Potentially big issue with Gadget Insurance..

ebixa82

Hi,
I bought an iPhone 5 from O2 a few months back. Long story short, it's been stolen.

I've had gadget insurance for the last 17 months. I renewed it in Jan after 12 months.

Claim company called me today saying they would pay out the 300e it was insured for. I told them that it was valued at 700e. They said it's 300e on the policy. I nearly puked!

This is what happened...

I always add items online myself at their full value, always new items. In April gadget site was under construction so I had to phone them to add the iPhone.

After it was added I never received any paper documentation to show the addition. Also, since then, and still to this day, when I put in my username and password (which they supplied when policy was renewed) it brings up last years policy. I tried again just a few minutes ago and the same story!

SO the idiot in gadget I spoke to over the phone valued it at what I paid O2 for the phone (300e) and not what it costs to replace (700e).

I am furious. It was obviously their fault and because their is an error on their site preventing me from viewing my policy (just last years policy) I had no way of discovering the fault and rectifying it!

Everyone knows an iPhone 5 32GB is worth more than 300e FFS!

Would anybody know if I have a decent case to get a full claim from them?
I have never claimed for a lost/stolen phone before.

Thanks and sorry for the long post

wmpdd3

I haven't claimed either but you are dealing with insurance, so I would suggest that you write to them mentioning 'formal complaint' in the letter.

Tell them that it was their error and you want the policy adjusted to €700. Tell them that you will proceeding to the financial ombudsman if they cannot rectify the situation to you satisfaction.

I hope this type of insurance covers the price of replacing the phone and not the price that yo paid.

oldyouth

The call should have been recorded. Ask for the phone conversation to be examined and request a copy. That's the only way to verify what was discussed.

ebixa82

oldyouth wrote: »

The call should have been recorded. Ask for the phone conversation to be examined and request a copy. That's the only way to verify what was discussed.

A woman from gadget is checking the calls but I've heard nothing back.

I'm pretty confident I would not have been thick enough to say the value was 300e.

However, on the off chance that I did (perhaps misheard the question) is there no case for human error? They would know well the phone is worth more than 300e. As I said every other item on the policy (which I added online) is listed at actual value.

Also the fact that:

1) they never sent me out any documentation to show the added phone

2) when I log in on their site it only shows my expired policy from 2012 and so no record of any iPhone 5 (checked again this morning and still the case)

means I had no way of discovering and rectifying the error.

oldyouth

If you misheard the question and stated €300 as the amount you wanted to insure for, then I don't see how you would have a case. The onus is on you to declare the value to be insured. Insurers are not valuers, though I would agree that insurers in this specific field should have an idea of the value of similar items.

ebixa82

oldyouth wrote: »

If you misheard the question and stated €300 as the amount you wanted to insure for, then I don't see how you would have a case. The onus is on you to declare the value to be insured. Insurers are not valuers, though I would agree that insurers in this specific field should have an idea of the value of similar items.

It could only have happened if I misheard her. I guess the tapes will reveal what was said.

But what about the fact they didn't send any documentation and they only allowed access to an expired policy? Is that not negligence on their part?

ebixa82

They have said they went through the phone records and have no record of me calling to add the iPhone. They also failed to mention if it was added online (it wasn't as their site was under construction).

So essentially they have record whatsoever which sounds ridiculous.

The girl has said the matter has been sent to the claims dept who will have the final say, however they already contacted me saying that all they can pay out is 312e and to take it up with Gadget.

Legally what could I do here?

hfallada

Do you have you have a bill pay phone? If your o2 I know you can download your bill in a spread sheet and search for the call to prove you called them. Have you checked the policy they issued you with when you renewed? I would email them playing dumb and saying what happened. People tend to change their tone very quickly when something is in writing.

Plus I looked their site now and when you click the gadget insurance extra for €97 for the year which includes theft and go to pay they switch it to the essential cover which doesnt include theft which is why most people have insurance in Dublin anyway

ebixa82

hfallada wrote: »

Do you have you have a bill pay phone? If your o2 I know you can download your bill in a spread sheet and search for the call to prove you called them. Have you checked the policy they issued you with when you renewed? I would email them playing dumb and saying what happened. People tend to change their tone very quickly when something is in writing.

