, legal fees, and a possible conviction or record. However, if the warden gets it wrong with your breed, choosing the court option gives the owner the opportunity to contest the warden's decision. In reality, there's always a chance the warden will re-think his/her decision in the pre-court process of gathering evidence, solicitor's letters etc.

The Bishop Basher

What is the license for ? Are there any benefits to paying it ? Do you need a licence for a cat ? Just wondering as I've never got one nor given any thought to getting one to be honest.

endacl

Are catorgies one of those newfangled hybrids? A labradoodle type yoke? A cross between a cat and a corgi maybe?

time lord

BillyMitchel wrote: »

So am I right in saying its just an updated version of laws regarding RB?
No because it alters the fine amount for offences unrelated to RB's

What happens if a dog warden gets the breed wrong and they start handing out fines to innocent people? Appeal?
If a warden, Garda or appointed person is wrong the fixed penalty notice/on the spot fine to the alleged offender has several weeks to be paid and this is an opportunity to appeal the fine.

Then again it's rarely enforced in the first place.

Differs from area to area I'd guess but as with a large number of laws in Éire they get a similar level of enforcement I.m.o.
(Crap at using quotes my bad)

DBB

Swanner wrote: »

What is the license for ? Are there any benefits to paying it ? Do you need a licence for a cat ? Just wondering as I've never got one nor given any thought to getting one to be honest.

The license fees fund the county pound, which is responsible for picking up stray dogs and taking surrendered dogs (not a nice things to have to do, but an important service all the same), and enforcing the dog control legislationvia the dog wardens. Cats don't need a license, but then, they've no legal back-up when they're found straying either.

Kukey

DBB wrote: »

He was misinformed. Utterly misinformed. There are no provisions in Irish law for "type"(there is under UK law). The Irish law is clear on this: if the dog is not on the list of 11, nor a mix or strain of these 11, then the RB legislation does not apply.
Once a breed is a breed, it is no longer a "strain". So, in the case of the Belgian Shepherd, it is neither a strain of the GSD (it predates the GSD), but it is a categorical breed, a breed which is not on the list of 11 in any shape or form.
Dublin Co.Co. do seem to be mixed up on this one, but other councils, my own included, most certainly are not. If I was given an on the spot fine for walking a Belgian Shepherd unmuzzled, I would look forward to my day in court.

The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998, 5.(1) refers to the list of dogs, while it does not mention Belgian Shepherds it does refer to German Shepherds and refers "to every other strain or cross of every breed or type of dog described in this article"  the important word here is type, a Belgian Shepherd is a type of Shepherd and must be muzzled in a public place.

The above is what the owner was told and resulted in him buying a muzzle for his dog.Surely all the Councils should be all going by the same rules??

The Bishop Basher

DBB wrote: »

The license fees fund the county pound, which is responsible for picking up stray dogs and taking surrendered dogs (not a nice things to have to do, but an important service all the same), and enforcing the dog control legislationvia the dog wardens. Cats don't need a license, but then, they've no legal back-up when they're found straying either.

Thanks for that. Is the money genuinely ring fenced for this ? If so I would consider getting one. If not I would rather donate directly to the county pound.

ISDW

Kukey wrote: »

The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998, 5.(1) refers to the list of dogs, while it does not mention Belgian Shepherds it does refer to German Shepherds and refers "to every other strain or cross of every breed or type of dog described in this article"  the important word here is type, a Belgian Shepherd is a type of Shepherd and must be muzzled in a public place.

The above is what the owner was told and resulted in him buying a muzzle for his dog.Surely all the Councils should be all going by the same rules??

An Australian Shepherd is a type of Shepherd, but has absolutely no links to a GSD, other than that they are both dogs, so a warden wouldn't even look at it. The Belgian Shepherd is a completely separate breed as well, just because a dog has the word Shepherd in its name does not make it a type or strain of another breed.

DBB

Most councils are going by the rules. Dublin Co. Co. are not. The law specifically names the German Shepherd Dog. It does not mention just "Shepherds", so therefore an owner of an unmuzzled anything-other-than-a-German-shepherd-or-cross-thereof is not subject to this law. The law only pertains to owners of GSDs, or crosses thereof. If the Dublin Co. Co. version of the legislation was applied as they claim, then owners of all dogs with the word "shepherd" in the name would have to be muzzled!
It is widely recognised amongst other county councils in Ireland that Dublin Co. Co. are not acting lawfully in applying this strange, and wrong interpretation of the law. It is interesting that (to the best of my knowledge), they've never tested their interesting theory in court. I wonder why?! I have written to ask them to clarify their stance, more than once, and am still awaiting a reply!
My local county vet has taken legal advice on the issue, and been categorically told that owners of Belgian Shepherds cannot be prosecuted under the RB laws. I'm reliably informed that he's not alone.

DBB

Also kukey, for your friend's info, the reference to "type" of dog refers specifically to the bandog, one of the 11 breeds (the bandog is not a breed, but a type... And for my post stating the Irish law does not refer to "type", I apologise! In a senior moment, I forgot that we have one exception! The bandog!) "Type" in the law is not in reference to any other of the 11 on the list.