Plus I looked their site now and when you click the gadget insurance extra for €97 for the year which includes theft and go to pay they switch it to the essential cover which doesnt include theft which is why most people have insurance in Dublin anyway

Hi. I have O2 bill pay so will search.

My main issue, is that when I login online it brings up my expired policy from last year not my current one. Hence it was impossible to detect the error.

oldyouth

Just to be clear, are the following points correct?

1) The company DO record calls, but don't have a record of the call you made to add on the new phone
2) They DO have your new phone on cover, albeit at a low value
3) Your log on details only have your old phone.

If this is correct, then I think you have a case against them. If it is company policy to record calls, they should be able to find your one. By offering a settlement, they are acknowledging that you contacted them to insure the new phone. No paperwork, no recorded call, no updated computer records leaves them exposed in my opinion.

ebixa82

oldyouth wrote: »

Just to be clear, are the following points correct?

1) The company DO record calls, but don't have a record of the call you made to add on the new phone
YES

2) They DO have your new phone on cover, albeit at a low value
YES

3) Your log on details only have your old phone.
YES

If this is correct, then I think you have a case against them. If it is company policy to record calls, they should be able to find your one. By offering a settlement, they are acknowledging that you contacted them to insure the new phone. No paperwork, no recorded call, no updated computer records leaves them exposed in my opinion.

Thanks to hfallada's post above I went through m O2 bill and found a call made to them on the exact date the phone was added. However, she e-mailed me saying they've gone through all calls and nothing was found.

The exact date and time put me at work on the day and I remember making the call for sure now.

I wonder are they pretending not to have found it? As I told them it's simple negligence if they are unable to provide any record (phone or e-mail) of the phone being added.

Surely they should automatically send you an e-mail with an updated policy?

If I was to make a case against them who do I contact?

THANK YOU

ebixa82

oldyouth wrote: »

no recorded call, no updated computer records leaves them exposed in my opinion.

Sorry, one thing. The policy was updated with phone valued at 312e however this policy was never made available to me.

The first time I saw it was on Monday when the person in the claims dept sent me a copy.

bee06

Hi ebixa82,

Ithe insurance company gadgetinsurance.ie or a gadget insurance company. I ask because as far as I can see the current gadgetinsurance.ie terms and conditions cover the replacement of your phone for one of similar age and condition not money for the value of the phone.

That would be standard pratice for most gadget insurance companies to avoid encouraging fraud cases where a customer buys a phone for €300 (or gets one for free even), insures it for €700 then the phone is "stolen" and the customer is €400 better off.

ebixa82

bee06 wrote: »

Hi ebixa82,

Ithe insurance company gadgetinsurance.ie or a gadget insurance company. I ask because as far as I can see the current gadgetinsurance.ie terms and conditions cover the replacement of your phone for one of similar age and condition not money for the value of the phone.

That would be standard pratice for most gadget insurance companies to avoid encouraging fraud cases where a customer buys a phone for €300 (or gets one for free even), insures it for €700 then the phone is "stolen" and the customer is €400 better off.

Hi. I'm with gadget insurance.

What you say makes total sense. So why don't they just provide me with a new iPhone?

Where did you read that? Thanks

stimpson

I had similar issues with Vodafone and "We checked your call and it doesn't say what you think it says".

Do a Data Protection request, giving them the date of the call. When I did this with Vodafone, I never got a copy of the call, but they sorted the issue fairly quickly as I'm sure the call would have proved them in the wrong and possibly leave them open to prosecution for fraud.

Lots of info up here: http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=14

bee06

On the gadget insurance website on the top right hand corner there is a link to policy documents and you'll get a PDF of the current terms and conditions. There is a possibility that your terms and conditions are different and do provide for cash settlement so you should check those and see what they say.

I have a bit of experience with Supercover who administer the claims and they are not the best especially when it comes to complaints. It wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that they had an iPhone 5 shortage at the moment and they were chancing their arm with a cash settlement.

Social media tends to be a powerful thing when it comes to companies like this so try complaining on their twitter page, facebook etc. The gadget insurance marketing team won't appreciate the negative feedback about their administrators.

ebixa82

stimpson wrote: »

I had similar issues with Vodafone and "We checked your call and it doesn't say what you think it says".

Do a Data Protection request, giving them the date of the call. When I did this with Vodafone, I never got a copy of the call, but they sorted the issue fairly quickly as I'm sure the call would have proved them in the wrong and possibly leave them open to prosecution for fraud.

Lots of info up here: http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=14

Wow, fair play. Thanks for that.

ebixa82

I stated in the OP that I could only access my expired policy online, not my current one and so had no way of knowing of undervaluation (nothing was posted out either).

So on Monday I recorded a video on my iPhone of me attempting to do so (and then flicked to BBC website to show date).

They obviously got their IT dept. onto it as only yesterday evening for the first time was my current policy available online.

I'm sure she will attempt to say there was never an issue, just as she said no phone call was made (which I also now have record of from my phone bill).

ScottStorm

Keep complaining, I worked in an insurance company before, handled initial complaints over the phone and searched for calls etc. I have seen management claim a call couldn't be found as they didn't want to spend what can be several hours looking for it and also deny its existence if the call handler f##ked up. Also if the complaint came back more than twice I was routinely overruled (even when in the right) and the complainant got what they wanted. With your record of the call made and duration unless they produce the call to say otherwise I believe they will fold eventually but in the current climate you may have to stick at them a while longer.

ebixa82

ScottStorm wrote: »

Keep complaining, I worked in an insurance company before, handled initial complaints over the phone and searched for calls etc. I have seen management claim a call couldn't be found as they didn't want to spend what can be several hours looking for it and also deny its existence if the call handler f##ked up. Also if the complaint came back more than twice I was routinely overruled (even when in the right) and the complainant got what they wanted. With your record of the call made and duration unless they produce the call to say otherwise I believe they will fold eventually but in the current climate you may have to stick at them a while longer.

Thanks for that, always good to know how things operate on the inside.

Insurance companies really are dodgy, will do anything to not pay out.

ebixa82

I told them when exactly the call was made and she found it.

In the call, she asked me what it was valued and what it cost and I said 312e to both. A silly mistake by me.

So I made a mistake but two issues remain:

1) I never received any renewed policy, either by e-mail or written documentation, to show a change to my insurance policy.

2) An error on their site meant I was unable to access my current policy, just an expired one. This was the case up until only 2 days ago.

For both these reasons I was never given the opportunity to discover the undervaluation, and hence I had no opportunity to rectify it.

For these two reason, do you think I would have a case to appeal their decision and be compensated for the actual value of my phone?

THANKS

ScottStorm

ebixa82 wrote: »

I told them when exactly the call was made and she found it.

In the call, she asked me what it was valued and what it cost and I said 312e to both. A silly mistake by me.

So I made a mistake but two issues remain:

1) I never received any renewed policy, either by e-mail or written documentation, to show a change to my insurance policy.

2) An error on their site meant I was unable to access my policy.

For both these reasons I was never given the opportunity to discover the undervaluation, and hence I had no opportunity to rectify it.

For these two reason, do you think I would have a case to appeal their decision and be compensated for the actual value of my phone?

In my opinion you will probably have to take the initial offer, but as I previously stated if you keep pestering them they may come back with another final offer just to get rid of you, however times have changed so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Also have you considered getting the Nexus 4? if you can get your hands on one It would be closer to your €300 budget and a better phone.

ebixa82

ScottStorm wrote: »

In my opinion you will probably have to take the initial offer, but as I previously stated if you keep pestering them they may come back with another final offer just to get rid of you, however times have changed so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Also have you considered getting the Nexus 4? if you can get your hands on one It would be closer to your €300 budget and a better phone.

Do the two points I make not show serious flaws in the service they provide that may warrant a possible outcome in my favour?

Re: The Nexus, I still have an iPhone 4 which I gave to someone, I'll just take it back!

ScottStorm

ebixa82 wrote: »

Do the two points I make not show serious flaws in the service they provide that may warrant a possible outcome in my favour?

Re: The Nexus, I still have an iPhone 4 which I gave to someone, I'll just take it back!

I would say no chance, but then I was regularly overruled, no harm in trying.

ebixa82

Hi,
Just a quick update.

I wrote to Gadget requesting a "final response" letter two weeks ago, as recommmended to do so by the Financial Ombudsman.

They said the were prepared to offer me an additional ex gratia payment of 300e as they were negligent in not enabling me view my policy online.

Very happy with that.

So don't be afraid to fight your corner with these cowboys!

wmpdd3

The request of a final to response seems to do the trick, glad to hear you got sorted.